All Hail Bipartisanship! Grassley Kills End Of Life Provision, Attacks Dems For Leaving It “Open To Interpretation”
If there were ever a day where Dems had an opening to argue that Republicans are the ones responsible for putting hopes for a bipartisan health care compromise on life support, today would appear to be it.
A day after Patron Saint of Bipartisanship Chuck Grassley seemed to lend support to Sarah Palin’s “death panel” claims, the Senator confirmed that the end of life provision has been dropped from the Senate Finance compromise bill because, he said, it could be “misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly.”
Not only that, but he also directly attacked the House Dem proposal by floating the idea that it leaves end of life issues “open to interpretation.” Here’s Grassley’s statement:
“The bill passed by the House committees is so poorly cobbled together that it will have all kinds of unintended consequences, including making taxpayers fund health care subsidies for illegal immigrants. On the end-of-life issue, there’s a big difference between a simple educational campaign, as some advocates want, and the way the House committee-passed bill pays physicians to advise patients about end of life care and rates physician quality of care based on the creation of and adherence to orders for end-of-life care, while at the same time creating a government-run program that is likely to lead to the rationing of care for everyone.
“On the Finance Committee, we are working very hard to avoid unintended consequences by methodically working through the complexities of all of these issues and policy options. That methodical approach continues. We dropped end-of-life provisions from consideration entirely because of the way they could be misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly. Maybe others can defend a bill like the Pelosi bill that leaves major issues open to interpretation, but I can’t.”
Is it time for bipartisanship itself to start its own “end of life consultations”? Probably not, but Dem anger is palpable on the Hill over Grassley’s decision to throw in his lot with the “death panel” brigade at a time when he’s supposed to be the GOP’s point man for good-faith bipartisan efforts to find common ground on health care reform.
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Nice to know Grassley’s decided to side with Sen. Coburn (who made a point of campaigning on how important it was for Oklahomans to do something about the rampant lesbianism in Oklahoma public high schools).
Yes not content with a mere pocketful of crazy, now the entire country has to dance the crazy dance with the crazies.
@Greg
Any idea who writes these bills, more specifically, who actually wrote the Waxman bill in the House. I’m sure the Congressmen didn’t but was it their attorneys or some group? Thanks in advance for your answer.
Please don’t throw us in that briar patch. People will think we helped stop Obamacare? What will those 2-1 independents who agree with the protesters do?
@Tena,
Do you see now why I called for the Democrats to push the bill through, and not wait for Republicans to come around. It is not gone to happen, so let us just push it through. No time like the present.
edit:
going to happen
Liam, honey – I am not saying it’s a bad idea but if it can’t be done it can’t be done and I’m telling you Harry Reid already broke with the White House over the original deadline.
It is so not going to happen.
Actually, the Dems really shouldn’t be angry or surprised at Grassley. Never get mad when a snake acts like a snake. It’s up to the Dems to write and pass the bill they believe is best and leave the Repubs out of it. That’s why the voters put them there. Time for some courage, Dems.
grassley will never sign onto health reform. obama
has been chasing this “deather” like a lovesick puppy.
time for obama to wake up and smell the Starbucks. the
Repubs want no reform. period.
@SenGrassely & @SenBaucus
****. YOU. BOTH.
Didn’t a republican put the end of life provision into the bill?
“Didn’t a republican put the end of life provision into the bill?”
Yep – Isakson.
This whole dance with Grassley is fine, slightly annoying and entirely predictable, but it’s more about Grassley’s insecurity than any issues with the passage of legislation. At the end of the day President Obama will sign some decent health care reform bill in the 2nd or 3rd week in November, and by year’s end the Republican party will be actively contemplating whether to officially declare itself the Whig party or the Rump party.
Healthcare Decisions Day
WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions. WHEREAS, in Alaska, Alaska Statute 13.52 provides the specifics of the advance directives law and offers a model form for patient use.
WHEREAS, it is estimated that only about 20 percent of people in Alaska have executed an advance directive. Moreover, it is estimated that less than 50 percent of severely or terminally ill patients have an advance directive.
WHEREAS, it is likely that a significant reason for these low percentages is that there is both a lack of knowledge and considerable confusion in the public about Advance Directives.
WHEREAS, one of the principal goals of Healthcare Decisions Day is to encourage hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, continuing care retirement communities, and hospices to participate in a statewide effort to provide clear and consistent information to the public about advance directives, as well as to encourage medical professionals and lawyers to volunteer their time and efforts to improve public knowledge and increase the number of Alaska’s citizens with advance directives.
WHEREAS, the Foundation for End of Life Care in Juneau, Alaska, and other organizations throughout the United States have endorsed this event and are committed to educating the public about the importance of discussing healthcare choices and executing advance directives.
WHEREAS, as a result of April 16, 2008, being recognized as Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska, more citizens will have conversations about their healthcare decisions; more citizens will execute advance directives to make their wishes known; and fewer families and healthcare providers will have to struggle with making difficult healthcare decisions in the absence of guidance from the patient.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, Sarah Palin, Governor of the state of Alaska, do hereby proclaim April 16, 2008, as:
Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska, and I call this observance to the attention of all our citizens.
Dated: April 16, 2008
Ajax: “At the end of the day President Obama will sign some decent health care reform bill in the 2nd or 3rd week in November, and by year’s end the Republican party will be actively contemplating whether to officially declare itself the Whig party or the Rump party.”
You’re absolutely right, but in the meantime they ratcheted up a lot of hate in the full knowledge that when a bill is passed, and it will be, it will cement the hate.
The Repugs can’t disappear fast enough -
The bill’s gonna be passed with or without the GOP. This is all just political theater and you’ll have to excuse me if I’m not going to get excited about it.
You’ll notice that the winds have shifted again in the last week or so, and it looks like support for health care reform is mounting again. President Obama will have his bill, Americans will discover that they like it more and more the closer it gets to single payer, and we’ll wonder why we got so exercised in August ‘09 because of a handful of whackos (some of whom happen to be former governors of Alaska).
Bipartisan or not, that end of life provision was just plain creepy. Living will assistance is one thing, asking Doctors to become end of life advisors is quite another. If universal health care is the still the goal, giving doctors will be busy enough doing what they’re trained to do. Why ask them to become social workers for the elderly.
