Is CIA Suppressing “Holy Grail” Torture Report That Would Undercut Cheney?
On Friday, there may be a major development in the torture wars: The CIA is set to release portions of a 2004 report that reportedly found no proof that torture foiled any terror plots, which would dramatically undercut Dick Cheney’s claims that torture worked.
But a news story this morning raises the question: Is the CIA trying to keep chunks that would undermine Cheney under wraps?
As I’ve noted here before, Dem staffers on the Hill call this report the “Holy Grail” because it contains a whole chapter on the “effectiveness” — or lack thereof — of torture.
The report has already been released in connection with an ACLU lawsuit, but much of it has been redacted — including the “effectiveness” chapter. That chapter is reported to say there’s no proof that torture foiled any plots, but the details are unknown.
CIA officials have already announced they will release more of the report this coming Friday, in response to the Obama administration’s request to do so. But now today’s Washington Post reports that CIA officials are pushing to keep big chunks of the report classified.
It’s unclear what, precisely, the CIA wants kept under wraps. The Post says the CIA is resisting the declassification of parts “describing in graphic detail how the agency handled its detainees,” which may or may not include the “effectiveness” chapter.
The larger context here is important. Keep in mind that even though Cheney personally oversaw multiple briefings of Congress about torture, the CIA docs on the briefings didn’t mention Cheney at all. The question now is whether something similar will happen this Friday with the “Holy Grail” report.
Much more on other aspects of this from Marcy Wheeler.
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I realize that many consider this an important line to pursue but allow me to point out that whether “torture works” or not, it is still an abhorrent practice that should be eliminated solely on that one value.
For example, imagine if just one torture practice was discovered to ‘work”, would it then become an acceptable practice and no longer called torture but “enhanced interrogation”?
I say torture is torture and needs no “it doesn’t work” defense to stand up opposition to the practice.
Completely OT: has anyone been able to get on Washington Monthly’s site this morning, or is it just me?
The CIA should not be in the business of protecting America from the truth.
I am totally in agreement with gonzone…
and add that, if the torturers and their protectors go unpunished, there will DEFINITELY be more tortures down the road because the only two blockades for such conduct are values (which, as we see, did not hinder this past administration) and fear of consequences. When the fear of retalliation no longer exists… any future (or present leadership can repeat this same action… and afterwards, back up their decision with the absolute proof that the precedent was in place to not be punished.
This is sad, coming from a nation which has placed its entire being on protecting OTHER nations’ citizens from this exact scenario.
kelley — WM is having server problem, should be back up soon…and others, agreed, the “does it works” question is a narrow one. that said it seems like an important debate to engage along with all the other ones…
Everyone is missing a major point – and it should be asked to every GOPer that supports torture:
“Is it okay to do these same things to our soldiers if they are captured?”
Cheney and Bush have guaranteed this to happen.
The REAL “holy grail” is the that Cheney and company WANTED false intelligence to buttress their case for things like the war in Iraq. I repeat: They WANTED phony intelligence. Whether torture “works” in obtaining real information was absolutely IRRELEVANT to them. Torture worked perfectly fine for their purposes which, as with so many torturers throughout history, was used to obtain FALSE statements.
Do you think it would have been redadcted if it stated how effective tourure was?
Joe Scarborough on MSNBC just revealed this am that the CIA is speaking to Cheney daily.
*****
Joe Scarborough on MSNBC revealed 6-16-09 that the CIA is speaking to Cheney daily.
*****
June 16- not 17- 2009
If the report shows no effectiveness from the torture it would serve to prove to people once and for all to the doubters that Cheney is liar (and maybe make his daughter shut up).
We must never forget that G.H.W. Bush ran the CIA at one time. I’m sure there are things he put in place during his tenure there that are still being followed today. What an interesting career that man had, hm-m-m? Congress, Ambassador to China, CIA, White House.
It’s NOT a question as to if torture works or does not work….IT’s ILLEGAL….against our laws,,..treaties and moral compass….ANYBODY that sanctioned torture…..needs to testify….NOBODY in Bush Admn above the law….
It doesn’t matter whether or not torture worked. It’s ILLEGAL!!!!
Cheney is a war criminal and should be tried as one.
Random thoughts:
Agreed – Cheney’s diversionary tactic, that the end justifies the means and coincidentally covers his own behind, has thus far been a successful one. Why the media gives it any space is beyond me.
Self-preservation is instinctive in all biological organisms. The first job of the CIA is to protect the CIA. The second job of the CIA is to protect America.
