Happy Hour Roundup: House GOP May Force Vote On 9/11 Mastermind
* The House GOP leadership hopes to force Dems into an awkward vote on the plan to try Khalid Sheik Mohammed in New York, a leadership aide tells me. The idea: If the House Dem leadership brings a big scheduled appropriations bill up for a vote this week, Republicans will likely offer a motion calling for a ban on using any Federal funds to transfer KSM and co-conspirators to New York.
“Now that the White House has announced it is ignoring the will of the American people and going ahead with this, the stakes are a lot higher,” the aide says. “Will House Democratic Leadership bring this bill up for a vote this week?”
**********************************************
* Mark Kirk, the GOP Senate candidate in Illinois, is mulling a similar tactic to block a proposal to transfer some Gitmo detainees to an Illinois facility.
* With Republicans doubling down on KSM, a new CNN poll finds that a big majority, 64%, want Mohammed tried in a military court. Which is to reiterate that the Obama administration took the politically difficult route here.
* The Republican National Committee’s health insurance provider does not cover “end of life consultations,” it turns out. Think Progress noted last week that the RNC’s provider, Cigna, recommends that customers consider such end of life consultations — which have been attacked by multiple GOPers — and asked whether the RNC’s plan covered them.
The answer is No. Chris Curran, a Cigna spokesman, tells me that while Cigna encourages customers to discuss such issues with their customers, the company doesn’t offer any insurance product that covers them.
* How low will Obama go in the quest to show foreign leaders respect in their own countries? Unspeakably low, one imagines, but it turns out that Nixon bowed too.
* Say what you will about Sarah Palin, but her particular brand of Evangelism is not hospitable to racism.
* Is Chuck DeVore, the Tea Party candidate in the California Senate race, a birther? In an interview with Dave Weigel, he seemed to hint at Yes.
* But then his spokesman quickly walked it back.
* A well known conservative judicial activist breaks with the GOP, calls for Republicans to dial back the filibusters and let the debate flow.
* An abortion rights group goes up on the air with an ad attacking the Stupak amendment. The ad’s worth watching, but is it too little, too late?
* Can a bill pass the House without Stupak? Here’s one route.
* And here’s a sensible proposal from Joe Klein to his fellow reporters: When Bill Kristol spreads rumors about Democrats, don’t believe them.
This blog’s homepage is here. RSS feed here. Twitter feed here. Email me here.
“With Republicans doubling down on KSM, a new CNN poll finds that a big majority, 64%, want Mohammed tried in a military court. Which is to reiterate that the Obama administration took the politically difficult route here.”
I don’t understand that. The only thing I can think that those people are thinking is that in a military court, they think he won’t have the same protections he will have in a civilian court.
Americans are bloodthirsty people and they just want his blood. I don’t think most care about his having a trial at all. And that’s why the justice system should always be above public opinion. The Judiciary is not about public opinion and unfortunately the Victim’s Movement started trying to make it about public opinion and that’s just wrong.
MADD – sorry – but they are wrong, too, and have managed to skew the whole system toward revenge.
Tena — agreed — I don’t think it’s fully appreciated how big a risk the administration took to do this.
“Viola. Clyburn’s ten votes are pretty easy to find.”
Ooooo, I like it.
“I don’t think it’s fully appreciated how big a risk the administration took to do this.”
I know, Greg. I wish just once one of his most strident critics, Glenn Greenwald would be the ideal person, given the issue, would finally give him some props for doing the right things instead of the expedient things. When does Obama do the expedient politically-motivated-and-nothing- else thing?
We just 8 years of nonstop political ideologically driven policy. I’d love it if people would see that he doesn’t operate that way – he really thinks about what is right and what is best for the country.
Maybe people have forgotten what that looks like.
And now I will get the usual accusations of being a cheerleader. Actually I just feel so grateful that Obama is the president he is after the 8 years of hell, that I don’t have room for anger at him when I don’t agree with him. I’m so grateful that he obviously thinks about things first – a lot, and he has a first-class brain.
