Poll: In New York, Opposition To Terror Trial Is Old, White, And Republican
Buried in the internals of the new Marist poll of New York City residents is a striking finding: Opposition to trying Khalid Sheik Mohammed and his co-conspirators in a New York court is almost entirely driven by old, white, and Republican voters.
The poll finds that overall, 45% of New Yorkers think the trial is a good idea, versus 41% who think it’s a bad idea.
When the numbers are broken down by age, the only group against the trial is made up of those over 65, by 46%-41%. The other age groups are in favor of it.
When the numbers are broken down by race, the only group against the trial is made up of whites, by 49%-41%. Blacks and Latinos both favor it, Latinos overwhelmingly so.
And when the poll is broken down by party, Republicans are overwhelmingly against the trial, 68%-23%. Dems and “non-enrolled” both favor it.
Suggestive. It would be interesting to see a similar breakdown of a national poll, wouldn’t it?
Special thanks to reader Ethan for the catch.
*****************************************
Update: According to CNN, opposition to the trial is strong across age and party lines.
This blog’s homepage is here. RSS feed here. Twitter feed here. Email me here..
Yeah, I’m having a talk with Ethan later…
[just keeeeding - I really think it's interesting]
Noooooooo.
PS – Actually, I like this kinda poll parsing.
Alright Greg! And thanks for the shoutout
“In New York, Opposition To Terror Trial Is Old, White, And Republican”
And … ?
“Suggestive”
Of what?
Plus I like seeing just who it is who is opposing the ideas of the American justice system.
Why is it no surprise that it’s old white Repugs?
Did the poll ask whether residents preferred a military trial versus Federal civilian trial?
“Suggestive” of the fact repugs are nutz. Simple.
That old White Repugs are the only ones who see overwhelmingly terrified of terrorists inasmuch as they’ve internalized the Repug message = be very afraid at all times.
And everyone knows the old, the white, and GOP don’t count.
who seem
this keyboard is going to be the death of me but who has time to go get another one? I have to sit here until the hot water is back on.
*heavysigh*
“And everyone knows the old, the white, and GOP don’t count.”
dude – do not look now, but they just were counted. that’s what this is about.
qb – Actually those old, white goopers were ‘counted’ last november and were found wanting. End of story. Now, get back to your momma’s cellar.
“That old White Repugs are the only ones who see overwhelmingly terrified of terrorists inasmuch as they’ve internalized the Repug message = be very afraid at all times.”
There’s nothing in that poll question about fear at all. They ask if one thinks it is a good idea or a bad idea. You’re just making stuff up now.
Faux Propaganda, QB. That. Is. All. You. Have.
SAD.
“You’re just making stuff up now.”
YOu are without a doubt the most tiresome mofo I’ve ever run into.
You just murder the conversation with your nitpicking bullshit.
Reality Check:
Thank You, Bush/Cheney Confederacy Of Fear Mongering Incompetents. This is what the trillions of dollars they have squandered, and the thousands of our Troops lives which they have squandered, has wrought.
Ask yourselves; why should we keep doing the same thing again and again?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091117/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_corruption_index/print
”
Afghanistan slips in corruption index despite aid
Nov 17, 10:17 am ET
BERLIN – Afghanistan has slipped three places to become the world’s second most-corrupt country despite billions in aid meant to bolster the government against a rising insurgency, according to an annual survey of perceived levels of corruption.
Only lawless Somalia, whose weak U.N.-backed government controls just a few blocks of the capital, was perceived as more corrupt than Afghanistan in Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index.
Iraq saw some improvement, rising to 176 of 180 countries, up two places up from last year. Singapore, Denmark and New Zealand were seen as the least corrupt countries in the list based on surveys of businesses and experts.
In Afghanistan, President Hamid Karzai’s inability or unwillingness to tackle cronyism and bribery the past five years have resulted in an increase of support for the Taliban insurgents. That has prompted calls by the Obama administration for Karzai to tackle the practice or risk forfeiting U.S. aid.
