Who Runs Gov

The Plum LineGreg Sargent's blog

Sunday Roundup

* There are lots of things to tweak Sarah Palin for, but the fact that she dropped out of a 5K Turkey Trot charity race in order to avoid crowds at the end, as many are noting, isn’t one of them. Organizers were clearly glad that her presence alone brought the race more attention. Come on, this one is just silly.

* Senators Jack Reed and Dick Lugar duke it out over Lugar’s suggestion that we forget about health care and focus on war and jobs. Unclear why this is “audacious,” since GOPers have argued for months in favor of delaying reform indefinitely.

* Fred Hiatt: Obama’s strategy in Afghanistan is doomed unless he stiff-arms liberals and commits to an open-ended presence.

* Senator Jon Kyl agrees, lays the groundwork for Republicans to portray any talk of exit timetables as a sign of weakness and lack of American resolve.

* Will Obama make the moral and human rights case for escalating?

* John Kerry releases new report claiming vindication about Bin Laden and Tora Bora.

* How many pundits will take a clear position on whether Kerry was right and Bush was wrong?

* New report from MIT gives ammunition to Senate Dems for the big health care debate, set to begin in earnest this coming week.

* Good, quick read: John Judis skewers Jon Meacham’s Cheney 2012 fantasy.

* And here’s the shocker of the day: Lobbyists are furiously lobbying the White House to cease and desist efforts to limit their lobbying.

What else is happening?

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Posted by Greg Sargent | 11/29/2009, 10:23 AM EST | Categories: Afghanistan, Bush administration, Senate Dems, Senate Republicans, terrorism

55 Responses

  1. Liam | November 29th, 2009 at 10:28 am

    ..

    Twitter Quitter Palin.

    The Gift That Keeps On Quitting, I mean Giving.

    She is truly beyond parody. Read this folks. It is hilarious, and TRUE!

    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/kennewick_pasco_richland/story/808281.html

    “Palin had announced on Twitter that she would be running the 5k race organized by the Benton-Franklin Chapter of the Red Cross.

    She didn’t finish the race, opting to leave the course early to avoid more crowds at the end. About 40 minutes into the run, word started trickling out to people gathered at the finish line that she was gone.

    Executive Director Jeanne Jelke wasn’t sure if Palin’s presence drew more runners and walkers or just onlookers, but was thankful for the national publicity.

    Jelke quoted Palin as saying, “I hope the Red Cross makes a lot of money.””
    ………………………
    I sense a pattern here folks. No need to worry about if Palin becomes President. If she does, she will quit in order to avoid becoming a lame duck, and to avoid the crowds.

  2. Liam | November 29th, 2009 at 10:33 am

    On a very serious note, how the hell have the courts allowed this to go on for decades?FORT WORTH, Texas — See this gun.

    Hold it.

    After examining the gun and an evidence bullet, a firearms examiner tells you that this was the weapon used in a shooting.

    As proof, he shows you the observations and comparison he has made using a microscope that reveals patterns of striations on the bullet. If the patterns correspond from test-fire to test-fire and to the bullet, the examiner says the bullet is “a match” to the firearm.

    Firearms analysis has helped convict Texas defendants for decades. Others’ crimes were purportedly exposed by dog sniffing, hairs at crime scenes, latent fingerprints and gunpowder flakes. Now it’s up to the state commission tasked with investigating crime labs to move forward on a charge that will draw intense scrutiny to such analyses.

    The Texas Forensic Science Commission had planned this month to begin a series of discussions about a national report that opened a Pandora’s box of questions about crime lab techniques. The National Academy of Sciences — advisers to Congress and the president — reported that conclusions about bullet matching are opinion, not fact. Most other identification methods widely used by forensic scientists, the panel advised, also haven’t been validated.

    How did a scientifically unproven method receive the blessing of the FBI and forensic “experts” across the nation and other crime lab methods become so widely accepted?

