Exclusive: New Poll Finds Majority Of Republicans Either Believes Or Isn’t Sure About “Death Panel” Claim
Updated below.
Wow. A forthcoming poll by the nonpartisan Research 2000 for DailyKos finds that a majority of Republicans either believes, or isn’t sure about, the claim that the Dem health care proposal will create “death panels” to determine whether the sick or injured get health care depending on their “productivity in society.”
I’ve gotten an advance look at the relevant question from the poll, which will be released tomorrow, and here’s how it asks the question:
Do you think the health care reform plan being considered by President Obama and Congress creates “death panels” which have the authority to subjectively determine whether or not a gravely ill or injured person should receive health care based on their “level of productivity in society”?
Here are the numbers on how Republicans answered that question:
Yes: 26
No: 43
Not sure: 31
So a startling majority of 57% of Republicans either believes or is uncertain about the veracity of the “death panel” claim, versus only 43% of GOPers who don’t beliveve it.
The key here is that the question was specifically worded to mirror Palin’s assertion that Obama’s death panel will evaluate a person’s right to medical care based on whether they’re productive in society. More than a quarter of Republicans believe this, and nearly a third are not sure.
And lest anyone be tempted to dismiss this poll because it was commissioned by DailyKos, keep in mind that Research 2000 is nonpartisan. Just astonishing.
**************************************
Update: The full poll is now out, and it shows, strikingly, that on this question, the gap between Republicans and the rest of the world is just enormous.
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Like I said earlier, Republican strategists are claiming some sort of victory that the WH is having to address the death panel Facebook entry of Palin.
In other words, they are proud of the fact they have forced the WH to address a flat out lie. The are taking pride in their ignorance.
Not so astonishing Greg, since they believe what they hear on Fox.
It goes together.
What’s astonishing is the spinning here. Some form of government determination of who is worth enough (who will stand to benefit enough) for what procedure or drug is a part of every nationalized healthcare system in the world. They also have panels that make the determination of what drugs and procedures will be covered (and of course these decisions are never politicized).
Once again, the joke is that your side argues “you are lie telling about our plan” and then have to begin any response with “of course I think a government-run, single-payer system is preferable to the crime against humanity we have now.” Many people do not trust you because you will say anything to get this done.
Baby Hugo, did you miss the part of the question about “productivity in society”?
The Plum Line: “All dKOS, all the time.”
sbj, are you saying Research 2000 isn’t a nonpartisan polling firm?
No, I’m saying I come here to read your insights, not the results of that jerk’s commissioned polls.
“They also have panels that make the determination of what drugs and procedures will be covered (and of course these decisions are never politicized).”
And you bitched when I kept posting the proof that this is nonsense. Private insurance companies do that now as evidenced by the RudePundit story I posted 3 times last week.
One of the things private insurance companies do is refuse coverage to o, people with Down’s Syndrome, for example, as they did the family in Ohio I posted about.
Despite Sarah Palin’s bullshit, Trig would be far better off with a government run health care system that did not shut him out due to a “pre-existing condition.”
oh…sbj…soooo talking out of both sides of your mouth…you ref to Rassmu polls and that’s the GOP’s FAVORITE pollster…I just love how it’s ok if the GOP has pollster’s that lean, but it is not ok for the DEM’s to have a pollster that leans…how typical…
Our employment based insurance coverage damn near denied coverage to me because I have glaucoma – ocular hypertension. They wanted to say that that was general hypertension. My blood pressure runs 112 over 75. I do not have high blood pressure, I have glaucoma.
@jennD: I believe you miss my point. I make no claims about pollsters that lean. I do not think that the Plum Line should serve as a traffic generator for dKOS. Two posts in a row. This last one sure seems like a leak from dKOS to other blogs as a means to generate traffic.
“# sbj | August 17th, 2009 at 01:27 pm
@jennD: I believe you miss my point. I make no claims about pollsters that lean. I do not think that the Plum Line should serve as a traffic generator for dKOS. Two posts in a row. This last one sure seems like a leak from dKOS to other blogs as a means to generate traffic.”
What a chickenshit comment.
People live longer in Canada and The EU, than in the USA, so all those slack jawed FOX SPEWS, viewers, if they really want to make sure that their Grannies achieve longevity, they better move those Grannies to Canada or the EU.