Since 2001, the U.S. Congress has appropriated more than $39 billion in humanitarian and reconstruction assistance for Afghanistan, according to a report by the U.S. Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction. European nations send about 1 billion euros ($1.49 billion) a year, a total of 9 billion euros since 2002.
International donors are increasingly questioning how much of the billions of dollars in aid might have been misappropriated.
The report said examples of Afghan corruption ranged from the sale of government positions to daily bribes for basic services.”
So what do you think it means, sbj, that a majority of old white Repugs are against trials in federal courts?
Either way you spin it, it aint’ good. Either they are afraid or they just don’t want to see American justice done.
Take your damn pick.
SBJ, do you think that old, white Republicans get their info from Fox News?
“Either they are afraid or they just don’t want to see American justice done.”
Or any number of other reasons – put your thinking cap on, tena. (And I thought progressives accused conservatives of a lack of nuance?) Justice can be achieved in military courts – it happens every day there, no?
“Or any number of other reasons – put your thinking cap on, tena. (And I thought progressives accused conservatives of a lack of nuance?) Justice can be achieved in military courts – it happens every day there, no?”
Not an answer. that’s not an anwer.
@ethan: Do you think that the opinions of some groups – young, minority, Democratic – mean more than the opinions of other groups? Do you think that this poll suggests that old white Republicans are scared racists? Do you think we should ignore old people if they watch FNC?
Do you think?
“Not an answer. that’s not an anwer.”
Did you ask a question?
Do you think that the military justice system is legitimate and fair? Do you think that the civilian system that you worked in is fair?
“Do you think that the opinions of some groups – young, minority, Democratic – mean more than the opinions of other groups?”
Do you think that old, white Republicans get their info from Fox News?
“Do you think that this poll suggests that old white Republicans are scared racists?”
Do you think that old, white Republicans get their info from Fox News?
“Do you think we should ignore old people if they watch FNC?”
Do you think that old, white Republicans get their info from Fox News?
They had KSM for several years, but Bush/Cheney never set up a military trial for him, so that is just another Right Wing Fear Mongering Red Herring. They never tried him, when they had the chance.
Fear is all the have. They fail at every thing else.
“civilian system that you worked in is fair?”
No. Not if you’re African American and poor it’s not. Not in Dallas Co., Texas.
But I asked you why you think a majority of old white Repugs are against the trials. That was the question.
“Old, White, And Republican” – the Americans whom Osama defeated.
“the Americans whom Osama defeated.”
There you go. I must have read a half dozen letters to the editor in the Dallas paper in ‘01, 02 and ‘03, from elderly white ladies who wanted to give up their constitutionally guaranteed rights and liberties to be safe from Osama.
I remember how disgusted I was about it. Good effing god talk about handing Osama a huge gift-wrapped Victory.
“civilian system that you worked in is fair?”
“No. Not if you’re African American and poor it’s not. Not in Dallas Co., Texas.”
Point one – you seem glad that a minority terrorist is about to be subjected to a justice system that is not fair. Gotcha.
“But I asked you why you think a majority of old white Repugs are against the trials.”
Because older people have more faith in the military justice system. Because older people feel that KSM and his cohorts should be accused of war crimes. Because Republicans have more faith in the military system. Because white people have more faith in the justice system.
sbj, which war crime would ksm be guilty of? Torture maybe?
“Because white people have more faith in the justice system.”
THey polled against it, sbj. Thats the issue in the post.
Jeeeezuz, sbj – the whole discussion is about older white repugs being against the justice system when it comes to the terrorists.
Specifically, these are the people who watch Fox and listen to Rush, etc. They are having their opinions manufactured for them. Can anyone doubt for one second that these same people would be totally behind the idea of a civilian trial if it had originated with a conservative Republican administration?
SBJ is a complete Moron. He just said that White People have more faith in the Justice System, even though the Poll results show that they are the ones who do not want KSM to be tried by the Justice System, while Blacks and Latinos do want him tried by The Justice System.