    “In a nutshell, these people aren’t scientists,” said Jay A. Siegel, a member of the academy, which was established by President Abraham Lincoln to advise the nation on far-reaching questions of science and technology. “They don’t know what validation is. They don’t know what it means to validate a test.”

    Bullet matching — a practice that takes place every day in Texas crime labs — isn’t reliable, Siegel said, and no studies have been conducted to prove the extent to which firearms marks are unique.

    “It’s not possible to state with any scientific certainty that this bullet came from any weapon in the world,” said Siegel, who is the chairman of the department of chemistry and chemical biology at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis and director of the Forensic and Investigative Sciences Program.

    Other identification methods — including tying hairs to suspects, guns to criminals and blood spatter to crime scenes — lack protocols and standards that legitimize such practices as “scientific.” ”

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/v-print/story/79698.html

  3. Greg Sargent | November 29th, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Wow, that link is scary, Liam. Thanks much.

  4. Liam | November 29th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    Greg,

    Here is the link to the more detailed article:

    http://www.star-telegram.com/804/v-print/story/1797030.html

  5. Travis | November 29th, 2009 at 10:58 am

    “Senators Jack Reed and Dick Lugar duke it out over Lugar’s suggestion that we forget about health care and focus on war and jobs. Unclear why this is ‘audacious,’ since GOPers have argued for months in favor of delaying reform indefinitely.”

    Maybe it’s the juxtaposition: putting off a life-saving endeavor to pursue/ramp up one that will inevitably result in the loss of life?

  6. Liam | November 29th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Luger wants to let The Private Insurance Cabal continue dropping sick people, and leave more that thirty million people with no health care, so that he can concentrate on the business of killing people abroad.

    What’s in a name. LUGER. Yes indeed. Let us delay the business of keeping millions alive and well at home, so that we can concentrate on the business of killing people overseas.

    LUGER would put the lives of many more Americans at risk, than the terrorists do.

    The Entire Republican Party has gone stark raving mad, and Luger was considered to be one of the more rational members.

  7. Travis | November 29th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    “Senator Jon Kyl agrees, lays the groundwork for Republicans to portray any talk of exit timetables as a sign of weakness and lack of American resolve.”

    Republicans will portray any plan that isn’t a Bush/McCain-type, open-ended one as “weak.”

    Actually, based on how they’ve responded to Obama — with incessant attacks — I fully expect them to portray Obama’s plan as “weak” simply because it’s “Obama’s plan.” They want to undermine Obama; everything else (including reasonableness) will take a backseat to that aim.

  8. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    “Actually, based on how they’ve responded to Obama — with incessant attacks — I fully expect them to portray Obama’s plan as “weak” simply because it’s “Obama’s plan.” They want to undermine Obama; everything else (including reasonableness) will take a backseat to that aim”

    Of course they will but the country seems to be with Obama here and not with the Repugs at all. The country wants out of Afghanistan.

  9. roxsteady | November 29th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Sorry Greg but, I think she walked right into this one. Having quit her high profile job, she quits a race because of crowds? Buy my book but, don’t expect to even get a glimpse of me? She wasn’t going to sign books but, she couldn’t give them a thrill by finishing the race? It’s become a pattern!

  10. converse | November 29th, 2009 at 11:38 am

    But Sarah’s such a Quirky Q-tie, that whenever she Quits, there’s always a Queue for news!

    See Sullivan on SP’s Q’s: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/11/palin-playing-scrabble-ctd.html

  11. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    “Sorry Greg but, I think she walked right into this one.”

    Yeah it’s hard to avoid once she walked out on her job cause it was too hard.

    And she frakked everything up.

  12. Liam | November 29th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Roxsteady,

    And Twitter Quitter Palin got on her bus, last week in Indiana, leaving hundreds of people with wristbands without signatures on their books. They even told her that they were promised that all those who got wristbands would have their books signed, but she just ignored them, and yelled at the crowd, as she boarded the bus, and left; “you guys are hard core patriots.”