OMFG. DeVore represents CA’s 70th Assy District in Irvine and Laguna Beach. That’s where I used to live (LB) and where I did grad school (Irvine). That SOB used to be MY assemblyman until I moved back north in mid-2005. Feh.
Is he a birther? No, of course not. Not any more than most apparent birthers are — i.e., they know better but find it politically convenient to pretend they at least might be.
Being a GOOPer is all about brand management, doncha know?
“Say what you will about Sarah Palin, but her particular brand of Evangelism is not hospitable to racism. ”
Well she certainly didn’t walk that talk about racial reconciliation during the campaign with her audiences.
The founding fathers provided for a legal system which has always sought to try the accused in the jurisdiction in which they allegedly committed the crime. Why, all of a sudden, is this notion dangerous to democracy?
In their petulantly reflexive anti-Obama reaction to this, they are impugning not Obama, but the founding fathers themselves. Were Jefferson, Madison, et al., weak on national security because they set up this system?
For well over 200 years our system has been perfectly capable of functioning while defendants are tried within our borders. Why do the murderous actions of less than two dozen thugs with utility knives offset the entire previous history of our nation?
Who is empowering the terrorists?
“, is this notion dangerous to democracy?”
You tell me.
“Who is empowering the terrorists?”
Same people who have been doing the terrorists’ work for them since 9/12/01.
“Republicans will likely offer a motion calling for a ban on using any Federal funds to transfer KSM and co-conspirators to New York”
Um, WHAT?!
What’s next, is Jim DeMint going to visit KSM in prison with a bouquet of flowers and a nail file?
WTF?!
W-T-F?! I mean, in all seriousness! What the ___ is going on here?
Ethan – it’s damned weird but I think that they could be on fire and if Obama said they were and showed them a picture of the flames coming off their heads they’d deny it until there was nothing left but ashes.
They’re against anything and everything Obama says or does.
Obama has not abolished or ruled out military tribunals for foreign terrorists and unlawful combatants.
Why is that, do you think? Is he impugning the founders? Trashing the Constitution?
Obama has a mine field to navigate. Bush and his torturers and his administration buried the mines.
It’s a balance – he has to keep the country safe while trying to disarm all the goddamn mines Bush left everywhere.
QB, what do you think about this:
“Republicans will likely offer a motion calling for a ban on using any Federal funds to transfer KSM and co-conspirators to New York”
“The fact that the government is not prepared (indeed, it could not responsibly be prepared) to release the al-Qaeda suspects upon a civilian-trial acquittal renders the entire trial process dishonest.”
Forgot where I copied that from. Military trials for folks who declare war and commit acts of war.
SBJ, what are your comments on this:
“Republicans will likely offer a motion calling for a ban on using any Federal funds to transfer KSM and co-conspirators to New York”
“:Military trials for folks who declare war and commit acts of war.”
Um, if you are declaring KSM someone who committed an act of war,that makes him subject to the Geneva Conventions. The Conventions that outlaw waterboarding.
Kind of complicates a military trial, too. I think people think evidence gained through waterboarding is going to come in a military trial. I wouldn’t bet on it.
I think that congress has a lot of power when it comes to disbursing funds. I believe many progressives wanted to offer motions calling for a ban on using any Federal funds to fight the wars?
I’d like to see KSM in a military trial – perhaps one that is modified from what congress has currently conceived. I’m not sure how congress can prevent Obbama’s plan to try KSM in Federal court. Perhaps this is the best way to exert their influence?
“I’d like to see KSM in a military trial ”
I’d like to see your reason – you’ve yet to give one.
Folks seem to have a lot of misconceptions about intelligence gathered during interrogation. Such intelligence is not designed, and was never intended, for use in a trial. It is intended for use by our military and intelligence services.