SBJ is clearly a Right Wing, Fear Mongering Nut Job!
Virginia, you have just asked the $64,000 question.
I say we ask that question about EVERYTHING the GOP opposes.
“Which war crime would ksm be guilty of? Torture maybe?”
Hmm, perhaps targeting innocent civilian populations? Conspiracy to commit acts of terror?
Are you serious? You think masterminding the plot to fly planes into the WTC and kill almost 3000 civilians is a permissible act of war?
“Can anyone doubt for one second that these same people would be totally behind the idea of a civilian trial if it had originated with a conservative Republican administration?”
Bingo – you win comment of the week.
“a permissible act of war?:”
What war?
As Virginia said…
Is this Fox Propaganda Network and the rest of the right wing is manipulating the older voting block through fear?
Repeat that over and over and let that sink into the mind of the elderly and see what happens.
“What war”
Okay – now we’re just visiting looney town.
If KSM committed war crimes, that means he’s a POW and that means the US committed war crimes by waterboarding him.
I have been telling you that for 2 days and either you don’t believe me or you aren’t paying attention.
An Enemy Combatant in a undeclared combat situation does not commit war crimess.
IF someone committed war crimes,then they are A PRISONER OF WAR.
While in office, Dick Cheney was pushing the meme that somehow the Constitution was not adequate to protect us from terrorists. An attack of a couple of dozen thugs with utility knives was enough to make him scuttle 230 years of democracy in favor of state sponsored torture and suspension of habeas corpus, etc., etc., etc.
Why does the old white GOP have such little confidence of our legal system? Our legal system has done just fine, thank you very much, in previous terrorism cases, and Giuliani supported that process then. Now, he feels our system is somehow not accurate.
Why?
Giuliani didn’t used to be in that group but apparently he’s aged.
“This is the same man who hailed the conviction — in a New York City courtroom — of the terrorists responsible for the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. He said the guilty verdicts demonstrated that “our legal system is the most mature legal system in the history of the world,” “that it works well, that is the place to seek vindication if you feel your rights have been violated.”
“That earlier Giuliani — let’s call him the Kumbaya version — was the New York City brand of Republican, the kind who believes in both tax cuts and gay marriage. When a Lebanese immigrant shot four Hasidic students in a bus on the Brooklyn Bridge 1994, that Rudy declined to label the shooting an act of terrorism and denied press reports that the shooter was a member of Hezbollah.
“This act of evil is not the act of a people, but it’s the act of a person or persons. Let’s
show America and the world that we can make that distinction, that we have not only the best of cities, but the wisest of cities,” Giuliani said. [Years later, the government concluded the shooting was a terrorist act.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-collins/giuliani-the-brave_b_360408.html
“Okay – now we’re just visiting looney town.”
No we’re on the border of sbj land where questions never get answered.
Reality Check, once more.
Bush/Cheney had KSM for several years, and they never brought him to trial in a military court. They had plenty of time to deal with the situation, and they did nothing.
They are just like those Republican Congressional Clowns, who only come up with suggestions about how to reform health care, when they are not in power.
The Right Wingers had their chance, for several years, to try KSM, in a manner of their own choosing, and they did nothing, just like those Republican Congressional leaders did nothing about Health Care Reform, when they had years and years of being in power.
Ignore those do nothing, fear mongering losers!
“The Right Wingers had their chance, for several years, to try KSM, in a manner of their own choosing, and they did nothing, just like those Republican Congressional leaders did nothing about Health Care Reform, when they had years and years of being in power.”
And they just complain about everything Obama is doing to fix the ungodly mess they left behind.
They broke EVERYTHING.
How long will it be okay to keep bringing up Bush/Cheney as the culprit for everything. I cut my finger this morning. I blame the government! I mean, not all of the government, the last federal presidential administration!
