GOP Leaders’ National Security Attacks On Obama Increasingly At Odds With Defense Professionals
A striking trend worth watching: The national security attacks GOP leaders are lobbing at Obama are putting them increasingly at odds with former allies in Washington’s permanent Defense establishment, many of whom are agreeing with Obama and sometimes even condemning the GOP attacks as baseless. Consider:
* Guantanamo: Senator Mitch McConnell and many other Republicans have condemned Obama’s plan to close Guantanamo, with McConnell recently saying that it’s about “making us popular in Europe.
But Colin Powell supports closing Guantanamo, and James Baker does too, saying it’s “a very serious blot upon our reputation.” And General David Petraeus agrees, saying that “Gitmo has caused us problems” and has “been used by the enemy against us.”
* Mirandizing terrorists: House GOP leader John Boehner condemned Obama today for allegedly Mirandizing terrorists, based on a report that FBI agents are reading detainees in Afghanistan their Miranda rights (the Justice Department claims no policy change and says it only happens in isolated cases). John Cornyn also attacked on this today.
But Petraeus said yesterday that he has “no concerns at all” about the practice, adding: “This is the FBI doing what the FBI does.”
* Torture: It’s opposed by Petraeus and Powell.
* Funding for the IMF: GOP leaders Eric Cantor and Boehner have repeatedly said that Obama’s request for Congressional funding for the International Monetary Fund could help terrorists, because some cash could go to “state sponsors of terror.”
But Defense Secretary Robert Gates and National Security Adviser James Jones say the opposite: That not funding the IMF could increase global terrorism and endanger our security. Condoleezza Rice, Henry Kissinger and Powell also back the IMF funding.
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We have ourselves a trend. And there will be more. It’s a clear sign that Obama’s national security positions (for good or for ill) are squarely in the mainstream of the D.C. Defense establishment. And it shows that the GOP’s need to attack those positions has forced Republican officials outside that mainstream, isolating them further and putting them at odds with its onetime allies in that establishment.
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I just commented on Petrayus’ position regarding Gitmo. This is also Gates’ position. Anyone who is not for closing Gitmo is also against Petrayus and Gates who both know better for our troops and our position in a matter of National Defense I would guess than many of those out there picking fights. Anyone who is against the time line of Gitmo is against organized planning. I always set time goals. One year seems pretty reasonable. I can think of some pretty substantial things this country has completed in a year that makes relocating prisoners seem like kids play. The only thing that will hold this up is the obstructionist GOP and this is their goal. Any goal Obama doesn’t meet is a win for them in their eyes, regardless if people die because of it.
“Torture: It’s opposed by Petraeus and Powell.”
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Cute, Greg. I’ve heard of a few Repubs that support EITs but haven’t heard of too many that support ‘torture.’
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Even the Bush administration wanted to close Gitmo – responsibly and not on a self-imposed, artificial timeframe.
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If the DoJ would clarify what exactly is going on with the Mirandizing this might not be an issue. It is appropriate to Mirandize some detainees (e.g., those who seek to harm our troops after being detained) but the DoJ is not making it at all clear just what is happening.
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OTOH, as a conservative I have been very pleased that Obama’s military policies have been not nearly so radically left wing as was hoped for by his liberal supporters during the campaign. Good job so far – it’s the domestic policies that bite it.
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This is politics – I don’t think the GOP is going to lose much support from their allies in the establishment over this kind of grandstanding.
Now this is the reporting I like to see coming from Greg.
I’m starting to realize that this may be Greg’s blog, but sbj threadjacks every thread with nonsense and obfuscation. Every new thread is subject to his parsing of phrases that gets everyone here ginned up and arguing with him/her instead of whatever the subject is about.
“If the DOJ would clarify…Mirandizing” isn’t worthy of a reply, we all know what Mirandizing is… “EIT” IS torture, EIT is Orwellian newspeak, we all know it and this character drags the debate back around to it…the establishment is the only reason the GOP still exists; the establishment treated the left as no-nothing weaklings even with an almost tied Senate and close partisan divides in the House from 1994 until 2006, and even then still didn’t treat Pelosi and Reid with the deference they gave to Hastert, DeLay, and Frist (why no hating on Steny I wonder?). If Democrats had gotten down to such a hardened rump caucus after 2002 and 2004, the Republicans would have privatized the Department of Defense entirely and rammed through the rest of their heinous social agenda, and W didn’t win in an electoral college landslide either time! Now we have to listen to these WATBs holler about being scared of terrorists living next door? The same terrorists that they wanted rounded up and stopped?
Apparently the arch of the universe is bending away from justice and towards crazy…
I keep hearing that the IMF is just a back-door bailout of European banks (mostly from FDL posters and commenters). Why should we put money into this? Someone please explain why anyone should support the IMF. Serious question.
