Happy Hour Roundup — Thanksgiving Edition
Because it’s never too early for happy hour on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving…
* The President should savor his turkey dinner, because when you step back and survey the landscape, he really is facing a daunting sum-total of challenges next month.
* Private sector forecasters say the stimulus is working, and their livelihoods depend on getting stuff right.
* New Gallup poll: Support for escalating in Afghanistan edges up; supporters now outnumber opponents.
* More eye-opening numbers from Gallup: Americans oppose closing Gitmo by more than two to one, and nearly six in ten want Khalid Sheik Mohammed tried in military court.
* Sam Stein flags a key number in a new Pew poll: A majority says they’re sick of all the media coverage of Sarah Palin. By the way, what’s on her Facebook page today?
* We have all internalized the idea that Senate filibuster abuse is as natural and eternal as the weather or the changing seasons. Guess what? It isn’t.
* The Obama administration picks the day before Thanksgiving to drop the news that they’re activating the Military Commissions. No explanation given.
* A must-read from Glenn Greenwald on the Obama administration’s apparent marginalization of civil libertarians.
* Eric Kleefeld notes that the latest from Rush Limbaugh amounts pretty clearly to a call for a military coup.
* And here’s a brief history of presidential turkey pardons.
Have a terrific holiday, all. I’ll be posting over the break, so stop by.
This blog’s homepage is here. RSS feed here. Twitter feed here. Email me here.
Happy Turkey Day Greg!
Congrats to Jesse Lee and Nita Chaudhury. So, when is Greg gonna find love?
With Lamebrain unfortunately representing too many on the right and *too far* right as the one extreme, one can almost look at Obama’s middle-of-the-road actions as mirrored in the Greenwald article as somehow still “liberal”. Almost.
“The President should savor his turkey dinner, because when you step back and survey the landscape, he really is facing a daunting sum-total of challenges next month.”
The only change I would make here is THE NATION is facing daunting challenges…and the more we let the right make it all Obama…the more it seems as if he created rather than inherited most of those challenges.
Perhaps it is the season…Thanksgiving does make me thankful…maybe it’s Tena’s continual reminders to stop beating ourselves up as progressives are won’t to do…maybe it’s this from Deepak Chopra who seemed to be channeling his inner Tena…:-)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/sarah-palin-fooling-none_b_367364.html
“The left needs to learn how to win graciously. The current upheaval in American society, which has been an enormous threat on many fronts, called forth a president and a constituency that knows how to handle crisis. The voices of sanity are prevailing. The solutions that have emerged on all fronts — economic, social, and international — represent the best in the American character.”
It’s all good! Happy Thanksgiving to all. And again Greg thanks for a terrific blog.
Shocking a talk show host could make such a joke.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/09/10/a_new_low_in_bush_hatred/
Next month? Haha, where are you been for the past 10?
All the blogging about polling always makes me think I don’t know how I would answer a lot of the poll questions, particularly the ones on policies that haven’t yet been formed. This was true with health care before there were any details of what might be in a final bill. It’s also true about Afghanistan. It’s my hunch I’ll assume Obama is making the best choice he can because he’s evaluated the situation from as many standpoints as he can. I’ll assume he’s considered everything I’ve thought of and a whole lot more, but if you asked me right now if I support his Afghanistan policy, I couldn’t really answer because I don’t know what it is, though I’m glad he’s weighing it carefully.
Of course I may be channeling my inner Tena too, but I’m good with that.
QB WTF is your point? Are you saying because a radical liberal talk show host uttered hatred that makes what Beck and Limbaugh do on a daily basis OK?
WTF is your problem. Change your name to Pee Wee because the only think you ever bring to this blog is I know you are so what am I?
Seriously do you have ANYTHING positive to present here? I genuinely feel sorry for anybody as aggrieved as you. I’m not sure what you have to be thankful for this Thanksgiving but I honestly hope you find something. I no longer consider you a troll or an adversary to be debated..simply someone so miserable they add nothing to the conversation.
I guess I could add the latest link showing Rush advocating a military coup…but I’m just over it all with you. You’ve become so predictable as to be boring.
I close however on a very sincere note…I DO hope you have a happy Thanksgiving.
@Greg
” We have all internalized the idea that Senate filibuster abuse is as natural and eternal as the weather or the changing seasons.”
