Happy Hour Roundup: Tea Partier Defends Plans To Burn Pelosi In Effigy
Update: We just got in touch with the mastermind behind a Tea Party group’s plans — widely remarked on today — to burn Nancy Pelosi and Tom Perriello in effigy at a rally to protest the House Dem health care plan.
Nigel Coleman, the Tea Party chairman in Danville, Virginia, said his group wasn’t backing off, and defended the plan as “not real violence” and reminiscent of the American Revolutionaries.
“Well, no one’s going to be harmed, actually — it’s not real violence,” Coleman told our reporter, Beth Marlowe. “We do know it’s gonna spark some controversy. But we’d like to get people talking.” He added that the Tea Party leadership realized the move risked being misinterpreted as a violent act but was “worth the risk.”
Coleman argued that history would be very kind to the Tea Party movement.
“Back in 1775, they burned images of the then-governor and sent him packing back to Great Britain and they were seen as patriots,” he said. “The Tea Party movement will be seen as patriots and heroes, like the civil right movement or women’s suffrage.”
***************************************************
* Some families of 9/11 victims are angry about the 9/11 trial in New York.
* But some 9/11 survivors are all for it: “If you’re afraid of terrorists, then they’ve already won. It’s poetic justice.”
* Jim Webb is not happy, says it will be “disruptive, costly, and potentially counterproductive.”
* Don’t know much about incoming White House counsel Bob Bauer, who’s inheriting a pretty thorny set of issues? Check out our big profile.
* Newt Gingrich spills the beans on a new Contract With America style project he’s working on with Michael Steele.
* Al Franken is making lots of trouble.
* Matt Yglesias, clearly burning with jealousy, does not share David Brooks’ admiration for Senator John Thune’s political talent, athletic body, or prairie suntan.
* Understatement of the Day: Anita Dunn, in a parting shot at Fox News, tells Sam Stein that Fox’s penchant for “inventing the story” is “not traditionally what you think of as news.”
* Steve Benen pokes some holes in the RNC’s effort to resolve the abortion mess.
* No CBO score of the Senate health care bill until next week.
* Sarah Palin taking her book tour to Fort Hood.
* Shocker of the Day: Palin’s new book goes rogue from reality.
* And here’s today’s installment in the Michele Bachmann chronicles, in which her approval rating in Minnesota checks in at a surprisingly respectable 51%.
Got anything else?
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If you’re afraid of terrorists, then they’ve already won.
Yep. I wonder why so many on the right are trying to help the terrorists win?
Since Huckabee has already gone public with his “I am appalled that the Republican party has been paying for abortions” statement;
Quiter Palin will have to try and top him on the outrage meter.
I predict that she will soon issue;
A triple dog dare nit-twitter, and in your Facebook, declaration of Voracious disaprovedliness on the whole un-godly diddleness of the entire thing.
Yup Yup You Betcha!
Greg, your bullet on Yglesias-Brooks-Thune is so funny, I’m glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I read it.
“I wonder why so many on the right are trying to help the terrorists win?”
B/c they’re terrorists?
” Newt Gingrich spills the beans on a new Contract With America style project he’s working on with Michael Steele.”
O be still my heart.
I think, Greg, you are rising to new heights of snark with each Happy Hour Roundup. This one is a gem.
“Matt Yglesias, clearly burning with jealousy, does not share David Brooks’ admiration for Senator John Thune’s political talent, athletic body, or prairie suntan.”
That totally cracked me up.
Have a great weekend all!
Peace out, Ethan.
What happened to Minnesota and Wisconsin?
Really, with numbers like Michelle gets in Minnesota, no one really should say anything about Texas.
Tena, maybe Minnesota and Texas can adopt each other as Sister States.
All, check out the update we just added: Tea Party leader defends plans to burn Nancy Pelosi in effigy as reminiscent of the American Revolution…
That Minnesota poll is by Rasmussen, which makes it questionable to start with.
But, aside from that, the poll has this interesting revelation:
“Even more telling, though, are the disapproval numbers from voters who don’t identify themselves as Ds or Rs: 14% of unaffiliated voters strongly disapprove of Klobuchar’s handling of her job, while Franken’s performance is strongly disapproved by 26 percent.
Bachmann, not to surprisingly, evokes the strongest disapproval, at 37percent.”
@greg: I’ve never understood what the problem is with burning a political figure in effigy – it’s an acknowledged form of political dissent, no?
Who said that God is on the side of Conservatives. Some one is looking out for us Progressives, by giving us the Teabaggers movement. It is the gift that keeps on giving.
I hope they grow big enough to take over the reins of The Republican party.
What does a person with Teabags hanging from their hat do, as soon as they return home from a rally?
Answer: Go soak their head!
OMG, sbj = are you suggesting that arson is okay?
Wow.
Just, wow.
But is it “acceptable” which is really different from “an acknowledged form of dissent”.
People acknowledge that Timoty McVeigh engaged in a form of dissent.