The way to deal with sbj (and I agree with williamc) is to scroll….scroll….scroll.
@williamc: I ain’t hijacking, I’m commenting and responding. I didn’t ask for Miranidizing to be clarified, we want to know who is being Mirandized, how many, and why. The DoJ is not answering questions about this. I don’t think the use of EITs is torture – it certainly hasn’t been proven. I don’t have to sit idly by and watch you try to twist something into CW when I don’t agree.
sbj, I’m not one of those people that believe that “we need a vibrant opposition party”, I’ve seen what conservatism is and does on the ground to destroy poor and middle class people’s lives. I also am a historian, I remember the past; I remember what being marginalized by crazy people who argue that black is actually charcoal, blue is actually navy, and GW Bush is actually a genuis. I don’t deal in conventional wisdom, I deal in facts, and you don’t ever have any.
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I’m not your huckleberry.
@williamc: “A Justice Department spokesman told the Weekly Standard Thursday that the department will not be answering any questions about the number of high-level detainees who have been Mirandized since Barack Obama took office five months ago.”
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That’s a fact, okay?
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Sheesh.
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sbj’s feelings have been hurt – I’ll not be posting anything else today. Commence name calling in 5, 4, 3 . . .
Here is what sbj wants. He wants the FBI to be “hard nosed tough guys” who end up f*cking up any chance at convicting the terrorists they interrogate because they don’t advise them of their rights. Because then sbj figures we will have to build more GITMOS/dungeons to keep the terrorist there indefinitely even though it goes against every thing America has ever stood for. And why does sbj want this? Because its politics. He doesn’t care that it might actually make us less safe and an even more attractive target to extremists around the globe who will be outraged at that kind of foreign policy. Nope, just as long as it makes Pres Obama “look bad” because the FBI is actually doing its job thats good enough for sbj and every other wingnut. See not every conservative is a wingnut. There are actually conservatives out there who don’t mind having an intellectually honest debate over the issues. But wingnuts use a by any means necessary tact to lie and attack for political gain no matter what the actual real world blowback will be.
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Its a d@mn shame that the people who engage in the most honest criticism of Pres Obama and some of his policies HAVE to come from the left for the most part. Wingnuts would rather just keep throwing sh*t at the wall hoping something sticks than actually focus on whats real and what isn’t. But the problem is most of the people in this country, even those in the middle, have gotten hip to the game. There are too many ways to fact check the wingnut rhetoric nowadays. Google and YouTube might be the biggest reason why the Republican Party continues to slide in the years to come. Just check out the Virginia governors race. Before the Dem primary a black ballot had the Republican candidate winning by double digits. And because of this Repubs started talking big like this race would be the harbinger of their “comeback”. Now the poll numbers have come out and Deeds is almost up double digits. Kinda like the Tedisco/Murphy race.
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Until you guys get a new play book and start actually dealing with facts it doesn’t even make sense to debate you. Much easier just to find the facts to refute you and after that ignore you. Just keep on with your parroting of Malkin, Limbaugh, Goldfarb, Erickson, Morrissey et al and see just how irrelevant your party can become.
One last thing.
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http://mediamatters.org/research/200906110019
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welcome back sg! I only started posting because you weren’t around kicking butt and taking names anymore…and you said all the stuff I was going to say.
Right on on the President too; none of the stuff coming from the right makes sense to sane people. And O apparently is leaning on Progressives to pass the supplemental….what’s he gonna do, go in to bright blue districts and prop up more blue dogs? He and rahmbo need to get with the program and hit the people hitting him and not the people “making him do it”.
btw sbj, I want your feelings to hurt, you’ve been hurting my brain all day.
williamc
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Well from what I have seen you have definitely been kicking some butt of your own. Ill be back Monday hopefully but I just wanted to drop in for a minute and add my 2 ents.
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As for the supplemental I think that Pres Obama for all of his team of rivals mantra was remiss in not putting someone in his administration who has civil libertarian leanings. His Sec of State is somewhat of a hawk and so is the rest of his National Security team. And the rest of the people around him are a blue dog (Rahm) a politico (Axelrod) and spokespersons (Gibby). Thats why I keep saying that we need to find a way to get Dawn Johnsen confirmed so Obama will at least have one person in his ear telling him to hold true to some of his promises on the campaign trail about transparency. The supplemental would have been find IMO if not for that noxious Lieberman/Graham amendment to keep the photos classified. The members of the House have to get reelected next year, many of them in liberal districts. So how could they go home and campaign when they voted for something like that? At some point if Republicans ever get their sh*t together what they will say is that the Democratic incumbents are voting just like Republicans on a lot of stuff any way so why not just vote for a Republican? By endorsing that amendment specifically and the whole look forward not back excuse for not investigating Bush Co I really believe that Obama is opening his flank up trying to get new voters to vote for him that never will while losing some of his base that he is going to need in 4 years. I personally am trying to give him some room to operate and wait before I make any judgements but I can definitely see why a lot of people are frustrated with him and the question has to be for what? How many people will he attract by covering everything up vs how many he will lose? I don’t even think it will be close. But again who can you see in Pres Obama’s administration that you think might be telling him he is making the wrong move with covering this stuff up? The closest I think I could come to naming someone would be Eric Holder but I don’t think even he is probably giving that much pushback.