Who is this “we” you’re talking about? Because I know that I have fully understood the completely bullsh*t abuse of filibuster tactics the Republicans have been using since Dems retook Congress. It kind of shocks me that people are still so clueless to this fact – well, it shocks me until I watch 5 min. of cable news…then I’m not surprised in the least.
But it’s good to have you catch up with those of us who know the score. If YOU just got to this point…I guess I can expect the rest of the media to figure out, oh, around the time the USS Enterprise takes it’s maiden voyage!
I sure am not thankful for the travesty of a press corp we have in this country.
ps Greg…
Happy Thanksgiving! LOL…sorry to bust your b*lls on holiday time.
@rukidding
Stop. Talking. To. The. Trolls.
They offer nothing. Nothing at all. They are pathetic projections of their own inadequacies and prejudices. Cowards and bullies. Liars and hypocrites. The worst of our country, the bottom of our barrel, and the tarnish on the beacon of hope that is our nation.
It’s not worth your time, our time, or the pixels on this blog, to engage with them.
Oh, and to everyone…even trolls…happy thanksgiving. If you can, give some of your feast to someone who doesn’t have one. The best thing you can do on thanksgiving is to give someone ELSE a reason for thanks.
@BBQ I take your point.
Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!
Hmmm… boiled trolls with pickle sauce. Yummy!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
I dunno about ya’ll but I’m thankful that I’m going to be away from the d@mn internets and teevee for a few days. Hallelujah!
Be safe and remember to wash your hands plenty of times, as family gatherings could lead to spreading H1N1 and all that:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34136969/ns/health-cold_and_flu
Enjoy, everyone.
Below the equator it is, of course, Thankstaking. But as I’m not there, that’s irrelevant. H T G.
.
Guys, we have so much to be thankful for. Really we do. For all the handwringing, in the last year, we’ve begun to pull back from the abyss. And given the history of our
country, it’s been in the most remarkable way. Doesn’t it still take your breath away to see the Obamas in the White House? I hope we can hold onto that. It’s a very big deal.
And Happy Thanksgiving to everybody.
It’s not Thanksgiving until the uncle everyone hates spills his grape juice over the carpet.
“It’s not worth your time, our time, or the pixels on this blog, to engage with them.”
How well did that work the last 30-40 years?
“Ignoring” right wing trolls, whether they be at the office water cooler, your favorite bar, in the same line waiting, or at the family Thanksgiving dinner, means that you give them the stage to spout their falsehoods and that’s the only thing everyone listening leaves with.
The Dems tried to “ignore” the trolls on the right and it gave the right 30+ years of ascendancy.
The Dems tried to take the high ground and “ignore” the ignorant misstatements of Republican Reagan and it got him elected and then reelected and provided the inertia to get Bush 1 elected.
The Dems tried to “ignore” Rush Limbaugh’s right wing extremism and it handed the Republicans the Congress in 1994.
The Dems tried to “ignore” the Fox Republican Propaganda channel and the Republcian Foxes ended up by falsely calling the 2000 election for Republican Bush.
The Dems tried to “ignore” the right wing extremism on nine out of ten talk-radio stations and it gave US eight years of Republican Bush, the first five of which helped the right wing treat him like a God who deserved Kingly powers.
The Dems tried to “ignore” the false claims that the right wing corporate media was actually the “liberal media” and that false “conventional wisdom” slowly hardened like concrete.
One of the worst kind of trolls to me: A right-wing enabler that attacks left-wingers for responding to right wing nonsense.
Just wanted to check in and say Happy Thanksgiving all, enjoy your families and all those little holiday traditions we all have.
I read some of the posts from yesterday, especially re: GW and the supposed CRU scandal. It’s a load of hogwash. Emails taken out of context, not understanding the science of tree ring dating and some of the discrepancies there and other misinterpretations of words used in private emails.
The right will use this unfortunate incident to herald in
so-called “climategate” outrage, but don’t fall for it. The science is real and the information is out there if you’re interested. Here’s a good website with lots of links and clarifications on the stolen emails as well as the science.
http://www.desmogblog.com/
Have a Great Day Everyone!!
Palin is brain dead and her supporters suffer the same. This woman is incoherent in her thoughts and expression. She spends much of her time circling a never ending sentence trying to find the exit and the more senseless her comments, the more praise they heap on her.