Tina hits the nail on the head… you have back-to-back stories – One that tells us that R’s love Fox News and buy into it’s storylines, and the next that tells us R’s believe in death panels. One thing leads to another… and the dumbing down of this country continues.
@tena: How’s that?
Much anger today.
Regarding some of your points about pre-existing conditions and coverage and public vs private insurance. If private insurers now determine what drugs and procedures will be covered, then won’t a public option necessarily have to do the same? It is possible to force private insurers to cover those with pre-exisiting conditions without creating a public option.
Tena wrote: @jennD: I believe you miss my point. I make no claims about pollsters that lean. I do not think that the Plum Line should serve as a traffic generator for dKOS. Two posts in a row. This last one sure seems like a leak from dKOS to other blogs as a means to generate traffic.”
What a chickenshit comment.
_________________
No kidding. As if whether Kos leans has any bearing on whether the story has merit. To sbj, its veracity is apparently irrelevant if he doesn’t approve of the source.
@john Frum: The veracity IS irrelevant, but that is not because of the source, that is because my point has nothing to do with the poll results. I do not want The Plum Line to serve as a traffic generator for dKOS.
“I do not want The Plum Line to serve as a traffic generator for dKOS.”
Dude let me spell this out in small words: THIS IS NOT YOUR BLOG.
Baby Hugo wrote:
What’s astonishing is the spinning here. Some form of government determination of who is worth enough (who will stand to benefit enough) for what procedure or drug is a part of every nationalized healthcare system in the world. They also have panels that make the determination of what drugs and procedures will be covered (and of course these decisions are never politicized).
_________________
Thank you for following up your complaint re spinning by providing a sterling example of it. Not only do you mischaracterize by fudging the definition of “worth”; you also fail to note that your definition exactly fits the insurer-based system under consideration for reform.
It’s not my blog?
Holy carp! Does that mean I can’t offer my opinion anymore? Can I still post comments?
@Greg:
It’s not astonishing at all when you consider your previous post, about 74% of Republicans who refuse to watch any other network news.
I love it! sbj wants proof FNC isn’t reliable and chides Greg for not posting items he wants to read. Classic sbj. Hey sbj, you know if you take the ’s’ off your name it spells bj don’t you?
More importantly though, FSN actually reported that Obama attended a madrassa and that he wants to impose sharia law in America. How less reliable can you get?
This type of finding about the Republican base is not surprising. They tend to follow blindly, and believe what ever spin is tossed at them by the Republican disinformation Ops.
Look at how many of them clung to the WMD lie, after all the evidence was in, and even Shrub had admitted that the WMD claims did not come true.
Remember how many Republicans were still in denial, and making up excuses, such as Saddam just moved all the missing WMD to Syria.
I always got a kick out of that stupid claim.
They were basically saying that Saddam build up a huge cache of WMD to use against an invading army, and when that invading army showed up. Saddam decided to not use it.
He bought an umbrella for a rainy day, and when that day arrived, he decided to hide the umbrella, to keep it from getting wet.
FOX SPEWS viewer logic, at it’s finest.
I can’t attest to Research 2000, but my impression is that NONPARTISAN means NOT partisan, regardless of who commissions a poll. I don’t think anyone would call Rasmussen nonpartisan, but their poll results sure get quoted a lot.
@sbj:
What does it matter who commissioned the poll? Since R2K is a non-partisan polling place, then it shouldn’t matter to you who asked them to take a poll.
Plus, that “jerk” is one of the few people who releases all the poll internals, so you can really see if it’s skewed in any way.
Just because you don’t like the results – which reveal the Republican Party as a bunch of FOX addicted non-thinking winger crazies – shouldn’t mean Greg can’t post about them.
His “insight” is his astonishment at how isolated the GOP has become. Him posting these polls is merely providing evidence for proving the hypothesis.
I know that during the campaign, it was reported that we were gaining as many as 5 million new Democratic voters and the GOP was steadily losing self-identified members. Has anyone seen a breakdown on the number of registered Democrats vs. Repugs since the campaign?
“Just because you don’t like the results – which reveal the Republican Party as a bunch of FOX addicted non-thinking winger crazies – shouldn’t mean Greg can’t post about them.”