Reform passes, does not give tangible results: Dems might lose house of representatives and some senate seats, which will be spun as a nation-wide refusal of the “far-left” “mega-socialism” of OBOMBA.
Reform passes, seems like it has improved things: Dems maybe lose some seats in the house and in the senate, which will be spun as a nation-wide refusal of the “far-left” “mega-socialism” of OBOMBA.
Reform does not pass: Obama’s presidency is hampered just like Clinton’s, dems lose house of representatives (blue dogs will be the first ones to go) which will be spun as a nation-wide refusal of the “far-left” “mega-socialism” of OBOMBA.
Now, democrats and republicans are obviously aware of this, and the latter want reform to fail because of the above just like the democrats want reform to pass because of the above. However, the republicans getting their way with stopping reform is bad for the US, so the democrats don’t have any reason to be noble here, especially considering how much of the antipathy against reform doesn’t seem to be articulated very well apart from the sound criticism of a few wonks who actually reason and speak in good faith.
It’s up to the Dems to write and pass the bill they believe is best and leave the Repubs out of it.
…”There is a very small chance any Republicans will vote for this health-care plan. They were against Medicare and Medicaid [created in the 1960s]. They voted against children’s health insurance.
“We have a moral choice. This is a classic case of the good guys versus the bad guys. I know it is not political for me to say that,” Rockefeller added.
“But do you want to be non-partisan and get nothing? Or do you want to be partisan and end up with a good health- care plan? That is the choice.”
“that end of life provision was just plain creepy. Living will assistance is one thing, asking Doctors to become end of life advisors is quite another”
This can only come from someone who has never had to face these decisions.
Otherwise, it’s impossible for someone to be this clueless.
All the provision did was offer to pay doctors for holding these consultations with their patients.
Nothing changed – they were just getting paid for it.
Greg,
Can we get more on that “Dem anger is palpable” part? Got any quotage from unidentified sources or other elaboration? Predictable though this reaction may be, you’re the only one I’ve seen reporting it today.
Only Doctors would be qualified to explain when further medical procedures would be futile. That is not social work. It is qualified doctors giving patients their best medical evaluations on patients medical prospects.
Get information at this link,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/The-Return-of-the-Viral-Email/
Then spread the word.
Thanks.
“Man carrying “death to Obama” sign at Maryland town hall detained by Secret Service. ”
The full sign actually read: “Death To Obama, Death To Michelle And Her Two Stupid Kids”
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/08/on_the_case_1.php?ref=fpblg
@ny rick
You don’t think end of life counselling isn’t a regular part of the practice of medicine? Do you have a doctor whose patients live forever, ’cause if so I want his or her name and number so I can try to become his or her patient.
Or maybe your doctor just thinks denial of mortality is the best practice.
“Why ask them to become social workers for the elderly.”
Uh, maybe because that would be a big part of any doctor’s job who specializes in the treating the elderly. Man our system is screwed if people don’t think doctors need to really connect with their patients.
The point here for me is to avoid a Teri Schiavo situation Where the government intervenes, like it did there, and insists on keeping someone alive through doctor-induced artificial means.
And if you haven’t gone through this with parents or other relatives or loved ones, then you haven’t got a clue how much a social working doctor is needed for an elderly patient.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezuz!
If the Republicans do not want Doctors giving end of life medical decisions, then who do they want to give it.
Let me guess, some outfit that is skilled in the deadly arts.
I think I have figured out who the Republicans would like to have doing that work.
It is Blackwater.
“It is Blackwater.”
God I wish I’d said that.
I bow in your direction: (-.-)(_ _)(-.-)
Liam, we all see why you tried to push the bill through. We see and the taxpaying public is keeping track of which of their elected officials agreed with you.
No one trusts you people who all say, “personally I favor single payer, it’s the best” but call people liars who worry your proposed “reforms” lead inexorably to a single payer system. You are smoking some strong astroturf if you think this is a winning strategy.
I can’t wait for the Employee Free Choice Act, but I’m afraid the union goons will have to.
Look, there is nothing preventing a doctor from having discussions about a patients medical condition, up to and including what options are available to them as they near the end. That’s not the same thing as coddifying into law that they have these discussions. The government should be calling this insurance reform, not health care reform. That’s really more accurate. The problem is not quality of care per se but the 45 million uninsured. The less government interference between patient and their doctor, the better.
Isakson didn’t put that language in the bill Tena. That is a terrible lie and I have reported you to Linda Douglass. You’ll probably have to bump tacos with her to get out of it.
What is this I keep hearing about Republicans working in secret, wanting to kill Medicare to cut the deficit in half.
What about Grandma!
Hey, it works for Republicans right. You heard it here first.
ny nick – As I noted earlier, such doctor/family conversations happen every day in every city and there is no government official involved in any way in any part of this process. Doctors and hospitals treat these end of life consultations just as they would any sort of medical consultation and they are paid for it in all cases.
meant to specify “in Canada” where I lived for 55 years.
Why did Canada kick you out Bernie? Or did you come here for the superior healthcare?
First of all, I’m not usually in agreement with the ACLU, which is why this worries me and should everyone on this site. Not trying to go black helicopters on everyone, but I know I wouldn’t like this if Bush’s former OMD director Mitch Daniels did this…..
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/40662prs20090810.html?s_src=RSS
“That’s not the same thing as coddifying into law that they have these discussions.”
What part of this are you not getting? There is nothing required. All doctors mention it to their patients, and their patients are more than welcome to refuse to talk about it. Your insistence that it is required is representative of the problem – people form hard and fast opinions without having a clue what they’re talking about.
Baby Hugo – in case you weren’t joking, yes he did.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/is_the_government_going_to_eut.html
especially for bernie:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html
“The White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government’s leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada — and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements.
In exchange, the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) agreed to cut $80 billion in projected costs to taxpayers and senior citizens over ten years. Or, as the memo says: “Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion.”
Stories in the Los Angeles Times and the New York Times last week indicated that the administration was confirming that such a deal had been made.