Let’s only hope that once this vindictive book tour wraps up we have heard the last of her.
““The left needs to learn how to win graciously. The”
That’s a great statement from Chopra.
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
NR said: “One of the worst kind of trolls to me: A right-wing enabler that attacks left-wingers for responding to right wing nonsense.”
Please. There’s a difference between advice and an “attack”. The rule or wisdom or protocol “don’t feed the trolls” has a long history on discussion boards because of participants’ experiences with what happens when you do and what happens when you don’t. If you know of any case where arguing with such folks has significantly changed any mind or vote anywhere, I’d like to know about it. I’d consider it in the class of biblical miracles.
Talk about being between a rock and a hard place – the left is screaming incessantly about closing Gitmo and other Bush policies that we want to see ended and people punished, and over half of the country is of a completely different opinion.
I’d hate to be Obama.
Can I say something in the argument arguing with trolls?
In the 7 + years I’ve been doing this, I’ve seen at least one fight daily between those who constantly say “don’t feed the trolls” and those who feed them.
As much as nothing has ever changed the trolls, I’ve ever ever seen them ignored. So getting on people to not feed them is as useless and and disruptive, IMO, as just letting the argument go. If it bothers you – don’t read it.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
“I have no idea what actually motivated Carter’s abrupt resignation, but here’s what I do know: so many of the detention and other “War on Terror” policies Obama has explicitly adopted were the very same ones which Carter (as well as Obama) repeatedly railed against during the Bush years, in Carter’s case primarily in blogs he maintained both at The Washington Post and at Slate. Whatever else is true, the policies Obama has adopted in the last six months in the very areas of Carter’s responsibilities were ones Carter vehemently condemned when implemented by Bush.”
This is so Glenn – he constantly says: :”Now, I don’t know what this means,” and then goes on to tell you all that it means, anyway.
I’m so damn thankful that I don’t have Glenn Greenwald at my Thanksgiving table that I’m going to eat extra just because he isn’t.
Tena – I’ve watched a significant number of boards/sites descend into utter uselessness through right v left warfare. When the insults and cliches take up more space than careful analysis and information sharing, that’s about the time to start chiseling a tombstone.
“When the insults and cliches take up more space than careful analysis and information sharing, that’s about the time to start chiseling a tombstone.”
Bernie – I’ve never seen so many trolls in my life as there used to be at Eschaton. Atrios used to have a permanent warning when you opened the comments box: don’t feed the trolls.
Not only is Eschaton still there, the same 300 or so regulars are still there. And probably the same trolls, too.
My point is that it really does take up what bandwidth is left if it’s trolls vs. commmenter vs. commenters.
But it wasn’t my argument and now I’m sorry I said anything and I’m staying out of it now.
Tena – on Greenwald…Michael Massing wrote a wonderful piece in the NYRB a couple of months ago on the burgeoning universe of online political discourse/commentary. Massing, like me, hold Greenwald as one example of how good such commentary can get but at the same time, Massing expressed the personal experience of having to lay off Glenn now and again because of how unceasing he is in respect to principles (as contrasted with pragmatic considerations). That’s precisely my experience with Glenn too. Still, I’m very happy he’s doing exactly what he’s doing. There are lots of pragmatists around too to provide alternate views.
Tena – no, I think your point is a valid one. Too much meta-discussion can eat up everyone’s time too, even if some amount of it is now and again necessary. It seems to me that there’s no perfect policy here, just rough rules and advices, and we limp along as well as we can. But as a rough rule (nothing absolute), the ‘don’t feed’ is definitely one I find helpful.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/26/bush-administration-911-iraq-inquiry (worth a full read – here’s a bit)
The military timetable for an invasion of Iraq in 2003 did not give time for UN weapons inspectors in the country to do their job, the former British ambassador to Washington told the Iraq inquiry in London today.
Sir Christopher Meyer said the “unforgiving nature” of the build-up after American forces had been told to prepare for war meant that “we found ourselves scrabbling for the smoking gun”.
He added: “It was another way of saying ‘it’s not that Saddam has to prove that he’s innocent, we’ve now bloody well got to try and prove he’s guilty.’ And we – the Americans, the British – have never really recovered from that because of course there was no smoking gun.”