This is of course true. SBJ’s problem appears, from his/her comments, that he/she doesn’t want to believe this about the GOP. It’s that simple. He/she argued for a solid week that the canned riots were just democracy in action, despite beaucoup evidence he was shown to the contrary.
OT: “Man Carrying An Assault Rifle And Pistol Outside Obama Event”
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/2009/08/man-carrying-an-assault-rifle-and-pistol-outside-obama-event.php?ref=fpblg
This **** won’t stop ’til someone gets shot. This is bullshit. How many incidents of Liberals carrying guns were reported at Bush events? …OH none!!!
@BBQ: I’m not sure how I can state this any more plainly. I don’t like dKOS and I don’t like links or references to the site. I don’t find the results of the poll to be startling and I don’t take issue with the results. I don’t come here to defend the uninformed. Of course Greg can post whatever the heck he wants. I’m expressing the opinion that I don’t like to see links or references to dKOS; I think this leak looks particularly self-serving for Markos.
@tena: “He/she argued for a solid week that the canned riots were just democracy in action.”
Tena, I can’t believe you are still arguing this – you lost that battle!
@ sbj, come on FNC reported that Obama attended a madrassa and wants to impose sharia law in America. How less reliable can you get?
Can we just call you bj?
“- you lost that battle!”
I fooking rest my case.
No, I didn’t – you did and you still will not face that. Hell, Rachel Maddow proved that beyond any reasonable doubt.
Wow.
You missed those polls that Greg posted last week?
“This **** won’t stop ’til someone gets shot. This is bullshit. How many incidents of Liberals carrying guns were reported at Bush events? …OH none!!!”
We weren’t allowed within 25 miles of Bush, are you kidding? He had the largest, most expensive, security detail and machine in history. Karl Rove engineered every appearance down to the number of breaths an audience member could take.
I’m really really really sick of the extremely short memories on the Right – they are talking and acting like the last 8 years never happened.
sbj – what do polls have to do with it? If you were talking to me – Rachel traced that entire thing back to its source. She went from the outlet online where the rioters get their marching orders, right down to Dick Armey, his rightwing nonprofit and the K Street Lobbying firm he used to be the senior consultant for. Why did Dick quit if it wasn’t true? The whole damn show was engineered, funded, coordinated, by righwing groups that can be traced directly back to the same damn cabal who have been running right wing groups for over 20 years.
That’s not paranoia or conspiracy theories – it’s fooking facts, dude. Cold hard facts.
I suppose you think the Swiftboaters were sincere and were telling the truth cause they love democracy and America.
And I’m Marie, the Queen of Romania.
Yay! Repubicans win!!! …Through lying, death threats, and racism!! Don’t blame them though. You can’t convince a dog not to eat its defecation. Blame blue dogs and p*ssies like Mike Ross. The Dems will lose public healthcare and fail everything else because they’re scared of the rightwing whackos.
I’m not a Republican but I believe in the death panels. If they are not part of the political landscape originally, the regulations will soon be modified to allow them.
“the regulations will soon be modified to allow them.”
Well goody – you and the rest of the rightwing go first.
@tinman1967 | August 17th, 2009 at 02:24 pm
“I’m not a Republican but I believe in the death panels. If they are not part of the political landscape originally, the regulations will soon be modified to allow them.”
Oh, c’mon. Gimme a break. That is just LOOOONY.
@Queen of Romania: You’re spinning your wheels, sister. Even Gibbs, along with many Dem Senators and Representatives, acknowledged that the town halls represented democracy in action. You are very imprecise with your words as you have many times previous to this acknowledged that at least some of the protesters were legitimate. (I’m unfamiliar with the word “fooking?”)
@sbj
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fooking
“(I’m unfamiliar with the word “fooking?”)”
You would be.
I’m not imprecise – you like to pretend that I am so that you can make your own hash out of my comments.
Every politician out there was tiptoeing through that mine field, but the facts show what really happened. The facts are very very clear.
You are redefining democracy in action to include the paid rioters on the basis that the rightwing groups who funded and organized the things were democracy in action.
Ok – it’s not that I didn’t get that all along -
# tinman1967 | August 17th, 2009 at 02:24 pm
I’m not a Republican but I believe in the death panels. If they are not part of the political landscape originally, the regulations will soon be modified to allow them.