If burning in effigy is acceptable to the Right Wing Teabaggers, then they would not object to people burning The Pope in effigy?
I sure hope someone takes a video camera to that Tea Party.
Here’s an interesting post regarding Hasan and Fox’s unrelenting pursuit of labeling him a terrorist before all the facts are in. It’s possible he’s a mass murderer rather than a terrorist.
“It’s important to remember what mass-murder profiler Pat Brown told Fox’s Brian Kilmeade:
Brown: Well, Brian, actually, I think religion does not play a role in this. What we’re actually looking at is a typical mass murderer.
Mass murderers are either two age groups. They are either teenagers, who are disgruntled with where they are in life, and don’t think they’re going to be anything — those teenagers that say ‘I’m being bullied and nobody likes me, and so let me take everybody out — or they’re middle-aged men who are going downhill in life — they’re having problems with people, personality issues, you know, going up against authority. For whatever reasons, they’re failing, and then when they start failing they have to find something to hang their hat on, they have to blame something.
So he happened to pick what he picked. But I don’t think it really has anything to do with him being Muslim or any kind of “jihad.” I think he just wanted to kill people and this was his excuse.”
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/foxs-mass-leap-label-ft-hood-shootin
“If burning in effigy is acceptable to the Right Wing Teabaggers, then they would not object to people burning The Pope in effigy?”
I have no idea what “they” would find acceptable. I, personally, don’t understand the problem with burning an effigy of a political figure as a form of dissent.
“Al Franken is making lots of trouble.”
Uh, so it’s Al Franken’s fault that GOP Senators voted against really popular legislation now? If you read that Politico article, they make it sound like by even offering the amendment Sen. Franken is being partisan or trying to bait Republicans.
Seriously? What a horrible piece. Politico is such a joke of an outlet.
I suppose it’s a form of political dissent, burning someone in effigy, but I sort of doubt it’s value as a political strategy. It seems that some of the signs and images of the Bachmann “presser” backfired on them so they’re welcome to it.
The divide just keeps getting larger and larger and I really don’t think the majority of Americans would find this the best way to make a point politically.
I also see it as a dangerous standard to set, I mean she is the Speaker of the House, third in line. Who’s next Obama?
Imsinca – I’ve argued all along that Hasan was a sole mass murderer. He may have imagined himself on a one-man jihad, but he was no terrorist. He didn’t aim at a specific group swith the specific idea of terrorizing them into not doing or doing something. I think he flipped – like Charles Whitman, the UT Tower sniper; or the guy who shot up the Luby’s cafeteria.
I wish they’d get off this terrorist stuff, or treat everyone the same. They can start with the Pentacostalists. Four Texas women murdered their children because they thought Jesus wanted them to and they were all Pentacostalists.
That sounds as much to me like terrorism as this incident does.
Since The Vatican and The Catholic Bishops, are engaging in political advocacy against a women’s right to choose, that puts them in the political arena.
Therefore, if it is considered acceptable, by Right Wingers, to burn Speaker Pelosi in effigy, surely they will agree that it would be acceptable for Progressives to burn The Pope in effigy.
A response on the Al Franken and Politico piece from Think Progress.
“Thune is also claiming that Franken doesn’t really care about Jones and other rape victims whose employers have blocked them from seeking justice; he and other Democrats just wanted to “create a vote which they could use to attack Republicans.”
So basically, the only lesson they learned is that next time, they have to hide their votes when they decide to screw over women’s rights. That way, they can support their allies in the contracting business and the public will never find out.”
“it would be acceptable for Progressives to burn The Pope in effigy.”
Let’s go for it. And then let’s just cut to the chase and burn Jesus in effigy, along with his mother. Wrapped in an American flag.
The teabaggers constantly trot out racist imagery and invoke violent metaphors and wonder why the rest of the nation treats them as morons.
“Your Weekend Plans: Burn Bush in Effigy” -from Gawker.
Burning Bush in effigy was shown as a Daily Show moment of zen.
“MONTREAL — As George W. Bush joked with a business crowd inside a historic hotel ballroom Thursday, hundreds of people outside the room cheered while he was being burned in effigy.”
Here’s a youtube link with several Bush burning effigy videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-RV2MHNwnM
The point? I have no problem at all with burning Bush in effigy – no problem with tena’s plans for the pope or Jesus, either. So why should anyone here have a problem with an effigy of Pelosi being burned?
I have stayed out of the Hassan debate up until now, because I wanted to let the families of the fallen have a respectful space to mourn their losses.
I consider Hassan to have perpetrated a coldly calculated act of terrorism, with the intention of killing as many of our troops as possible.
He was communicating with a known promoter of terrorist attacks against the USA, and he had already equated such an attack as being the very same as a US soldier thrown himself on a grenade to save his comrades. That is a clear statement of a person who was defending the most cowardly form of terrorism, to inflict mass casualties, and that is exactly what he did.