More commentary from the Guardian on Meyer’s testimony…
“At the Iraq inquiry this morning, Sir Christopher Meyer has let so many cats out of the bag that it is hard to keep up with them all…” http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/26/iraq-inquiry-christopher-meyer
“the ‘don’t feed’ is definitely one I find helpful.”
I totally agree and I try to ride herd on my tendency at times to engage them because they don’t argue honestly and will say anything at all. I get that and I agree.
The problem I have with Glenn is that he never ever ever changes – its always the same and it is beyond predictable.
But what I really hate about Glenn is that I have read I don’t know how many pieces by him which begin roughly “I don’t know why,” or “what or who or when,…” but he goes on to tell you anyway.
You cry Wolf steadily like this and you kind of destroy all incentive to see what you’re saying this time cause it never wavers. It never varies.
That’s why I am thankful as hell he’s not anywhere in my vicinity.
I have enough friends who drink too much and get relentless and repetitive. I don’t need to go to the internet for it.
Besides,Bernie – I don’t need that kind of leaden progressivism – if I want to get fired up and radical, I have Immortal Technique and Dead Prez. And Immortal Technique could fire up a dead man.
I recommend “the bin Laden Remix” The chorus is: bin Laden didn’t blow up the projects, it was you, n***a, it was you. Bush knocked down the towers. IT was you, n***a, it was YOU muthaf****r.
Got me through the whole 8 years.
“The military timetable for an invasion of Iraq in 2003 did not give time for UN weapons inspectors in the country to do their job, the former British ambassador to Washington told the Iraq inquiry in London today.”
Ahem.
Didn’t anyone at all besides me notice this just from events as they unfolded? It was no secret – Hush gave them 48 hours to get out of Iraq – why? Because they were coming up emptyhanded and ruining his entire excuse for invading.
Hell, Saddam said so on TV – he was cooperating and he said it wouldn’t matter and he was right.
There are still a lot of people even on the left who will not see the full truth about what happened here. Don’t ever ride my a*s*s for calling this what it was -8 years of fascism, AMerican style.
Hush – is Bush.
Tena – I don’t have a lot of time these days so try and soak up my passions efficiently. I’m hoping the Bobby McFerrin will do a remix of Chomsky.
One of the elements of that period of the run-up to the war that I found so repugnant was the character smears pumped out of the American right against Hans Blix. But that’s the way these people play the game now – constantly.
“Bobby McFerrin will do a remix of Chomsky.”
Boy my homies around here just insist on getting old.
;P
Yes – but there are so many repugnant things they did.
I mostly try not to think about it because it was more than shameful, the way Bush and our leaders behaved. Really – what right did Bush have to murder Saddam’s sons? That was straight vengeance. I don’t care what kind of monsters they were – they should have been tried, not murdered.
“Boy my homies around here just insist on getting old.”
You should know that it was me who started the campaign to have Lady Gaga’s bum carved out on Mt Rushmore.
We totally lost ourselves in that frakking war right from the jump in ways I’ve never seen us do. All dignity, all pretense at nobility of cause – gone. Utterly stomped to death by Commander CooCoo and his cabal who sounded like wrestling promoters. Nothing at all ever suggested that Commander CooCoo saw that war as all our other presidents have seen war – with reluctance. With gravitas for the reality of lost American lives.
He’s a sociopath without the ability to feel empathy. He’s sickening – I still cannot believe a man who stood there and made a face and mocked the woman he was hours from executing got elected president.
I don’t believe it cause he didn’t. But I can’t believe they pulled that off and dragged us through those 8 hellish damn years and then unloaded some of the biggest crimes this country has ever committed right onto Obama and laughed their a*s*s*e*s off because they knew he’d start being blamed instead.
I’m thankful as hell they are out of power. I’m so thankful for Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi and even Harry Reid.
Bernie – LOL
Ok I take it back.
Palin offers her sophisticated thoughts on Canada’s healthcare system…
“WALSH: Ms. Palin, I tried to ask you a question inside, but I didn’t hear your answer! The Canadians! Ms. Palin!
