State Department: Hillary Worries That Release Of Detainee Photos Will Endanger Diplomats
I noted here yesterday that at a press conference, Senator Lindsey Graham disclosed that Hillary Clinton had privately confided to him that she worried that the release of detainee photos would endanger the security of diplomats abroad.
It was a striking statement, because it either indicates that Hillary thinks the photos are so shocking that they’ll incite serious violence, or that the Obama administration is trafficking in some rather lurid imagery to justify its continued opposition to their release.
So I asked State Department spokesperson Ian Kelly if Hillary had told Graham this. He emailed:
Normally we don’t comment on private conversations between the Secretary and members of Congress. However, the President himself said the safety of Americans serving overseas “is a clear and compelling reason to not release these particular photos.” Foreign Service personnel — and their families — serve America in virtually every country overseas, and of course Secretary Clinton always has their safety paramount in her mind.
That’s not quite confirmation, but it’s basically an endorsement of Graham’s version of what he was told. It’s also confirmation that Hillary claims to view the release of the photos as a potential danger to diplomats and their families. It’s interesting that Hillary is privately reassuring GOP members of Congress about the Obama administration’s opposition to the release. And it won’t sit well with civil libertarians and liberals who think the Obama administration is exaggerating the danger in a big way.
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Greg; I appreciate your posts and brilliance. I am rather distracted by the continuous advertising for fossil fuels on your page? The ads start on their own and run over your posts. Do your employer’s really think that it is a good combination of truth and lies?
Greg: “the release of Guantanamo detainee photos”
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I don’t think the photos in question are Guantanamo photos – they depict U.S. military personnel abusing prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I have a dog in this fight, so I don’t claim to be impartial. But I have a son traveling on a diplomatic passport, and I think there’s no need to have every last inflammatory photo in the public sphere. What’s the point? It almost seems prurient, to say nothing of dangerous.
thx, SG, you’re right. been missin ya here. ABC, I guess civil libertarians would say that it’s a matter of law…and oldtree, thx much for that, but I can’t comment on the ads
Greg: while I appreciate the concerns of the civil libertarians I have a brother-in-law in Islamabad – 3rd year. It is a tough station, and a lot of time is spent watching one’s back. His family is here at home which add another strain. So the publication of the photos will be a problem. While Sen Graham and Sen Lieberman have an axe to grind, they are not the only one’s urging caution. We are in a mess; we know awful things have been done in our country’s name. Hanging it all out may be cathartic and say a lot about our democracy and accountability. But what will we say if our public servants are killed abroad as a result of the publication of the photos. We are in a pickle, for sure.
These people, Obama, Clinton et al, need to come clean. Either they are outrageously inflammatory enough to incite violence, or they are nothing “new” and “nothing to see here.” I have no problem with finding a way to keep them out of the public domain if they are legitimately inflammatory, but their dishonesty about it is what is raising hackles. Someone needs to STOP LYING about what they really are. Inflammatory? Fine, admit it and find a way to lawfully keep them out of the public domain. Not inflammatory? Then release them. The GOP and Lieberman should have no say in this.
I feel no pressing need for the current regime to release any photos; after all we know already that what was done under Bush/Cheney was hideous. But suppressing the photos fits with the O’Busha regime’s endorsement of just about all of the criminal acts of the Bushies. It is way past time for O’Busha to begin prosecuting the criminals and adopting Constitutionally valid policies instead of perpetuating Bush illegality. Every day that he covers up for Bush he becomes more and more complicit in the crimes. An accessory after the fact, no? We don’t need no more stinking emperors!!!
this is a whitewash by the obama administration.
everyone in our govt insists “appropriate actions have been taken” — yet the real perps: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gen. Miller have NOT been punished, so appropriate actions have NOT been taken.
safety of our troops?? PLEASE! Letting torture go unanswered, THAT is what affects the safety of our troops. This is such ****.
If Obama cared about our troops he would put Cheney and Rumsfeld on trial. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING would do more to strengthen the moderates in Iraq and throughout the region. At this point, it’s the most strategic military move we could make…
Greg, agree it’s a question of law. But as we’ve all been saying with regard to Sotomayor, law is something that is applied and interpreted. It can’t and shouldn’t be done robotically. If it is, it doesn’t serve the purposes for which it was enacted. The word judicious has to mean something.