…the deal seemed to be a betrayal of several promises made by then-Sen. Obama during the presidential campaign, among them that he would use the power of government to drive down the costs of drugs to Medicare and that negotiations would be conducted in the open.
And over the past several days, both the White House and PhRMA have offered a series of sometimes conflicting accounts of what happened in an attempt to walk back the story.”
Hey Greg
I know Grassley said this, but has there been any confirmation from Baucus or the other ConservaDems in the cabal that is f*cking us over on the Senate Finance Committee?
Spot on Liam! I just read that article on Thinkprogress. Palin really is an idiot! I also just read on Firedoglake.com that Grassley’s grandson voted for a law that is exactly what the end of life provision is all about. It passed this year with wide bipartisan support in Iowa. It would be nice if the media would expose these 2 clowns. I suspect that Rachel, Keith or even Ec Shultz will point this out. Hopefully tonight. The duplicity is off the charts with these Republican cretins!
We see and the taxpaying public is keeping track of which of their elected officials agreed with you.
You keep forgetting that over 1/2 of the taxpaying public thinks your ideas are idiotic and voted for Democrats specifically to make sure your ideas never came to pass.
Sorry, that’s Ed Shultz! I love Big Ed!
Good job as any non fool knows this provision would be implemented incorrectly as soon as the enourmous costs of this plan gets into year two. They will franticly be searching for ways to reduce/ration costs/care and this clause if in the bill would give them just what they need to dramticly reduce costs.
I do wonder why no bill has addressed tort reform, well I really do understand why “lawyers” are exempt just like our elected officials exempt themselves for the very plan they want to cramp down our throats.
Address those who need insurance, cut the waste fraud out of medicare and medicad and use those $$ to insure the uninsured that really can’t afford it. Not those who just don’t want to pay for healthcare and could afford it if they made it a priority over their superficial luxuries they must have.
Mandate that insurnace companies can no longer reject “pre-existing” conditions. Utilize all the non-profit organiztions that currently offer free healtcare via local clinics. Without fixing the current issues and just rushing any bill through to make you feel better shows that those who claim to know what is “best” for the average American are truly clueless and boardline “stupid” or is it arrogance. you pick.
If you want to send the IRS your extra income to help out then do it but don’t force others to pay for healtcare so you feel better about yourself. Put your money where your mouth is.Take your $$ and buy someone or a family the coverage you want them to have. But to force unwilling taxpayers to pay for your trillion dollar feel good ideas that fix nothing is beyond the pale of American. It is down right against every thing in the US Constituion and everything American. There are many nations on this planet that fit the needs of progressives leave America with your unconsitutional robbing at gun point of American taxpayers. You don’t believe it is at gun point then just stop paying your taxes and ignore any attempt from the IRS to collect them and you will find yourself being lead from your house at gun point and taken to jail.
nice huh!
All the talk of reform and I have not heard anyone mention TORT REFORM. Seems to me that we leave in the medical-malpractice insurance that helps create some of the inefficiencies and creates an epidemic of defensive medicint that dow no medical good.
The less government interference between patient and their doctor, the better.
As things stand now, the less government is involved the more the insurance companies stand in between a patient and the doctor. Given that the insurance companies are only accountable to shareholders who only want them to make money, regardless of the damage done to patients and doctors, I’d say your suggestions miss the mark badly.
You keep forgetting that over 1/2 of the taxpaying public thinks your ideas are idiotic and voted for Democrats specifically to make sure your ideas never came to pass.
–
lol I love these kinds of comments.
Talk to you after 2010 when the real idiots will be voted out and it will be both D and R but the D (dumbos) will take a beating like they have never seen in their life! Keep up the good work!
sbj – you omitted a few passages there, didn’t you? Eg memo provided by a healthcare industry individual and denials from both camps that it reflects what went on. Naughty.
We’ll see how this all comes out in the wash. But the reality of things at this level of institutionalized profit-taking (trillions per year) simply means that negotiations will be necessary. I’m not interested in another administration which considers that a dictatorial or authoritarian mode of governance (with lots of flags) represents my understanding of democratic process.
Smidget says:
“What part of this are you not getting? There is nothing required. All doctors mention it to their patients, and their patients are more than welcome to refuse to talk about it. Your insistence that it is required is representative of the problem – people form hard and fast opinions without having a clue what they’re talking about.”
I never said “required”, I said coddifyed into the law. The bill creates a financial incentive for doctors to do something they should be doing in the first place. It’s unneccessary, difficult to administer, open to abuse and fraud and wastes precious healthcare dollars. Think about it, How do we monitor these consultations? How do we measure compliance? How much infrastructure, people, systems, paperwork will it require to inplement this one provision of the law? Is that cost really worth it? Will in really increase quality of care?
Where are some of you getting your info? The only thing this option does is give the patient assistance in what measures they want taken should they become seriously ill along with living wills and other instructions they want carried out. If you want extreme measures taken to keep you alive, that’s what you’d get and Medicare would pay for it. The most important part of this is being ignored. IT’S OPTIONAL! It is NOT MANDATORY! This is just a service that current insurance companies offer except you have to pay for it. Medicare currently doesn’t pay for this service and would offer to should the bill pasS. That’s it! Nothing more!
saysmoreaboutU
You definitely seem to have your talking points down, but let me ask you this. How much is it estimated that tort reform will save in health care costs?
Do you know?
Yes, we’ll see how this all comes out in the wash. I’m not naughty (well, sometimes) – I not only provided the link but also included the fact that they tried to pushback with conflicting accounts. (Conflicting accounts after confirming accounts – but I know that won’t sway you.)
I’ll convince you yet, Bernie!
ny nick
Its pretty simple, the bill that the doctor would normally send to the patient now gets send to medicare for reimbursement. What the hell is complex about that?
sbj – a certified check would help
Yes, saysmoreaboutU, your comment certainly does:
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
- John Kenneth Galbraith
let’s see everytime I go to the hospital for even a test I am ask about a living will. When my mother’s kidney’s shut down and it was possible that she may not make it, end of life was discussed at my request with her drs and the hospital staff. Government was not needed at all and had they been involved it may have been the end of her life. Instead she recovered and is living a full productive life.
how can the party of “stay out of my bedroom” invite the government into their personal life with glee? you people must be so confused as your views conflict 180 from your views of the bush era. I guess that’s what happens when you rely on your party to tell you what to think. how un-american.
tort reform is not address because it actucally could help to bring about real reform. Just like our current government is so busy telling the free market what a crappy job their are doing when all the while it is our government that needs oversight, reform and are more corrupt than any free market could be. Matter of fact they use the free market to obtain their corrupt power and greed. But it is not enough for this Admin they must control all aspects of America and shut down all opposition at any cost!