What Tim McVeigh did, was an act of Terrorism, and so was what this Hassan person did.
What led up to their arriving at those decisions and actions, does not justify or change what they did.
Both of them engaged in horrific acts of terrorism. I am not going to debate this. Others have their opinions, which differ from mine, but I just wanted to spell out, in no uncertain terms, that I consider Hassan to be a terrorist, who perpetrated a heinous act of Terrorism.
I live in Minnesota. Maple Grove to be exact. Michele Bachman is great. We love her. Can’t wait to re-elect her.
Also, Al Franken is a jackass, a moron and an utter embarrassment to our great state. Then again, we elected Jesse Ventura so why am I surprised that we elected this goofy looking far left nut bag?
“Maple Grove to be exact. Michele Bachman is great. We love her. Can’t wait to re-elect her.”
What are they putting in the water up there?
Whatever it is, it’s the same stuff they’re using in South Carolina.
Hope you’re real proud.
Politico.com is a Republican hack outfit.
Politico was literally funded by a Republican sugar daddy to push right wing narratives.*
Which is fine in and of itself, the real shame is that the corporate media keeps pushing Politico.com’s right wing story lines.
Right wing Politico.com political operatives masquerading as journalists are one of the reasons I don’t miss watching PBS NewsHour anymore, something I had watched every night for years and years.
PBS NewsHour’s host Gwen Ifill would bring on Politico.com’s right wing propagandists, falsely act like they were nonpartisan analysts, and then she would help them push right wing talking points.
It’s was offensive and obscene to repeatedly watch the right wing framing of PBS host Gwen Ifill play her little fiction games with the Republican paid Politico.com operative.
Again, while it’s absolutely fine for Republicans to build their propaganda outlets, like they did with Politico.com and FOX, the real offense is when it infects what should otherwise be legitimate news outlets.
* Has Politico.com made a profit yet? Or is it still on the same Wingnut-Welfare diet that Republican Messiah Moon owned Washington Times has been on all these years?
“He added that the Tea Party leadership realized the move risked being misinterpreted as a violent act but was “worth the risk.”
WOW worth the risk that you might be threatening the second in the presidential line of succession. Ok.
NewsRef – “Which is fine in and of itself, the real shame is that the corporate media keeps pushing Politico.com’s right wing story lines.”
It’s the thinking-Conservative’s Drudge.
Wow, Tena. Way to be narrow minded. Obviously anyone who doesn’t see the world the way you do has to be mentally defective. So much for liberal tolerance.
Barry,
Are you the Queen of Minnesota, because you use the Royal “we” or is it that you just have a frog in your pocket, or is it not a frog, but something that just jumped up when you started fantasizing about Michele.
Did you see Michele get Leid, on the house floor, on Saturday.
Either way Liam, the guy will face the death penalty, I just like to be careful labeling people before I know all the facts. At least you, unlike Fox and Friends aren’t pre-occupied with the fact that he’s Muslim, and I wouldn’t expect you to be.
Have a great Friday all!!! Even qb.
Re effigy burning…I think sbj has this one right, actually. In Canada, Britain and the US there is a long tradition of this as a symbolic means of protest (lots of it done by us folks on the left in the sixties, for example).
But I liked this bit from the teabaggery spokesguy…
“The Tea Party movement will be seen as patriots and heroes, like the civil right movement or women’s suffrage.”
As we all recall, it was particularly the southern states who stood firm against overwhelming odds and unthinking traditions in their brave fight for the rights of women and blacks.
Corrected:
Republican Michelle Bachmann “is a jackass, a moron and an utter embarrassment to our great state [of Minnesota].”
Michelle Bachmann is insane. Literally.
I feel deeply sorry for those citizens in Republican Michelle Bachmann’s district that are unfortunately outvoted by the fanatic zealots that keep voting for the unstable and increasingly militant right wing extremism of Bachmann.
On the one hand, it’s good for the rest of the country to have a touchstone to know how far the fanatic lunacy of the right wing has gone.
Republican Bachman is a perfect example of fanatic right wing lunacy.
On the other hand, Minnesotans distinguished themselves with the election of Democratic Senator Al Franken.
For that, I’d like to personally thank every Al Franken voter in Minnesota.
Re Yglesias, Brooks and Thune (sounds like a law firm)…
As Matt says, the project to somehow wrestle together a new sort of Republicanism is a valid one and it isn’t the first time Brooks has argued for sanity in this regard. I think his choice of Thune as a hopeful representative of some new wave looks to us as an imperceptible ripplet is because the choices are so paltry. The element that frightens me most of all about the modern right is that it has eaten its own young.
Correction of the corrected correction:
Republican Michelle Bachmann “is a jackass, a moron and an utter embarrassment to our great state [of Minnesota].”
Michelle Bachmann is insane. Literally.
I feel deeply sorry for those citizens in Republican Michelle Bachmann’s district that are unfortunately outvoted by the fanatic zealots that keep voting for the unstable and increasingly militant right wing extremism of Bachmann.