Look, I know that people are afraid that if the photos are released, their loved ones, or friends, or acquaintances, or fellow Americans, may be endangered. But there are several things to consider in addition. First, the world knows that we’ve done some pretty bad things. Whether it’s Abu Ghraib, or the torture memos, that we’ve committed some seriously bad acts is not a secret. Therefore, it’s not clear that any reaction to a new release of photos would necessarily provoke a violent reaction, or that the violent reaction would be extreme. People know that we’ve done wrong. Second, people will argue that photos–visuals, not just descriptions–are more powerful, reach us more viscerally, so there’s more likely to be a particularly violent reaction. I’d respond to that in several ways. (A) What kind of incentives does it create, when the government can perpetrate heinous acts and then hide the evidence of those acts by claiming that releasing the evidence will endanger American lives? It creates incredibly perverse incentives. It provides a shield to the worst kinds of abuses possible. It isn’t just a matter of democratic theory, or theory of government. To that end, (B) look at the “debate” playing out between those who would justify our past torture policies and those who abhor them. Indeed, the dry, clinical prose of a legal memo doesn’t capture the horror of reality. Did you see many people cheering on the government after the release of the Abu Ghraib photos? No, of course not, Americans were horrified. As much risk as there is in a visceral reaction from non-Americans, the visceral reaction of Americans is itself vital to ensuring that these types of behaviors do not happen again. What kind of ground will torture apologists have to stand on, in the face of American revulsion at what we’ve done? If it takes the release of horrifying photographs to accomplish that, then it has to be done. We should not be allowed to shut our eyes to what has been wrought in our name. Third, it is a fact of life that Americans will be at risk in certain parts of the world, no matter what. We may, if we think it wise, demand that our government craft policies in such a way that the outcome of those policies does not result in increased danger to Americans overseas. The policies themselves, the behaviors themselves, are the problem. Yes, we have a new president who has said that he has ensured those policies will not be revived during his administration. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who think that’s the wrong thing to do. There is no guarantee that what the Obama administration says about policy will last for a meaningful period of time. Again, it’s an incentives problem. Finally, and I direct this not so much to the argument about those overseas being possibly endangered, but to the atmosphere surrounding the debate about all these issues generally. Nothing, and no one, can make us perfectly, one hundred percent safe. There is no such thing. Fear is powerfully corrosive. Consider what it means that the world’s great religions all typically share in common this message: Be not afraid! Yes, there are dangers in the world. Yes, there are risks that our actions will heighten those dangers. But to live in fear is to live in paralysis. Consider two messages from two different, but equally great, people in our history: “Give me liberty, or give me death.” Patrick Henry wasn’t afraid. “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” Fear itself is the engine of many ills. Fear itself is what we should fear, because fear wreaks havoc on our political process, on our policies, on our ability to act in a way most consistent with our values while most effectively pursuing our chosen goals. We should vigilantly guard against allowing fear to become the basis of the decisions we make. And fear is the only reason anyone has given for why these photos should remain secret, locked away, the unseen evidence of government abuse. Fear itself.
Are you people insane? The government says that they have information that makes them look SO BAD that it’s dangerous to release it, and that’s okay? Really?
I have a wild idea – let’s stop abusing detainees. Let’s actually prosecute abusers. Let’s release the damn photos and condemn our actions instead of suppressing them and trying to pretend it never happened.
“It’s a matter of law.”
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And the applicable law explicitly provides that the photos can be prevented from disclosure either via an act of congress or via executive order. If Congress doesn’t want to let Leiberman block these then the President has the authority to do it himself. Perfectly legal.
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Some of these photos depict abuse perpetrated on Afghan POWs by American troops. The war in Afghanistan is a major part of Obama’s anti-terror efforts. If you support Obama, and his escalation of the war in Afghanistan, and you want to see us succeed in Afghanistan, you’ve got to understand that these photos could incite the Afghan population against our efforts there. We are already on shaky ground – what with the innocent lives lost via drone and bombing mistakes – these photos will provide yet one more reason for the Afghans to demand our departure. And then where will we be? The taliban returning to power? Al Qaeda regaining a safe haven? Are the photos worth that?
“And then where will we be? The taliban returning to power? Al Qaeda regaining a safe haven? Are the photos worth that?”
Fear itself.
OMG….The unpublished photos must reveal unbelievably horrible abuses, worse even than we have previously seen by Cheney, Bush and Company if they could provoke the reactions predicted & feared.
The photos of US behavior are evidence of US behavior sooo bad that the world will be so shocked, so utterlyshocked, that US dips will be in deep trouble.
But without the photos, the world is sooo ignorant, that US dips will be ever so safe.
Pathetic. Disgusting. An insult to the brain.
I appreciate the concerns of the civil libertarians also but believe that prosecutions will do – in place of the photos.
no matter when the photos come out, there will be outrage. so this ‘peace in our time, o, lord’ attitude that tries to protect the people, military and civilian, who are in iraq today only endangers the people who will be in iraq tomorrow.
the photos should all be released, once and for all, and then the people responsible for the acts depicted in the photos should be punished, and everyone (especially the iraqis) should be allowed to know that the people responsible for the acts shown in the photographs have been properly punished.
otherwise, the photographs simply hang over the future of our international relationships like a knife waiting to fall. and every time any public official talks about the so called secret photographs, the world imagination is free to make the photos far worse than they can possibly be.
tell the truth. show the truth. stop endangering innocent americans by trying to pretend all americans are good and no american ever did any thing wrong. punish the wrongdoers.
@DMV: So is Obama’s escalation of the war in Afghanistan a response to unreasonable fear?
@sbj: Is Obama’s escalation of the war in Afghanistan an attempt to cover up evidence of abuse and/or crime by the government?