“evil-mongers”
“un-american”
“brown shirts”
in the past you only hear leaders from third world dictators talk to their citzens in that manner, it is not the future of America brought to you by Obama, Pelosi, Reid, the union and their blind followers.
How proud you supports of this should be that the top 3 leaders in American use WWF tactics against the citzens of American while you cheer them on.
lol I love these kinds of comments.
Talk to you after 2010 when the real idiots will be voted out and it will be both D and R but the D (dumbos) will take a beating like they have never seen in their life! Keep up the good work!
Ah, I see – another 12 year old masquerading as an adult.
sqwhite said : “Its pretty simple, the bill that the doctor would normally send to the patient now gets send to medicare for reimbursement. What the hell is complex about that?”
Well, that’s it. It’s really a matter of acknowledging that such consultations constitute a necessary part of medical service and that the service provider (the doctor) ought to be reimbursed for this service as he would any other.
Oddjob says:
“the less government is involved the more the insurance companies stand in between a patient and the doctor. Given that the insurance companies are only accountable to shareholders who only want them to make money, regardless of the damage done to patients and doctors, I’d say your suggestions miss the mark badly.”
Not really, if you read the entire thing, I agree, it’s not health care reform we need, it’s insurance reform. We need to get everyone covered and at a lower cost.
@bernie
don’t mean to divert you from your current discussion and since you’re a rationle person….what’s your take of this article from the ACLU?
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/40662prs20090810.html?s_src=RSS
I’m obviously sure conservatives are going to have a hard time with this…..will liberal leaning people too?
@bernie: It’s not worth all that! (Besides, are you even a citizen?) Let me ask a simple question. Do you think that the insurance cos, and the pharmas, and the hospital industry are going to end up on the losing side of this, or do you think that they will end up working with the Dems and the admin to achieve “reform” that actually insures their profitability?
I will support Malpractice tort reform, as soon as the Medical profession agrees to make the records of all doctors available on line, so that people can look up which Doctors have a bad history, and can be avoided.
When the Doctors stop protecting those bad apples, then I will agree to tort reform. As it stands now, many cases are settled with a hush clause, that forbids the patient from even talking about what happened. That is designed to cover up, and protect the reputation of bad doctors. If the Doctors want lower Insurance rates, then stop working to keep the bad doctors in the system, and shielded from the public.
Transparency on the doctors part, would go a long way toward solving the insurance rates problem. Hell, they could then have a government program, similar to the FDIC, where they pay nominal amounts into a pool that would go to provide life long care for those who have been disabled by a bad doctor, or paid a reasonable settlement amount for lesser injuries.
It should all start with the Medical profession being willing to out the bad apples. As it stands now, when I want to find a doctor, I have no way of looking into their records, or if they have settle cases out of court, and had the records sealed.
saymoresaboutU
Seriously, who gave you the script you are typing away from? Maybe you missed the last 8 years where when people were pointing out that Bush was lying about WMD evidence he called them traitors who hated America. Maybe you missed the part when people protested the War after it was started were said to hate the troops Maybe you missed the part where people who objected to our country torturing people were accused of being terrorist sympathizers
You can **** off with your bullshit whinning. NOBODY has been villified more than the left over the last 8 years. And if you want people to stop calling you unAmerican then you shouldn’t shout people down and try to keep them from exercising their first amendment rights.
The wingnuts love breaking Godwin’s Law, don’t get mad at us for exposing you clowns.
@SG: Did you see Baird’s apology today?
“–
lol I love these kinds of comments.
Talk to you after 2010 when the real idiots will be voted out and it will be both D and R but the D (dumbos) will take a beating like they have never seen in their life! Keep up the good work!”
Heh
I’m saving this comment and I’m pulling back out after the next elections.
In case you didn’t get it – of the just under 110 Million Americans who voted in the last election, 70 million voted in favor of reform by voting for the candidate who ran on it.
You are a very small, though admittedly obnoxiously loud, minority.
“but Dem anger is palpable on the Hill over Grassley’s decision…”
Yes, but is the president even the slightest bit annoyed, or would he like to restate yesterday’s high praise for his Republican helpmate, Senator Grassley?
sgwhiteinfl- I haven’t missed anything the leaders of the left acted like WWF celebrities during those years also, the left also acted like rabid attack drones with their thousands of Bush is Hitler pictures and remarks again morally bankrupt and now crying that the tatics they have mastered over the last 50 years are being used against them and in this case it actually fits. Now we have the this admin putting on the official whitehouse blog a link to turn in others for opposing political views that might be “fishy” who is trying to shut down free speech once again? This is not the left that I grew up with the left that would never let the government get away with stomping on the 1st admendment rights of citizens let alone support it.
““The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
- John Kenneth Galbraith”
I love it when that one starts going around.
sgw, I can guarantee that tort reform is estimated to save a positive amount. This is in contrast to Obamacare which according to the Democrat-controlled CBO “saves” a negative amount, i.e. it saves nothing and spends more.
When you typed that about tort reform, sgw, did you feel like that was a good point? And you wonder why no one with a paying job would ever trust you to spend their tax dollars.
oh forgot about
the “Bush assisanation” movie
hanging Bush and Palin in effigy
drowning out any conservative who dare speak at a university
protesting and vandilizing military recruiting offices
week long protests outside GWB’s home in Texas
hey isn’t Obama going on vacation in Martha’s vineyard? Maybe a huge protest needs to camp out on the street for the week and ensure his time away with his family is meet with opposition.
nah we have more class than that and don’t care if he want’s to vacation with the snobs he feels at home with.
