The Morning Plum
* Rahm Emanuel lays out the new schedule: We’re doing health care sometime later, after jobs bill and financial regulatory reform.
* With Obama meeting House GOPers today in big show of bipartisan outreach, Republicans are grappling with a thorny strategic conundrum: Is the only way to shed the “Party of No” label to stop saying No to everything?
* Conservatives grudgingly accept the reality that forcing GOP candidates to hew to a rigid set of right-wing principles might not help the party grow nationally.
* With Dems telegraphing weakness by signaling uncertainty about Gitmo, Senate GOP will force Dems into tough vote on bill blocking Federal funds for court trials of terror suspects.
* Also in that link: WaPo notes that the Dem reluctance to fund Gitmo’s closure means Obama’s options for closing the facility are “dwindling.” Another GOP victory on horizon?
* Meanwhile, the White House may move the 9/11 trial out of Manhattan, which, fairly or not, will be painted by some in the media as another loss for the administration.
* Labor unions mulling primary challenges to key Blue Dogs and “centrist” Dem Senators. Keep an eye on this one.
* No one could have predicted that Republicans would declare victory if Obama based his policies on their ideology and world view! As Dave Weigel reports, that’s exactly what they’re doing: Taking credit for Obama’s spending freeze.
* Those hoping to rally the public with a campaign to kill filibusters have a problem: Only one in four Americans knows that 60 votes are required to break them. Takeaway: Dems have not successfully communicated the depth of GOP obstructionism to the public.
* And Dan Pfeiffer tells Politico that the White House will step up efforts to spotlight GOP obstructionism, but this quote may irk folks a bit:
“With 59 Senators, it is mathematically impossible for Democrats to do everything on their own.”
Some will respond that it’s only mathematically impossible if Dems accept the filibuster as an inevitable fact of life, rather than something that might be campaigned against and changed. But the White House doesn’t appear to have an appetite for doing that.
What else is happening?
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Virginia:
“Conservatives in this country seem determined to prevent good things from happening becuase they know that people will like those things and they will thus become politically sacrosanct.”
It is only your subjective value judgment that nationalized health care is a good thing. If you have kept an open mind to what our neighbors in Canada and across the pond in Britain have had to say, you would realize that this is not necessarily so.
In some ways, nationalized health care MAY be a good thing for the citizenry, but it is ALWAYS a good thing for government bureaucrats.
Bilgeman, I’m glad we can all agree now that nationalized health care may be good for the citizenry.
It only took like five months of bickering to come to that conclusion.
See, the POTUS’s SOTU worked.
Greg
All I had was the Stein piece. There’s a couple of other links embedded but not sure they’ll do any good. Call him?
Bilgey,
You worry too much about what happens in the USA, for an avowed Confederate States Secessionist. Begone Non-American, and fret no more.
Didn’t the SCOTUS just hand KSM a right to be heard? I think so.
That damn decision gives foreign citizens the same free speech rigthts we have. If it’s ok to try the abortion doctor terrorist-murderder as a murderer, what’t the difference?
The SCOTUS just made one of the strangest and broadest interpretations of free speech imaginable – if I was KSM’s lawyer, I’d argue the s*h*i*t out of it.
What on God’s green Earth are you talking about?
1. Citizens United says NOTHING about rights of foreigners.
2. Citizens United has NOTHING to do with criminal due process.
3. Whether is “okay” to try KSM as a civilian isn’t the issue. The question is how he SHOULD be treated. The abortion doctor murderer is a US citizen who committed a premediated murder in Kansas. There is no option to try him before a military commission.
4. If you were KSM’s lawyer, he would have a babbling fool for a lawyer. He has been granted civilian trial and due process rights. He’ll be allowed as a matter of due process to say whatever he wants to at trial within the rules of evidence. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with it.
“the economy should then be back on it’s feet, and unemployment figures low enough, that the country will be restored enough for the Republicans to destroy it once more.”
[extremelysicklylaughter] I sure wish that wasn’t so true.
“1. Citizens United says NOTHING about rights of foreigners.
2. Citizens United has NOTHING to do with criminal due process.”
And you know nothing about making arguments.
Re: what former CIA agent John Kiriakou is now claiming, in his book, about his knowledge of the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah:
Since the CIA guy lied to Brian Ross of ABC, about having witnessed the water-boarding, then there is no reason to believe that he was even told about it, like he now claims.