It’s my opinion that KSM has committed war crimes.
SBJ, please answer the question.
What do YOU think about this:
“Republicans will likely offer a motion calling for a ban on using any Federal funds to transfer KSM and co-conspirators to New York”
NOT ‘do they have the power,’ NOT ’should it be a military court’….. please answer the question I’ve asked you or decline to answer. Don’t give me this pathetic coward cr@p. Answer the question.
“It’s my opinion that KSM has committed war crimes.”
That would make him a POW and the Bush Administration adamantly opposed making POWs of KSM or any other people they deemed “terrorists.”
@tena: Huh?
@ethan: Wasn’t it John McEnroe who furiously screamed, “Answer the question!” I choose to not participate in your tantrums…
“@tena: Huh?”
What do you mean “huh?”
Everyone the Bush administration picked up as a terrorist was deemed not a POW but an ‘enemy combatant’ which effectively took the outside the jurisdiction of both military courts and civilian and kept them in a legal limbo.
Being a POW means you get rights under the Geneva Conventions. Being an “enemy combatant” means you don’t exist.
Get it? I get so tired of you saying “huh” – are you that dumb?
If you want to charge KSM with committing war crimes and try him in a military trial you’re going to have to reclassify him as a POW and that brings the Geneva Conventions into it and they ban waterboarding.
We waterboarded him 183 times.
Do you begin at all to see what kind of legal minefields the Bush Administration left for this one?
@QB,
Methinks that some of them are best tried in civilian court- those accused of terrorism against American civilians. Those being held for their actions against US Military in a combat zone should face military tribunals (although they should have been given POW status unless guilty of war crimes- it is now much too late for this).
Keep in mind, Holder would not have decided on civilian trials if he didn’t think for a minute that the case was bulletproof,and with an American jury, these guys are going to fry (even though thats a terrible idea regardless of your stance on the death penalty- it martyrs them, which will not help us in any way).
Bravo Tena on the war crimes stuff. That is all.
So if I’m following Mark Kirk’s logic correctly — and I’ll grant that “logic” might be an inappropriate term here — KSM is more of a threat to the Illinois public than John Wayne Gacy was.
Oooooo-kay.
So, there’s been three convictions of Guantanimo detainees if I hear correctly earlier today and the Republican cowards, who are afraid to house these guys in maximum detention facilities in the U.S., want to try these guys in military tribunals?
So, the Republicans/Libertarians on this board refuse to answer a basic question about their own party’s tactics?
Since when are you afraid to give your opinions?
Oh right, when your party is helping terrorists, that’s right I forgot.
Remember that hospital emergency room treatment for the uninsured the Republicans tout by saying everyone has access to medical care-oops looks like it hasn’t been working out too well for some of them.
“CHICAGO — Uninsured patients with traumatic injuries, such as car crashes, falls and gunshot wounds, were almost twice as likely to die in the hospital as similarly injured patients with health insurance, according to a troubling new study.
The findings by Harvard University researchers surprised doctors and health experts who have believed emergency room care was equitable.
“This is another drop in a sea of evidence that the uninsured fare much worse in their health in the United States,” said senior author Dr. Atul Gawande, a Harvard surgeon and medical journalist.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/16/uninsured-patients-twice_n_359718.html
Gov. Pawlenty is bending over backwards to please the Tea Party by denying his previous stance on Climate Change and the aggressive legislation he was for before he was against.
What a joke!
“Speaking to the Economist recently, Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R-MN) told reporters that he questions the science underpinning climate change. Pawlenty explained that while the earth might be warming, it is unclear “to what extent that is the result of natural causes.” As ThinkProgress has noted, Pawlenty has veered sharply to the right to appease a right-wing, tea party base. Although the tea party movement demands strict adherence to far right positions, as a Democracy Corps study shows, much of the movement sees political issues through a prism that is simply divorced from reality.
