Torture Debate Ensures That Cheney Will Continue To Define GOP
The other day I noted here that the economic crisis, by forcing a debate over who’s to blame for the whole mess, ensured that George W. Bush would continue to define the GOP in the public mind at a time when the party was hoping to rise from the wreckage of his personal unpopularity.
The torture debate has jump-started this dynamic again, but this time it involves an even less popular figure than Bush: Dick Cheney.
Just consider the optics of this. Even Republicans who backed Bush’s torture program have to be in total despair about the fact that Cheney has thrust himself into this debate in such a high-profile way. His growling visage is all over the cable nets, evoking some of the ugliest imagery of the Bush presidency: Secret prisons, faceless bureaucrats toiling in darkness to concoct legal justifications for torture, the previous administration’s brash unilateralism and swaggering defiance of international treaties.
Such memories are the last thing current Republicans need to be associated with at a time when the public is embracing Obama’s brand of internationalism as necessary to heal the damage the Bushies did to America’s global image.
To be sure, there are plenty of potential political pitfalls for Obama here. Cheney and company are working to shift the debate onto the narrow question of whether torture “works,” and as Ben Smith notes, this is probably not an argument Obama wants to have right now.
Nonetheless, Cheney’s high-profile entry into the debate is a net win for Obama and Dems. It makes this whole fight is about Bush’s — or, worse, Cheney’s — legacy, at a time when Republicans want it to be about the current Commander in Chief and whether he has what it takes to keep us safe.
The homepage of this blog is here. RSS feed here. Twitter feed here. Email me here.
Surely the rapidly growing debate would have been a predicted consequence of the memo releases.
Does it seem to anyone else that the present situation – clearly highly politicized – presents and opening for the administration to place the matter into the hands of an independent prosecutor?
Say it with me Dems, “Pro Torture”. We should get tired of hearing Democratic members of congress saying that about their GOP colleagues.
“clearly highly politicized – presents and opening for the administration to place the matter into the hands of an independent prosecutor?”
If there is one thing I think I know about Obama it is that he doesn’t respond to pressure from anywhere and he doesn’t do things for no reason at all.
Now he has political cover. The debate has shifted over to Cheney and the GOP.
By the way, Greg, it isn’t just Cheney – it’s Cheney/Limbaugh – they’re interchangeable.
Just to be clear – I’m absolutely against torture, but I can see the major problems ahead if prosecutions start. I would have liked to have waited awhile for this because I hate to think it’s going to tie up Congress even worse than it is – (Al, we need ya!) when we’re trying to re-do the entire country. But Obama released those memos and there’s no way he didn’t consider the consequences – he always considers the consequences.
I do believe that what the CIA and the Bush Administration did was illegal and immoral. But I will not stand for it being made into more than it was – it was not genocide. We are not Hitler’s Germany.
actually i disagree with Smith—let the republicans embrace an argument that they think torture works, that we should torture. at last the republicans can have that corner and own up to it. Obama should not be afraid of that argument because he can simply say—we do not torture.
one more thing–as the McClatchy story this morning establishes torture was used to get the information Cheney wanted and believed to be true. Now torture will be inevitably wrapped up with the Iraq war *not* 9/11. and this will be a clear loser for them.
Greg, I think you’re right that having Cheney front and center does some good things. I just checked back on polling. Here are three sets of figures on his outgoing approval ratings. 12-08: 21% positive from NBC/WSJ; 1-09: CNN/Opinion Research–29%; 1-09: CBS/NYT–13%.
Good to see you Plum Line Peeps!!! ~ I have been out of touch for a few days with other obligations, but am glad to be back in touch…here is what I had to say on Ben Smiths blog regarding Cheney and torture…I think it applies to this post somewhat…
Bring It! The more Cheney the better for Dems…it is almost laughable to see right-wingers lathering themselves up into an admiration frenzy for Cheney. Look, the left despises Cheney, no surprise there…but here is the thing that those on the right just can’t seem to comprehend…the moderates/independants cannot stand what Dick Cheney did to this Country and the more Dick Cheney is out there, the more it reminds us (the moderates, that is) how happy we are that Bush/Cheney/Republicans are out of control. People can argue all they want about whether or not torture “works” (by the way, Mr. “our administration was successful” Cheney, where’s Osama Bin Laden?), it does not matter if it “works”, our Country does NOT engage in torture. Period, end of story, it is against the law. The United States (and European allies) prosecuted the Japanese after World War II for waterboarding our Soldiers and now we are trying to justify using waterboarding ourselves, when we prosecuted another Country’s military for doing the same thing 50+ years ago – Hypocrisy Much???? The argument is ridiculous and Cheney defending it is even more ridiculous – but bring him on out because nothing makes the Democrats look more reasonable and intelligent to the majority of Americans than a good cycle of Cheney/Rove.
ifo said: “Now torture will be inevitably wrapped up with the Iraq war *not* 9/11″
Bright observation.
Cheney wants to stay front and center so then he can cry “political retribution” should any indictments ever come down.
CNN has a article up about Cheney now attacking Obama’s economic policies. Cheney seems to be stepping up to fill the leadership void, I wonder how much the Republicans like with a person with sub 20% approval ratings as their front man.