…………………………
Medicare is the government run program that is keep elderly people alive. It has been around for years, and has never been modified to allow any such thing.
Mind you, when you are old enough to claim it, it will not be able to reverse you existing condition. There is no reviving the brain dead, expect by the use of Bill Frist’s magical remote diagnostics kit.
@msmolly: Oh that’s nasty!
Tena, there is that time the Black Panthers (or was it ACORN) brandished firearms outside of a polling place in Philadelphia. Making these charges go away was one of the first things the non-political Eric Holder Justice Department did.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m7d30-Black-Panther-voter-intimidation-case-dropped-by-Justice-Department
What is all this about “death panels”? This is hardly a new phenomenon. In fact “death panels” have been hiding and operating in very plain sight for decades. The only “death panels” are the health insurance companies–who have either been given or have assumed the power to determine who lives and who dies.
@Baby Hugo. Riiiiigggghhhhht. That’s the EXACT same thing.
So, tell the truth…your screen name’s a shoutout to David Vitter, isn’t it?
Watch CNN. There is an Obama supporter at a protest in Phoenix with an AR-15. I am not that worried about it because I don’t have the pathological fear of firearms that some of you people do.
@baby hugo
where does it say the people at the philly polling place had firearms? i never heard that before. thanks
No, Baby Hugo Chavez a/k/a Barack Obama.
totallyawesome, I bet we could find a warehouse with things you don’t know. It’s called Google, use it.
Fill
man, such typical rightie behavior, ask one to prove a statement and the insults come flying. i googled black panthers + philadelphia + polling place + firearms and did not get any indication that the black panthers in question had firearms. you know, for those keeping track and such.
I don’t care if Greg links to DKos twice. If they have interesting information and are accurate, why the hell should we complain if it’s a partisan site? Isn’t the problem with media today is that it ignores honest reporting for fear of looking too conservative/liberal?
“Liberal group supposedly has firearms”=”All libs are ok with firearms”.
Logic fail. Firefox crashed three times before that comment would come through…
@Baby Hugo: whatever floats your boat, dude. If you’re thing is Hugo Chavez in a diaper, more power to you.
OMG! What is it dementia? A bad batch of coolaid? This is sad, scary and pathetic.
If you are a Republican you are either:
1) very stupid
or
2) very racist
or
3) very rich
While Palin and the other repug shills get the attention for pandering this bald faced lie lets not forget to give a special nod to the originator of the big lie former NY Lt. Gov. and current CANTEL MEDICAL CORP.’s Board of Director member – Elizabeth “Betsy” McCaughey.
Just like with the Iraq war, the Republican base only pretends to believe these lies. THey think if they emphatically insist on these falsehoods over and over, they will drown out the opposition. It worked for them with the Iraq War. But when the bottom fell out a few years later, they lost. Same thing will happen here.
Shouldn’t the headline for this story be, “Most republicans are morons?” Or is that a given?
Who cares who did the poll – the almost 2/3 of Republicans who aren’t sure or believe the ‘death panel’ fable are the same ones who still think it’s ok for the US President to lie to them and the world about why the country is going to war (or maybe they still believe in WMDs) It’s a fact that American’s don’t live as long as people in Canada or UK – could there be a relationship between national health care and IQ average too? Those who are using the media to spread lies are only partly to blame. The lack of basic understanding and COMMON SENSE among the masses is staggering. Iranians have a better idea what is going on in their country – even with internet blocks. The right to bear arms and have a clue aren’t mutually exclusive, are they?
Seriously, folks, just look at teh Bell Curve; even for something as inaccurate as IQ, it still shows us that some prtion of the population is sadly non-functional, and a larger proportion is below normal yet still minimally functional.
IOW, what Jesus said about the poor is also all too true of the hard-core stupid: they’ll always be with us. The only difference between now, and the rest of the past 50 or so years, is that currently, some people (the “reverse socialists”, i.e. those who want corporate losses socialized but corporate profits privatized) are using this group as their major political tool.
With Republicans they only watch Fox News or listen to their neighbor who does. Stupid is as stupid does.
