Liz Cheney Claims Victory In Obama Detainee Photo Reversal
On Tuesday, Liz Cheney was widely quoted bashing Obama for being prepared to release the detainee photos, a move she said would be anti-troops. “When did it become so fashionable for us to side, really, with the terrorists?” Cheney asked.
Yesterday, of course, Obama reversed his decision, citing national security. Now check out this nugget in today’s Washington Post piece on Dick Cheney’s ongoing torture tour:
“This isn’t about partisan politics, it’s about what’s right for the country,” said Liz Cheney, the former vice president’s daughter and a former State Department official. “Every American, whether you’re a Republican, Democrat or independent, would agree that before critical decisions are made about national security of the nation, we ought to have a full and fair debate.”
Cheney’s daughter was among those who pointed to yesterday’s White House reversal on the detainee photos as evidence that a vocal, public debate over the new administration’s policies can make a difference.
So Liz Cheney is claiming victory, and clearly, this will only embolden the Cheneys to keep up the assaults.
By saying that he has now concluded that releasing the photos would endanger the troops, Obama is reinforcing the idea that he was originally prepared to do something that would endanger the troops, and only reversed himself after conservatives called him out on it. Whatever the merits of Obama’s decision, its political impact is that it lets the Cheneys continue to frame the ongoing debate, and to continue casting a full torture accounting as a threat to our national security.
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Liz Cheney accused President Obama and Democrats of “siding with terrorists” yet none of the clowns who has a sh*t fit over what Wanda Sykes had to say about Rushbo’s fat drug addled a$$ had a word to say about Liz Cheney. There is no legitimate reason for cable news programs to give her a platform and yet they keep doing so. Here is the thing Greg, how much coverage did the hearing with Ali Soufan from yesterday get on the cable news shows or in the paper today? Other than KO and Maddow not much at all. And this morning Joe Scarborough actually tried to defame Ali Soufan by saying he was lying or exaggerating just to try to defend torture. Just goes to show how easy actual news gets kicked to the curb in favor of references to Liz Cheney and her crazy train.
The Democrats are doing a lousy job in pushing back on this Cheney act, and the cave yesterday didn’t help. How Democratic Party — take a powerful winning issue and shoot yourself in the foot with it. Or is it just that Obama is weak? I’m beginning to wonder.
BHO knows that the courts will force the release of the photos.
BHO is saving a little bit of face by appearing to be sensitive to the impact of the unwise release of the photos.
Liz on tv? Dick on tv? Why be so scared of this? Why it is ok for any liberal to say anything they want, but as soon as a conservative [or independent for that reason] it’s accused of being a waste of time, a free-stage for crazy talk, a compsiracy, etc.
Get over yourselves people. BHO, and Bush are the same in many many ways. Over spending and NOT listening to the people who elected them. BHO promised gay community a lot… Then turned his back. BHO promised no tax hikes on the poor and middle class, now he raising taxes on consumer goods AND enforcing fees, fines, and taxes on companies and utilities that will passed down to the consumer.
Until we get a truly independent politician in the WhiteHouse we can expect more of the same.
So… Turn your anger away from the Cheneys and start taking your elected officials to task. Stop the online whining and start ratteling the chains in the halls of congress in DC and in your own state.
Mainly because all conservative talk IS a waste of time by crazy, deluded lunatics and conspiracy theorists. Take your silly, nonsensical post, for example. Next?
First of all he President Obama hasn’t raised taxes on consumer goods. Secondly are you actually advocating for letting people who break the law get away with it? Third President Obama hasn’t “turned his back” on the gay community. Fourth Liz Cheney has now unique knowledge that she should be able to go on cable news shows and spout propaganada unchallenged. I don’t have a problem with Dick Cheney being on Tee Vee because he can only help Democrats and hurt Republicans but that doesn’t change the fact that what he is doing is reprehensible and if a Democrat did it Republicans would call them traitors. Because for as much as right wingers say Al Gore criticized Bush over the Iraq War (which he was 100% right on in his criticism) they never point out the kind of vitriol that was aimed at him from Republicans for doing so. He was called unpatriotic many many times and he was labeled as “wanting America to lose”. Thats the kind of sh*t that Republicans can get away with saying about a former Democratic VP but let a Democrat criticize Cheney and the howls come up about “freedom of speech” and that Cheney “is only doing it because he loves his country”. No he is only doing it because he doesn’t want to go to jail and he know he needs a Republican administration in place ASAP to pardon his evil a$s
SGWF says “Secondly are you actually advocating for letting people who break the law get away with it?”
