Pelosi’s Claims Getting Much More Media Scrutiny Than CIA’s Assertions
Whichever side of the torture debate you’re on, it’s a simple matter of fact that Nancy Pelosi’s claims about what she was told and when about torture are getting far more intense media scrutiny than the CIA’s claims are.
Simple fairness demands that both side’s claims get treated with a similar level of skepticism. And they’re not.
Multiple news accounts this morning report that Pelosi’s credibility is in question after yesterday’s press conference, in which she accused the CIA of lying about what they told members of Congress about the agency’s use of torture. This theme was sounded by MSNBC, WaPo’s Dan Balz, the New York Times write-up, and many others.
That’s as it should be. But I challenge you to find a news account that stated with equal prominence that the CIA’s credibility is also in question.
Let’s briefly recap. Three senior Democrats — Pelosi, Bob Graham, and Jay Rockefeller — have all publicly claimed that the CIA didn’t brief them about the use of torture in the manner the agency has claimed. Meanwhile, the CIA itself has conceded that its own accounting may not be accurate.
Yet key facts that cast doubt on the CIA’s claims have been buried or completely omitted from multiple news reports. The Times’s first mention of Graham’s claims came today, five days after he first made them, and they were buried in the 22nd paragraph of the paper’s write-up. Neither The Time nor The Post have even mentioned Rockefeller’s claims once. The networks have refused across the board to mention the CIA’s own unwillingness to vouch for the accuracy of its information.
There are notable exceptions. McClatchy’s Jonathan Landay, for instance, has talked up the importance of the CIA’s caveats. And to its credit, The Politico has shined a spotlight on the dissents of Graham and Rockefeller and on some of the contradictions in the GOP’s criticism of Pelosi.
This is not only about Pelosi. It is a dispute. One side is claiming one thing, and the other is claiming the opposite. Simple fairness demands that equal levels of skepticism are applied to people on both sides of this argument. And that isn’t happening. There’s no way around it.
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Ok, here’s what I think, bottom line: appoint a Special Prosecutor right this minute and get this whole thing out of the political arena. This should not be a political fight and that’s what the GOP has turned it into and that’s obscene.
It’s not a political issue – it’s a legal issue and politics needs to be extracted from the situation ASAP!
Yeah, but John Boehner says he can’t believe the CIA would lie.
Oh, wait, they’re professional liars. Dissembling is part of their job descriptions.
Lawrence O’Donnell was great on Morning Joe today when he pointed out that one of the Gods of conservativism, Barry Goldwater, said in 1984 that the CIA lied to him. Joe Scarborough was incensed and actually said Goldwater was crazy when he said it. He also is so scared of O’Donnell now that he calls him crazy to try to devalue what O’Donnell says. As soon as there is video I will post but its great to see how O’Donnell can get under Scar’s skin and shine truth on Morning Joe.
Keep pushing Greg. You are with the Washington Post and it is disappointing that Balz’s completely unbalanced story neglected any mention whatsoever of the claims of Rockefeller and, especially Graham, that the CIA also lied to them.
It’s as if the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. Katherine Graham, Bob’s sister-in-law, must be rolling over in her grave.
Tena,
Since when has appointing a special prosecutor extracted politics from anything. As long as there are career politicians and their backers to push the envelope they will politicize anything that they believe gives their side an advantage. Reality bites.
What’s that about being wired for Republicans? Never.
In addition to three senior Democratic senators publicly claiming the CIA memos are wrong, a narrow reading of Porter Goss’s claims are consistent with Pelosi’s claims. See Emptywheel on this: http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/25/porter-goss-attacks-on-pelosi-and-harman-but-admits-cia-broke-the-law/. Moreover, see James Fallows on the peculiar credibility of Graham’s claims: http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/05/the_cia_vs_sen_bob_graham_how.php
There’s a bizarre irony in this. Two constant targets of conservative criticism and cynicism are ‘government’ and ‘bureaucrats’. Yet somehow, a bureaucratic government agency such as the CIA (or Pentagon) is commonly conceived by conservatives as sitting next to god.