    In Twitter Quitter Palin’s world, “hardcore patriots” are those suckers who buy her books, and swallow her bullshite.

  13. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Man Jacpb Weisberg has an awesome piece at Slate on Obama first absolutely phenomenal year.

    “This conventional wisdom about Obama’s first year isn’t just premature—it’s sure to be flipped on its head by the anniversary of his inauguration on Jan. 20. If, as seems increasingly likely, Obama wins passage of a health care reform a bill by that date, he will deliver his first State of the Union address having accomplished more than any other postwar American president at a comparable point in his presidency. This isn’t an ideological point or one that depends on agreement with his policies. It’s a neutral assessment of his emerging record—how many big, transformational things Obama is likely to have made happen in his first 12 months in office.”

    http://www.slate.com/id/2236708/

    It’s a great read.

  14. Greg Sargent | November 29th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Cmon, this latest attack on Palin is bogus. There’s no sign that the organizers, or even her fans, were disappointed by her not finishing the race.

    We hit her when she seeks adulation, so let’s not hit her when she doesn’t seek adulation. The organizers said she’d brought the race attention. Hitting her over something as nonsensical as this is overkill and makes legit criticism suspect.

  15. Greg Sargent | November 29th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    Oh, and thanks for that link, Tena. that is a great piece.

  16. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    I get your point about the race,Greg. The problem is she has a rep now as a quitter and it’s going to haunt her no matter how good the reason is.

  17. Liam | November 29th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Greg,

    You are missing the entire point. Palin announced on Twitter that she was going to run the 5K, in order to get people to come out and meet her. Then she ducked out on those that she induced to come out. Those people attended only because Twitter Quitter Palin lured them into showing up to see her. If she did not want to face a crowd, then she should not have created one.

    On the other hand, if she were President now, those reality show crashers would not have gotten away with meeting The President, because Quitter, and First Dude Todd would have ducked out, in order to avoid the greeting line crowd. You Betcha!

  18. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    That’s what happens – I quit going to school my senior year in high school. Then I read for a part in the school play. I should have gotten the part but I was told I was unreliable cause I didn’t show to school. I was understudy and showed up at every rehearsal – did not matter. I had the rep.

  19. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    Y’all think the gun story is scary? Ha ha ha. Y’all never heard of Dr. Death I guess. He was a forensics “expert” who testified all over Texas and was responsible for sending all kinds of people to death row based on totally spurious “science” that meant virtually nothing.

  20. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    AS far as I can recall, Dr. Death only testified that one person he examined was statutorily insane for purposes of Texas law. Everybody else got executed. Regardless – cause Dr. Death didn’t really believe in the insanity defense.

  21. Bernie Latham | November 29th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    “And here’s the shocker of the day: Lobbyists are furiously lobbying the White House to cease and desist efforts to limit their lobbying.”

    Tuesday we’re for Israel
    Thursday Abu Dhabi
    But right now we’re for just ourselves
    The meta-lobby lobby.

  22. Liam | November 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    What? What? What?

    How can this be. Didn’t Our Magic Surge Eraser Wipe Out All Of This Sort Of Behavior!

    Mysterious ‘Saddam Channel’ hits Iraq TV

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091129/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq_saddam_channel

    “BAGHDAD – Turning on their TVs during the long holiday weekend, Iraqis were greeted by a familiar if unexpected face from their brutal past: Saddam Hussein.

    The late Iraqi dictator is lauded on a mysterious satellite channel that began broadcasting on the Islamic calendar’s anniversary of his 2006 execution.

    No one seems to know who is bankrolling the so-called Saddam Channel, although the Iraqi government suspects it’s Baathists whose political party Saddam once led. The Associated Press tracked down a man in Damascus, Syria named Mohammed Jarboua, who claimed to be its chairman.