More on this subject here:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/17/oreilly-trials-constitution/
If Liz Cheney is against it, I’m for it.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/liz-cheney-rails-against-911-trials.php?ref=fpb
Healthy or not, he is clearly A Nut. How dare anyone outline the failures of Bush/Cheney while they are still promoting their failed approaches, to this very day.
“I cut my finger this morning. I blame the government! I mean, not all of the government, the last federal presidential administration!”
Well smartass, if you cut your finger in Iraq or Afghanistan then it is Bush’s fault.
“If KSM committed war crimes, that means he’s a POW.”
I believe that Hamdan says that these folks should be granted article 3 protection no matter what we call them. Therefore the CIA interrogations might be found to be war crimes. If al qaeda defeats us then they are welcome to bring us up on war crimes charges.
If you believe that KSM is a POW then you must concede that he has admitted to committing war crimes. Why then should he not receive justice in a military court?
IF White Repugs aren’t scared and aren’t trying to scare others then what is this about:
“WATCH: GOP Rep Suggests Bloomberg’s Daughter May Be Kidnapped Due To Terror Trials ”
That’s Shadegg, again.
I did not say he was a POW. But if he is, you have much bigger problems in any court – we committed war crimes against him, sbj.
How many times do I have to say this?
@tena: “I did not say he was a POW. But if he is, you have much bigger problems in any court – we committed war crimes against him, sbj. How many times do I have to say this?”
You just don’t get it. We don’t have big problems if we committed war crimes. Who’s gonna charge “us?” Not Holder and Obama – that would be insanity. I’ve said that if we lose the war against al qaeda then they can bring Bush and Cheney up on charges. In the meantime, there is a presumption of innocence – and I fear not that KSM will be able to convince a jury that he should be acquitted of mass murder because he was “tortured.”
You are ignoring the plain fact that KSM committed unlawful acts of war and should be tried in our military system. How many times must I repeat? Why do you think that the mass murder of civilians is not a war crime? Why do you have so little faith in our system of military justice?
Liam the Liar, you are indeed a habitual liar, but this is one of the more brazen lies you keep telling:
“Reality Check, once more.
Bush/Cheney had KSM for several years, and they never brought him to trial in a military court. They had plenty of time to deal with the situation, and they did nothing.”
KSM was held for interrogation for some time after coming into US custody, with great success.
He was charged and began prosecution in a military tribunal in early 2008. He asked to plead guilty and asked for a death sentence.
I assume the leftwing wikipedia is considered reliable here. It has a lot of details.
Go read up and enjoy.
And stop lying, Liam, if that is possible for you.
“How long will it be okay to keep bringing up Bush/Cheney as the culprit for everything.”
Forever and ever, qualified only in that, upon the election of another GOP President Bush will join the pantheon of all prior GOP Presidents, who are jointly responsible with the current GOP President for all that is bad and for nothing that is good.
“You just don’t get it. We don’t have big problems if we committed war crimes. Who’s gonna charge “us?” Not Holder and Obama – that would be insanity.”
*sigh*
They wouldn’t have anything to shield that decision behind, sbj, if they started classifying them as POWs.
It’s not that simple.
QB,
How do you recommend we discuss this issue without bringing the Bush administration into it?
Reality Check, once more.
Bush/Cheney had KSM for several years, and they never brought him to trial in a military court. They had plenty of time to deal with the situation, and they did nothing.
They are just like those Republican Congressional Clowns, who only come up with suggestions about how to reform health care, when they are not in power.
The Right Wingers had their chance, for several years, to try KSM, in a manner of their own choosing, and they did nothing, just like those Republican Congressional leaders did nothing about Health Care Reform, when they had years and years of being in power.
Ignore those do nothing, fear mongering losers!
Notice how they use the Orwellian term: EIT, instead of Torture.
They claim it worked, so I suppose that is how we got the information to capture Bin Laden, and all his top aides, and we no longer have to fight in Afghanistan.
“How do you recommend we discuss this issue without bringing the Bush administration into it?”
that’s a good trick since they picked him up, put him in Gitmo and torture him 183 times.