Partly, I think this results from the facelessness of the agency (in contrast to elected officials, like Pelosi) and it is much simpler for the concrete-minded to focus on the latter. But also, there’s a over-arching tendency for many of a conservative bent to find comfort in authoritarian systems. Horrible generality, I know, but very difficult to ignore the commonality of it in so much we look at.
It’s that goddam “librul media” again, Greg. You know — the group that always bends over backward to treat the GOP and the CIA so terribly unfairly, while relentlessly promoting and glorifying the “librul agenda.” Just ask any teabagger. They’ll tell you.
“Tena,
Since when has appointing a special prosecutor extracted politics from anything. As long as there are career politicians and their backers to push the envelope they will politicize anything that they believe gives their side an advantage. Reality bites.”
It’s the best we can do. No it’s not perfect – imagine that.
actuator = you could say the same damn thing about any justice matter. Politics is always involved, but the whole point of a special prosecutor is to mitigate the political to the extent possible.
Quit thinking Ken Starr and think Patrick Fitzgerald, instead.
This madness has to stop. All talking heads are on T.V. trying to muddy the water on this debate. One I often hear is Pelosi hasn’t been very clear.
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To be honest, I’m surprised everyone is talking about what Powell’s top aid said regarding the torture of the detainee to find the link between al-Qaeda and Iraq. At least Huffington post has it in big bold letters Drudge style on their front page.
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Maybe everyone needs to echo that story on their front pages until people realize what a big deal that is. It’s at the heart of this debate. And to go further, if it is truthful, it was in direct violation of the torture memo’s “approval” to torture only in the case of imminent threat to the U.S.
actuator – your argument lacks any sort of discernment. In what sense or case would it not apply to all such activities? The courts, for example? If you presume that partisan bias infects all things and bias over-arching and inevitable, then it is difficult to imagine what valid role you’d imagine for any government activity at all.
Tena…smooch
I agree. The CIA’s credibility is very much at issue in addition to Pelosi’s. Also, some media reports mention the CIA cover memo’s caveat that the chronological chart so often quoted was in part reconstructed by recollections of anonymous officials, not contemporaneous minutes. But most stories do not. They tyupically portray this as Pelosi’s word against the CIA documents.
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Also, Pete Hoekstra’s version of events has changed, but I have yet to see that noted. At first, he claimed the CIA records unequivocally prove that Pelosi was told in September 2002 that waterboarding had, in fact, been used. But later, after a Hoekstra aide inspected the still-classified CIA notes, his office backed off that claim, shifting ground to say the issue was not just Pelosi but all members.
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So it may well be that Pelosi is telling the truth on those narrow facts, and the CIA is spinning.
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Your own posts here have demonstrated that the CIA chart that has been released does not expressly say that Pelosi was told that waterboarding had, in fact, occurred. The chart has a long noun phrase, but not a complete sentence. The entire entry reads: “Briefing on EITs including use of EITs on Abu Zubaydah, background on authorities, and a description of the particular EITs that had been employed.”
That apparently refers to “a description” of waterboarding, because we know from other sources (the OLC memos) that method had been employed. But the CIA chart entry, not being a complete sentence, does not say Pelosi was told waterboarding actually had been used. That missing link is only inferred by others interpreting the memo — mostly Pelosi’s political enemies or lazy reporters.
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What is unambiguously true is that Pelosi was informed, via an aide, in early 2003 that waterboarding was used.
Evidently, the Bushies tortured to justify their illegal, unnecessary war in Iraq, and NOT, as claimed, to make us “safe.” If that can be proven so, a lot of Bushies will be Leavenworth-bound. And let it never be forgotten that 3,000 innocent Americans died on their home soil on the watch of, and due solely to the EPIC NATIONAL-SECURITY FAIL of, Dick, Bush and Condi.
Where is Colin Powell? Why isn’t the media asking THAT?