    The Saddam channel, he said, “didn’t receive a penny from the Baathists” and is for Iraqis and other Arabs who “long for his rule.”

    Jarboua has clearly made considerable efforts to hide where it’s aired from and refuses to say who is funding it besides “people who love us.”

    Iraqis surprised to find Saddam on their TVs responded with the kind of divided emotions that marked his reign.

    “Iraqis don’t need such a satellite channel because it has hostile intentions,” said Hassan Subhi, a 28-year-old Shiite who owns an Internet cafe in eastern Baghdad.

    Others said they felt a nostalgic sorrow at the sight of their late leader, a Sunni Arab.

    “All my family felt sad,” said Samar Majid, a Sunni high school teacher in western Baghdad, mentioning images shown from Saddam’s execution, and pictures of his two sons and grandson.

    The channel, which is broadcast across the Arab world, dredges up the sectarian divisions that Saddam inspired among Shiites and Sunnis at a time when Iraq is gearing up for crucial national elections. Iraqi politicians have been arguing over parliamentary seat distribution in a dispute that has inflamed the splits. The wrangling will likely delay the vote beyond its constitutionally required Jan. 30 deadline.

    Saddam’s hanging three years ago was on the first day of Eid al-Adha, the most important holiday of the Islamic calendar. His execution — and the day it was done — remains a sore point for Saddam sympathizers still smarting over images of the defiant leader in his final moments as Shiites in the death chamber shouted curses.”

  23. Liam | November 29th, 2009 at 01:01 pm

    Not To Worry. Not To Worry. Not To Worry.

    Our Pending military surge in Afghanistan will solve this little problem, just like our military operations in Iraq, took care of our little Afghanistan problem. Right?

    Somali training camps fuel threat of attacks on US

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091129/ap_on_re_af/af_somalia_training_camps

    “MOGADISHU, Somalia – The recruits gather in scorching desert hideouts in Somalia, use portraits of President Barack Obama for target practice, learn how to make and detonate bombs, and vow allegiance to Osama bin Laden.

    Training camps in the lawless nation of Somalia are attracting hundreds of foreigners, including Americans, and Somalis recruited by a local insurgent group linked to al-Qaida, according to local and U.S. officials. American officials and private analysts say the camps pose a security threat far beyond the borders of Somalia, including to the U.S. homeland.”

  24. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 01:18 pm

    Hi Bernie! Happy Sunday.

  25. oddjob | November 29th, 2009 at 01:18 pm

    Somali training camps fuel threat of attacks on US

    Thus the game of Whack-a-Mole continues…….

  26. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 01:25 pm

    I am not surprised that there are a lot of Iraqis who would like to have Saddam back.

    The country was doing ok under Saddam. It was the only secular Muslim country in the ME. Women didn’t have to wear burkas and didn’t. There was a large and well-educated middle class in Baghdad and other cities.

    He was a tyrant. So is the head of Uzbekistan – our beloved allies. So is the House of Saud – our TRULY beloved allies. The Saudis have beheaded more of their people publicly than I’ll bet Saddam did away with secretly.

    I dont know that = so don’t jump me because I didn’t pick that nit.

  27. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 01:38 pm

    And of course the Sunnis want him back – they were the majority and they discriminated viciously against the Shi’a, like they do in every single Sunni country.

    It’s a war that has been going on since the day after the Prophet died.

  28. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 02:24 pm

    My best story about “expert witnesses” was the appeal I did for a guy on a burglary charge. During the trial the state called the arresting officer as an expert witness on burglaries so he could testify that in his opinion, the screwdriver he found on my guy was the type of tool used to jimmy locks.

    It was like Minority Report or something.

  29. News Reference | November 29th, 2009 at 02:30 pm

    Iraqi Sunnis were the minority compared to the Shia majority.

    “Muslim 97% (Shia 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%”
    -CIA World Factbook

  30. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 02:37 pm

    They were in charge – sorry, didn’t split that hair just right.