PALIN: Well, my answer was too keep the faith. My answer was to keep the faith. Cause that common sense conservatism can be plugged-in there in Canada too. In fact Canada needs to reform its health care system and let the private sector take over some of what the government has absorbed. So thank you, keep the faith.” http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/does-sarah-palin-favor-medicare-privatization.php
What a goil. Note again the “commonsense conservatism”.
Have to skidaddle now. To Greg and all else – have a lovely holiday.
I’d love to have Glenn Greenwald and Arianna Huffington over for Thanksgiving.
Both have shown more principles than Obama has this last year.
Hopefully Obama will figure out that his adoption of right wing policies are toxic for more than just the country, but toxic politically as well.
From Sam Stein. I’ve been saying for awhile we’ve been giving the Mom from Tundra too much attention.
“Only two percent of respondents said that news of Palin and her new book, “Going Rogue,” was the story they followed “most closely” this past week. Only ten percent said they were following it “very closely.” Compare that to the 41 percent who said that the health care reform debate was their top story and 18 percent who said the same about the swine flu epidemic.
Pushing the point a bit further, Pew discovered that: “Most Americans (52%) say they have been hearing too much about Palin, while 26% say they have been hearing the right amount and 13% say they have been hearing too little about her. Far more say they are hearing too much about Palin now than in July, after her surprise resignation as Alaska’s governor (38%).”
Over and out, have a great day everyone!
News Ref -honey, it’s a big tent.
But Obama has’t adopted right wing anything. Obama campaigned on everything he’s done so far. Obama isn’t trying to be prez just for the left.
Over half the country wants Gitmo to stay open. That is a rightwing attitude, AFAIC, but there you go. We’re not the actual majority, here on the left.
The left can’t elect anyone on its own.
That’s why it’s a big tent.
Arianna would be easier to take if she was honest about it but she isn’t.
AFAIC.
Happy Thanksgiving, Imsinca.
And One Love, everybody.
Tena, it’s the struggle between “pragmatism” and “puritanism”.
But I’m not as impressed with “pragmatism” as many are.
“Pragmatism” has no moral consistency, it’s just a way of getting things done.
But I can also understand why many snub “puritanism”.
“Puritanism’s” absolute moral consistency often fails at getting anything done.
But it’s not one or the other, it’s a continuum.
I just see Obama’s track record of being “pragmatic” largely eclipsing many of the “pure” ideals of those that voted him in office.
Worse, Obama’s “pragmatism” seems to be in adopting an increasing number of failed right wing policies, ideas, and advocates.
Example du jour of choosing pragmatism over principle:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/welcome-to-his-nightmare-by-digby-i-get.html
And I see an economy that is recovering; an effort to get historic health care legislation passed – something no one else has gotten this close to; I see a world that is starting to forgive us a bit and wants to give us the benefit of the doubt because we elected Obama; I see women with parity in their payroll checks; I see a president who just refuses to be rushed or pressured by anyone, who has confidence in his abilities and those of the people around him and like Deepak Chopra, I see a country that is trying very hard to recover from the most disastrous 8 years since the 30s.
I guess it’s because perception is reality. We aren’t seeing the same reality and that bothers me because we don’t see the same reality as the right and this country is turning into such a fragmented mess that pretty soon no one will be willing to budge one inch and will start picking tools up next. i.e. guns.
If you don’t realize that FDR did a lot of things that you’d consider right wing – you don’t know history. He’s the only president who ever set up concentration camps here.
Kennedy was a hawk and played a game of chicken with nuclear weapons.
The thing that bothers me the most about all of this is that the left is getting as bad as the right about being out of touch.
Read that poll again = over half the country is in favor of keeping Gitmo open. If we are attacked here, they will drag Obama out of the White House and lynch him.
There are competing interests at play.
And my final word on “purity” vs. “pragmatism” is this:
You cannot compare the Bush Administration and the Obama Administration because all the Bush Administration was was a bunch of unrealistic ideologues.
There wasn’t a pragmatic person in the whole place except maybe Colin Powell and he betrayed his own pragmatism. So that’s what you get with ideologues trying to run s*h*i*t – a colossal failure.
NewsRef–I know it’s Thanksgiving, but puritanism? What exactly are you advocating, my man?