I’m beyond frustrated with Teflon Powell. He knows – he knows everything and he could have cleared all this up when he resigned but he didn’t and the media is giving him a PASS.
Where is Colin Powell???????
Shuster is now talking to Bob Graham on MSNBC
“What is unambiguously true is that Pelosi was informed, via an aide, in early 2003 that waterboarding was used.”
SO?
Colin Powell knew the minute they decided to do it cause he was there and he was in the administration and he had a duty to reveal all of this that Pelosi never has had and Powell has said NOTHING.
Bernie,
I referred to career politicians and their backers (string pullers?). Perhaps I was too all inclusive, but I do tend to look upon career politicians with skepticism that borders on cynicism I suppose.
IF the Repugs and the Right are this determined to set up these red herrings, like What Pelosi Knew, then by god, Colin Powell is a lot less red and stinky as a herring. In fact, he is absolutely relevant, whereas Pelosi and what she knew is NOT.
actuator – thanks for the response. I sympathize with your skepticism. But there’s an element in this that I find quite dangerous and damaging to our civic lives. A fundamental function of present rightwing media is to posit (implicitly more than explicitly) that all views, conclusions and activities have no grounding other than partisan bias (eg, the science on climate, whether torture is moral or immoral, etc etc). Facts and research and conclusions by investigative panels thus become merely instances of a political preference.
How about this, if you go to the “Morning Joe” website they have cut out all of the clips of Lawrence O’Donnell talking about Barry Goldwater saying the CIA lied to him. Seriously.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/#30762226
Dan Balz has always carried water for Drudge. Scarborough gets his material EVERY morning directly from Drudge. This is the allowable material to address on Drudge this morning:
~~~
-Gingrich: Pelosi ‘Lied,’ ‘Despicable,’ ‘Dishonest,’ ‘Vicious,’ ‘Trivial’…
-PELOSI VS. CIA…
-THEY LIED TO ME!
‘-Congress Was Misled’…
-Flustered… Video…
-Fuzzy…
-Dems: CIA briefers may have broken law…
-Cheney request denied…
~~~
That Gingrich piece is brand new fodder for Balz, Hulse, and Scarborough, fresh posted early this morning.
That’s just the way it is in Washington. Good for you on calling it out, but you linked to it, didn’t you? That’s the game. Drudge links are worth 700,000 hit in a day.
However Scarborough can’t stop Media Matters from showing Lawrence O’Donnell’s clip
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http://mediamatters.org/clips/200905150006
Shorthand version of the GOP approach: “We condemn you and demand your resignation, Speaker Pelosi, for not speaking up sooner or more loudly about the criminal, illegal, immoral, reprehensible anti-American acts we were committing overseas in all Americans’ names — acts whose existence we and our president and vice president lied about continuously, and which we ceased immediately when evidence of them finally came to light.”
You want to see better journalism? Link to better journalists. Here’s one:
Top Obama ally says CIA misled her on ‘torture’
Start reading Agence France Presse (AFP’s) stuff. They are unencumbered by the need to suck up to Washington elite, and are relatively immune to Republican spin and message management. When we start rewarding better journalism, we will get better journalism.
Anyone old enough to have witnessed the Iran-Contra hearings (and who still has an undamaged brain-stem) has no illusions regarding the dependability of CIA statements regarding the CIA’s activities.
Somebody ought to start making the case that public hearings on torture, on the misinformation purposefully disseminated to ramp up a consensus that Iraq was tied to al qaeda, the politicization of the JD etc will be very good for cable ratings.
let’s waterboard all of them till they tell the truth… of course they would all drown cuz they can’t tell the truth
“Anyone old enough to have witnessed the Iran-Contra hearings (and who still has an undamaged brain-stem) has no illusions regarding the dependability of CIA statements regarding the CIA’s activities.”
You had to wave that red cape at me, din’t ya?
I knew when they got away with Iran/Contra – and it was Cheney and Rummy, et al – that we were so phucked! And we were. I knew that it would encourage them to greater heights of criminality. And it did.