In appeasing the tea party base, Pawlenty not only dismisses the stark reality that human-caused carbon emissions are the largest contributor to climate change, but he also sacrifices his own credibility. Over the course of the last three years, Pawlenty has gone from an outspoken proponent of clean energy to a Glenn Beck pandering climate change denier.”
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/16/pawlenty-science-teabag/
“Republicans will likely offer a motion calling for a ban on using any Federal funds to transfer KSM and co-conspirators to New York”
GO AHEAD! I think they should. House Dems need to step up and support this administration and stand up to these cowards. CALL THEIR BLUFF!
@Greg – In an earlier post today, you used the phrase “Palin and her ghostwriters”. Thank you.
I guess this story reinforces the point that for Republicans it’s politics before country. Huckabee makes the case that the down side for Obama on the KSM trial his he might lose reelection.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/16/huckabee-obama-will-lose_n_359647.html
Why, all of a sudden, is this notion dangerous to democracy?
DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND??????? THEY’RE TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THEY HAVE SUPERPOWERS OF EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF YOU LET THEM INTO THE COUNTRY WE’RE ALL DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You don’t believe me? Just as Quarterback. He’ll tell you!
A story to keep the teabaggers happy and show we’re fair and balanced around here.
“New York Gov. David Paterson said today he doesn’t agree with the Obama administration’s decision to try five 9/11 suspects, including self-proclaimed mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, in New York City, partially because New Yorkers are “having trouble getting over” the attacks.
“This is not a decision that I would have made,” Paterson said according to the Daily News.”
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/paterson-doesnt-want-911-suspects-tried-in-nyc.php?ref=fpblg
I don’t know if anyone saw KO tonight and the story on the Free Clinic in New Orleans this past weekend. This was one of the ones he and Maddow helped raise money for. It literally broke my heart.
We shouldn’t even be having the debate, the only issue should be how best to serve the American people during this crisis. I will never listen to anyone arguing against HCR again, they are not only selfish, corrupt, incompetent or idiotic, they are also immoral, IMHO.
Bernie, shouldn’t that be “Palin and her ghostwriters–and her ghostreaders”? I really wonder how much she’s read of what goes out under her name, and that includes the book.
Imsinca, those free health clinic numbers are staggering. If I remember correctly, 90% left with two or more diagnoses and 82% with one that was life threatening. And the big majority of the patients had jobs.
The right wing’s fear of terrorists cripples their ability to fight them or even judge them.
Why are right wingers such cowards?
With few exceptions*, Republicans are cowards. The majority of the Republican leadership evaded combat and yet have always been quick to smear combat veterans.
Even now, it’s a Republican who is preventing combat vets from receiving their veteran’s benefits.
As cowardly as Republicans are who evade fighting it’s perhaps even slimier that Republicans refuse to even pay for the wars they send other parent’s children off to fight.
*I honor those rare and commendable exceptions to the rule that Republicans are cowards.
ABC, all the objections and talking points raised by Republicans just seem more and more ridiculous to me the more we hear about what’s really happening to the state of Health Care in this country. When my niece died in 2008, I thought it was a rare occurrence and now the more we find out the angrier I become. We could literally be saving lives, and a lot of them, with HCR and Mitch let’s stall McConnell is proud of the fact they are making it difficult. It’s just too hard to comprehend.
“With Republicans doubling down on KSM, a new CNN poll finds that a big majority, 64%, want Mohammed tried in a military court. Which is to reiterate that the Obama administration took the politically difficult route here.”
Yet again the hypocrisy on this site is simply staggering. When I voice my opposition to the public option and state I will filibuster it (I will), the people on this site point to polls showing I am in the wrong and therefore I am acting simply because I am a shill of the insurance companies. But when Obama does something that a majority of the American people disagree with, this site tries to paint it as some super duper courageous act. The hypocrisy is staggering.