Why would anyone lie about having witnessed it, if the truth were that he heard about it from some colleagues.
The constitution also doesn’t say its illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater, or to make death threats to elected officials, etc etc etc.
The First Amendment is not absolute.
True in a certain respect (depends you frame the right) but irrelevant.
The claim asserted (by Reefer) was that the idea that corporations are persons and have any rights is “clearly repudiated” in the Constitution?
That is a preposterous claim. If you want to argue that a corporation’s free speech rights are not absolute, any more than an individual’s, that’s fine and not under question. Citizens United does not say otherwise.
Liam – the whole edifice that they constructed to try to justify what they did was always just papier mache and matchsticks and it’s all come apart.
And you know nothing about making arguments.
I know enough that I just demolished yours.
Liam – starting at the foundation of that program: those two “psychologists” who didn’t have a clue if what they postulated about their torture program was actually valid and it wasn’t, just putting aside the fact that it was totally illegal and unethical to start with.
They were phonies. Everyone involved has been phony except the very real enlisted personnel who took the fall.
And of course, the people who were tortured. That was real.
mike from arlington:
“Bilgeman, I’m glad we can all agree now that nationalized health care may be good for the citizenry.”
Hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, y’know, but that doesn’t mean that you buy one and put it on your wall, does it?
And coming from a guy who correctly perceives in the context of Social Security that essentially the government cannot be trusted to keep its’ promises, I find your Socialized Medicine “True Believer” conversion VERY peculiar.
mike from arlington,
How is social security being abused in your opinion, and what reforms are needed? Who has blocked them?
Liam:
“You worry too much about what happens in the USA, for an avowed Confederate States Secessionist. Begone Non-American, and fret no more.”
Hey, I have several friends who live in Florida, just wanted to say “Thank You” for helping fund the Sunshine State portion of the High-Speed Confederate Railroad…chump.
If it was such a great thing, why couldn’t it have been built with a private capital and state-funded public partnership?
Bilgey – not arguing, just asking:
“If it was such a great thing, why couldn’t it have been built with a private capital and state-funded public partnership?”
It probably could have been – but hasn’t been. What’s wrong with the government building it and running it? They do this all over Europe and it’s wonderful. And in Japan and other parts of Asia – why is it that conservatives keep wanting to hold the country back?
Bilge,
That’s easy. Because only government central planners can efficiently allocate capital and economic resources. Haven’t you read Marx and his progeny?
Look, Bilgey – I know you’re a troll, but if there is a person behind that troll, can that person explain how it would have been better if our highway system had been built by private enterprise? We’d still be paying tolls to go 5 miles in any direction if everything was privatized.
Some things that are the greatest good for the greatest number are not always the most profitable. So inasmuch as it’s a very definite public good to have this rail system, why isn’t it the proper sphere of government, like it is almost everywhere else?
Ben Franklin must have been a Marxist pre-Marx -he understood this role of government – he invented our postal system. He was a major public education advocate.
Was Ben really a commie?
It’s not either-or. THere’s a vast landscape in between.
“what happened to health insurance stocks after Scott Brown’s win? did they go up? or down?”
I’m not sure about health insurance stocks specifically, but after Republican Brown’s win on Tuesday, stocks went down on Wednesday, Thursday, and again of Friday.
In the three days after Republican Scott Brown was elected the Dow Jones average dropped over 500 points.
Bush/Cheney guy, Paulson got on his knees, actually did, and begged the Democrats to fund the TARP rescue plan.
How was that for letting Private Initiative provide the solution.
Tena:
“It probably could have been – but hasn’t been. What’s wrong with the government building it and running it? They do this all over Europe and it’s wonderful. And in Japan and other parts of Asia – why is it that conservatives keep wanting to hold the country back?”
I’ll respond by asking why Liberals always want to make America more like Europe and Asia? I’ve been to both continents enough to realize that neither are even close to being utopias. America is different…it was MEANT to be.
Now, the problem with the,(Federal),government funding it is that this line will be entirely within the borders of the state of Florida.
This is swell if you’re a Floridian and live in Tampa or Orlando,(or in between), but what benefits accrue to the taxpayer in Montana whose income will be taxed to pay for it?