I don’t even want to have to think about how badly I think we need some law and order here. I don’t even want to think about it because it’s just going to devastate me when nothing happens.
I seem to remember a great deal of media scrutiny of two CIA assertions: (1) the 2007 Iran NIE stating that Iran had abandoned any nuclear weapons program, and (2) the CIA statement that Valerie Plame was a “covert” agent.
The media scrutiny of the CIA on those two issues was nearly endless. Why is it so different now?
Oh, yes, by all means, keep up the CIA bashing. Ignore the politicians, because we all know that only Republicans lie. Demoralize the CIA! Emasculate the CIA, NSA and the military! Achieve your glorious victories in the court of public opinion. I mean, who needs a robust and invigorated bunch of intelligence agencies anyway? It’s not like faulty intelligence has ever led to any problems in the past, right?
“Why is it so different now?”
Yeah, well, how come nobody is asking about Powell? Since this is supposedly all about who knew what when, why hasn’t the media even so much as mentioned his name? An aide has made a public statement – why didn’t that prompt the question?
“It’s not like faulty intelligence has ever led to any problems in the past, right?”
Ahem – you’d best review the information from the last few days. That “faulty intel” was tortured out of people on purpose by the White House, directing the CIA.
Tena – you’re a bull?! I’ll have to rethink some things then as we’re now into the tricky gender stuff. There are a couple of states where when a farmer is caught in intimate embrace with one of the critters out on the pasture, there will be some level of community disapproval. But where that critter and farmer are the same gender, then it’s a hanging.
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We can’t let that happen. Cheney et al are working very hard to prevent investigations, particularly public. They are jumping on every possible lever to make it appear that the consequences for the administration to move that direction too cumbersome and volatile to so procede. Cheney doesn’t give a poop what citizens think of him and his present PR activities (and everything he’s doing behind the scenes) are directed at moving the Washington consensus in a particular direction. Depending on how successful he and his friends are at this goal, it may well fall to citizens to give the necessary push.
First of all, I find it hard to believe that CIA would not tell Congress about torture for a couple of reason. The first is that they knew that these techniques would be controversial and the mood of the Country was such tat that time that no one would be opposed to them, especially Congress. It would have been maybe the first time ever in its history that CIA would have cover from Congress to do these things. This type of an opportunity for cover would not be passed up by the CIA. The second point and one which gets little coverage in the media is the conduct of the Bush Administration in general. We can argue the policies and whether we should have gone into Iraq, etc., but the one thing that Bush did believe in was having procedures and decorum in how they handled things. The Bush administration did use wiretaps, but did not use them over zealously. They did not use these torture techniques on every detainee. Even now, when he is constantly criticized on a daily basis he has remain silent and above it all in order to show the Office the proper amount of respect and to allow BHO to have his own presidency. Its a shame that the Democrats have chosen to look backward instead of focusing on the issues at hand.
“Tena – you’re a bull?”
Metaphorically, darlin, only.
I’m so not a guy.
“t Bush did believe in was having procedures and decorum in how they handled things. The Bush administration did use wiretaps, but did not use them over zealously. They did not use these torture techniques on every detainee. Even now, when he is constantly criticized on a daily basis he has remain silent and above it all in order to show the Office the proper amount of respect and to allow BHO to have his own presidency. Its a shame that the Democrats have chosen to look backward instead of focusing on the issues at hand.”
I don’t care how much thought and care Commander CooCoo and Darth Cheney used in deciding how and whom to torture when.
It’s illegal. It’s a violation of the constitution which explicitly includes all our treaties and we signed the Geneva Conventions and they make waterboarding illegal AND WE, THE UNITED STATE, EXECUTED JAPANESE FOR WATERBOARDING AFTER WWII.
Gee – one more thing – the Nazis were very considerate in that they kept meticulous records on the people they killed.
Wasn’t that nice?