    They did run things because Saddam was a Sunni and his entire army was Sunni.

  31. af | November 29th, 2009 at 02:44 pm

    The pattern today from comments by Graham, Lugar, and Kyl, is one of “Sure we’ll put more money in war, just cut, postpone, and eliminate progressive social programs.” It’s just another of the many, uninterrupted efforts to defeat any health reform bill. Hell, they’ve been after Social Security for 70 years.

  32. oddjob | November 29th, 2009 at 02:54 pm

    Iraqi Sunnis were the minority compared to the Shia majority.

    “Muslim 97% (Shia 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%”
    -CIA World Factbook

    “Iraq” as such isn’t even really a country. The only reason its boundaries are as they are is because that’s how England & France decided to carve up the Turkish Empire after WWI.

    “Iraq” is a textbook dysfunctional artifice, and always has been.

  33. oddjob | November 29th, 2009 at 02:57 pm

    “Sure we’ll put more money in war, just cut, postpone, and eliminate progressive social programs.”

    So they have argued all of my adult life. They didn’t do that quite so much when I was a child, but that’s because back then conservatives weren’t anywhere near as interested in supporting military ventures for their own sake (unless you could make a really convincing case that you were truly directly confronting the commies).

  34. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 02:58 pm

    oddjob – Actually, I read a lot near the start of the war that indicated that in fact it had been a dysfunctional artifice until it unified, basically under Saddam. He forced it, no doubt about it. But Iraq was beginning to self-identify was one country – Iraq – right about the time we decided to tear it all up again.

  35. Bernie Latham | November 29th, 2009 at 03:08 pm

    @tena
    Backatcha, texas tart

  36. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 03:20 pm

    Bernie – don’t make me come over there and get out my 10 inch straight razor.

    Since you married one of us, I know you know we still know where to find em down here.

    ;)

  37. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 03:22 pm

    …cause that’s the way the girls are from Texas.

    anyone who wants to frak around with us should really memorize Ry’s song.

    LOL

  38. Chris- The Fold | November 29th, 2009 at 03:25 pm

    What else is happening?

    I’m a proud papa of twin boys!!

  39. Bernie Latham | November 29th, 2009 at 03:32 pm

    @Liam…re your “steamin’ jesus” reply earlier:

    As you may know, the famous Shroud of Turin was put through a series of tests including carbon dating most recently about two decades ago. The testing was encouraged by some folks in the Christian community who held it to be the piece of linen Jesus was wrapped in after that unfortunate Friday.

    The tests were a disappointment to these folks, putting the date at 1250 to 1400 during that period when the crusader-tourist routes were likely dotted with roadside stands selling genuine pieces of the true cross, etc.

    But the believers, after a short period of reflection, figured out why these tests were wrong. They explained it as follows: science does not have enough data at this point to account for the changes in molecular structure that would occur from the energies involved in a heavenly ascension.

    But the test came up with a more recent date, approximately the time of the crusades

  40. Bernie Latham | November 29th, 2009 at 03:35 pm

    OK, so I need an editor.

    @Tena – I expect you are familiar with “the very thing that makes you rich makes me poor”

    And that’s it for today.

  41. oddjob | November 29th, 2009 at 03:56 pm

    it had been a dysfunctional artifice until it unified, basically under Saddam. He forced it, no doubt about it. But Iraq was beginning to self-identify was one country – Iraq – right about the time we decided to tear it all up again.

    Ah, I stand corrected. Maybe it would be more accurate to say the only way Iraq has ever remained a distinct political entity was under the control of a single strong ruler (whether monarch or despot).

  42. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 04:33 pm

    Christhefold – Holy Cow!

    Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  43. Tena | November 29th, 2009 at 04:34 pm

    Chris they are darling – O My God what news!!