“, the left also acted like rabid attack drones with their thousands of Bush is Hitler pictures and remarks again morally bankrupt and now crying that the tatics they have mastered over the last 50 years”
Let’s get this straight – everything that was said about Bush during those 8 years didn’t even get close to the mark on how very bad he and Cheney really were. If you don’t recognize how very close Bush/Cheney came to imposing a police state here you are just willfully blind.
Cheney wanted to defy Posse Comitatus, and just “see what happens with the Constitution.”
I’m sick of the comparisons because there is no comparison. WE WERE RIGHT ABOUT BUSH.
I notice the messaging is very clear among the commenters here: you people (we know who we are) need to pay more taxes and shut up about it already. Maybe if you used this as your battlecry the Obamacare debate would be going better for your side.
“# Baby Hugo | August 13th, 2009 at 05:25 pm
I notice the messaging is very clear among the commenters here: you people (we know who we are) need to pay more taxes and shut up about it already. Maybe if you used this as your battlecry the Obamacare debate would be going better for your side.
”
How many times does someone have to tell you that unless you make enough money to be in the top 25% tax bracket – and I’m betting heavily you’re not – your taxes will GO DOWN.
And you, oddjob, keep forgetting that probably 55% of Democratic voters (not counting the ones voting from the graveyard) pay nothing in income tax. They are on the hungry (but oddly often obese) mob that the rest of us are supposed to be supporting.
BabyHugo
I asked a simple question. Obviously one you can’t answer. Just to give you one more try, how much is it estimated that tort reform would save in health care costs? People will tell you that I can be an a$$hole about stuff like this so you have a few options. Answer the question if you know it. Admit you don’t know it and move on. Or just stay silent. But if you keep trying to change the subject I will keep exposing you for the know nothing ninny that you really are.
Dear Senator Baucus:
Thank you so much for selling us down the river to this creep.
And why the hell does this Senate finance Committee Panel have 50/50 partisan membership when the Senate is at 60/40? Why doesn’t that get any attention? Do you REALLY think the Republicans would ever thumbs their noses at the voters that way?
I’ve actually liked you i the past, Senator Baucus, but you seem to forget how you wound chairing a Senate Committee and it was by the help and donations of a lot of Democrats. Without us, no Chairmanship.
Please keep that in mind next time you have a mind to put your thumb in our eye.
.”that probably 55% of Democratic voters (not counting the ones voting from the graveyard) pay nothing in income tax. They are on the hungry (but oddly often obese) mob that the rest of us are supposed to be supporting.”
And you, BabyHugo, just pulled that number out of your ***.
tena you could not comprehend a point if it poked you in the eye.
call bush what you want I could care less but don’t start whinning like a little baby when obama is called names. it just proves hypocrisy and shows what child like minds you have.
also do save my post until after 2010 you can use it to wipe the tears from your eyes.
It’s all about D & R for you. For most Americans showing up at these meetings it’s about our Elected officials and we don’t care what is behind their title they will be exiting stage right if they continue to spend this country into oblivion. You actually think your party one because the DNC is so honest and cares about Americans? Nope they won because the RNC was booted out. Now the DNC has screwed the pooch in lest than 6 months into their total power and they will get the same treatment as the RNC, more likely worse since the elite snobs want to continue to call us names.
trying being an independant thinker and not taking marching orders from DNC. It just might awaken a brain cell or two in the noggin of yours.
@saysmoreaboutU
Tort reform des not work. It was passed in TX by Gov Shrub. It did not lower malpractice ins cost. It works for the insurance companys by limiting thier liability. So your good Dr. can jack you up permanently, and his insurance will only pay 250k max. (here in good ol TX) Your good ambulance chaser gets his cut. You will be left with squat. Good luck living on squat
oh lord now we have another “independent” in saysmoreaboutU. Are you going to tell us all that you aren’t really a Republican now and that you hate each party equally? LMAOOOO You guys need to be more original. At least try criticizing the Republicans some before trying to convince people you aren’t just another wingnut troll. Too many commenters here have way too much common sense to fall for that.
explain why it is so upseting that this clause is not made into law? How does not having this clause cause the uninsured to be exempt from obtaining healthcare?
I thought the whole goal of this agenda was to insure those who are uninsure.I’m finding out by haning with on this blog that supports anything everything DNC that it really isn’t about helping those who need help obtaining health insurance it’s about how dare any elected official go against this massive agenda to control the American Citizens. You are proving it with every article like this, something that never should have been in this bill to start with. You don’t care if this bill is once in law is a total failure and massive drain on our economy.
“tena you could not comprehend a point if it poked you in the eye.
call bush what you want I could care less but don’t start whinning like a little baby when obama is called names. it just proves hypocrisy”
NO it doesn’t. It’s a False Equivalency.
There’s no comparison between “Death to Obama and Michelle and her stupid daughters” and “Bush Lied about the War.”
It’s a false goddamn equivalency and there’s no hypocrisy in this at all – you’re seeing something that isn’t there.
tort reform will work if you cap what the attorneys fees are.
they won’t file frivilous suits if there fees are capped. Right now they get 1/3 plus expenses. expenses include hourly rate, office supplies and anything else they can suck out of you.
@liam- I agree the drs need to police themselves needs to be part of tort reform.
now how can we get our elected officials to police themselves better?
@sgwhiteinfl- your tatics are tiring tryin another line, I would not lower myself to be a R or a D. So continue to spout your fairytails and when you have some actual facts to discuss I’ll respond to you. you have convinced me you have nothing to offer so have a nice one.
“saysmoreaboutU | August 13th, 2009 at 05:52 pm
tort reform will work if you cap what the attorneys fees are.
they won’t file frivilous suits if there fees are capped.”
Yeah, tort reform fixes the health care system like lowering taxes fixes everything else. That’s the new mantra.
Why is it that doctors are a special class who get government protection from responsibility for their mistakes? There isn’t another class outside of government in the country that gets this special treatment. And it’s not like they don’t make mistakes – up to 100,000 American’s worth a year.
Totally OT, but I found this column seriously cool, not because I’m a supply-sider, but because it’s nice to know even some of the wingnuts get it.