And the precedent it sets is a bad one, because you, who live in a low tax-low services state like Texas, can then be taxed to subsidize the high-tax high-benefit states like California, (for example), whose model has manifestly failed badly.
Doing this interferes with the market process of “creative destruction” which would otherwise force Californians, (again, for example), to reform their own state government.
Essentially, our Federal Republic is stuctured so that each state can find it’s own answers to the set of problems that are peculiar to that state…not to be rubber-stamps for the “One Big Answer” that cometh from Washington.
If Florida sees a need for high-speed rail, then why do the Feds have to get financially involved in the intra-state segments of it at all? (aside from the purely regulatory aspect pertaining to matters of gauge and safety and standards of the rolling stock, and perhaps the inter-connectibility to the systems that may be built in Georgia and Alabama and elsewhere).
Back later. I have to go run a few errants. I have the car warming up. It is as cold as a Golddigger’s Neiman Marcus clad arse, in Wasilla, around here today.
“Please show us all where the Constitution says that the First Amendment doesn’t apply to corporations or corporate speech.”
The First Amendment ONLY APPLIES TO PEOPLE (breathing human beings).
That the Fascist Five right wing activist Supreme Court Justices FALSELY rewrote legislation to deliberately misinterpret the Constitution to serve their Corporate Puppetmasters doesn’t change the fact that:
The Constitution and it’s Amendment ONLY APPLY TO PEOPLE.
And again: “Corporations” are NOT people. Corporations are property.
What’s particularly perverse is that the Fascists that falsely claim that “Corporations” are people are usually the ones that claim that gay “People” don’t even have the same rights as the “Corporations”.
“Essentially, our Federal Republic is stuctured so that each state can find it’s own answers to the set of problems that are peculiar to that state…not to be rubber-stamps for the “One Big Answer” that cometh from Washington.”
You always come back to three things and they are all philosophical: 1. we’re different; 2. taxes; 3. states rights.
I am not crossing that bridge in your direction to meet you half way on that – you won’t come halfway here either.
Why are you here? You know very well that our views here are diametrically opposed to yours.
Why do ratwingers troll leftwing boards so persistently? Leftwingers don’t constantly troll ratwing boards. We used to do hit and runs, but that’s different.
So what’s the point of your constant propaganda for a viewpoint that is repugnant to most of us?
Virginia:
The main point about NHS and other national health systems is that they become politically sacrosanct for a reason. People like them.
Not necessarily true. It can also be that people cannot imagine, or are afraid of, anything different.
I lived in England for 7 years and I can tell you that the NHS is the subject of endless complaints. Long waiting times, dirty hospitals, poor service, shortages of doctors…the list is endless. People there do not “like” it in the sense of thinking “Gee, what a great health care system we have.” They “like” it in the sense of thinking “Well, it may be bad but at least it’s free.” Of course, it is not in fact “free”, but since they don’t pay at the point of delivery, it seems free, which they like. The benefits are visible, while the costs are hidden. This may entice people to “like” the system. Afterall, who doesn’t like getting something for nothing? But it doesn’t mean it is a better system. And it certainly doesn’t make it a just system.
Tena | January 29th, 2010 at 10:35 am
And of course, the people who were tortured. That was real.
–
and the Americans that were killed by these terrorists was REAL also! Would you call that torture having to jump out of the burning wtc to your death?
This who civilian trial is nothingm more than holders law firm getting to make $$$$ off of these trials and to allow their buddy terrorists, whom many of holders appointees have defended to have a platform to do what Obama and progressives do best and that is show their hate for America.
This decision alone shows how dangerous Obama and Holder are when it comes to protecting this nation. Hopefully we will survive without another major attack and if we don’t you can bet your bottom dollar the dems will never EVER be trusted again to run this country.
Tena:
“Look, Bilgey – I know you’re a troll, but if there is a person behind that troll, can that person explain how it would have been better if our highway system had been built by private enterprise? We’d still be paying tolls to go 5 miles in any direction if everything was privatized.”
Oh no. There’s no person behind the handle…I’m troll all the way to the bone.
The Inetrstate Highway Syatem, to which you refer, was planned from its’ inception to be “interstate”.
One of the reasons that a need was seen for it was that the old Federal highway system, (which had been state roads that got federalized with nifty new signs), no longer served the needs of the growing interstate economy.