“When I voice my opposition to the public option and state I will filibuster it (I will), the people on this site point to polls showing I am in the wrong and therefore I am acting simply because I am a shill of the insurance companies.”
Reconciliation biitches.
By right winger “Joe Liebermann” logic:
Since Americans want to get out of Afghanistan and Iraq we should leave.
And since Americans overwhelmingly love Medicare, than all Americans should receive Medicare.
But right wingers like Joe Liebermann operate by The Right Wing’s First Rule: Rules are for Other People.
Why are right wingers such cowards?
“With few exceptions*, Republicans are cowards. The majority of the Republican leadership evaded combat and yet have always been quick to smear combat veterans.”
The Republican leadership has smeared combat veterans? Ok, I challenge you to provide some specific quotes of the Republican leadership smearing combat veterans.
“Even now, it’s a Republican who is preventing combat vets from receiving their veteran’s benefits.”
Who is it every year who calls for the slashing of the Defense budget? Who is it earlier in the year who floated the idea of making disabled veterans pay for their own medical bills, before the backlash made such an option politically untenable? Who is it that is ignoring his own generals and refusing to send more troops to Afghanistan to support the troops that are fighting and dying there? Which side of the political spectrum called Gen. Petraeus a traitor? Which side of the political spectrum protests and vandalizes recruiting centers? Which political party works to rid high schools of JROTC programs and tries to circumvent the Solomon Amendment? Which political party prohibited the Marine Corps from filming in San Francisco? Which political party has members who have stated countless times that those serving in the military are only doing so because they couldn’t get real jobs (with Charlie Rangel being a prominent example)? Which political party had a member who stated, I am paraphrasing, “You can either go to college or end up in Iraq”? Which political party’s Senator compared the troops at Guantanamo to the SS? Which Senate leader was constantly stating that the military had lost the war in Iraq? Which president had a founder of Code Pink, Jodie Evans, as one of his chief fundraisers? A Senator from which political party compared troops in Vietnam to Genghis Khan? Which party has had one of its members call the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan “mercenaries”? Which party, in multiple states, most notably VA and NY, has fought against extending the deadline for absentee ballots from soldiers in war zones? Which party had senators, not private citizens, who smeared John McCain’s military service? Which party has a congressman who called certain Marines “cold blooded killers” and practically convicted them before they were tried for murder charges in Iraq, charges for which they were acquitted? Which party has a Senator who accused soldiers in Iraq of “terrorizing women and children”?
The smeard directed at our troops by the left and the Democratic Party are legion. Claiming that it is the Republican party with a history of being anti-military is so pathetically laughable it is amazing anyone would even attempt it. And the charge of evading combat can most certainly be applied to a whole host of Democrats as well.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“By right winger “Joe Liebermann” logic:”
Lieberman only has one “n” jackass. And I think Jim Webb’s explanation for why the terrorists shouldn’t be tried in civilian courts is very articulate. Quick, you better smear him as un-American. Oh, wait, he is a Democrat and different rules apply. Many other Dems are opposed as well, such as Gov. Paterson of NY. Those who planned and carried out these attacks declared war on the United States; they are enemy combatants, not common criminals. They should not treated the same was as American citizens. Why do you think Congress passed a law in 2006 to allow for these individuals to be tried by military commissions? Holder is using these very commissions to have other detainees tried at Guantanamo. Everyone who doesn’t want to fell@te Obama knows the reasons for doing this are purely political. It is pathetic how unwilling you unthinking Obamabot sycophants are to criticize Obama.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“They should not treated the same was as American citizens.”
That should read “they should not be treated the same way as American citizens”.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“I guess this story reinforces the point that for Republicans it’s politics before country. Huckabee makes the case that the down side for Obama on the KSM trial his he might lose reelection.”