  44. SchrodingersCat | November 29th, 2009 at 06:05 pm

    Chris – the fold: Congrats, they are beautiful! We have twin boys who will be turning 3 in January. Hold on to your seat, it’s going to be a bumpy (but joyful) ride!!!!!

  45. Bernie Latham | November 29th, 2009 at 07:09 pm

    @Chris

    Hearty congrats! I have a twin brother myself and after the first fifteen years of mortal combat our relationship evolved into a very real blessing.

  46. lmsinca | November 29th, 2009 at 07:13 pm

    Wow Chris, they are truly beautiful. Start saving for college now my friend. My twin nephews graduate High School this year and the next four years will be expensive for their parents. Anyway, enjoy them and give your wife a little extra love, she’s earned it.

  47. mike from Arlington | November 29th, 2009 at 07:24 pm

    Two more libs are always a good thing! :) Grats.

  48. AllButCertain | November 29th, 2009 at 08:34 pm

    Congrats, Chris, on the lovely baby boys. It’s fascinating watching brothers grow up. When they’re twins, that’s certain to add to the mix.

  49. JoyceH | November 29th, 2009 at 08:38 pm

    I agree with those who contend that Palin’s quitting of a race she publicly touted her participation in is not trivial, because of the context.

    The context is that she had already gained the reputation of being a quitter. She quit her ELECTED OFFICE as Governor; I can’t think of another instance when someone quit an office that high simply because they didn’t want to do it anymore. People quit because a massive scandal is about to break and/or they’re about to be indicted.

    But Palin claimed she was quitting to go on to bigger and better things – and those things turned out to be going around flacking for a book she didn’t write. Then she leaves a bunch of people in the lurch with their wristbands that they were told meant that they were guaranteed a signed book. The people chanting ’sign our books!’ and ‘quitter!’ were Palin fans!

    If she wants to be taken at all seriously anymore, she’s got to be seen actually FINISHING something she starts. But here she posted to Facebook, information available globally, that she was going to participate in a 5K. Not a marathon but a measly 5K. So people came out to see her, and those were people who admired her. And the Palin fans got stiffed AGAIN.

    Not because she twisted an ankle or had some other sort of mishap, but because she just decided not to finish what she started — AGAIN.

  50. amk | November 29th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Chris – Double Congrats, you lucky dawg.

    Greg, are we seeing star dusts again ? or may be thrill up your legs ? You’re going to vote for moose mama, come 2012, aren’t ya ?

  51. Chris- The Fold | November 29th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    Thanks everyone! In case you can’t tell, I’m happy.

  52. Greg Sargent | November 30th, 2009 at 06:38 am

    Hey Chris, congrats! Great news.

  53. Greg Sargent | November 30th, 2009 at 08:15 am

    All, morning roundup posted:

    http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/climate-change/the-morning-plum-20/

  54. oddjob | November 30th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    As Obama considers adding yet more troops to the near-decade-long occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq cannot muster sufficient political consensus to organize the elections critical to the departure of 120,000 US troops. The Beltway consensus that Iraq has already been a victory was always more about the Beltway than Iraq, and more about sustaining neo-imperial morale rather than confronting reality. The Beltway doesn’t do reality very well. They prefer Palin and “bending the cost curve” and “exit-ramps” and “optics”.

    So let’s confront reality and remember exactly what the Iraq “surge” was designed to achieve when it was launched in 2007. It was designed to create a security environment in which a new Iraqi political settlement could be hammered out between the various sectarian factions. On this critical test, the surge did prevent more chaos and disintegration, largely because of a well-exploited spontaneous shift in the loyalty of several Sunni tribes. But the vital – indeed central – task of ensuring that the minority Sunnis have a real stake in the new Iraq (central because it’s the core guarantee that a civil sectarian war won’t break out again) has not been accomplished.

    In fact, recent events suggest a move backwards as the entropy of the Arab and Muslim world reasserts itself….

  55. wiliam | January 2nd, 2010 at 07:35 am

    great job, everybody, keep up

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