House GOPer Signals Support For Release Of Torture Intel That Contradicts Cheney
This is potentially significant: A key House Republican is signaling support for the release of a classified CIA report that is expected to reveal that there’s no proof torture foiled any terror attacks — in direct contradiction of Dick Cheney’s claims.
As I’ve been documenting, multiple Republicans have been calling for the selective release of classified info to bolster Cheney’s claim that torture made us safer. But there’s also a key 2004 CIA report being sought by the ACLU and some Dems that reportedly found there’s no proof that torture stopped any attacks.
If that document is released, it could change the debate and dramatically undermine Cheney’s claims.
Now GOP Congressman Pete Hoekstra, the ranking Republican on the intelligence committee, is signaling support for the release of the document.
Hoekstra has been demanding the release of intel that will supposedly show that Dems knew all about the torture program. So I asked Hoekstra spokesperson Jamal Ware if Hoekstra would also call for the CIA doc’s release.
“Congressman Hoekstra supports public release of as much information as possible to give a full, fair, and complete account consistent with national security,” Ware replied.
While that’s not quite a direct demand for the CIA doc, his call for “as much information as possible” goes much farther than any other Republican has. Bottom line: If Republicans keep demanding the release of classified info to help Cheney’s cause, it will get tougher for them to not support the release of this document, too — which means we may finally settle the question of whether torture “worked.”
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Outside of some event (such as a seriously worsening pandemic) I don’t think this torture issue can be very easily hidden away now. But there is no small amount of institutional inertia to overcome.
It seems to me that this will be an interesting test of this enterprise we are all engaged in here online, a social/political factor which wasn’t in place during Iran/Contra.
Common sense dictates torture works to damage the torturer as he inflicts pain and suffering upon the tortured while continually questioning whether info obtained through torturous means is worth the tortured and torturing future he has now tortuously embraced! -Kevo
anyone seen sgwhiteinfla lately?
Greg – I was a tad worried too but he’s posting currently at Swampland.
Perhaps he was fined for fleeting expletives.
Sup Greg? I got sidetracked yesterday with the Specter stuff.
LOL good one Bernie
sg – pleased your all in one piece and unflued.
I was thinking this morning about Specter and the GOP’s future. Never in my life (Israel and I are the same age) have I seen a political party so intent upon self-immolation. Who’d have guessed that The End of Days would be so localized? Small-tent Armageddon.
Bernie
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I think Specter himself said it best yesterday. The Club for Growth isn’t shy about saying they don’t care about losing general elections yet the GOP has embraced them in a bear hug. On its face that seems like lunacy and yet its exactly what they are doing. When he ran through the names of sitting Republicans that the Club for Growth had taken down in a primary only to lose in the general I felt like writing them out a big check and sending them a thank you card. But you have to wonder if some of his words didn’t reasonate with other GOP politicians who may not come out and say it but are now worried that their party is even a viable one going forward.
sg – It’s a valid worry. They are no longer viable as a national party, which even Cornyn half-acknowledged yesterday. The Brooks/Collins inter-column piece today at the Times is pretty much spot-on (and very funny, thanks to Collins).
Woody once cracked wise that he was “at two with Nature”. The GOP is now at two with America. The Norquist virus has killed its host and I figure two more electoral shellackings before something of value emerges.
Bernie
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What they have done is effectively killed any chance that a “thinker” can get elected in their party. The reason being is that they have put themselves in a box now where every solution or idea has to fit into the prism of “conservative’ dogma. So there might be a Republican who has a great idea to solve the problems of everyday people but if it involves say raising taxes or say spending money then they will reject them and their idea. I do believe that you have to have some core beliefs that line up with a party to be in the party but there also has to be a lot of leeway when it comes to governance. They still don’t seem to see that they can’t win with just their base. I am sure they can organize some great parties and get togethers but they are going to get their a$$es kicked in every national election. Pretty soon even those southern Republican voters are going to get tired of their state being near the bottom of every measure of achievement and they will start rejecting the party too. Unfortunately for them, by the time that starts happening I think they will be too far gone to salvage the party.
sg – agree with all but for final sentence. As you know, there’s been a lot of frenetic calls in the loud parts of the conservative movement for a break-away third party. I don’t see that happening. The real power in the Republican universe is business interests and money and they won’t be well served by the disarray and time period involved in such a drastic reformulation. Of course, the easiest immediate path for them is to shift their lobbying levers over to the Dems and work to further corrupt that side as well. But that isn’t a happy home for them with its counter-intending constituencies. So my guess is that the GOP will do the desert thing (without Moses) for a while, then slowly get their poop together. But I could be wrong, of course. The Canadian example certainly suggests the possibility you suggest but I think the dynamics are significantly different in the two countries.