But now they don’t matter, I guess. They handed Obama one of the most unbelievably frakked up legal situations I’ve ever seen but we aren’t supposed to be concerned with the previous adminisitration.
Ok – when are y’all going to stop blaming Clinton for everything?
I’ve seen the right try to pin 9-11 on Clinton.
@Liam: “Bush/Cheney had KSM for several years, and they never brought him to trial in a military court. They had plenty of time to deal with the situation, and they did nothing.”
This is just an outright lie, liam – please stop it.
And sbj – why why why why why does it matter to you so much that KSM be tried in a military court?
Why?
“Ok – when are y’all going to stop blaming Clinton for everything?”
Ha! Ding-ding-ding we have a winnahhh!
So I am assuming that for all polls on which this site reports we can see a similar break down being done. For instance we will start to see discussions of why the CNN and Washington Post Poll gave Democrats an edge of 13% in sampling when pretty much every other poll out there has arrived at a vastly different conclusion as far as partisan ID is concerned. Yeah, I won’t be holding my f’ing breath.
@tena: *sigh* Now who’s avoiding the tough questions?
Did we torture KSM and commit war crimes? If so, isn’t he necessarily a POW? If so, does masterminding the WTC plot amount to a war crimes? If so, why shouldn’t KSM be tried in a military court?
You seem to be arguing that Holder/Obama have decided we should try KSM in a Federal court so that we can avoid this question. But that assumes that accusations of torture will not arise in civil court – and we know that ain’t gonna happen.
Can’t recall Clinton coming up too many times, except when the ignorant liberals here try to claim that Bush caused our problems by “deregulating banks,” which (a) is a wild exaggeration of the minor deregulation that happened (b) under Clinton, not Bush, and (c) didn’t cause our problems anyway.
On the other hand, you folks blame Bush for everything everyday, and not doubt never will stop.
Now this SBJ Moron tops his prior level of Imbecility. Bush/Cheney never tried KSM but SBJ claims that is a lie. That tell you all you need to know about this SBJ clown.
“Can’t recall Clinton coming up too many times,”
Of course you don’t and you aren’t disingenuous or a liar.
Naw.
I see Joe Lamebrainman has posted another one of his brain farts. One more of those, and he will be declared brain dead.
“you folks blame Bush for everything everyday”
YOU BLAME BUSH FOR NOTHING!
YOU BLAME OBAMA FOR EVERYTHING!
How dumb are you?
“But that assumes that accusations of torture will not arise in civil court – and we know that ain’t gonna happen.”
That depends greatly on the judge. If Holder moves to keep that evidence out as irrelevant, there’s every chance the judge will agree.
But the bottom line is that no matter where he’s tried,it will be the same outcome, so I really don’t get what’s with you and the rest of the white Repugs being so adamant about this.
“They handed Obama one of the most unbelievably frakked up legal situations I’ve ever seen but we aren’t supposed to be concerned with the previous adminisitration.”
In what way? SCOTUS has made a couple pretty radical and unprecedented rulings about GITMO detainees, but there is nothing at all compelling Obama/Holder to hold civilian trials. KSM et al were in the process of military prosecution until Obama/Holder decided to give them civilian trials. I’ve seen no claims by your heros that they were left with no choice. They are reserving the option of military trials for other unlawful combatants and terrorists.
“And sbj – why why why why why does it matter to you so much that KSM be tried in a military court?”
The simple answer is that those who commit war crimes should be tried in military courts or international tribunals.
I think, more importantly, trying KSM in a civilian court creates a precedent that creates legal problems going forward. As I stated right at the beginning: How can we legally use CIA-operated drones to assassinate “suspects” in Pakistan without even a trial if we say that KSM is not a POW? How can we prosecute the war on al qaeda if terrorists are not considered at war with us?
A whole different legal dynamic comes into play if they charge him as a war criminal and try him in a military court.
Under those circumstances I’m more inclined to think evidence of torture just might come in.
“And sbj – why why why why why does it matter to you so much that KSM be tried in a military court?