(Hat tip, Patrick Appel, over at Sully’s blog.)
tena you still don’t get it and are so stuck on comparisons. there were many kill bush phrases, statement and even a movie to assasinate him. It’s wrong just like it’s wrong for that man have a sign death to obama,michelle and his daughters. there is no difference between the two. one is not worse than the other because both are wrong unless you are a hypocrite.
face it the left since the 60’s, most of my life time have the market place of spewing violence and hate over average americans. weather underground, eco terror,
sure there are a few right wing nutters that pop up and I dispise them also but in overall market place of insults, fear mongering and violence the left wins hands down. Just look at the comments our elected officials spew from there mouths with ease towards americans that are outraged over this out of control government that is making bush look like a conservative and genius. the dnc has blown it and it will get worse judging by how ballastic the reaction from the left is over the “end of life counseling” being taken out of the bill.
“saysmoreaboutU | August 13th, 2009 at 05:58 pm
tena you still don’t get it and are so stuck on comparisons. there were many kill bush phrases, statement and even a movie to assasinate him. It’s wrong just like it’s wrong for that man have a sign death to obama,michelle and his daughters. there is no difference between the two. one is not worse than the other because both are wrong unless you are a hypocrite.”
Dude, just because you say so don’t make it so. Show me the “Kill Bush” signs – show me. Show me the hanging in effigy publicly. There wasn’t anything like that. And you just keep on ploughing away at it.
You’re trying to set up the left with a False Equivalency.
tena tort reform is one of the many things that needs to be addressed concerning healthcare to leave it out shows a lack of wanting to address the real issue’s.
you are so concerned about those that can’t afford insurance but yet don’t give a **** if dr’s can’t stay in practice due to their outragous insurance preimums. the more you speak the more of a hypocrit you look like. I think you have it in you to be rational and address the issues but you just can’t get that D out of your way when your mouth opens.
if dr’s can’t afford to practice due to high insurance rates what good is healtcare reform?
think about it and why such an opposition to addressing one of the reason healtcare is out of control in costs?
this is why our government D & R make things worse when they claim they are fixing something they don’t address what would really fix it, they address what will keep them in power and give them more power. then they package it up all nice and pretty on pamphlets and distribute them to their followers who blindly follow with glee.
Hey, saysmoreaboutu – you are just making claims right and left and I do not see one bit of evidence to back up one thing you say.
Nothing is so because you say so.
This is great news!!! This means we don’t have to play like we’re being bipartisan. We can now say we tried to work with the GOP but as you can see, they won’t come to the table so we were forced to go it alone…
This is the green light, cram it through with public option in tact.
tena are you telling me a movie was not made about assianating bush?
Also I don’t have to set up any false equivilency the left and their radical actions are well document and I lived through most of it.
The right wing radicals have their own history of violence and I don’t deny that at all nor do I condon their acts but I have yet to see in my lifetime radcials from the right as organized and active as the left past and present.
My point bottomline is don’t cry and whine about actions of others that your party employs as a basic tatic.
tena once my post with links is approved by the moderator you will learn I back up what I say and hopefully then you can face reality as I have provided you with more facts with links to back them up then you deserve.
now back to the subject at hand why all the outrage over this clause? not one of you have explain how not having this clause causing the uninsured to lose their chance for taxpayer provided healthcare.
if all you can do is attack my person then I will take that as a sign that you have nothing to offer and don’t want a solution that will actually fix the issue but just want that big D to get it’s way no matter the cost to this nation and not just in $$$.
Chuck | August 13th, 2009 at 06:15 pm
This is great news!!! This means we don’t have to play like we’re being bipartisan.
—–
LOL like we don’t know it is all an act anyway! But thanks for confirming it and reenforcing that the DNC and it’s followers only care about their party and the rest of America can go take a hike! woohoo 2010 can’t come any faster!
Grassley knows he’s lying.He’s not addressing the reasoning citizen…he’s addressing the crazies. Lending approval to the activity of thugs…empowering them with credibility from a ranking legislator to legitimize their ravings. There should be no doubt as to the sleazy motivations of this hypocrite who couldn’t give a hoot about your ‘grandma’. “That’s not what your wife said” let everyone know how classless Grassley is. Iowans get their ‘money’s’ worth but not their vote’s worth from this bought and bribed jackal. If all you did was vote for him without paying then he don’t know ya. He and Baucus make quite a pair…and this is what we have stalling the most important legislation of the last 50yrs…as they try to ‘gum it to death’. No wonder the people are becoming so bitter toward the senate process…the people’s business has become senate profit
So is it just a coincidence that Obama keeps naming the Republican Senators who are trying to play both sides of the fence? You know playing at being bi-partisian and trying to keep the base satisfied. This recanting is starting to be a regular occurrence. I kind of like that chess move. It cute the ****, and shows to those paying attention who is playing more politics as usual (something the average American voter is tired of) and who is trying to get something done.
Sorry cuts the c rap.
Is there any doubt that every Republican involved in this process wants it to fail? Why does Obama want them involved at all?
here tena since you need to be spoonfeed
Kill Bush Bomb his f___ house
thepeoplescube.com/images/rallies/Bush_2.jpg
hip hop kill bush video
disturbing things I’ve ever seen.
The DVD and music-sharing website World Star Hip Hop is currently featuring a video of what appears to be an elementary school student threatening to kill President George W. Bush.
I have absolutely no interest in embedding this video, and strongly caution readers about excessive vulgarity, as well as almost unthinkably offensive content; although curiosity will likely get the best of you, please think twice before clicking on that link above.
newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/04/20/hip-hop-website-features-video-child-threatening-kill-president-bush
kill bush
maaadddog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kill_bush.jpg
kill bush game
pictogame.com/en/play/game/aOM6TtpFCKHE_kill-bush
assinate bush movie
digg.com/movies/Death_of_a_President_Bush_Assassination_Movie_Debuts_in_Toronto
Nobel Peace Prize Winner peace activist speaking in dallas “she could kill Bush” apoligizes
dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-peace_12nat.ART.State.Edition1.43b8067.html
Am I allowed to write that I would like to hunt down George W. Bush, the president of the United States, and kill him with my bare hands?”
thewell-armedlamb.blogspot.com/2008/01/kill-bush.html
Man accused of threatening to kill Bush, blow up White House
cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/13/bush.threat.arrest/index.html
google search kill bush
google.com/search?hl=en&q=kill+bush&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
google image search kill bush
images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=kill%20bush%20protestor&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Can we just ignore the republicans now?
saysmore:
do you understand the difference between making a film about something _as a topic_ and endorsing an idea?