Bernie
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Here is the problem, in order to fix a problem you first have to recognize that you have one and what it is. The GOP has convinced themselves that their problem is that they were too liberal, a fact that is mind boggling. For that reason they are going to continue to purge any but the most radical of their elements from their ranks. So how does the Republican party rebuild once Michele Bachmann is their standard bearer? What I think will happen is either after next year’s blood bath the moderates will attempt to take back the party, OR the moderates will form the first viable third party in this country. Just look at the percentages of independents in this country. Its the biggest in decades and its going to continue to get bigger. There are people who realize the GOP is much too fringe and yet still don’t want to be a Democrat. Sooner or later a party will rise up to give those people a voice. Id say give it about 8 to 10 years and unless there is a sea change within the GOP, you will see this new party come about.
First off, let me predict the 2012 race. The GOP ticket will be Palin and Bachmann and their slogan will be “Teeth-n’-Tits”.
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“Independents” is a tricky category heading. There’s a wide breach between the tea-baggers/freepers and the folks simonizing their chevys over in the cul de sac. I’m not sure I can imagine right now how this disparate demographic can be forged into anything viable nationally. And there’s the perhaps more critical aspect of the seriously independent “take my gun and I’ll rip your throat out” crowd falling into line with anyone’s agenda which isn’t their “leave me alone or I’ll rip your throat out” thing. No alignment with the religious crowd foreseeable there. And I doubt business would consider them anything but trouble except in the minimal role of bullet-catching pawns. I can’t imagine the boardroom at Boeing cheering at some future rise in militia-values, even if some subsidiary does well on the ammo sales.
A lot probably depends on how the economy goes over the next five years, it seems to me. It could be relatively chaotic and then god knows how things will fall out. But assuming a relatively even keel, my guess is that financial interests will drag the party in directions prudent (from their perspective, that is).
But I smoke weed and might have it wrong.
ps…nice chatting, by the way.
It just occurred to me, sg, that you might be just the fellow I’m looking for in a prospective business venture.
I’m sure we both envision the future unfolding which will leave the religious right out in the cruel and lonely margins. Their zest for victimhood aside, it’s not a place of enduring comfort for them.
I’m presently working on the prototype of a life-sized and downfilled Savior with big squooshy arms. In those moments of dire doubt, He will be always near and available. “Squeeze-Us-Jesus”.
Ya in?
Bernie writes, The GOP ticket will be Palin and Bachmann and their slogan will be “Teeth-n’-Tits”. Generally, I like your humor, but this is a little reductive, not to say sexist. Laugh at these women as we do, it’s not about the way we can stereotype them by gender. The problem is their “minds.”
AllButCertain – Guilty. Sorry.
Bernie/SG: Thanks for a great exchange. Ironic that the Republican Party may be downsized by the Club for GROWTH.
It’s been fun reading these exchanges, but I’d like to get back to Hoekstra. What’s in it for him? Calling for the release of information that contradicts Cheney won’t make him any friends in his party. I guess he feels free to do this because he’s planning to run for governor in 2010, but I still don’t see that there’s any advantage to it. Is it possible that he’s doing this because–OMG!–he thinks it’s the right thing to do? Nah, I don’t think so. Lost my head there for a second. Can anyone come up with a more cynical, and more likely true, explanation?
Does anybody else think it is interesting that Cheney and Republicans are demanding ’selective’ release of documents to prove that Torture did help?
Let’s assume that Torture did absolutely nothing in regards to valuable ‘actionable’ intelligence gathering. Then the Republicans move is brilliant. Because even if the CIA wanted to release it, there isn’t anything to be released. I think Cheney is exactly banking on this scenario.
Since Republicans – especially the current crop – are happy to believe in conspiracy theories, they’ll latch onto this one. It is very hard to prove a negative. They can comfortably keep claiming that Obama refuses to release the documents that will prove them right.
On the other hand, if Obama releases documents that show that there was no actionable intelligence gained, they’ll claim he’s playing partisan politics.
It’s a win-win situation for their base. After all, it’s pretty much down to the hardcore Republican supporters who still believe Cheney’s bullshit. The scary part is that those supporters truly believe in it, it’s not even a question about finding out the truth. They already have made up their mind what it is supposed to be, and will not accept any other outcome.
Margaret in NJ – I don’t know much about this fellow but the Plumline’s profile on him suggests his push for transparency in this case has precedent examples.
bruno – It’s possible, of course. But my guess would be something different. Specifically, that some set of circumstances led Cheney’s office (or perhaps Rumsfeld’s) to whip up some documents that could arguably counter whatever threat (a PR problem or a legal jeopardy) they’d just encountered or which they saw as possible.
Bernie – How naive of me. I could have never imagined Cheney making up things to fit his world view. LOL You’ve certainly got a point there. I bet Cheney is banking on one of his ‘man-size’ safes to have the perfect proof. Signed by Libby and Addington, to add credibility to the documents.
English isnt my first language but you made me understand clearly, thank you.