In their inimitable circular-firing-squad style, I think once again, the Teabagger Party is going to be very, very sorry they chose to attempt to fan the flames of this controversy for what they *think* is a short-term political gain, only to have it bite them squarely on the asss yet again. Mark my words: This attempt to divert the spotlight away from their despicable crimes and on to Speaker Pelosi will backfire brilliantly.
Isn’t there enough evidence available now to justify the survivors of those killed in the war in Iraq to sue Condi, Rummy, Dick and the Dummy for their malfeasance in pursuing the war. Their governmental positions protect them against nonfeasance (lordy, that it didn’t because they could be sued fo r 9-11) or misfeasance, but this clear malice and illegality opens them to civil suits. I say break them and leave them and their families living in cardboard boxes under overpasses and begging for scraps for the rest of their miserable lives.
Gee – your assertion on wiretaps is unwarranted. You don’t possess such knowledge. That not all detainees were tortured is an argument that a rather lousy defense lawyer would be making if he laid it before a jury or judge as to why his rapist client ought to be forgiven because he only raped six women. As to looking back, we’re all very happy that the Nuremberg procedures concentrated on rebuilding German self esteem by ignoring the past.
LOL The Bush WhiteHouse didn’t use wiretaps over zealously? You must have mean OTHER than when they did. Oh and I notice you didn’t use the more accurate description “illegal wiretapping”. Google “NSA targets media”
I don’t bother with Joe – morning or not. His pal Mika defends him at the NYT Letters section today. She is a punch bag, unfortunately, and pretty dimwitted. Her father saw through Joe and called him out.
I, too, am surprised at how Colin Powell manages to say nothing significant on this subject. But, really, has Powell stood for anything? I know he was a good general. But he saluted Bush 1, served Cheney and did not find it difficult to undercut Clinton.
He is, perhaps, the most over-rated Republican on the “bright side”
Consistent with my comment above, the JustOneMinute blog points out that Porter Goss also is parsing his words way too carefully is describing the 2002 briefing he and Pelosi attented, and the story he tells is really consistent with hers. (He just wants us not to think so.)
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http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/05/trust-no-one.html
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From that blog:
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Let’s reprise the too-cute Porter Goss:
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Porter J. Goss, a former C.I.A. director who as a Republican congressman from Florida attended the September briefing with Ms. Pelosi, said in an article published in The Washington Post that lawmakers were suffering from “amnesia” if they “claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as ‘waterboarding’ were never mentioned.”
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His verb usage makes me tense. If the September briefing was clear that waterboarding was used on Zubaydah in August, why did Goss write that the techniques “were to actually be employed”? Surely it it would have been simpler to write ‘They told us the techniques had already been employed’.
I would tend to put my faith in the CIA who keeps meticulous records than Nancy Socialist Pelosi. She is the most incompetent woman I have ever witnessed. The scariest part is that she is 3rd in line for the Presidency. God help our country. Well, we now have President Pretty Speech Obama, Joe Foot in Mouth Biden, and Nancy Liar Liar Pelosi. Wow, I know I have confidence in our government now.
Benton Fraser
Actually Benton, I am thrilled that the flames have been fanned. When you start throwing stones be careful…the stones wind up in the hands of the opposition. And we throw back.
“I would tend to put my faith in the CIA who keeps meticulous records than Nancy Socialist Pelosi. She is the most incompetent woman I have ever witnessed. The scariest part is that she is 3rd in line for the Presidency. God help our country. Well, we now have President Pretty Speech Obama, Joe Foot in Mouth Biden, and Nancy Liar Liar Pelosi. Wow, I know I have confidence in our government now.”
It might help your argument if you actually cited some facts that demonstrate your assertion that the Speaker is incompetent and a liar. AS it is you just smeared her out of thin air and that makes you a jackazz and a liar – so who’s incompetent?
It would be interesting to learn from TiredofLies just how he managed to come by the certainty that the CIA keeps meticulous records of all things. I’ve not had the opportunity personally to see these records. Perhaps he could be referring to video recordings of interrogations, meticulously destroyed.