Most of them are so uninformed, or misinformed, that Fox News could get them to believe anything and support anything even when not in their best interest. That’s why PT Barnum did so well – he understood the ignorance of the masses, or as he said, “there’s a fool born every minute”. Republican stategists, corporate lobbyists, Fox News and Rush all engage in what I call “mental rape” – they abuse the ignorant to achieve more wealth and power for the rich and corporate America.
stuck on stupid
Palin quit as governor so she could make millions like Limbaugh inciting hatred, fear and anger by making outrageous allegations and telling outrageous lies on national tv. She has no responsibility to the American people, she has no leadership authority and there is no reason to believe anything she says.
Aren’t these the same ignorant, gullible folks that still believe that the earth is only 6000 years old?
Obama is telling one lie after another, week after week, repeatedly refuted by independent groups like the CBO and the liberal parrots line up and squawk the Obama line with no objection.
Then a private citizen, Sarah Palin, uses some rhetoric that is a little hyperbolic and suddenly there is a full blown emotional tantrum by the liberals. How dare she?!
Have a dose of your own medicine. Nothing you say or do at this point will change the fact that Sarah Palin, who you hate with a passion, stole the ball from Obama in front of the whole stadium, and drove it back for a slam dunk. Both houses of Congress, the media, the unions, hundreds of millions in ads from the drug companies all helping out Barrack Obama and she pants’d him mid court.
If the GOP had decided to implement a Logan’s Run plan, Ann Coulter would be on every network selling it and Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, et al and their ilk would be pretending it made perfect sense and that one would be a fool not to see the value in terminating “useless eaters” and other undesirables. It is where conservatism was before WWII when the Silver Shirts were running around with Charles Lindbergh. It fits in well with the Scrooge-Marley philosophy of the right.
Hey Greg, nice spin doctoring. But you could have pitched these data the completely opposite way as well. Seventy-four percent (43%+31%=74%) of the respondents either don’t believe “death panels” are part of the legislation, or aren’t sure. So why do you need to spin it the negatively? Because it attracts attention? The media (you) are part of the problem.
Stupid is, as stupid does! Why am I not a bit surprised?
You people that run Huffington are like the chicom criminals
who cannot handle Truth,so would not post any Truth that
exposes the evil and dirt of cons and hypocrites where obama
is your demented leader,so you blatantly cover-up.You people
at huffington post have to lie,cheat and steal in whatever
it takes to make SARAH PALIN look she is to blame for all
your infested sins that’s plain.You people are enemies to
SARAH PALIN,because She exposes your wretchedness and covered-up big sins,that’s why you would not give her
credit for exposing obama ‘death panel’Why do’nt you go and
do your homework because obama ‘death panel’ has various
names,headed by Dr Death-Joseph Mengele ezekiel emanuel.
You people are willfully deceived and woefully willfully
ignorant.
MV
When the blind follows the blind,eventually they all end-up
in the ditch,and that’s what’s happening to those who are
still deceived and displaced by the proven fraud,cheat and
biggest thief in politics today-obama.It is astounding to see so much liberal obama-deceived bloggers at this site cannot see the Light,but are stuck in the darkness to his every sentence of lies and deceits that run-out like pollution.
The whole gang of the obama administration is filled
with chronic liers,croonies,taxcheats,thugs,thiefs,immorals degenerates just like him,no wonder the country is going down to nought,because when the foundation is destroyed then what do you think follows?
Logically speaking when Obama also continue to illegially
spend campaign money to cover-up his identity,including all
his school records,plus his medical records,on which he
would not come clean,then in the first place what does that
prove of him?All the nonsense from hocus pocus fact.org as proffs,have been proven to be bogus in respond.
His own grand mother said he was born in kenya,so accoring
to facts obama is illegal,but he gets away because the entire main stream media,except for Fox devilishly covers up
his corruptions,since they are all the same godless,liberal
immoral degenerates of one feather who are enemies to Conse-
rvative Christians!
MV
Right on MITFORD – that’s exactly what Jesus would have said.
You could be the new posterboy for the Republiklans, you moronic hypocrite.
DaMav, exactly what game were you at? First, she isn’t important enough to hate and anyway ‘passionate hatred’ is a concept more familiar to you Republiklans. However, she is a disgrace to elected office – divisive, unethical, uncompromising, dishonest, self-serving and worst of all, fully aware of her utter lack of the substantive knowledge of world and domestic issues required of a President or Vice-President, not to mention the ‘most powerful world figure’. And yet she didn’t bat an eye.