Lastly, consider the possibility that the Obama Administration is more politically savvy, in the traditional Washington sense, and that Cheney is playing the fool perfectly.
I thought the CIA was supposed to answer to the elected leaders, is this not the case? If the President is actually in charge and these guys are refusing to do their jobs, can we expect terminations (remember Reagan and the Air Trafic Controllers) immediately?
“Joe Scarborough on MSNBC revealed 6-16-09 that the CIA is speaking to Cheney daily.”
sasha2008 | June 17th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
If we saw the same clip, (the one with Ed Schultz), Joe simply asked if Ed didn’t think Cheney was still getting leaked intelligence from the CIA. Fellow posters should watch the clip to see if maybe the comment was somewhat less definitive than Sasha would have us believe.
The CIA’s main job is to secure funding to maintain or increase its size and scope, just as every Congressperson’s main job is to get re-elected. People keep thinking that the CIA and members of Congress are supposed to be working for the people of the US. That is NOT on their list of priorities. If something benefits the American people, but gets the CIA’s funding cut, what is the benefit to the CIA? If something benefits the American people, but costs a Congressperson their seat, what is the benefit to that Congressperson? If something seems to be good for America, but would cost Obama his re-election chances, what is the possibility that Obama will see that thing as good for America? Approximately zero.
This whole question about whether or not it’s relevant to consider whether torture is effective has been addressed a lot on this blog. I believe it is relevant, and not because any finding of effectiveness would mean it should be employed. Rather, if torture is not effective (except for gaining desired false info), that’s a straightforward pushback against those who endorse it. If it is effective in some situations, our renewed governmental opposition to it becomes that much more persuasive: even if it works, we don’t do it. Period. And backgrounding all this is the fact that the question of effectiveness–whether anyone ever weighed that before torture was employed–is an essential part of transparency on this issue. Did those who authorized torture do so without even having any concern about its efficacy?
The only thing torture accomplishes is negative energy. This negative energy feeds the master of those who act in accordance with the masters wishes. This world is in the grips of darkness and immorality reigns supreme. The year is 2009, not 1409, but the days of the putrid Inquisition are upon us once again. The only way to destroy a snake is to cut off it’s head.
For too many years the CIA has been a rogue agency, time after time the agency has been named in conspiracy theories, from starting wars to assination. They answer to no one and have the majority of congress scared to say anything bad about them, what makes them any different than the KGB ? Months ago I heard that cheney got info from the agency , if this is true isn’t the agency breaking the law ? Why is one “citizen” privy to this info and not the American people ? Is it callede covering their butts ?
Assume torture is effective and necessary in order to prevent terror attacks. But terrorism is also effective and necessary, just ask any terrorist. Good luck convincing anyone with half a brain that the United States of America uses effective/necessary torture but only for good, whereas terrorists use effective/necessary terror but only for evil. Either way we’re in the gutter with the bad guys, so if you ask me, torture the bad guys equals the terrorists have already won.
A normal person cannot torture another human being. It requires a sadistic personality.
Torture was used to obtain false intelligence and confessions to support the “Official” story of 911.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammedwas tortured and confessed to EVERYTHING put to him.”According to the 9/11 Commission Report he was “the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks.” He is also thought to have had, or has confessed to, a role in many of the most significant terrorist plots over the last twenty years, including the World Trade Center 1993 bombings, the Operation Bojinka plot, an aborted 2002 attack on the U.S. Bank Tower in Los Angeles, the Bali nightclub bombings, the failed bombing of American Airlines Flight 63, the Millennium Plot, and the murder of Daniel Pearl.”
All under torture and all since denied by KSM.
Truth was tortured and it was no accident ,it was the original intent.Waterboard Cheney about Norman Minetta’s 911 Commission testimony about the “stand down order” given by Cheney on 911
Khalid S. Mohammed has already said that he gave false answers so the torture would stop.
Publisher’s Note: Our author had it right in 1987, but couldn’t get published because they said the events he predicted could not possibly happen. Well, they did, and we finally published him when we discovered the manuscript.
NEW YORK – THE PALESTINE CONSPIRACY, a genre spy-thriller by Robert Spirko, is now in its second printing and was fourth on the best-seller list at Atlasbooks, Inc., a national book distributor. Ingram Books is the worldwide distributor.
Spirko, a financial and geo-political analyst who has given his advice to the National Security Council, turned his attention to the Middle East in 1987, after discovering several common elements related to the Middle East question. He wrote down his analysis, and when he was finished, he not only had a solution to the quagmire, he had a story to tell. THE PALESTINE CONSPIRACY foreshadowed the Persian Gulf War by three years, and the resultant Iraq War followed by the Sept. 11 attack.