Why?”
Why? Because the man is a terrorist mass-murderer, not a common criminal who should be afforded the same rights given to American citizens. Why? Because even the NY Times and Washington Post admit that Osama Bin Laden gathered intelligence from the trials of other terrorists who were tried in open court rather than before military commisssion. Why? Because Barack Obama has already stated that if he is acquitted by a jury he will not be released anyway. Boy, that would really make this country look good. Why? Because the US has been trying enemy combatants before military commissions since the founding of this nation, so the notion it is un-American is absurd bull ****. Why? Because Obama’s motive is a transparent attempt to score points against the Bush administration. Why? Because the trial could take years and cost taxpayers millions of dollars. Why? Because trying the man in NY City poses obvious security risks, as Gov. Paterson himself pointed out. Why? Because treating terrorism as if it were a law enforcement instead of a military issue is one of the reasons the attacks were never stopped in the first place. Why? Because polls have shown a majority of Americans oppose it, regardless of how you try to spin it away by breaking down the results. Why? Look at the Moussaoui case where a man who plotted to murder 3000 Americans was spared the death penalty because of ONE juror holding out. Why? Because Congress passed a law in 2006 for the express purpose of setting up military commissions to try people like these scumbags. Why? Because these scumbags should not be given a soapbox to spout their anti-American propoganda.
The people who should be answering why are those who support this.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“How can we prosecute the war on al qaeda if terrorists are not considered at war with us?”
ASK GEORGE W BUSH AND DICK CHENEY AND JOHN YOO AND ABU GONZALES THAT QUESTION – THEY ARE WHO DID THIS.
The Bush Legacy: Death, Debt and Destruction.
“How dumb are you?”
Truly a high level of argument. Apparently not as dumb as you, since if you had any brains you would know from my track record here that I blame Bush for plenty, like not doing more to curb reckless spending and the flood of illegal immigration.
@liam: You may be unaware that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four co-defendants told a military judge at Guantanamo during a pre-trial hearing that they wanted to confess and plead guilty.
Joe Lamebrainman now thinks that he is SBJ, or is he?
The answer to it all is really that everything about this is political and politicized for Obama and Holder. This is part of the “reckoning” that Obama promised — not against terrorists but against Bush/Cheney. And how chilling it is. Andrew McCarthy has written insightfully about it, and I am betting he is right.
SBJ is still making lame excuses. We are putting KSM on trial, regardless of what he said in the past. The Bush/Cheney clowns did not try him, and SBJ claims that is a lie.
“ASK GEORGE W BUSH AND DICK CHENEY AND JOHN YOO AND ABU GONZALES THAT QUESTION – THEY ARE WHO DID THIS”
This is not about George Bush. We are discussing the actions of the current president. Why do the people here think what George Bush did is somehow a defense for Obama’s incompetence? This is a discussion about the actions of our current president, not our past one. Furthermore, trying to score points against me by mentioning Bush is silly because you have absolutely no idea how I feel about him or his presidency. And using the word debt when describing the Bush legacy, to rebut what I wrote about Obama is like Rosie O’Donnell insulting someone for being obese.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“SBJ is still making lame excuses. We are putting KSM on trial, regardless of what he said in the past. The Bush/Cheney clowns did not try him, and SBJ claims that is a lie.”?
Again, what Bush did was irrelevant. That Bush did not try this guy is not a defense for trying him a terrorist mass-murderer in the same courts where American citizens are tried. What these people did was an act of war, not a common crime.
And again, mentioning Bush is not some trump card in every debate concerning the actions of Obama, and those who think it is are intellectually lazy morons.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
According to Quarterbrain’s reasoning, the reason that Bush/Cheney never got around to trying KSM was because it would have been “a political reconing” against Bush/Cheney, theirselves. That is a very revealing admission, on the part of Quarterbrain. Bush/Cheney could not try KSM. In other words, they were Appeasing this Terrorist, that they had in their custody for several years.
edit;
reckoning…
“How can we prosecute the war on al qaeda if terrorists are not considered at war with us?”