Pelosi said she never knew about waterboarding. She now says she did after evidence came out. She is not crdible. The CIA has produced notes that were made at the time – during the meetings and immediately after (not recollection seven years later). The CIA has produced documents that both embarass them (Torture memos) and that help them (the briefing notes).
Pelosi is not credible, they are.
Fair enough. But I think reasonable people can agree that Ms. Pelosi is not a very good at advancing her everchanging point of view. She may not be lying — but she certainly hasn’t said anything or conducted herself in a way which reinforce an image of honesty. The best thing the Democrats could do is to bench her and get a spokesman who at least appears to be credible.
Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if Pelosi and other highly-placed Democrats knew what was going on and did bugger all about it. The period 2001-2004 is going to go down in history as a time of abject cowardice by Congressional democrats.
But even so it baffles me that she is somehow being held more culpable than the people who authorized torture in the first place.
^^Agree w/agio. It wouldn’t surprise me if Pelosi knew what was going on, based on her spinelessness on standing up to Bushco even as late as summer 2008 on the issue of impeachment, based on her pro-Iraq-war sentiments, based on her support for the bailouts. But you’re right. Pelosi should be the least of our concerns when the people who perpetrated and authorized this are being looked at less critically than those who simply knew about it.
Stop the **** pile-on on this woman. How the heck is this even a story? The people attacking her are doing it why? The case is that she knew about things that her opponents say aren’t illegal and that makes her culpable of crimes? What? If she had blown the whistle back then, she would have been imprisoned! I’m thoroughly confused by this entire situation. Does no one actually internalize the method from all those idiotic police procedural shows that are too popular? Someone broke the law, someone else comes in, investigates, finds crimes, hands it over to prosecutors who go to trial and then either get convictions or don’t. We can’t make exceptions for the ruling class, no matter how “scared” we all were. We are so into naval-gazing right now that we are missing the big picture here; we are letting idiots who couldn’t win two wars against lesser enemies, have collapsed the economy, divided the country into red and blue teams, and just recently lost a national election in a LANDSLIDE try to convince us that they are the white knights who keep us safe. I support the President, but he has to realize he is making his most fervent supporters question his ethics when he is being cheered by the Kristols and Cheneys and Roves. The world is laughing at us, supposedly the Leaders of the Free World (hah!) debating evil with evil people.
Wise up folks.
Stop sparring with loser Republicans online and start sparring with loser Republicans face to face, in newspaper editorials, phone calls to elected representatives. Fight back, don’t just howl at the wind.
agio is correct about the 2001 – 2004 time frame. There was a mood of anger and fear in this nation. A significant segment of the population wanted to strike out at those responsible for 9/11 without due concern for establishing the appropriate target. There was fear of more attacks. The politicians on the right wanted an aggresive response. Those on the left went along with the mood of the country and we wound up in a war. Not many were willing to challenge questionable/unproven methodology to obtain information to prevent another attack. Now that we’ve cooled down the arm chair quarterbacking has begun. Although it does not justify the actions that resulted, they must be viewed in the context of the time. The Japanese Internment undertaken by FDR is a good example of such an ignorant response to public mood and sentiment. It was ignorant because the loyalty and patriotism of Japanese Americans was not considered or evaluated. The lessons of history are often ignored. This won’t be the last time.
LOL the person who said “When we start rewarding better journalism, we will get better journalism.” You mean, of course, journalism that only offers viewpoints about which you agree, eh?
The best journalism pisses off both sides of most issues, because it is rare that any story can be painted in black and white; reality is far more gray than many on this message board want to accept.
Actuator and agio are completely right about the mood of the nation immediately post 9-11. Pelosi et al almost certainly knew, and if U.S. citizens were told during this time frame, you can bet they would have approved overwhelmingly. Pelosi is NOT being criticized for knowing because, as others point out, her chief critics approve of water-boarding as an interrogation technique. She is being criticized because she appears to be highly disingenuous at best about what she knew. Let’s keep in mind that she’s the 3rd-highest ranking officer in the government; it seems highly unlikely that she did not know.