Ridley Scott made a film, Gladiator, that involved slavery. Are you saying Ridley Scott endorses slavery?
Jonathan Demme made a film that discussed cannibalism and dealt with kidnapping women to use their “hides”. Do you think Jonathan Demme thinks kidnapping is OK?
Let me guess: you haven’t even bothered to see “The Assassination of George Bush”. You obviously don’t know the first thing about the movie. It’s _not_ propaganda saying that assassination is OK. It _wasn’t_ a film saying “go kill George Bush!”
Idiot. Talking about things you don’t know.
Idiot.
if it was just the repugs that wanted this bill to fail then why did they not bring it to a vote in the house before recess?
because many dumbos don’ support this nightmare legislation written by the Apollo Alliance
gee more ties to Bill Ayers and the weather underground
you loyal fallowers are playing a dangerous game and I don’t think you really know what freedom is all about but you will if this admin has it’s way and when you finally wake up to reality most of you won’t like it.
so continue to burry your heads firmly up the rump of the DNC like good little lemmings and deny the reality that have awoken the sleeping giants!
Green Jobs czar Van Jones- Jones, a black radical, was arrested and jailed for violence during the Rodney King riots. In prison he adopted the Karl Marx philosophy and remains committed to turning the US into a communist nation. He has refined his agenda, using the environmentalist movement and the so-called “green” push in legislation to further his goals.
Many express surprise, even amazement that Obama would not only appoint an admitted communist, but one with a felony on their record to a cabinet level position. I don’t find it surprising at all. Beginning with his early association with the Weather Underground and moving on to over two decades of tutelage at the feet of Jeremiah Wright, a man who screamed “God damn America” from the pulpit, it isn’t a surprise at all that when put into the ultimate position of power Barrack Hussein Obama would begin implementing the plans his communist brethren had for this country since the fifties.
Glen Beck gave a white board demonstration about an organization called The Apollo Alliance. He finished by asking his audience to talk him out of the “crazy Tree”. Sorry Glen, can’t do it. The more you explore the associations, especially with a backroom understanding of how politics works in America, you aren’t crazy. I wish you were.
The Democrat Party, along with all of its assorted splinter groups has functioned as one vast communal organism for at least the last fifty to sixty years. There are hints of this organization going back to the days of Stalin’s reign in the Soviet Union.
In order to go anywhere within the Democrat Party, you have to be willing to toe the party line, especially when it comes to social issues. There is a tiny bit of leeway on fiscal policy, hence the Blue Dogs in the party, but there is no room whatsoever on the social side. Witness Lieberman’s expulsion for his traitorous vote on the war. I saw this control in person during my tenure in the Nevada Legislature. Rosemary Womack, a fellow freshman in the Assembly, ran afoul of her party because she felt certain bills would harm her constituents’ quality of life. She voted against her party’s line and for that sin was expelled. Take that circumstance and multiply it exponentially and you have what goes on in Washington on a daily basis. Absolute control over the party members is the aim of the Democrat leadership. Is it impossible to extrapolate that aim to include the American people?
Obama has appointed literally dozens of “Czars” to coordinate the various boards involved in the Apollo Alliance. What is alarming is that these Czars are “outside of the Constitution and the authority of Congress.” (Congressman Jack Kingston-R-GA). Unlike cabinet secretaries, these Czars have no congressional confirmation process to go through. They report directly to the President. Obama has full authority to set their salaries and job descriptions. Which one of these people was involved in the posting of a death threat on the door of the father who confronted John Dingle about the healthcare bill. I watched the confrontation. Dingle tried to push the questions aside and later accused this man of being part of a conspiracy. Pot calling the kettle…because there is no public forum or even a mild examination of their records, the Czars face no public opposition to their placement into power. If we examine those judges and secretaries GOP administrations attempted to appoint and the fanatical opposition they received, we begin to wonder if the left even knows what a true radical is.
Is it any wonder that a true grassroots uprising by a broad spectrum of American citizens over Obama’s dismantling of their rights is called a conspiracy by the left? They live in conspiracy. Obama’s Czars are simply yet another means to an end. The real danger to America is that it is becoming an ever-accelerating end. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, John Dingle and many others in the Democrat leadership have expressed, not a desire, but a need to establish this takeover of the American way of life.
The Apollo Alliance, on its surface is simply an envelop overseeing the development of “green” technologies. An examination of how Obama is dealing with this legislatively is another thing altogether. The Cap and Trade legislation, if passed, would make it impossible for any current petroleum-based business to continue. Those who could not afford the enormous expense to change over to approved “green” technologies would be forced into bankruptcy, shut down, or…this is the sneaky bit…purchased by the government as part of the Van Jones stimulus Package. Remember, The Obama Administration has gone as far as issuing open threats against any and all who oppose one of his policies. There are even white House operated site where neighbors can report neighbors for sedition. Right now a concerted effort (yes, a left-wing conspiracy) is being undertaken to financially destroy the upstart Fox Network. When it goes, there will be no media opposition to the communist cause.
The Financial Sector, Healthcare, Transportation, food production and now Power. Can anyone say “King” Obama?
canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/13687
rick I see you ignore all the other kill bush links and focus in on one that you can claim is a ok. So when someone makes a movie with the same title but substitues Obama for Bush you will defend it?
nice deflection there Rick!
hby yes ignore them and also the americans who aren’t republicans who can’t wait until 2010 so we can ignore you!
There’s no one steering this time, just a bunch of people who have stocks, money, and interests to maintain the for profit health industry. Until someone beats these horrible, greedy repugs with a thick stick, we are going to go down the rabbit hole, and no one will be safe.
It seems as if Obama has let the Republicans run away with the message. He’s going to look really weak at the end of this whole mess.