Was watching CSpan on the White House State dinner — I *love* this stuff, gimme more on protocol, muy yum — this morning Thu Nov 26 and think I caught a glimpse of the President at his table with Nancy Pelosi seated to his left?? I only saw her from the back and think I recognized the dress and her hairdo. IF she was seated next to him at this dinner, I think that would be a very big deal re health reform? Greg, can you read the arugula leaves for us?
“Puritanism” is a poor word choice, “Principled” is a better word.
I was using “puritanism” because part of the thread was about “trolls” and it brought to mind “purity trolls”, the troll that always claims more “purity” to the cause.
Though it being Thanksgiving might have subconsciously influenced my word choice: Thanksgiving “Puritans”, heh, didn’t see that until you pointed it out.
Re: “Principled” V. “Pragmatic”
Chris Hayes at The Nation perfectly captured my contempt of the elevation of “Pragmatism” over “Principles”.
Early in Obama’s Presidency there was a hardening conventional wisdom that Obama should follow the example of Republican President Lincoln.
Hayes pointed out that “Lincoln was also pragmatic about the institution he helped end: “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it,” he wrote to newspaper editor Horace Greeley in August 1862, “and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.”"
Lincolnesque “pragmatism” would have kept the institution of slavery to save the Union.
And yet the Village of corporate-media stars was increasingly insistent that Obama follow Lincoln’s “pragmatic” example of leadership.
Nuts.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081229/hayes/single
Greenwald is a dweeb. First, he says that Carter “quit without explanation”, then, in the next paragraph, he tells us that “Carter said he was resigning due to personal issues”. Duh, that’s what we call an “explanation”, dweeb.
Greenwald says “I have no idea what actually motivated Carter’s abrupt resignation”, and then spends the rest of the column telling us why he thinks Carter resigned. He was right the first time: he has no idea, period.
What a dweeb.
NewsRef–Not letting you off that easily. I think you’re on to something. From now on, let’s just say that Greenwald, Jane Hamsher, and Arianna are all Puritans. There might be a little cognitive dissonance with Arianna’s site, but who cares.
I’m trying unsuccessfully to find a link to the NPR story that said Condi Rice was in touch with the Brits right after 9/11 saying the U.S. knew Al Qaeda was responsible, but was looking for a link to Saddam Hussein–a position that was unwavering right into the invasion of Iraq, in spite of the lack of evidence.
I have never seen more first graders in my life, if someone doesn’t agree with your agenda you start the name calling, temper tantrums and finger pointing. This country is in dire straights and we need to unite not pick sides. The day after 9/11 was the most patriotic day that I can remember in my adult life, the other was the day of Kennedy’s (John’s)funeral. If we don’t unite and try to save the principals this nation was founded on, then get used to speaking Chinese, or French. Grow up and get serious.
Tena,
“You cannot compare the Bush Administration and the Obama Administration because all the Bush Administration was was a bunch of unrealistic ideologues.”
IMO both administrations meet the description you apply to Bush. Which gets to the point you made about “We aren’t seeing the same reality and that bothers me because we don’t see the same reality as the right and this country is turning into such a fragmented mess that pretty soon no one will be willing to budge one inch and will start picking tools up next. i.e. guns.”
As long as political ideologues from either the left or the right are in control, executive decisions and legislation will not produce practical results and the country as a whole will suffer.
What Tena is doing is what “Digby” calls “punch a hippie”.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Digby+%22punch+a+hippie%22
My Thanksgiving Puritanism Prayer:
Dear God, please enlighten the right wing on the many protections the left wing ideological puritans have given US:
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having clean water to drink.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having a socialist Fire Department to call in case of a fire.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having clean air to breath.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having a socialist Police Force to call in case your house is invaded.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having equal rights for women and minorities.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having safe foods to eat.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having socialist public libraries that let you borrow books for weeks and often even let you use the internet for free.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having safe prescription drugs to use.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having a socialist Judiciary and Court system that provides a means for the poor to hold the rich and powerful accountable.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having well funded socialist public schools that challenge children to learn and think for themselves.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having socialist public parks (like Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon).
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having socialist public roads to drive on.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having the government invention of the Internet to use.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having safe consumer products.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having the right to a lawyer to protect ourselves.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having free speech.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having a socialist military force to protect our country.
The ideologically left wing puritanism of having a democracy where our votes count as citizens.
Dear God, Thank You for each of these left wing puritan protections of our American citizenry and American nation.