Give me a f’ing break. The only reason Obama is having these guys tried in NY is politics. And Huckabee is stating fact. If these guys are acquitted, Obama’s presidency is over (well, even more over than it was when unemployment hit 10.2%)
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
Was watching the Daily Show….he showed a clip of everyone freaking out, especially on Fox and Friends, about KSM being tried in our courts and Gretchen I think let slip he could let off because of torture. I’m pretty sure she didn’t mean to say torture.
Hopefully someone could go back on the tapes and ask her if she thinks the Bush admin tortured prisoners and if it violated the conventions against torture Reagan signed.
The Lieberman puppet above wants these guys to go into the courts that so far have successfully convicted only three detainees and not the courts that have convicted dozens of terrorists successfully. The sock poppet doesn’t make much sense.
“How low will Obama go in the quest to show foreign leaders respect in their own countries.’
Not quite as low as the left will go in attempting to explain away Obama’s pathetic obsequiousness. Of the 47 world leaders and diplomats in Japan, only Obama bowed. As I have stated before, the leader of the free world does not bow before a monarch. Trying to use Nixon as some sort of defense is absolutely pathetic. Are you going to search the archives and try to dig up photos of Nixon giving the Prime Minister of Britain eight-tracks? Are you going to try and find photos of Nixon giving the queen an early example of a portable media device? Does Nixon’s bow also excuse Obama’s bow in Saudi Arabia, or does it only excuse the one in Japan? And at least Nixon has somewhat of an excuse. The gentlemen oppposite him is clearly bowing, whereas Akihito offered Obama his hand to shake. 46 other people had no problem shaking it in return without bowing so deep they could almost touch their toes.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“Obama is having these guys tried in NY is politics.” “a new CNN poll finds that a big majority, 64%, want Mohammed tried in a military court.” Hmm… good politics.
Stick to filibusters, really.
“The Lieberman puppet above wants these guys to go into the courts that so far have successfully convicted only three detainees and not the courts that have convicted dozens of terrorists successfully. The sock poppet doesn’t make much sense.”
Again, not really the issue here. The issue is trying enemy combatants, terrorists, in the same fashion as American citizens. It demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that this pathetic president quite simply doesn’t take the threat of terrorism seriously. Treating a man who masterminded the murder of 3000 Americans the same as an American citizen is absolutely pathetic, and eveyrone who doesn’t have a shrine to Obama in his house knows the motivations behind it are solely political. And if the conviction success rate is the motivating factor, why are is Holder using military commissions for other cases at Guantanamo? Such an explanation is more flimsy than Obama’s economic “record”.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
The sock puppet above doesn’t believe our courts can successfully convict these criminals as they did with Moussaui. The sock puppet doesn’t want this guy put to death. He’s hoping to keep this guy alive forever.
The sock puppet is protecting the life of the terrorists.
“Obama is having these guys tried in NY is politics”
Yeah, couldn’t possibly have any political motivations. Because none of the posters here and dozens of commentators haven’t floated the proposition that this is being done to take shots at the Bush administration. There couldn’t possibly be any political motive at all.
And politicians never ever, ever adopt stances that are deemed unpopular because they feel there will be some sort of political advantage in the end, do they? Why that has never happened in the history of this country.
I would call you an idiot, but it is already obvious.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“The sock puppet above doesn’t believe our courts can successfully convict these criminals as they did with Moussaui[sic]. The sock puppet doesn’t want this guy put to death. He’s hoping to keep this guy alive forever.’
You mean the same Moussaoui who avoided the death penalty because ONE juror held out during the penalty phase? That Moussaoui?
What was that about protecting the lives of terrorists?
Seriously, do you have to try hard to defeat your own arguments, or does it just come naturally to someone as stupid as you?
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
Sorry sock puppet. This administration is just cleaning up the constitutional and convention mess the incompetent administration before him left at his feet.
And to think, mindless shrills such as the sock puppet above still think the previous administration did good things for this country. On the contrary. The previous administrations lack of adherence to laws and conventions set for by previous, Republican mind you, administrations has left a legislative mess that will take at least a decade to clean up.