On the one hand, it’s good for the rest of the country to have a touchstone to know how far the fanatic lunacy of the right wing has gone.
Republican Bachman is a perfect example of fanatic right wing lunacy.
On the other hand, Minnesotans distinguished themselves with the election of Democratic Senator Al Franken.
For that, I’d like to personally thank every Al Franken voter in Minnesota.
“Understatement of the Day”…?
Mr. Sargent (and WPO) showing partisan colors? I thought that this site was affiliated with a real news organization.
“Wow, Tena. Way to be narrow minded. Obviously anyone who doesn’t see the world the way you do has to be mentally defective. So much for liberal toleranc”
Are you making fun of the mentally disabled? Sbj will get you for that.
“Mr. Sargent (and WPO) showing partisan colors? I thought that this site was affiliated with a real news organization.”
Horrors! I faint…nay, I fall like a dying swan into the velvet void.
What can the world be coming to? Greg – I think you’re going to prison. I know you’re going to hell.
Barry from Maple Grove, the ironist: trashes Al Franken, and then gets all huffy at what he perceives to be Tena’s lack of liberal tolerance.
Matt at 7:30 — What’s with the Mr. Sargent, any relation to Bilgewater? This is a BLOG, which kinda sorta instantly gives it an “editorial” quality, and, thus, a point of view.
Greg,
You buried the lede on the headline for:
But some 9/11 survivors are all for it:
It should have been this from the story:
“Bring ‘em to New York, and hang ‘em from the Statue of Liberty.”
As to the “burning in effigy”, it certainly qualifies as free speech.
(Though starting fires in public spaces should certainly be subject to regulation.)
The larger point, though, is what it says about the speakers. Until now, the Mad Hatter teabaggers’ “speech” has largely been of the verbal and visually theatrical kinds.
This directs that visual theater in a specifically violent way which is being deliberately acted out.
And lets be clear, burning someones image can be seen as a highly threatening gesture. I’m puzzled how anyone could see burning someone’s image as anything but an intention to intimidate (terrorize) someone.
The symbolism isn’t much different than burning crosses.
If there were ever any lefties that burned Bush in effigy I would have thought they were idiots, but I’m not aware that it ever happened.
When I’ve seen video of foreigners in other countries burning people (including Bush) in effigy, I’ve always thought they were idiots.
It always seemed like the kind of thing that presaged violence when directed at the leaders of those countries.
And when it was done to Bush it always seemed like a pretty explicit threat that only seemed to marginalize the protesters as proto-violent extremists.
But I support the free speech rights of right wingers to out themselves as proto-violent extremists.
Moderates and independents need to recognize what the right wing is becoming, this is an opportunity for them to see it for themselves.
A publically-traded company sponsoring a website to give Marxists a safe place to talk amongst themselves?
No wonder it’s still in beta version!
“And lets be clear, burning someones image can be seen as a highly threatening gesture. I’m puzzled how anyone could see burning someone’s image as anything but an intention to intimidate (terrorize) someone.”
O it’s such a jolly fire, NewsRef – surely they do it for the cheeriness and cameraderie of the flames.
Of course it’s a terroristic threat – what else is a burning cross but a warning of violence?
Please.
Might be a good idea to buy Wapo stock.
I guess it makes sense since we have a socialist president who is helping the stock market make a killing.
So, FAUX NEWS, and the Wall St. Journal, which provides safe havens for Rabid Right Wing, Christo Fascist, Chicken Hawk, War Mongers, is not publically traded?
“Barry from Maple Grove, the ironist: trashes Al Franken, and then gets all huffy at what he perceives to be Tena’s lack of liberal tolerance.”
Not only that, it’s funny cause all I did was compare his district to South Carolina and went off like a volcano –
must have hit a nerve.
I just compared Minnesota to another state. jeez. I get all cussed out and called retarded and stuff and sbj says nothing?
If I’d said all that, the outrage! I would have been haunted for days by sbj reminding me of how outre, beyond the Pale, I am.
Peace out, Kathleen.
I so enjoy your company – your comments rock.
And:
Free T.I.!
Good night, Tena and all. I’ll try to visit more often. I’ve been too busy at work to do anything but pop in and offer snark.
sbj,
For the record, I would not support Bush or even Cheney being burned in effigy. However, I would note that it was Canadians – mild, meek CANADIANS – who were responsible for that exercise in free speech.
If it were just burning Pelosi in effigy, I might agree that this is nothing more than an exercise in freedom of speech. However, the teabaggers have consistently invoked horribly racist, anti-Semitic, and violent imagery at their rallies since before they were even identified as teabaggers. The “Kill him!” chant in reference to then candidate Obama was heard at Palin rallies during the campaign.
The teabaggers seek to use the violent messages as a cudgel to silence political debate. They have already begun to act out violently, as the dozen or so who were arrested doing Michelle Bachmann’s bidding in not stopping “until [they] saw the whites” of their Nancy Pelosi’s eyes.