@NR – There are bound to be different views on what issues a new administration (or the party) one has supported or voted for ought to pursue and with what degree of vigor they ought to pursue them. And there will be different views on how future elections can be won. Nothing new here.
What’s happening on the right presently is a clear case in point. Serious ideologues are pushing hard to see their leaders adopt extreme policies and believe that’s the way to get seats and power because they believe 1) they are morally obliged to do so and 2) its the way to win elections. We likely wouldn’t include those folks under the heading “pragmatic”. You said:
“Worse, Obama’s “pragmatism” seems to be in adopting an increasing number of failed right wing policies, ideas, and advocates.”
But if you think it over, such a consequence is (in some manner and in some cases) logically inevitable unless Obama were to immediately and completely reverse every policy “error” put into effect by prior administrations. That can’t be done either administratively or politically.
So it gets down to what policies changed in what order (all tempered by the sorts of briefings and discussions a new President will become privy to once in office). I doubt there’s much of anything that’s simple in here and particularly so given the crises that Bush handed off after selling his ‘I’m John Wayne show-ranch’.
The following adjustment in policy isn’t one which has the simple storyline of, say, closing Gitmo or immediately leaving Afghanistan. But I’d argue that it may well be more consequential to the future of US democracy and effective governance…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html?hpid=topnews
In any case, whatever disagreements we have here aren’t large ones. I read, as I think I said, Greenwald pretty much every day because he gets so much right. But now and again, to my mind, he gets stuff wrong. Different opinions. No big thing.
Another Obama accomplishment under the radar via WaPo
“Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the Obama administration to curb K Street’s influence in Washington, according to White House officials and lobbying experts.
The new policy — issued with little fanfare this fall by the White House ethics counsel — may turn out to be the most far-reaching lobbying rule change so far from President Obama, who also has sought to restrict the ability of lobbyists to get jobs in his administration and to negotiate over stimulus contracts.
The initiative is aimed at a system of advisory committees so vast that federal officials don’t have exact numbers for its size; the most recent estimates tally nearly 1,000 panels with total membership exceeding 60,000 people.
Under the policy, which is being phased in over the coming months, none of the more than 13,000 lobbyists in Washington would be able to hold seats on the committees, which advise agencies on trade rules, troop levels, environmental regulations, consumer protections and thousands of other government policies.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html
Striking quitely at the root of evil in DC.
A typically smart thought from Yglesias…
“I sometimes think it’s hard for America’s professional soldiers to avoid seeing their presence somewhere as the solution to all problems.” http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/circular-reasoning-in-afghanistan.php
amk
There are lots of little changes he is making under the radar, so to speak, which gives me a lot of hope for the next 3 to 7 years. Having said that I think it is beneficial for us, as either liberals or progressives, to be outspoken regarding policy and our expectations.
I was a regular commentor at FDL before coming here about 2 months ago but got really tired of all the negativity. Obama was faced with daunting challenges and an entrenched lobbying system to overcome. He also is more pragmatist than ideologue so the changes some of us seek we seek will be slow in arriving if they arrive at all.
I believe I can be both disappointed and heartened at the same time depending on the issue. And I can be glad we have a Democrat in the WH again while not being too excited about all of his policies.
Have a good day all, off to shop, Black Friday and all.
Andrew Sullivan quotes a letter to him…
“That the psychology behind why the WMD propaganda was so obvious and so enraging to liberals, and so opaque to conservatives, has been one of the more interesting elements of the past 6 years (for me).
Orwell wrote:
“The energy that actually shapes the world springs from emotions — racial pride, leader-worship, religious belief, love of war — which liberal intellectuals mechanically write off as anachronisms, and which they have usually destroyed so completely in themselves as to have lost all power of action … He [H.G. Wells] was, and still is, quite incapable of understanding that nationalism, religious bigotry and feudal loyalty are far more powerful forces than what he himself would describe as sanity.”
Orwell nailed the dynamics boiling under the surface of the current political environment. Liberals are instinctively opposed to racial pride, nationalism, religious bigotry, and leader-worship–and we saw it in spades with George Bush and Bushism…”
Pretty smart, Orwell and this letter writer. And I’ll just add that what Orwell is asserting here is now getting rigorous scientific support in modern cognitive research such as is being done by Drew Weston and George Lakoff and others.