ASK GEORGE W BUSH AND DICK CHENEY AND JOHN YOO AND ABU GONZALES THAT QUESTION – THEY ARE WHO DID THIS.
*sigh*
They did what? Per the supreme court their mistake was in not treating the al qaeda scum as POWs, but that doesn’t mean they can’t receive justice in military tribunals or that we can’t prosecute the war.
Congress declared war on al qaeda – Bush et al prosecuted that war. If we treat al qaeda terrorists as simple criminals then congress may as well rescind the authorization for the use of force and we should stop killing anyone in Afghanistan with drones and we should stop gathering and acting on intelligence and we should read all terrorist “suspects” their rights and take care gathering evidence at the crime scene (no longer battlefield) and we should prosecute the many hundreds of terrorists (sorry, common criminals) we capture in Afghanistan and Pakistan in civil courts.
Everyone who doesn’t have a “Yes We Did” bumper sticker on their car, or is not a sycophantic worshipper who refuses to criticize Obama for absolutely anything he does knows that the purpose of this is to try and score points against the previous administration and by extension the opposing party.
PS I will still be filibustering health care, sycophants.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
Joe Lamebrainman says that what Bush failed to do is irrelevant. Go ahead folks; laugh your arses off now.
Liam the Liar obviously stepped out for a few drinks, a few too many drinks. He’s turned from frothing lies to frothing nonsense and backtracking.
All, I got the age and party breakdown of CNN’s national poll:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/terrorism/opposition-to-terror-trial-strong-among-dems-independents-young/
“Joe Lamebrainman says that what Bush failed to do is irrelevant. Go ahead folks; laugh your arses off now.”
Hey Liam, I challenge you to give me a cogent explanation as to why Bush’s failure to try these guys means they should be tried in civilian courts instead of before the military commissions for the express purpose of trying these scum.
You can’t do it. But I suspect your will try to answer with “Bush did [x]” or “Bush didn’t do [y]“, because evidently that has something to do with trying this guy in NY instead of Guantanamo. The left better be glad Bush was president, because if he weren’t it wouldn’t even have that skimpy figleaf for Obama’s astounding weakness and incompetence.
The Obama Record; Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
And of course only young, brown, and socialist opinions are legitimate. Gosh you people sure are post-racial. Continued good luck in trying to steal from all of us who aren’t unemployed hipsters.
“All, I got the age and party breakdown of CNN’s national poll”
Oops.
Now I guess the dimmer bulbs on this site (read Liam and Tena) will have to use a variation of the Moran argument. Who knew that 64% of the country including over half of Democrats and almost 2/3s of independents were un-American? Of course, it is a matter of faith amongst the commenters here that Republicans are un-American.
I almost forgot:
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
At least Mr. Sargent has the guts to post the results. I will commend him for that. Now if he can provide explations for the ridiculously skewed partisan sampling in the CNN and Washington Post polls, I would be even more impressed.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“They did what? Per the supreme court their mistake was in not treating the al qaeda scum as POWs, but that doesn’t mean they can’t receive justice in military tribunals or that we can’t prosecute the war.”
Correct.
And Democrats including Holder agreed that Geneva didn’t apply. But “not POW” does not mean Art III trial is required.
Big deal. So Bush/Cheney have fear mongered long enough to turn America into a nation of trembling cowards, who are now afraid of their own shadows.
O’er The Land Of Raw Fear,
And The Home Of The Knave.
Now the French can turn the tables, and start calling Americans; “Surrender Monkeys”.
France, England, Germany and Spain are not Afraid. They try Terrorists in their court systems. Bush/Cheney have succeeded in making Americans into a nation of bed wetting cowards.
Here is part of Holder’s announcement. Alone, it puts the lie to the claims made by Tena, Liam, Ethan et al that Bush did nothing with KSM, that Holder was left no choice because of a Bush-cause “legal mess,” etc.