By all means, if the news doesn’t favor liberals it should be altered to accommodate “fairness”.
Pelosi is a liar. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Liberals think Americans are stupid and, with the aid of the extremely biased media, she thought she could pull this off.
Pelosi is the Speaker of the House. She is purposely lying to the American public to save her political hide. She should be impeached.
Any time you see the words “fair” or “fairness” be prepared to bend over and grab your ankles. Fairness is subjective and always in the eye of the beholder.
While it’s good to point out that the media is acting like a bunch a shills for the right wing (which might be because it is owned and edited by right wingers), even the framing here is rather biased. Rather than talking about “equal” examination of Pelosi’s and the CIA’s credibility about who told what to whom when — which is absurd because the relationship was not symmetric, Pelosi only RECEIVED information but couldn’t act on it — how about the fact that the CIA … TORTURED PEOPLE. Oh, and they did it under the orders of REPUBLICANS. Every time the Republicans open their mouths about Pelosi and torture, an honest objective reporter should REPORT that the Republicans are THE TORTURE PARTY. It was their President, their administration, their policy.
“Liberals think Americans are stupid”
No, we only think ghat demonstrably stupid people — people like ricardo maxwell — are stupid.
“Pelosi is NOT being criticized for knowing because, as others point out, her chief critics approve of water-boarding as an interrogation technique.”
That’s a blatant lie. Torture was the REPUBLICAN policy, it was not Pelosi’s policy. The REPUBLICANS who created and approved and implemented this policy are WAR CRIMINALS, and the only reason they are talking about Pelosi is to avoid responsibility. The Republican Party is the IRRESPONSIBILITY party. When they talk about “individual responsibility”, they are always talking about OTHER people’s responsibility. IOKIYAR.
“The case is that she knew about things that her opponents say aren’t illegal and that makes her culpable of crimes? What? ”
Quite so. Those attacking Pelosi are thugs; war criminals or promoters of war crimes.
“would tend to put my faith in the CIA who keeps meticulous records than Nancy Socialist Pelosi. She is the most incompetent woman I have ever witnessed. The scariest part is that she is 3rd in line for the Presidency. God help our country. Well, we now have President Pretty Speech Obama, Joe Foot in Mouth Biden, and Nancy Liar Liar Pelosi.”
I would be tired of lies too, if I told as many as you do. Your party is the torture party. They are the party of war crimes. And you are complicit and responsible.
“First of all, I find it hard to believe”
Who cares what someone with an IQ obviously well below 100 finds hard to believe?
You want to see better journalism? Link to better journalists. Here’s one:
Top Obama ally says CIA misled her on ‘torture’
Indeed. It is not hard to grasp from that article that Republicans are thuggish scum, war criminals and promoters of war crimes who then blame those crimes on those who “did not forcefully object”.
Well..
I for one could care less about who knew what, who was singled out for enhanced questioning by whatever means necessary to save American Lives. It saved American Lives.. and there was no broken bones, no physical wounds, just physical and mental extreme exposure..
Take a look at what was done to our troops in Vietnam, Korea and the beheadings donein the name of ALLAH.
Instead Let’s put the pedal to the metal… and go for it.
Instead of letting the crooks in DC review this one..
Let’s have an independent investigation.. into the entire mess that
the Wicked Witch from the West has opened.
Lets put both parties under the gun. Go after the Franks, Dodds, Reids, Rankels and all the corrupt politicians on both sides of the fence.
While we are at it … lets take a look at all the files that the Messiah has sealed with his team of legal dawgs.
Just make sure that it is INDEPENDENT and those doing the investigation are neither Democrats or Republians.
Might be a good time to purge the house, senate and the white house all in one swoop.
Do it all in the name of corruption in politics in DC.
Like the Chicago politics in the future filling of the Senate Seat that Clinton vacated. Obama has already DECREED who will fill that slot..