A consequence of properly understanding this, it seems to me, is that rational argument is a limited tool if one wishes to alter consensus (to support a policy or win an election). Weston and Lakoff both write on how we might go about making a case that engages such strong emotional responses while doing so with truth and integrity (which, I think, is close to an absolute must).
A post-Thanksgiving bit of gratitude: Bernie, thank you for being so smart, informed, and informing. (I don’t really mind the occasional retro moments.)
amk-
You beat me to that TPM article. I’m SOOO glad to read this and like Tena has mentioned here before, I suspect this is only the tip of the iceberg re: under-the-radar changes Obama is making. Too bad they can’t be more publicly trumpeted because it might help his approval ratings but I assume the risk of a backlash is still too great. *sigh*
lmsinca and chuck – yup. yup. I love the “chicago politics”. Gives it a brand new meaning.
Wish the “progessives” were smart and patient enough to ‘get’ this guy.
@ABC – You’ve made me look as if I’ve just taken Niacin. A very kind thing to say. Thank you. “Retro” is unavoidable and I’m not even trying to stave it off. Some battles can’t be won and sooner or later we get taken prisoner. Not such a bad thing if the company is agreeable and you are agreeable (and so is Tena, even while banging her tin cup across the bars)
Obama has ice running thru his veins, politically. I have no doubt he was/is exactly the right person for the job.
Michael Gerson, in his column in this paper today, celebrates the intellectual loveliness of his respect for “objective journalism”. I have stuff to do this morning and won’t bother with him. But I’d point to the third last paragraph and make the observation that his comments there align quite nicely with Rupert Murdoch’s present attempts to forward a narrative and alliances which will, he hopes, allow him to further destroy any remnants of objective journalism.
Tena – I dno’t know how you will take this – via a dkos poster
“WASHINGTON — The Pentagon’s decision to shift the production of Army trucks from Texas to Wisconsin after 17 years caught Texas’ elected officials by surprise, raising questions about overconfidence, a loss of political clout and the impact of economic incentives provided to the winning company by Wisconsin’s Democratic governor. ”
As that poster said, adios, mo fo.
That adios was for good hair, rick frigging perry.
Gareth Porter (who I am assured is a credible journo) in Asia Times
“One in every four combat soldiers quit the Afghan National Army (ANA) during the year ending in September, published data by the US Defense Department and the Inspector General for Reconstruction in Afghanistan reveals.
That high rate of turnover in the ANA, driven by extremely high rates of desertion, spells trouble for the strategy that US President Barack Obama has reportedly decided on, which is said to include the dispatch of thousands of additional US military trainers to rapidly increase the size of the ANA.
US officials have for years touted the ANA as a success story. General Stanley A McChrystal, the top US soldier in Afghanistan, called in his August 2009 strategy paper for increasing the ANA to 134,000 troops by October 2010 and eventually to 240,000.
….
Those figures indicate that the rate of turnover in the ANA is accelerating rather than slowing down. That acceleration could increase further, as the number of troops whose three-year enlistment contracts end rises rapidly in the next couple of years.
Meanwhile, the Defense Department (DoD) sought to obscure the problem of the high ANA turnover rate in its reports to the US Congress on Afghanistan in January and June 2009, which avoided the issues of attrition and desertion entirely.
Instead, they referred to what the DoD calls the “AWOL” [absent without leave] rate in the ANA, which measures those unavailable for duty but still in the army. It claimed in June that the AWOL rate was 9% through May 2009, compared with 7% in 2008.”
http://atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KK26Df01.html
No wonder Obama is “dithering”. Even now it’s not late, Mr President.
And fvck darth.
All, Friday roundup posted:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/political-media/friday-roundup/
amk, a plum item in there all for you.
@ Bernie Latham
Right winger Michael Gerson was Republican Bush’s speechwriter.
Gerson’s job was (and still is) to package the propaganda that Republican Bush was catapulting.
Orwell really did nail the right wing: “The energy that actually shapes the world springs from emotions — racial pride, leader-worship, religious belief, love of war….”
Right winger Michael Gerson’s job was to justify wars by riling the emotions of right wing “racial pride, leader-worship, religious belief, [and] love of war.
And he was very good at it.
happy thanks giving, hope it’s not too late to say this