It’s become something of a cottage industry to decry the “devastation” that the interstae highways “caused” when they bypassed towns that had grown up along, say, Route 66.
What isn’t highlighted is that every little burgh along these highways decided for itself how wide the road should be and what the speed limit is.
Drive US 50 through Loudoun County VA, and you’ll see WHY Interstate 66 was punched through well away from any towns…you go from traffic light to traffic light, from 45mph to 25 mph in places like Middleburg and Upperville,(these are delightful little “Hunt Country” towns, but I’m not impressed if I’m heading somewhere else, and am slowed down by the West Pig Knuckle Town Council’s Traffic Ordinance).
There IS a role for the Federal government, and only a fool would say that there is not. What we are arguing about is where and to what extent.
“I am not crossing that bridge in your direction to meet you half way on that – you won’t come halfway here either”
So fine…build your “Railroad Bridge to Nowhere”, but do it with your own state’s funds, m’kay?
“Why are you here? You know very well that our views here are diametrically opposed to yours.”
Did it ever occur to you that I am the one crossing a bridge?
And I do enjoy the freak-show that the Moonbat Sweat-Lodge so predictably becomes.
No whacky notion is too “out there”, as long as it’s delivered by the “right” people and couched in the “right” language.
You goofs have even converted Osama bin-Laden to moonbattery, according to this latest audiotape,(if it’s real), he blames the USA for “Climate Change”.
It’s so absurd that it’s absolutely delicious…”Al Qaeda goes Green!”.
Only the Almighty could write s*h*i*t this funny!
I am not crossing that bridge in your direction to meet you half way on that – you won’t come halfway here either.
—
There is no half way about it. It’s the way the US Constitution has layed out the law of the land. You want to ignore States Rights then you need to take a hike!
Soon you will learn the real meaning of States rights as more and more States enforce the 10th Admendment to save themselves from the destructive Federal Government bankrupty not only the country but also every damn state in this Union.
yeah okay – you could have stopped right at “I’m troll to the bone.”
Yep you both are.
[setphaserto'ignore']
Tena:
“yeah okay – you could have stopped right at “I’m troll to the bone.””
Uh-huh. You asked with a modicum of civility, and I answered with same.
You don’t like or agree with my arguments, so you consign me once again to troll-life under the bridge that you won’t cross.
You really aren’t a serious person about any of these issues. The reason YOU are here is to be “popular”, and while it’s a free country, and you’re perfectly welcome to inflict yourself on anyone willing to tolerate you, I would rather you not work out your unresolved high school issues using the vehicle of government policies.
“[setphaserto'ignore']”
Set shields to: “Pity”
Tena:
explain how it would have been better if our highway system had been built by private enterprise?
The interstate highway system was built for defense purposes, so of course it was better paid for by the government.
It’s a fact. Trolls LOVE terrorism as a subject… Because they LOVE to be terrorized! Their entire worldview is built around a militant approach to everything. They are constantly in battle. Terrorism is like a constant state of warfare because you are constantly on edge because you never know when terrorists will strike. Terrorism makes Republicans feel right at home, but makes otherwise normal/sensible people act like Republicans.
# Scott C. | January 29th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Tena:
explain how it would have been better if our highway system had been built by private enterprise?
The interstate highway system was built for defense purposes, so of course it was better paid for by the government.
……………….
You just pulled that big lie out off your arse. It was not put in the Defense Budget, and we defeated both Germany and Japan before it was build.
It was built to accommodate interstate commerce, and to permit the growing number of car owners to travel around the country. Ever hear of National Parks, and the amount of visitors who drive all around the country to visit them.
Liam:
“You just pulled that big lie out off your arse. It was not put in the Defense Budget, and we defeated both Germany and Japan before it was build.
It was built to accommodate interstate commerce, and to permit the growing number of car owners to travel around the country. Ever hear of National Parks, and the amount of visitors who drive all around the country to visit them.”
No,Scott C. is right about that. I you look at maps old enough, the title was the “National Defense Interstate Highway System”.
It was patterned after the Germ,an autobahns, which were themselves patterned after the Pennsylvania and New Jersey Turnpikes and the Santa Monica Freeway.
How MUCH of their use for “National Defense” was always debatable, but you have to recall that during the darkest days of the Cold War in the Eisenhower Administration, one way to guarantee funding was to glue the words “National Defense” to your pork-barrel.