Safe to say Palin is way down on Obama’s or the Democrat’s list of concerns, now or ever. 1)She was defeated in the election. 2)Her ratings take a nose dive each time she opens her mouth. (3) She inserted the term “death panels” into the national debate about an initiative that has been clearly defined by Obama throughout his campaign and presidency; cut health care costs, improve health care delivery and provide all Americans with coverage for basic medical care. Downright evil indeed. I’m pretty sure that’s how Jesus would have summed it up.
You’d be hard pressed to find many Canadians or Brits who would trade national health care for the right to bear arms. Not too surprising that we live alot longer on average than Americans do. We seem to be thriving despite the socialist chains. BTW We’ve also fought to make it easier to have “life-ending discussions” with our physicians, but we call it an expression of our ‘living will’ for the purpose of REFUSING MEDICAL CARE that any licenced MD would otherwise be obligated to perform – YOU MORONS. Have you ever read a law book? Has Palin?
The difference is that here you don’t go bankrupt or stay home and die because you can’t afford whatever tests or procedure or medication you need. The difference here is that we don’t let the fact that some American ‘cousins’ will cross the border to procure health care by fraudulent means stop us from making sure that our citizens are taken care of. The difference here is that private health insurance and pharmaceutical CEOs aren’t drawing millions in bonuses because the only client’s they insure are rich or healthy and because they therefore can pay way over value and drive prices up for everyone else. That’s why we spend less on health care despite the fact we live longer. The difference here is that we as a nation, whatever our other differences, without compromise or divide, respect the right of every human being to basic dignity and this means basic medical care. The difference is that although we have Liberals and Conservatives, we don’t have Republiklans. Grow up, read a book, and have an original thought to both of you.
Isn’t this weird coming from someone who’s husband and children get socialized medicine through the indian health care plan? Palin’s husband is Yupik so he and his children, and his wife when she is pregnant with an Alaskan Native child, get health care through a federal government health care plan. It’s socialized medicine, isn’t it?
Stupid is as stupid does.
If that’s the case, anyone on welfare would be allowed to die?
If you are a Republican you are either:
1) very stupid
or
2) very racist
or
3) very rich
Or just not a bleeding heart imbecile like the rest of the country
I agree (partially) with “me” above — you can’t conflate “yes” with “not sure”. I don’t think this is a grand MSM conspiracy to “spin” the numbers, it’s just a silly habit that many opinionators seem to have.
Of course, the proper reading of this poll is that 31% of republicans are honest and 69% are dishonest.
Or maybe:
26% gullible mouth breathers
43% credulous cheerleaders
31% ignorant know-nothings
I think the only way we will ever have real change in government is if people finally rise up and say we’ve had enough similar to the civil rights movement of the 50′ and 60’s. The corporations have too tight a grip on government. Politicians need their donations and the media depends on their ad dollars.
It may have already been written, but the underlying
principle is a very sad lack of intelligence, educaton, ability to think flexibility, a real fear of our economic situation, insular attitudes toward global concepts, and the worst: racism.Some simply can’t accept that a black man may be smarter and more capable than they are.
I’m confused here. 43 Republicans said they don’t believe the death panel claim. Shouldn’t that number be the lead? Personally that number makes me feel better about a majority of rational Republicans rather than adding the 2 ‘whacko’ totals together. C’mon people-you gotta see some things as glass half full!
The democrats are spewing out lies and distortions in record amount. The reason they are so contentious about Sarah Palin is because she is an honest, likable, and straight as an hour on anything she says. Democrats, or as a late friend of mine loved to call them “Dummycrats!” have conjured up a massive amount of scurilous mumbo-jumbo that is as obvious noonday sun. However, your cult leader–B.O. is killing himself with the public. Just consider the approval polls that are coming out: Nancy Pelosi is only 19% approval rate, Obamas has dropped to below 50%, and Harry Reai is tumbling down to defeat due to his blind allegiance to Obama. But, let the Dummycrsts keep doing what they are right now and the conservatives will sweep into office in the next few elections.
A young lady asked today why is it that every democrat has a scowl and speaks in a mean tone, yet the Republicans always seem to be smiling or at least look friendly when they are on TV. My answer was as simple as could be: “When you are right you can smile and be friendly, but when you’re wrong the ugliness shsows on your face and sounds out in your speech.