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That’s a non sequitur, right?
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Exactly.
If the pictures are so bad that they can’t be released without stirring up violent antiAmerican feeling, why is it that none of the perpetrators have been brought to trial? Something really does not pass the smell test.
@dmv: I guess I am not following you. You are saying that my fear that the Taliban will regain a foothold in Afghanistan if we withdraw is unwarranted. Obama has escalated our efforts in Afghanistan because he fears that the Taliban will re-emerge there. Are his fears unreasonable?
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Actually, on further thought, you ARE saying that Obama’s fears for Afghanistan are unreasonable and unwarranted. No need to respond – I get you now. I tend to agree – we should get out of Afghanistan ASAP and concentrate on al qaeda in Pakistan.
So is Hillary simply worried that the release of pictures could possibly endanger State employees & families (which of course it could, one big question being how much), or is she really lobbying to not release the pictures? She would be remiss not to consider any security implications from releasing the pictures.
I find it funny that these photos alone seem to have the power to simultaneously inflame the native populations of Afghanistan and Iraq at the same time and spark a wave of anti-American resentment the likes of which we’ve never seen before. While we’re at it, I also hear that the mere sight of these photos will cause meteors to fall from the sky, the seas to boil, the streets to run red with the blood of virgins and bring zombie Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler back from their respective graves to lead an evil zombie-facist-socialist-army and march on Washington.
Or, maybe we could try not bombing and torturing random people who kinda, sorta look like terrorists, apologizing for our actions, and holding the war criminals accountable while trying to formulate a foreign policy that doesn’t involve war as the first, last, and only option. But that would involve humility on our part. And America is humble to no one.
@sbj:
I’m saying that you have fear.
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Escalation in Afghanistan has to do with the fact that we’re not doing counterinsurgency very well there, and we need more people on the ground to be effective. There is an analysis of an existing problem, a plan for how to fix the problem, and an implementation (more troops, new general, etc.)
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Meanwhile, you’re afraid, and you don’t want to release the photos. Obama’s afraid and doesn’t want to release the photos.
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See the difference between implementing a plan devised in order to remedy existing defects that have been evaluated by trained professionals, and fear?
this is understandable. I personally have seen enough, but remember who we are dealing with, and who has already been wronged but the horrible act fo invadign iraq.
further evidence that America lied, swindled and tortured coudl easily set iraq and our other fronts back.
our presence in iraq is a huge recruitment tool already, the earlier photos of torture ditto, if more degrading acts are shown to have been done to these people. inthe name of Bush’s Holy War, (my goodness) i jsut do not wat escalating violence and more than necessary
i do nto want to see the photos esp without prosecution, because it will be further evidence as to how hypocritical we are, and our leadership will further be muddled.
we are just getting the world to take us seriously again to gain some measure of respectability, and mroality.
i do not want to see them unless cheney and his cohorts are on tril for these war crimes and they are being brought as evidecne in their prosecution. outside of that they are useless to do any good with.
@dmv: I understand your point but I disagree. We DO have evidence that releasing photos like these leads to outcomes which are detrimental to our cause. We are not tilting at windmills against some unreasonable imagined outcome – we have already seen what happens when we release photos like these. This is not an unreasonable fear that has not been evaluated by trained professionals. It is quite reasonable to predict future outcome (incitement) based on past evidence. You are simply wrong about the lack of trained professionals who have analyzed this – Gates is not a trained professional? Obama stated that he had consulted with professionals before making his decision!
dmv – Your long post is as persuasive as anything could be on this subject. I was particularly struck by this: “We may, if we think it wise, demand that our government craft policies in such a way that the outcome of those policies does not result in increased danger to Americans overseas.” Perhaps, given the fact that a lot of people are still persuaded by the Cheney torture defense, the pictures coming out is the only thing that could startle them away from their beliefs. But they don’t seem to shift easily. And, besides, today’s horror and revulsion is tomorrow’s forgotten story. If I believed that the release of every picture would mean that we would institute and embrace policies that make us behave more responsibly and morally as a nation, and that the kind of actions we’ve been engaged in don’t happen again and don’t add to the risk of the military and civilians working on our behalf, then I would sign off on that release with no reservation. But is that the clear end? And is it the only means?
I’ve reached the sad conclusion that lots of so-called “civil libertarians” don’t particularly care about safety of our troops or of our diplomatic corps. Their attitude is, “If releasing photos harms our overseas personell, then that’s because we deserve it.”
Releasing more photos would be gratuitous. Lots on “the left” are trying to have it both ways, with the “The world already knows what we did, so it would be no big deal to release photos.” Well, if the world already knows what we did, then what, exactly is the purpose of releasing photos? Seems to me, the ONLY reason would be for the visceral effect, and if that’s the case, then one has to admit that a result of such visceral effect could be to increase the danger to our overseas personell. I think the so-called “civil libertarians” know this, but simply don’t care. They want these photos released as a form of paying pennance, damn the consequences.
Thanks so much for this post this was just what I needed this morning!!!