Infinity times Tena because you are a liar. The reason Linda Douglass’s star turn as Big Sister was such a joke is that her entire argument was “you are lying because Obama said something different more recently.” Obama said on multiple occasions over multiple years said that he preferred single payer and even said he thought he could get there by stealth. The plan you are pushing will clearly result in a single payer system in fairly short order. Obama says he likes markets but then he pushes this? I think he is lying again. Riddle me that? All of the emotion and antics lately have been to avoid answering questions like that. Why should anyone who doubts single payer is a good idea (which is about 60% of the country) believe Comrade Obama when he says he likes market? Obama is on tape telling a union crowd about his vision of single-payer-by-stealth. A lawyer would ask him, “were you lying then or are you lying now sir?” I think he told the union the truth because the unions run the Democratic Party now.
And Tena, just to follow up (Columbo syle), why are lawyers “a special class who get government protection” in their shakedowns? Face it folks, John Edwards wasn’t just lying to his wife. He made millions tricking 12 people who were too dumb to get out of jury duty into believing that some deep pocket “caused” birth defects. He even “channeled” the little fetuses on their way out of the womb and told the juries about the pain they were feeling. So please, tell us why that scumbag is better than these a-hole doctors (who butchered your mother if I recall Tena).
Because of the Constitution and our Rights, right? That’s why we can never reform tort law even when government will be paying all the bills? But what about this “right to health care”? Could it possibly conflict with other rights? Maybe you need to prioritize. Maybe you have allergies.
He made millions tricking 12 people who were too dumb to get out of jury duty into believing that some deep pocket “caused” birth defects.
Nice display of contempt for the Constitution there.
@saysmoreaboutU = here tena since you need to be spoonfeed
Kill Bush Bomb his f___ house
thepeoplescube.com/images/rallies/Bush_2.jpg
…
But that guy is a Republican, who else would brag about being “stupid” by putting it on their shirt.
The jury system, like democracy, is the worst except for all of the others. And the fact is many people today are contemptible in skipping jury duty because they are too busy (watching TV and playing video games probably). And so we do get some dim bulbs on juries. And John Edwards played those people with his outrageous antics. I also have contempt for you oddjob, but I was hoping it showed.
Having served jury duty in federal court in a criminal case that took six full week mornings to complete you’ll of course forgive for finding your comments disgusting.
(… forgive me ….)
Chuck I just looked at the picture you are refering to and
a. the saying is clearly on a sign the man is holding
b. it appears you are the stupid one as you can not tell a shirt from poster board
c. you further your stupidity by claiming the man is a republican
You are forgiven!
My mistake – 21 mornings.
The contempt of the Constitution displayed remains.
I agree the contempt this admin has shown for the constitution still remains and has Bush looking constitutional in comparison. Now that is BAD!
Just in time to prove oddjob’s point and from the ACLU no less.
Government Proposes Massive Shift In Online Privacy Policy (8/10/2009)
Changes Would Pose Serious Threat To Americans’ Personal Information, Says ACLU
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/40662prs20090810.html?s_src=RSS
What’s disgusting is you thinking yourbulb is anything but dim. Many people with paying jobs find it quite an inconvenience to serve “six full week mornings”. Or is it 21 days? Why not make it a month of Sundays it sounds as credible? Either way we get halfwits (and poor arguers) like you deciding to giver scumbags like John Edwards millions. Go back to Canada I say. I hear the healthcare is better.
@ producer = Look at the shirt the guy holding the sign is wearing. He is obviously a Republican to wear a shirt that says stupid while holding that sign. All that’s missing is an arrow pointing to himself.
chuck get a grip your febble attempts to deflect from the actions of the left is tiring and immature.
Baby Hugo: Tort Reform – Its not that I am specifically opposed to tort reform of any kind. I am willing to entertain the notion that we can nearly always do better. What I DO OPPOSE is when people throw up Tort Reform as the solution to run away health care costs. That is a preposterous position, used only as a way to deflect the conversation away from serious health care reform.
“Probably not, but Dem anger is palpable on the Hill over Grassley’s decision…”
Dem anger? What does that mean? Staffers for Democrat politicians? Or actual Dem politicians? Who? And what are they gonna do about it? Nothing. As usual.
Go back to Canada I say.
I hear the weather for wingnut dingbats like you is just great in Port Au Prince, where your principles about how best a society should operate are practiced daily.
Free market in its total purity. Justice is whatever the most violent one who has the most resources to kill the most people says it is.
Either way we get halfwits (and poor arguers) like you deciding to giver scumbags like John Edwards millions.
Either way you aren’t a patriot if you so freely piss on trial by jury.
May you someday come to fully appreciate its value.
yippie ki ya cow patty!
We need “End of political career counseling” for our elected officials!
I think oddjob is calling me unAmerican. Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from the leading Democrats in Congress. Oddjob served on a jury once (he claims) and now he is one of the Founding Fathers. What jokes you people are.
And oddjob, I told you it is the worst system except for all the others. I don’t really have the ability here to diagram it for you, but the meaning of that sentence is that it is the best we can do. So I do appreciate trial by jury – especially in criminal matters – I just don’t lionize a scumbag like John Edwards the way you people do. Instead I recognize him as a charlatan who tricks halfwits (that’s you oddjob) into blaming someone, anyone (provided their pockets are deep enough) for things they didn’t do. And then he takes his 40%.
smau: Your “links” don’t show any support for what you say. You are another blowhard without a clue.
I’m extremely tired of people like you, so full of bile and yourselves, but possessing no sense of logic or any common sense at all. If you are so concerned about the deficit now, where the hell were you when it became obvious to everyone with 1/2 a neuron that Bush & Cheney lied (and no, that’s not a personal smear, it’s the truth) about the reasons to go to war, and the money we put into it went down an illegal-war rathole?
*crickets* from such great patriots. You went right along with it in your silent way, didn’t you?
And now, when you are being “threatened” with OMG!! health care reform you howl like a stuck pig.
You have no credibility, can’t spell assassin, and i hope, if you and your co-idiot-logues succeed in derailing this, that you all get dropped by your revered insurance company for a trivial reason.
How incredibly stupid do you have to be to “misinterpret” the paragraph in question?
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