“I get all cussed out and called retarded and stuff and sbj says nothing? If I’d said all that, the outrage! I would have been haunted for days by sbj reminding me of how outre, beyond the Pale, I am.”
I’m not defending you because you are obviously high right now.
“The teabaggers seek to use the violent messages as a cudgel to silence political debate.”
LOL! You mean all those old farts? If you admit you’re scared of their violent imagery then the tea party protesters have won!
“A publically-traded company sponsoring a website to give Marxists a safe place to talk amongst themselves?”
It is an exceptionally effective propaganda system which can produce individuals this uneducated who yet have little or no apparent conception of just how little they actually know. No mean feat, this.
sbj said: “I’m not defending you because you are obviously high right now.”
No, that would be me. And you, now and again, I expect. My daughter and I both have many gay friends and across that fancy horizon we know of none who do not partake on the rare occasion if not on every occasion.
“Conservatism will not recover as a coherent governing philosophy until it takes this monstrous propaganda on. Conservatism will not somehow emerge through the wreckage of this current moment, until it finds the courage to note that what it has become is not some variant on its tradition rightly understood, but its conscious, active, pernicious nemesis.
And yes, this makes the actual, living breathing representative of political conservatism in our time the current president of the United States. And anyone with any passing concern for the legacy of conservative philosophy knows it.” http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/11/fox-news-enemy-of-conservatism.html#more
Why are you all talking about burning the pope in effigy?
A more proper equivalent would be burning the US flag as a form of protest – of say, a war policy you didn’t agree with – and we all know what tea partiers would think of that.
Hypocritical babies.
“A more proper equivalent would be burning the US flag as a form of protest…and we all know what tea partiers would think of that.”
Them…and Hillary Clinton. LoL!
@Bernie: I dream of those days…BTW, dangerous narcotics (such as crystal meth, E, K) are really having a devastatingly negative impact in the gay community.
@sbj – and elsewhere. The Vancouver scene, so far as daughter and I are/were involved in it, is quite drug-friendly but to prudent levels. It was the music community where I’ve seen the greater level of problems (meth and heroin).
“sbj said: “I’m not defending you because you are obviously high right now.””
You are obviously high,sbj, if you honestly thought I was complaining about your not defending me.
No, I was point out your hypocrisy. You only take issue with those something like “you’re obviously developmentally challenged” if I say it. Anyone else is free to say it – especially to me.
And I’m high. And I’m the hypocrite.
LOL!!
“The “Kill him!” chant in reference to then candidate Obama was heard at Palin rallies during the campaign.”
Gasbag mindlessly peddles another liberal urban legend.
Try to come up with lies that at least sound plausible. Your lies are too aburd for anyone to take seriously.
“Conservatism will not somehow emerge through the wreckage of this current moment, until it finds the courage to note that what it has become is not some variant on its tradition rightly understood, but its conscious, active, pernicious nemesis.”
I had to read that sentence four times before concluding that, yes, it is just as assinine and confused as it first appears. Sullivan has clearly spent so much time stewing in bitterness that he can no longer even entertain a coherent thought. But what else to expect from someone who argues that conservatives have betrayed their most basic principles by resisting homosexual marriage.
Just about the only thing that could make his statements even more risible is to claim that Obama is the true conservative, and sure enough, Sully delivers.
I wonder if “Obama is a neo-marxist” is another Urban Legend? I’ve looked at that “evidence” and it isn’t very compelling.
“He may have imagined himself on a one-man jihad, but he was no terrorist. He didn’t aim at a specific group swith the specific idea of terrorizing them into not doing or doing something.”
sbj was right. You are clearly high.
California Dreaming
“I looked as hard as I could at how states could declare bankruptcy,” said Michael Genest, director of the California Department of Finance who is stepping down at the end of the year. “I literally looked at the federal constitution to see if there was a way for states to return to territory status.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125814283469047497.html
Another Democratic Record
Former congressman [D-La.] William J. Jefferson was sentenced to 13 years in prison Friday for accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes, the longest prison term ever handed down to a member of Congress convicted of corruption charges.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/13/AR2009111301266.html?hpid=topnews
Maybe someone could explain to me why it matters if Hasan, the Ft. Hood shooter, is classified as a terrorist or a criminal. Also, even though I know the debate continues, as usual between right and left, why does it really matter if KSM et al are tried in Federal Court or Military Tribunal, if as Holder says, they have untainted evidence that he thinks will convict them?
“Defining terrorism is no easy feat. There are many interpretations of what the term terrorism means and with those interpretations debates are initiated and policies are executed. Additionally, the often misunderstood perception of a terrorist vs. a criminal makes the defining of terrorism that much harder to achieve. The international consensus on the definition of terrorism is “light years” away, in my opinion, and it is mainly due to the many problems certain nations may face when they, too, become the members of the consensus.”
http://criminaljusticeonlineblog.com/archives/terrorism-international-consensus-on-definition-of-terrorism/
You Can Keep Your Insurance If You Like It ?