So sock puppet, Moussaoui was put into prison legally and indefinitely. What’s wrong with that? You’re going to argue that because he wasn’t put to death, we shouldn’t put the rest of the criminals through our courts?
Now you’re just not making any sense Bildgeman.
After tonight I change my mind. Don’t filibuster you will just F that up, leave that to Nelson or someone else.
And, I am not wasting my time with this nonsense. When you come down from whatever you’re on take another crack at this thought.
“Yeah, couldn’t possibly have any political motivations. Because none of the posters here and dozens of commentators haven’t floated the proposition that this is being done to take shots at the Bush administration. There couldn’t possibly be any political motive at all.
And politicians never ever, ever adopt stances that are deemed unpopular because they feel there will be some sort of political advantage in the end, do they? Why that has never happened in the history of this country.”
“The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention . It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today.
The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers relying on so-called ‘universal jurisdiction.’ Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution.”
Reagan after singing the UN Convention on Torture in 1984
Who would have guessed the rights hero would have condemned what they all aspire the U.S. to be, a terrorist endorsing country.
See, Reagan was smart sock puppet when he needed to be. He could understand what kind of predicaments a torturing nation could run into. Fast forward to today and what we find ourselves in with KSM and the others that were tortured for information and you can understand why Reagan has the foresight to sign and champion such a convention.
Where were the original bombers from the first attempt to take down the WTC tried? The crime was committed there and it should be tried there. The real issue is that most hope that a military trial would more likely to produced the desired verdict of guilty punishable by death than a civilian criminal court would.
“So sock puppet, Moussaoui was put into prison legally and indefinitely. What’s wrong with that? You’re going to argue that because he wasn’t put to death, we shouldn’t put the rest of the criminals through our courts?
Now you’re just not making any sense Bildgeman”
First, I have absolutely no clue who Bildgeman is. Second, I love how you try to change your argument after you were made to look like a fool. A few posts ago you wrote:
“The sock puppet doesn’t want this guy put to death. He’s hoping to keep this guy alive forever.”
About three minutes later you wrote:
“You’re going to argue that because he wasn’t put to death, we shouldn’t put the rest of the criminals through our courts”
Seems to me you were the moron “arguing” that letting terrorists live was a bad thing. Seems to me you were the moron who three minutes ago mocked me for wanting to keep these terrorists alive forever . That is a flip-flop pulled off with such speed it would make a politician envious.
“Sorry sock puppet. This administration is just cleaning up the constitutional and convention mess the incompetent administration before him left at his feet.”
Oh, so that is why some enemy combatants are being tried in a court that also tries American citizens and some are being tried at Guantanamo. And again, your “argument” makes no sense. Military commissions are perfectly legal and have been used by the US in every war since the founding of the republic. There are no outstanding Constitutional issues with the military commissions set forth in the law that took effect in 2006. Buy hey, I am sure you will come up with something stupid, because you are an idiot.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“Military commissions are perfectly legal”
Where does your torturing administration fit into your legal argument?
Right winger “Joe Lie berman” supports torture, don’t you know?
Right wingers also lied US into war, illegally spied on Americans, expanded the powers of government, and increased the US debt.
And all while the right wing falsely claimed that tax cuts, during a time of multiple wars, would make magic rainbow ponies.
That abortion ad would have been MUCH better if, instead of the nose job, the man was asking about viagra. Pointing out that insurance can covers pills that get guys hard, but outlaws abortions, is very effective.
Ethan,
I’ll answer your question — this one time — when you answer mine.
All, morning roundup posted:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/the-morning-plum-13/
“I’ll answer your question — this one time — when you answer mine.”
Oh lookee there. Boy wants to be intellectually honest and give a thoughtful reply — this one time. No thanks. I’ll pass.
Yeah, I knew you wouldn’t want to answer my question, Stalinist punk.