STOP! The Attacks On Speaker Pelosi
Last time they tried to attack Speaker Pelosi ( second in line to the President of the United States) it was about her alleged abuse of military transportation. This attack as expected turned out to be bogus. It turned out that the previous Speaker (Hastert – a Republican) made far more use of military transportation. It turned out that Speaker Pelosi was possibly overly prudent and too self-restrained in her use of military transportation.
Now Republicans are trying to attack her about allegedly having been told by the Bush administration about things she was not told about, like water boarding. Republicans are attacking her because she is being so effective at getting the peoples work done in congress, like healthcare. And Republicans want to stop her. Don’t put up with that. Every time they attack Speaker Pelosi they are attacking you and the rest of the American people. If they go after her, go after them even harder.
They are trying to con Speaker Pelosi and the American people. And here is how it works. Approximately 6 years ago CIA had a briefing with Pelosi and congress, but DID NOT tell congress and Pelosi that the Bush administration was using torture ( water boarding ) on detainees. Then the Bush administration sent in Porter Goss to head the CIA and to destroy, and doctor records in part to make it look like Pelosi, and the Democrats in congress were onboard with the illegal torture of detainees by the Bush administration.
See, apparently at these intelligence briefings members of congress are not allowed to take notes. And if they do, they are not allowed to keep them. Apparently the CIA makes notes, but the members of congress are not allowed to see those notes either. And they can’t tell anybody about what was said at the briefings. But the CIA can come back six years later and claim they told members of congress something six years ago that they did not tell them at that time. And they can use falsified notes to substantiate their claim. Planting disinformation was the type of thing the CIA became very good at during the time Porter Goss was a young CIA agent. Just gotta love it.
If you will remember, their was a mass exodus of senior CIA officials after Porter Goss took over. And the complaint at the time was that longtime, highly experienced agents were being replaced by other people based mostly on their political loyalties to the Bush administration and their extreme right-wing ideologies. Which is just exactly what you need if you want people who will be willing to break the law under orders. Sound familiar? I don’t think you can trust any CIA records after Goss took over.
I have nothing but the utmost respect, and admiration for the dedicated and patriotic members of OUR! Central Intelligence Agency. When the Bush administration betrayed one of OUR! agents (Mrs. Wilson) it made me boiling MAD! I think our new Director Pennetta has got some internal investigation and agency house cleaning to do. If you backtrack on the individuals that have been making the false attacks on Speaker Pelosi, and trace who they have had contact and conversations with, you should be able to connect the dots and catch your conspirators.
The key that the CIA records are falsified is Sen. Bob Graham and his journal, and common sense.
By the way, I think Mr. Pennetta is an excellent choice to head the CIA and fix it.
They are trying to kill healthcare reform. And continue our healthcare crisis. Don’t put up with that.
PASS THE WORD.
To The Congress Of The United States:
If it is true that you are not allowed to have or make any permanent records of your intelligence briefings for later clarifications, and protection, that is ridiculous. That leaves all of you vulnerable to just this type of scam that is being perpetrated on Speaker Pelosi. So here is what you can do about it to protect your-selves in the future.
Members should be able to make notes and other recordings of these briefings. Then these briefings and recordings can be reduced to a computer file that can then be encrypted and digitally signed with a detached digital signature using key encryption. Then each of you can encrypt, and sign each others copy of the record that can only be unlocked with the other parties key. And both parties copies can be verified with each others copy of the files detached digital signature.
Very easy. Very secure. No more exposure to falsified records down the road.
You see, it almost doesn’t really matter what CIA allegedly did or didn’t tell Speaker Pelosi, and congress. Because the briefing format is so deficient of any checks, balances, or verification that all we know is that all external briefing accounts support Speaker Pelosi’s version of events. Pelosi and congress should have been given every benefit of the doubt. And that should have been it.
There are many other booby traps out there set for you congress. Be careful.
God Bless You
jacksmith — WORKING CLASS
p.s. I still think the timing of Sen. Bob Graham’s ruptured cerebral aneurism was suspicious. More so now, than before.