Kind of like today, with “Homeland Security” or “Antiterrorism”.
“Antiterrorism” has even been welded onto the Navy’s long sought latest “hole in the ocean”, the Littoral Combat Ship. which has about as much utility in killing terrorists as a trombone does for cooking spaghetti.
Liam:
You just pulled that big lie out off your arse.
It is not a lie, and I got it from my vast store of knowledge about history.
Indeed, the name of the bill which ultimately authorized it was known as the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of 1956, and was supported by Ike after he had seen the German Autobahn and its usefulness in support of national defense during WWII.
From the bill itself:
It is hereby declared to be essential to the national interest to provide for the early completion of the “National System of Interstate Highways”, as authorized and designated in accordance with section 7 of the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1944 (58 Stat. 838)…Because of its primary importance to the national defense, the name of such system is hereby changed to the “National System of Interstate and Defense Highways”. Such National System of Interstate and Defense Highways is hereinafter in this Act referred to as the “Interstate System.
http://www.ourdocuments.gov/print_friendly.php?flash=old&page=transcript&doc=88&title=Transcript+of+National+Interstate+and+Defense+Highways+Act+(1956)
Scott C:
“It is not a lie, and I got it from my vast store of knowledge about history.”
Be more specific,please.
Dead White European Slave-owning Imperialist Patriarchial Homophobe Greenhouse-gassing Male History.
!-) Stimulus worked:
“STRONGEST ECONOMIC GROWTH IN SIX YEARS.”
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_01/022153.php
But the real test is whether EMPLOYMENT starts increasing (and increasing faster than population growth).
The economic gains haven’t been shared by the vast majority of Americans in years, until that changes gross domestic product increases will be meaningless to the vast majority of Americans.
Bernie Sanders is talking about the “equitable distribution” of economic gains on:
http://www.thomhartmann.com/thomtv-2.php
So…it doesn’t COUNT!
Interesting history lesson on the highway system. Poor libs being schooled again.
Reefer also said:
The Constitution and it’s Amendment ONLY APPLY TO PEOPLE.
And again: “Corporations” are NOT people. Corporations are property.
You can shout all you want, but it makes you no less wrong. And that isn’t my opinion. It is a fact.
Your statements harbors several basic analytical errors.
Taking the second first, no, corporations are not “property” rather than persons, and no competent lawyer would ever make such a claim. They are legal entities that have always been treated as persons for many legal purposes. You can own shares of stock in a corporation, but you don’t actually own the corporation as property.
Ask yourself some basic questions. If a corporation is just property and not a person, how can it be sued for something it did? How can it sue? How can it be prosecuted for crimes? When it is prosecuted, why is does it have due process rights.
Second, the fact that the Preamble says it was “We the people” who formed the Constitution of course does not mean that it “applies” only to natural persons, even if you assume that “People” includes only natural persons. To use a loose anaology, for example, you could form a trust to benefit other people or organizations.
You might think that this would be a reasonable assumption, by the way, but keep in mind that the Constitution was NOT formed by the individual citizens of the states but by the states. Each state sent delegates to the Constitutional Convention, where they drafted and signed the Constitution for ratification by the the STATES. So even where the Preamble says “We the People,” it means the people as represented by their respective states.
Ethan | January 29th, 2010 at 11:29 am
It’s a fact. Trolls LOVE terrorism as a subject… Because they LOVE to be terrorized! Their entire worldview is built around a militant approach to everything. They are constantly in battle. Terrorism is like a constant state of warfare because you are constantly on edge because you never know when terrorists will strike. Terrorism makes Republicans feel right at home, but makes otherwise normal/sensible people act like Republicans.
–
And here I thought you had a bit of sense, thanks for proving me wrong.
Normal/sensible people know there is a real threat from radical islam and normal people also know that folks like you, progressives/liberals/dems(most) will not and cannot protect the US.
“No Republicans Stand for Prohibiting Foreign Corp Money in Politics”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QITJMtqrIiA
Republicans sold America out to the highest bidder, Republicans don’t even care if that high bidder is foreign corporations.
Either the right wingers here don’t understand that or don’t care.
“No Republicans Stand Against Jobs Overseas.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHgZ6AHTYvw
Republican leaders have no loyalty to Americans nor America.
Republican voters who have loyalty to America vote for progressives that want to keep good American jobs in America.