There’s another aspect here too. As Cheney, Rove and Gingrich move up in profile, Limbaugh moves down. That may well be a desired effect.
thanks Bernie. I just find it interesting that all this is extremely wrapped up with Iraq while a lot of the Reps are making it a 9/11 issue which the McClathcy article proves it is not.
Say it with me Dems, “Pro Torture”.
Damn straight. If the GOP wants to become the “Party of Torture”, then the Dems should hang that around their necks.
And the DNC pounces
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asqJSAQyxro&feature=player_embedded
Lawerence O’Donnell has been a BEAST of late!
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udh7WaELsBA
O’Donnell is on fire and he has been on fire alot lately…LOVE it when he schools and also, happens to be right about this issue…
that O’Donnell clip is gold. but you know what is deeply sad? that he did something very simple–he questioned a vile and vapid assertion the way it should have been questioned.
Let’s be clear on one thing. As Greenwald so astutely pointed out yesterday, this has nothing to do with Obama. Obama didn’t release anything. Obama didn’t “leave the door open” to prosecutions. This is the Justice Department. We’ve been so blinded by Alberto Gonzalez carrying out Bush’s brand of law that we’ve forgotten that the DOJ is supposed to operate and be independent of the Executive. Holder released the memos, Holder will do what he wants (or he should!) regardless of what Obama thinks. Obama can give his recommendation but it means nothing. Obama could strongly discourage him from prosecuting but again, it means nothing.
The reason why you’ve seen Obama and the people that actually have to listen to him (Rahm, Axelrod, Gibbs, et al)do all this shuffling in the past week is to appear to be against prosecutions at first and then seem to “soften ever so slightly” but still be generally wary of them.
That way, when Holder throws the hammer down on everyone (which is what SHOULD happen if everything goes right) Obama won’t be sucked into this because he’ll be able to say “Well, look, as you saw I was against going this far, but it’s the Department of Justice’s decision.” The media will try to say “But Mr President, the Atty General is supposed to listen to you” and THEN Obama can fire back at them with a teaching moment for everyone, telling them “Actually, he’s not, he’s supposed to be independent of me.”
The guy’s an expert on the Constitution, he knows what he’s doing. But again, let’s give credit where credit’s due — DOJ and Holder. Trials should and will happen, and the way it’s gone down so far, Obama can stay out of it. I think this will be the last you hear him talk about it.
The Republicans are digging their own grave on this. Essentially they are presenting themselves as the Torture/Abu Ghraib party with as their chief spokesman Dick Cheney, one of the most distrusted men in the country. He will of course be ably assisted by those paragons of ethical behavior Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, and New Gingrich. Obama can sit above the fray, making it a DOJ matter, while more and more stuff implicating Rice, Tenet, and the whole crowd gradually seeps into the public consciousness and I’m sure there’s lots more. That Senate report yesterday was a stunner and when the DOJ report on the authors of these legal opinions comes out it will create a huge furore.
It is the Classic Obama ROPE-A-DOPE sting. He did it with the Clintons. He did it with McCain/Palin. He did it with Limbaugh. And now he is doing it, and I must say with great success, to the former Administration and the Republican party as a whole.
They the Republican party are so enraged that Obama is the President of the United States of America, that they can not see what is happening to them. They are increasingly seen as the Party that supports TORTURE!
The face of the Republicans is Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Newt Gingrich and that whole Jerry Springer side show Sara Palin. And everytime one of these clowns opens the mouths on TV about this subject they dig their legal graves just a bit deeper. Remember, everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
And Zarik is right. Obama is a CONSITUTIONAL Lawyer. He understands the Constitution as it was written and what it means.
The Bozo’s on the right, that are picking this fight in order to save themselves, have no idea what the Consitution says or means.
The lawyers of the Justice Department are America’s Lawyers! They exist for the people of America and are completely INDEPENDENT of the Administration. They are NOT the personal lawyers for the President or the Administartion. Something that was completely lost on the previous Administration. Obama understands this and is using it to his advantage. It is the DOJ that is doing this and not him.
And don’t think for a minute that when things get really hot for Cheney that he won’t throw Rice, Rove, Rumsfeld or even former President Bush under the bus. The man is insane.
The only thing good about the last 8 years was the Bush lived through it heathy as the president. God, can you even imagine the horror is Dick Cheney had become the president is something had happen?
Zarik’s post is terrific, a must read, but such a sad reminder of how far back we’ve slid as a country. We have to be reminded that a president does not have unitary control of the execution of justice. We do not know this implicitly any more.
As much as I hope everyone is right about what the embrace of torture can do to the Republican Party, let’s not forget that these people are very clever and can sell fear and resentment effortlessly. There is a willing audience for their message.
I do not think Cheney is insane, if only he were.
I am very concerned that we have defined decency down a significant notch or two or five. A vocal minority is now free to articulate support for torture and that support may well be taken seriously by enough otherwise sensible people to be electorally potent. Maybe its because I live in Texas, but hear the sabers rattling next door. I don’t think the rational side always prevails at the end of the day.