I’m a registered Democrat living in New York City, and I buy my own health insurance. But now, having seen the health-care reform bill that passed the House, I’m preparing for life without health insurance. And unless I’m the only person covered under the Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield “Tradition Plus” plan, a lot of other people will end up just like me, uninsured.
I will gain one thing, though—an annual fine for losing my insurance. The exact amount of that fine isn’t clear yet, but so far it looks like I’ll be paying about the same amount—$2,000 a year—for having no insurance as I do now for having it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574527493169603118.html
Freehold
Criminals from the right and the left, adulterers from the right and the left, name callers from the right and the left, it’s all the same really.
There was one interesting article earlier this week comparing Jefferson’s sentence which seemed unusually harsh compared to our very own Duke Cunningham who’s crimes were at least as diabolical if not more so than Jeffersons.
Duke is a great friend of my very own Rep. who has quite a few ethics complaints of his own and was arrested with a prostitutes head in his lap in a little alley somewhere in town. I think that was maybe 12-15 years ago and we still haven’t been able to get rid of him. He also gets a lot of pork for his transportation projects, we like to call them roads to nowhere but his property.
Oh and it’s too bad you converted to cash already, the market was pretty good this week.
Also,
It’s my understanding there is an invincible insurance plan which will be offered on the exchange, which is a high deductible, inexpensive plan so I’m not too sure the guy in New York is exactly correct. And maybe if we get a decent public option, he’ll be able to afford real insurance?
At least this won’t damage the US ability to compete with other countries and keep good jobs here .. oh wait
Those trying to overthrow the traditional curriculum found mathematics a hard nut to crack, however, because of the sequential nature of its content through the grades and its relationship to high school chemistry and physics. Nevertheless, education faculty eventually figured out how to reimagine the mathematics curriculum, too, so that it could march under the banner of social justice. As Alan Schoenfeld, the lead author of the high school standards in the 1989 NCTM report, put it, “the traditional curriculum was a vehicle for . . . the perpetuation of privilege.” The new approach would change all that.
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/eon1113ss.html
Imsinca,
He didn’t say, but I “read between the lines” that his income was high enough that he wouldn’t get any public funding for his individual policy. IIRC, that’s at about $88K for a family of four, don’t recall for an individual.
I guess what I heard on TV with my own ears, Kill him, is now being called an urban legend. Wait that’s right the MSM was in the bag for Obama. It was all rigged.
Freehold
Jefferson didn’t know he could use the Cheney defense, “I can’t recall if it was me who put that money in the fridge”.
quarterback,
Once again, you reflexively declare me a liar without bothering to do even a cursory web search.
On your browser, type “shouts kill him at palin rally” and see how many entries pop up.
There are multiple charges that attendees shouted “Kill him” and/or “Off with his head” at the following Palin rallies: Scranton, PA; Lehigh University; Clearwater, FL; and Jacksonville, FL.
These all occurred from about October 6-16, 2008. The Secret Service could not confirm the Scranton incident, but they did not rule out the others.
I obviously did not concoct these incidents and they happened in multiple cities over several days. Whether you choose to admit it or not, I was not lying about these events and you have no basis for declaring them all urban legends. I’ll give you Scranton, but I have not found that the Secret Service made any determination on the others.
Of course these events are on top of all of the racist images that abounded at these same rallies and have persisted into the teabagger rallies. Both the proto-teabaggers and the teabaggers proper have had a sizable presence of individuals who are quite content to make violent and racist statements.
Also, still waiting for an explanation into how your definition for “Stalinism” differs so wildly from that of dictionaries. Why is your definition superior to Oxford’s?
According to your logic:
free from facts = Stalinism
According to oberservation:
quarterback = free from facts
ergo:
quarterback = Stalinist
Wow! By your own standards you are a Stalinist! I guess your definition is OK.
Unknowns I Have Known, and Some That I Haven’t
I was thinking it’d be a good thing for some bond-holders to lose their shirts in many of the bankruptcies we have seen. They’re the victims of crooked investment-rating houses, and some additional pressure from them to fix the situation would be helpful.
It got me to wondering how I’d feel about the gummint running an investment-rating service.
There’s a trade-off between the value it can bring and the danger of the mischief it can perpetrate if an administration is so inclined (see: Justice, Dept. of, 2001-2008).
In this case, I think I’d be pretty wary.
Gasman… you are no liar! “Kill him” was shouted at a Palin rally. They can deny it all they want. There is no question that there are a few on this blog that want the president to fail regardless of his policies.
Freehold
You might want to read more then just Murdoch’s WSJ.
Andy,
“Kill him” was shouted during at least three, and quite possibly four, Palin rallies. Neither she nor McCain ever disavowed such behavior.
Imagine the outcry of the wingnuts if Obama supporters had shouted similarly regarding McCain or Palin, especially if Obama did not denounce them.