What law has been broken?
SG: You have to admit the the Dems do a lousy job of pushback. take Pelosi: why isn’t she getting Graham, Rockefeller and Harman and hold a presser to fight back? Why the silence? Hoekstra is out there knowing he would get kicked.
John
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This was said by Derek
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SimonJ
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Pelosi and Harman don’t get along. As for Rockefeller I don’t know. But I think the biggest thing is that Pelosi was out of town when the intelligence report came out. But here is the deal, the truth is the Republicans are falling into a trap. The more they keep calling for finding out who knew what and when you know what they are really calling for? A Truth Commission. And soon Republicans are going to get people so riled up about wanting to string up Pelosi et al that they will be putting pressure for the exact same investigation that Republicans don’t really want. Its actually hilariouos to watch. I don’t think it a product of some genius plan by the Dems though. I just think the Republicans are too stupid to see that they are making the best case for an investigation that could possibly be made.
sorry greg but I think this post of yours is just as bad as the Ignatious piece making this some sort of political game. Cheney claims it is her doing so ipso facto Obama has made himself weaker. Sorry but we have *no* idea what the mover was–info from the military, waiting for the courts to force them into the release, a mix of these two–but the assumption that because the crazy train will declare victory over Obama has given them a victory is just more 24 hour cycle reading of the situation. You know I am a fan of your work, but of this analysis not so much.
**** liz cheney. she didnt when anything. its counter intuitive to say that these policies are so successful at keeping us safe but if people see them we could be attacked because of them. if you cant protect us in the day light than dont protect us in secret. The fact of the matter is everyone knows republicans dominate the newscycle. They want to win the day who cares. Lets get all of our **** together and hit them with it at one time. Let them continue defending this ****. And when all of it blows up in their face we will be on the side of justice.
Greg – you are doing it again – reasoning from the specific to the general without hitting all the bases – you can’t draw this conclusion.
You do not know and I do not know what people think of Liz Cheney and her wild claims. You don’t know if this had handed this issue to the Cheneys. That’s your take on it.
HAS handed…
again, I’m not commenting on the merits of the decision. just on the political impact of it.
Here is what Greg wrote
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By saying that he has now concluded that releasing the photos would endanger the troops, Obama is reinforcing the idea that he was originally prepared to do something that would endanger the troops, and only reversed himself after conservatives called him out on it. Whatever the merits of Obama’s decision, its political impact is that it lets the Cheneys continue to frame the ongoing debate, and to continue casting a full torture accounting as a threat to our national security.
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What in that paragraph is even debatable? You don’t think this move will embolden the Cheney’s and the wingnuts? You don’t think it will reinforce the notion that he was going to endanger the troops by releasing these pictures to those who already believed that? You don’t believe that the move, no matter how sound, will now help the Cheney’s keep their high profile on national security issues? No matter how much support you have for President Obama, and I have plenty, you can’t deny the optics of this move.
“again, I’m not commenting on the merits of the decision. just on the political impact of it.”
I get that, Greg, but the problem is that you do not know what the political impact is going to be – yet. You may be wrong. I don’t think Liz Cheney has helped anyone here -
“You don’t think this move will embolden the Cheney’s and the wingnuts?”
Like they needed a shot of “emboldening”? they invented it. This was just a gimme for them that will probably just simmer on the left and the vast middle won’t care or will be glad to get this out of the way if possible.
I don’t think the will is there in the population for this. It’s just here on the left that we so desperately want war crimes trials. The rest of the country wants the economy to work and I don’t think they want something to suck all the oxygen out of everything else, like health care. Cause I promise ya’ll, this will.
I’m with ifo here.
Let’s ignore for the moment what motive is driving the Cheneys. If we simply consider his past history as regards controlling information and narrative then what he and his daughter are now doing is entirely predictable. It wouldn’t have mattered what decision Obama had made here, the two Cheney’s (and others in their sphere) would be in front of the cameras and in the op ed pages loudly pushing whatever spin would serve their purpose.
As I tried to argue earlier, these people aren’t stupid. They are masterful at this game. They are also, without doubt, amoral bullies who have a socially pathological need to gain and retain dominance.
I don’t believe Obama’s decision to withhold the photos for the present is critical in this battle to put Cheney and others under investigation and to effectively remove them from polite society. But I think we better prepare for non-stop attempts to obstruct investigation and release of information and moves by Justice to bring them to account. And we certainly better expect that the loud presence of these people in the media (and manipulation of the media, overt and covert) will continue precisely as we see it now.