“Five detainees at Guantanamo have been charged before military commissions with participation in the 9/11 plot: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Walid Muhammed Salih Mubarak Bin Attash, Ramzi Bin Al Shibh, Ali Abdul-Aziz Ali, and Mustafa Ahmed Al Hawsawi. Those proceedings have been stayed since February, as have the proceedings pending in military commissions against four other detainees accused of different crimes. A case in military commissions against the alleged mastermind of the Cole bombing, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, was withdrawn in February.
For the past several months, prosecutors at the Department of Justice have been working diligently with prosecutors from the Pentagon’s Office of Military Commissions to review the case of each detainee at Guantanamo who has been referred for prosecution. Over the past few weeks, I have personally reviewed these cases, and in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, have made determinations about the prosecution of ten detainees now held at Guantanamo, including those charged in the 9/11 plot and the alleged mastermind of the Cole bombing.
Today, I am announcing that the Department of Justice will pursue prosecution in federal court of the five individuals accused of conspiring to commit the 9/11 attacks. Further, I have decided to refer back to the Department of Defense five defendants to face military commission trials, including the detainee who was previously charged in the USS Cole bombing.”
“it puts the lie to the claims made by Tena, Liam, Ethan et al that Bush did nothing with KSM”
I never said Bush did nothing with KSM.
Liar.
Oh, but thank you for posting the method by which they determined that the trials should be in a Federal judicial system.
Question for QB, SBJ:
Do you think the combined efforts of prosecutors at DoJ AND the Pentagon got this wrong?
I really don’t give a rat’s ****** about public opinion on this. the public’s view of how the criminal justice system, and in particular the federal criminal justice system, works is so deficient that you might as well be polling about whether they believe CERN will find the Higgs boson.
Bottom line is that they are going to execute this evil ******* after he gets his scrupulously fair trial and it would be a huge propaganda coup for the enemy if that excution came after what could, with some fairness, be portrayed as a military kangaroo court.
“I never said Bush did nothing with KSM.
Liar.
Oh, but thank you for posting the method by which they determined that the trials should be in a Federal judicial system.”
Ethan, you lying little weasel. You really think no one would notice that you chopped this off my statement that you selectively quoted:
“, that Holder was left no choice because of a Bush-cause “legal mess,” etc.”?
Please deny that you said that.
And thanks for confirming that you didn’t even know why Holder claimed this decision was made or how, and that you were just blabbering in complete ignorance with your claims that it was because Bush left such a legal mess.
Thanks in other words for confirming that you are a liar and ignoramus. I keep telling you that you would be a better liar if you were so ignorant.
Have to agree with Steve on that point. Polling on questions like this is kind of pointless except for political pulse-taking, whether or not I like the results.
“”"“, that Holder was left no choice because of a Bush-cause “legal mess,” etc.”?”"”
Holder WAS left no choice because of the legal mess left by Bush.
Or maybe you can explain to me why prosecutors at DOJ and the Pentagon decided not to go forward and try KSM by military tribunal.
A) I am not a liar and B) your case on this issue is softer than the mush inside your skull.
Btw, your whining is really getting pathetic. Sad. You’d rather prove that you were right than have a discussion like adults.
You still haven’t answered my basic yes or no question:
Do you think the combined efforts of prosecutors at DoJ AND the Pentagon got this wrong?
I’m really just curious as to your opinion on that question. I don’t understand why you refuse to answer.
Oh and if you do decide to answer, no whining this time please, okay? We’re adults. I just want to hear your opinion.
Those Americans who think that KSM and his thugs deserve to be treated as if they were common criminals have demonstrated above that they have hatred for those who feel that KSM and his thugs are terrorists that deserve the same treatment given the Nazi leaders at Nuremburg. Additionally,many of your statements take the view that being “old, white, and Repugs” make their views reprehesible. Hey, you guys, that makes you all racists, age discriminators and illiberal(not accepting of diversity.) You really must do betterif you want to be a true liberal.