And to think that John McCain’s best judgement was to pick Sarah Palin as his running mate. I guess there were no Nobel laureates available.
fh – citing wsj only adds to your rw troll creds.
Freehold
I was thinking more about that WSJ piece and your response and there are two things you should know.
1. If the guy from NY has BC/BS insurance he likes for an individual there’s no reason to think it will not still be available outside of the exchange. There will still be an individual market as far as I know.
2. If not, as I mentioned, within the exchange there will be an invincible policy he will be able to purchase. The exchange will be open to all individuals and small businesses whether they qualify for subsidies or not.
3. Don’t let my liberal friends chase you away, I like reading your links. Sometimes they’re funny, intentionally or not, and sometimes they get me thinking.
You’re probably out for your run already but have a good day.
@Freehold
Stotsky (the author of your linked education critique) is as much of an ideologue – and as self-certain regarding the evident ‘truths’ of her ideology – as those she criticizes. As to politicization of education theory and curricula, she’s equally ‘guilty’ in that respect as well. Her claims to a greater degree of scientific or logical rigor in methodologies has some validity (depending on what is compared) but is shallow and incomplete in the manner of all such ‘positivist’ approaches – if it can’t be measured, it either ain’t true or ain’t worth worrying about. And you ought to understand here that I got in rather a lot of poop at my university for advancing criticisms of what I saw as groundless theorizing and too-soft evaluative procedures.
In a nutshell, it just ain’t so simple as she makes out.
An interesting aside on this… I took a look at her Wiki page and it is unusually (for Wiki) hagiographic. Following up through the history of contributions, there was a fairly small stub on her until one year ago when one contributor re-wrote the page into pretty much what is there now. The nature of the hagiography suggests a PR agency and that wouldn’t be at all surprising given the nature of free-enterprise education consulting bucks (it’s what my two brothers do up in BC).
Does anyone imagine that Bill Kristol or Rumsfeld or Cheney or the board members at Northrup Grumman are going to lose even a second’s sleep over this?
“Doctors in Iraq’s war-ravaged enclave of Falluja are dealing with up to 15 times as many chronic deformities in infants and a spike in early life cancers that may be linked to toxic materials left over from the fighting.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/13/falluja-cancer-children-birth-defects
lmsinca,
Have you read any good articles spelling out the pros and cons of mandates when it comes to HCR?
I’m embarrassed to admit that, under the tutelage of my visiting daughter, I’ve finally gotten around to watching “30 Rock”. It’s really quite brilliant. And Tina Fey is even more of a comedic genius than I’d come close to understanding. Daughter and I were talking last night about the irony that Tina Fey would make a far, far better President than the individual she parodied.
Which brings us to the Weekly Standard’s Matthew Continetti book “The Persecution of Sarah Palin”. Here’s some “editorial reviews” of this work at Amazon…
“Matthew Continetti has written a touch, revealing look at how the bias or habits of liberals in the media led them to assault a political figure who shared neither their values nor background. Whether you like Sarah Palin or not, this well-researched and meticulous volume strips the bark off influential players in journalism.”
-Karl Rove, former deputy chief of staff and senior advisor to President George W. Bush
“A compelling account of journalistic malpractice on a grand scale. Those called out in the book should not be allowed to forget what they did.”
-Brit Hume, senior political analyst, Fox News
“What set off the media feeding frenzy over Sarah Palin’s place on the 2008 Republican presidential ticket? Was there something wrong with Palin? Or something wrong with the media? In The Persecution of Sarah Palin, Matthew Continetti finds the answer-and exposes the media’s worst excesses.”
-Byron York, chief political correspondent, The Washington Examiner
“If every member of the anti-Palin media was simply forced to read and understand just the first page of this book, what is left of journalism in this country would be greatly improved. If every voter had done so prior to the election, we might have a different president right now.”
-John Ziegler, creator of the film Media Malpractice
“During the 2008 campaign the ‘mainstream media’ wrote a narrative about Sarah Palin that had very little to do with the facts. Now Matthew Continetti, who told us the truth about the Republican machine in The K Street Gang, tells us the truth about how Palin was chosen by John McCain and how so many in the press set out to destroy her.”
-Michael Barone, resident fellow, American Enterprise Institute; coauthor, The Almanac of American Politics
“Matt Continetti has not only written a great book about Sarah Palin, he has also written a classic study of the modern political press, complete with the good, the bad, and the very, very ugly. This book should be required reading for political journalists.”
-Yuval Levin, editor, National Affairs
@Bernie,
I was surprised to hear that you had not previously watched 30 Rock. You can catch previous episodes online. It is one of the very few shows that I watch on a regular basis.
As for Quitter Palin:
AP does some fact checking on her book.
This will come as no surprise; the truth is not in the woman.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091114/D9BVAMOG0.html
Excerpt:
“Ignoring substantial parts of her record if not the facts, she depicts herself as a frugal traveler on the taxpayer’s dime, a reformer without ties to powerful interests and a politician roguishly indifferent to high ambition.