Spirko states, “The chief threat in the region I see right now is the threat to Saudi Arabia by Iran and Al Qaeda. If Al Qaeda were to overthrow the present royal family in Saudi Arabia, cutting off the oil supply to western nations including Japan and China, it would bring down entire world economies. France and Germany would be begging us to go to war to retake those oil wells. It would be World War III.”
“If such a scenario were to occur,” he reiterates, “France and the European economies would collapse in a matter of weeks.”
“Another looming concern is Iran which wants to develop nuclear weapons to couple with their Shahab 4, 5 & 6 missiles on the drawing boards which have a range to hit London, Israel, all of Europe, southern Russia and the United States. Also, the Iranian government has said it initially had 300 centrifuges to enrich uranium to weapons grade material. They have increased that to 3,000. They will soon increase that again to 10,000 centrifuges,” Spirko says. “They have the additional capacity to add another 20,000 centrifuges in mass production techniques that will enable them to produce at least seven nuclear bombs in about a year. Where did they get these centrifuges?”
Spirko answers that question by stating an Arab proverb, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
“Simply put,” Spirko explains, “they probably got them from Saddam Hussein before the Iraq War started and were probably smuggled out of Iraq and into Iran just like he did his air force of 600 Soviet fighter planes. In other words, he gave them to his former enemy rather than let them be destroyed on the ground.”
“Why would he have done any differently with the 30,000 centrifuges he supposedly had on a decentralized basis inside Iraq before the war?” Spirko asks. “Isn’t it strange that Iran could come up with a nuclear weapons program in about six months to a year when it took the United States six years under the Manhattan Project with 5,000 of the world’s most brilliant scientists like Robert Oppenheimer, Niels Bohr, Seaborg, Einstein, Fermi, and others working on it?”
Another point Spirko makes on the Mideast is that, “It is time for the Israelis and Palestinians to return to the Camp David Peace Talks or some other place, resume where they left off and “freeze in place” the already-agreed-upon negotiating points,” Spirko says.
“And, it’s all related to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict which I said back in 1987 was the crux of my book. It always has been, and always will be until it’s settled,” Spirko says. “That linkage is exactly what Osama Bin Laden stated in a taped message aired the weekend before the election in November of 2004. Whether you believe him or not is beside the point. That’s what’s he told us, and we’d better take that into account.”
Check this clip out where Joe Scarborough tries to compare what Cheney is doing to something Kennedy did in 1960.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=1832
As I see it, this whole question boils down to whether it’s OK to do the same to our guys when they’re captured. How can we justify complaining about that if we do it ourselves? Whatever is made public from this point on, there is no longer any doubt what we’ve done in the name of national security, and it is flat out wrong!!!
While there are laws against torture, the people that we (the United States) are fighting against – do not show respect for things such as the Geneva Convention. On a good day, those same people will torture and maim others as a point of their own justice system. Just because we (the US) do not, has no bearing on what they will do.
Afghanistan and Iraq have vastly different cultures and religions than the US does. If we are to fight in their countries and our military is respecting certain laws of them… then why do we not adopt all of their law?
Bottom line is in a country that sees the adage “an eye for an eye” as law, we should be able to respond in kind. With speed and controlled anger. If we beat our enemy and the other enemy feels like we will not have mercy upon them either, then they will stop attacking us.
Purely psychological.
Next up, torture will be applied to US citizens in order to prevent dissent.
To not pursue policy makers who torture is to approve of torture. To not fully investigate is to ensure it will happen again someday
Cheney must be prosecuted!!!! Whoever at the CIA leaking info to this tyrant should number 1 be fired and number 2 prosecuted. Without question both Cheney’s are pathological liars. I also feel that if they keep it up Bush may come out of the closet and make some damaging comments about that fat ******* Cheney.
No, Obama is Suppressing “Holy Grail” Torture Report That Would Undercut Cheney. Alone with the torture photos.
As far as Cheney is concerned, in the words of Shakespeare: “Methinks doth protest too much”.
It finally dawned on me why Cheney has been pushing so hard for these memos to be released: if he stance on torture isn’t vindicated his whole career will prove to be one horrific lie.
Cheney’s ideals go back to the Nixon administration; Iraq did not inspire his philosophy with regard to torture and military engagement. This is what he’s believed his whole career, and the hawks that supported him during the Bush administration did everything they could to reinforce his views and convince Bush to invade Iraq.
The whole administration should be presented to the International War Crimes Tribunal to be held accountable for their actions.