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We need to start a “Free Dawn Johnsen” facebook group!
wow…i am going to have to think about this over the weekend…it does seem like sbj has an argumentative issue with every single post the greg is putting up and come to think of it…i have been going back and forth a lot more with sbj over the last week…interesting…i didn’t think about it until just now when it was pointed out…also, i agree 100% with sgwhite…the reason the gop is in such trouble is they are still playing from the Atwater book…where they can say anything and people just believe it…nowadays when someone with the gop makes some sort of ridiculous statement, the public is easily able to fact check it on their own…i don’t think they quite know what to do because the Atwater (then Rove) thing worked so well for them…just think about how far the “information superhighway” has come in just the past five years…we all have access to old statements on video and in print thanks to the internet, combine that with changing demographics of the electorate and the abysmal way that Republican’s have run things over the last eight years and you have a very interesting long, uphill battle to deal with if you are the gop.
msmolly
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The IMF may be a back door bailout to European Banks but I doubt it. Bigger than all of that the IMF kind of a central bank to the world and it enables a lot of aid money to go to some of the most impoverished areas of the world if its requested. That is why we need to send them the money because just like most other kinds of crime, terrorism usually springs out of desperate circumstances. I really don’t see anything wrong with pledging these funds at all but I know some people will cast enough doubt around it because the truth is they don’t want the supplemental itself passed because they don’t agree with the war in Af/Pak.
It was wonderful to see a great man parachute jump on his 85th birthday. Happy Birthday 41 and many more. His interview he said lets historians determine legacy and gave praise to his son for not criticizing Obama which he said was wrong. You must not know how Obama operates as CIC to think he does not take their advice verbatim. Drawdown in Iraq is not Obama’s idea, it is the joint chiefs. He campaigned on 9 months, it will done done when ground command says the situation warrants it approximately 3 years. 10,000 more in Afghan theater request became 19,000 and more as appropriated force enlargement gets trained. Old man Bush, this great president had us pay only 5% of Desert Storm’s cost and had his new world order with 140 countries in the Kuwait theater. He stopped drilling offshore and Anwar, preserved the Everglades and unfortunately did not follow his own voodoo economics advice until his third year with Clinton getting the effect of budget cuts and tax increases balancing the economy. If our troops did any wrong during Desert Storm, no one knew about it. When Nicaragua was beaten, he asked Noriega to take the money and run, he said your guys set me up to wash drug money with a piece for the freedom fighters. Colin Powell cornered him in a church and his drug money laundering days were over. 41 always makes my day whether the proud of my son for not criticizing, to the ribbing McCain got during the campaign when asked about Obama’s popularity in Germany, the old man jibed McCain with “I kinda jealous.” God bless Bush 41.
you are right Jenn and you too sg. We have to look at what has happened in the past few years; Overton’s window has been thrown open so wide that torture is not a right-wing value. We should be CRUSHING these imbeciles with our majorities in both houses (we even managed to somehow elect an AirAmerica host to the US Senate) yet we are fighting every day to remind people that these free-market pirates have crashed our ship of state on Mars and they shouldn’t be listened to.
Stay Vigilant, especially on torture and health care, the wolves are at the door…
@ sg, I agree with your IMF assessment, and I would be that’s why the Repubs don’t want to give the IMF the money, it might help the poor somewhere, and you know how they hate that someone poor might get something somewhere that they didn’t deserve…
come on, all, weekend open thread posted…
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/terrorism/weekend-open-thread-poll-shows-gop-opposes-sotomayor-at-own-peril/
have a good one!
Does this surprise anybody? For all its faults, the military has a mission-oriented culture in which every battle is scrutinized and reconsidered solely on the merits of victory. The Pentagon brass recognizes that Bush doctrines have led to anything BUT victory.
The GOP, on the other hand, has a theology-based world view. Statements, opinions, and decisions are scrutinized solely on their merits of ideological purity.
These are incompatible cultures, and this was always going to happen.
Question for WilliamC. Since EIT supposedly literally means enhanced interrogation techniques, does that mean the police should no longer use “good cop, bad cop” on criminals? I personally like the idea of using a working truth serum if someone could come up with something with no bad after effects. Dose ‘em ask the questions, get the answers, move on.
I haven’t had much time to comment this week, but I’ve looked in enough to find sbj an irritating, pipsqueak highjacker who insistently tries to drag threads into oblivion.