Palin goes adrift, at times, on more contemporary issues, too. She criticizes President Barack Obama for pushing through a bailout package that actually was achieved by his Republican predecessor George W. Bush – a package she seemed to support at the time.”
@Liam – as I said, “embarrassed”. I try to get in Olbermann and Maddow each day with a bit of FOX but usually have to be dragged by my betters to other stuff.
Over at Weekly Standard or NRO (can’t recall now) they are trying to knock down the AP piece (of course they are).
“Over at Weekly Standard or NRO (can’t recall now) they are trying to knock down the AP piece (of course they are).”
Yeah they’re talking about the Persecution of Sarah Palin. The poor baby – she gets $250 K of designer clothes out of the RNC, a several million dollar book deal for a book she didn’t write one word of, and the way things are going, she’ll never have to go back to that trailer in Wasilla.
Poor persecuted Sarah/
Quitter Palin’s co-author, Lynn Vincent has written in the past:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200911130011
“Gay people are like communists, seek “sexual gratification without responsibility,” wear dog collars. From Vincent’s April 10, 1999, World column, headlined “How homosexuals fight”:”
“Indeed, the face of the minority survivor in the Oval Office racially represents many abortion victims. Ninety-four percent of all abortion doctors are located in metropolitan areas, with seven in 10 of these in predominantly minority-populated communities, according to Care Net, a Virginia-based coalition of more than 1,100 pregnancy resource centers. The result: African-American and Hispanic women, who together make up about one-quarter of the female population, account for 57 percent of the 1.2 million abortions performed in the United States each year. In some urban areas, abortions among minority women now equal the number of live births. ”
“No Republican “culture of corruption.” In Chapter 1, Vincent and McCain dismiss out of hand the idea of a Republican “culture of corruption” and openly mocks the idea that Democrats would be able to retake control of Congress in 2006 by campaigning against Republican corruption: ”
“If anything was red and scary, it was the scab of treachery that [Whittaker] Chambers peeled back to reveal a Democratic administration teeming with a Communist infection, and despite repeated warnings, doing nothing. One member of the HUAC [House Un-American Activities Committee], a Republican congressman from California named Richard Nixon, believed Chambers. His dogged pursuit of the truth ultimately revealed the extent to which Joseph Stalin was pulling Roosevelt’s strings like those of a hapless puppet.”
“Admiral [Thomas] Moorer’s analysis of Janet Reno’s decision to keep the Chinagate investigation in-house, but to unleash Ken Starr on a chubby-cheeked intern, has merit. The appointment of an independent counsel makes headlines and lends heft to allegations. It would be no surprise if the spin-obsessed Clinton administration had deemed it better to distract the nation and lemming press with a titillating *** scandal — a rap Clinton had already proven he could beat — than to leave a news hole waiting to be filled with tales of a presidency for sale. ”
………………………..
If you go to the link, and use the links in the article to go to her old columns, you might end up thinking that it is not too far fetched to feel that when Quitter Palin said that a friend told her about “the conspiracy to move God to the edge of the US coins”, she may have heard it from her wacko co-author.
Yeah, her ghost is as mean a beyotch as Sarah is. Follows, no?
Re Kristol’s earlier “hang ‘im high” version of US law and the constitution, Andrew Sullivan correctly points out where Kristol sits on the political spectrum… http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/11/the-barbarian-inside-the-gate.html
Though Andrew could have added a note on how encouraging people to such levels of hatred serves the purposes of the military/corporate complex very well.
The Teabaggers’ naivety is very dangerous – they don’t know their history! They don’t know the difference between a duly elected government (today’s 2008 election results) and our founding framers efforts to rid themselves of a monarch who was never elected. And come on, history will be kind to these idiots?
What self-absorbed narcissists! -Kevo
Elizabeth Warren on the economy (h/t Digby)…
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/546/index.html
All, Saturday roundup posted:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/terrorism/saturday-roundup-rudy/
I”m glad Obama is asking Congress to hold off on the investigation of Ft. Hood to try to keep the political circus from overtaking it.
I think it’s really smart.
Speaking of the Weekly Standard(Bullshite, that is)
The Kagans, Fredrick and Kimberly, were hired by General McChrystal to assist in his Afghanistan survey and recommendations to the President.
NOw they are attacking President Obama for “dithering”, just like their former patron Dick Cheney did.
Obama should fire McChrystal. It is clear that the Kagan Neo-Con duo are going after President Obama to force him to accept what they and McChrystal want.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Check.asp?idArticle=17197&r=pvvru
re, Let’s Tea Party Like it’s 1775: yeah they did burn people in effigy. So… when can we expect the tarring and feathering, maybe Thanksgiving? Can’t wait.
This is some valuable information, I just finished up my paper for class and think I should go re-edit it lol. You may have just made me a regular
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