To make Greg’s point check out David Ignatius’ op ed today.
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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2009/05/obamas_sister_soulja_moment.html?hpid=topnews
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This is now being framed as a “sister soulja” moment by a prominent member of the Village meaning President Obama rejected us “far left libruls” in order to keep the soldiers safe which obviously we have no concern about. Thats the optics of this move in the media and thus in public discourse. It is what it is.
Senator Whitehouse just had a hearing on torture yesterday and the world didn’t come to an end. Republicans have been attacking Nancy Pelosi for weeks now and she just came out and said the House will have a healthcare bill by this summer. No air is being sucked out of anything. That is just a cannard to keep people from pushing for an investigation.
Let me add…I think we ought to assume that part of what is going on here is what these folks hope might be achieved through constant and ubiquitous obstruction – that the Obama team will make mistakes under pressure or that they will descend into an uncareful response or set of responses (perhaps looking petty or mean, that is, working counter to their present image of being above and better than the typical Washington behavior) which might work to decrease his popularity. Don’t forget that this is a fundamental technique of these people – to make the opponent poorly thought of. Future Republican electoral chances are very poor so long as Obama’s popularity remains high, so that’s likely the FUNDAMENTAL goal in all they are doing presently and in the future.
sg – it’s a good point and one we likely need to keep reminding ourselves regarding…the high-speed nervous anxieties of daily (hourly, minutely) political maneuvering and frantic responses is something a lot of us are part of but we represent a very small fraction of the population. It’s rather as if we are all employees at “Emergencies R Us”.
Agree with ifo, Tena, and Bernie. But let’s not overlook the obvious. If we pay so much attention to Liz Cheney, we just play into their bigger strategy: Liz Cheney 2012.
the only people saying barack rejected the left are the people who want to see him reject the left. liz and dick cheney will be infront of all their defense on this stuff and the more they talk the more information that gets out the worse they look. the politics of this looks like he had a change of heart due to what his commanders said. the fact we are even considering cheneys role in this is ridiculous.
“Liz Cheney 2012″
A gay Republican female presidential candidate. I guess it would represent some sort of social advance.
I know its outlandish but I’d like for someone with a vocal voice to go on to the tube and claim they get the strong feeling Cheney, being the egotistical ideological maniac he is, is hoping for a terrorist attack so he can turn around and say I told you so. Both him and his troglodyte daughter.
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Here’s the thing though about the Cheney’s. And I really really hate to say this even though I think his pro-torture stance is insane.
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Can you blame Cheney for coming out for his own defense and his daughter as well? His daughter is only looking out for her dad. And well, Cheney is coming out to defend his own hide. If I knew the majority of those in charge are interested in getting to the bottom of who said what when and how, I would get out in front of the debate and try and set the direction of it any way I could.
And regarding the change of position regarding the photos. Many leave out the fact Obama stood with Gates on this issue originally. It was only after speaking with Odierno and McKiernen that both Gates and Obama changed their mind LAST week.
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I look at it this way. Obama has a burden that many of us don’t have. The burden of his decisions. If he, in the end strongly believed releasing these photos might be used to further recruit jihadists to kill Americans, is it so wrong holding up the pictures for now?
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What’s more important? Stability in the regions where we’re trying to build a relationship or the ACLU having some pictures? What is the point of the ACLU having the pictures honestly?
SGW–sorry but Ignatious is always making everything Obama does into some rejecting of the left. As is the Village in general. Greg is making *their* point not the other way around.
mike: im agreeing with you. my opinion is really that after abu grahib we had the counter insurgency and you know who was in the middle of that? odierno, and the new commander in afghanistan. they were there when abu grahib broke and the fall out so maybe they know something we dont. I think they didnt release this because of the fall out. they dont want to have to deal with a fall out when they dont want to prosecute. i think we are right now so bent on getting cheney and crew that we are over looking the continuing operations. when you have wanted something for so long and you have the opportunity to get it, its hard to take other things into account. i think we have to be patient with this
Off topic, but I just wanted to point this out. Limbaugh has as yet said nothing about Crist. That is outside his normal pattern and it indicates, I think, Limbaugh’s behind the scenes coordination with the RNC establishment (anaethema to much of his base, of course).
Bernie, quick fact check. You’ve mixed up the Cheney daughters. You’re thinking of Mary, not Liz. To borrow from Miss California, Liz is in an opposite marriage.
ABC – goodness. Didn’t realize there were two. It’s been such a long time since I was invited over for dinner. My apologies for the stupid error and thanks kindly for the correction!