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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s Campaign Web Site Still Blasts Bush Legal Tactic Obama Is Now Using</title>
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	<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/</link>
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		<title>By: esl</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-20198</link>
		<dc:creator>esl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 00:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-20198</guid>
		<description>Hi bloggers. I&#039;m sorry - offtopic but I need help! I must learn english better so I dont get fired. What can I do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi bloggers. I&#8217;m sorry &#8211; offtopic but I need help! I must learn english better so I dont get fired. What can I do?</p>
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		<title>By: mrjone</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-16760</link>
		<dc:creator>mrjone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 00:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-16760</guid>
		<description>Where can I find a free anonymous web proxy to visit MySpace &amp; Facebook?  My school blocks these site.  Any ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where can I find a free anonymous web proxy to visit MySpace &amp; Facebook?  My school blocks these site.  Any ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: wrongful</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-12156</link>
		<dc:creator>wrongful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-12156</guid>
		<description>Great stuff. Nice to read some well written posts. A long way between them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff. Nice to read some well written posts. A long way between them.</p>
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		<title>By: david joseph kramer</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-10731</link>
		<dc:creator>david joseph kramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-10731</guid>
		<description>my god do you people even think before you reply to these posts one person backing obama the other bush you are all fracking idiots just think about the beginning of the nazi we&#039;re just going after the gypsies now just them evil christians now the evil jews hence evil terrorists evil pirates evil right wing extremists wake the FRACK UP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my god do you people even think before you reply to these posts one person backing obama the other bush you are all fracking idiots just think about the beginning of the nazi we&#8217;re just going after the gypsies now just them evil christians now the evil jews hence evil terrorists evil pirates evil right wing extremists wake the FRACK UP</p>
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		<title>By: woah</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9584</link>
		<dc:creator>woah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9584</guid>
		<description>meet the new boss, same as the old boss....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>meet the new boss, same as the old boss&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9582</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9582</guid>
		<description>Greg, I very much appreciate your running this post demonstrating that Obama&#039;s clearly breaking, in a big and systematic way, a specific campaign pledge.

But I think you should credit Glenn Greenwald, who cited this exact passage exactly two months earlier, after the Obama DoJ&#039;s first big demonstration of their commitment to the Bush abuse of the state secrets privilege:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/10/obama/

---
To the Obama apologists: Greenwald has never denied that the state secrets privilege pre-existed Bush; he has been entirely clear that the Bush innovation was to abuse it, repeatedly and consistently, to dismiss whole cases rather than to assert it during trials on specific pieces of evidence.  That abuse is what the Feingold bill (which Biden and Obama supported when they were in the Senate) seeks to ban, and is what Obama pledged to end as President.  

Neither Greenwald nor Feingold supports ending the ability of an administration to assert state secrets privilege at all.  But it should be clear to everyone who thinks about it for a few minutes that giving the executive branch the ability to make legal cases disappear by means of a broad, unreviewable assertion of state secrets privilege is an enormous expansion of power.

I am not willing to cede that kind of power to any president -- Barack Obama, George W. Bush, or George Washington.  Unless Congress pares back this unaccountable power, blessing Obama&#039;s (and Bush&#039;s) abuse of it is equivalent to kissing goodbye the separation of powers and the system of checks and balances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, I very much appreciate your running this post demonstrating that Obama&#8217;s clearly breaking, in a big and systematic way, a specific campaign pledge.</p>
<p>But I think you should credit Glenn Greenwald, who cited this exact passage exactly two months earlier, after the Obama DoJ&#8217;s first big demonstration of their commitment to the Bush abuse of the state secrets privilege:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/10/obama/" rel="nofollow">http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/10/obama/</a></p>
<p>&#8212;<br />
To the Obama apologists: Greenwald has never denied that the state secrets privilege pre-existed Bush; he has been entirely clear that the Bush innovation was to abuse it, repeatedly and consistently, to dismiss whole cases rather than to assert it during trials on specific pieces of evidence.  That abuse is what the Feingold bill (which Biden and Obama supported when they were in the Senate) seeks to ban, and is what Obama pledged to end as President.  </p>
<p>Neither Greenwald nor Feingold supports ending the ability of an administration to assert state secrets privilege at all.  But it should be clear to everyone who thinks about it for a few minutes that giving the executive branch the ability to make legal cases disappear by means of a broad, unreviewable assertion of state secrets privilege is an enormous expansion of power.</p>
<p>I am not willing to cede that kind of power to any president &#8212; Barack Obama, George W. Bush, or George Washington.  Unless Congress pares back this unaccountable power, blessing Obama&#8217;s (and Bush&#8217;s) abuse of it is equivalent to kissing goodbye the separation of powers and the system of checks and balances.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9424</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9424</guid>
		<description>President Obama could spit in the face of most of the people commenting on the blog and they would say it was thank you.  The gander rule needs to be applied to get real Change and Hope.  I voted for President Bush disagreed with many of his policies agreed with some.  I give them both one complement neither are brainless cowards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>President Obama could spit in the face of most of the people commenting on the blog and they would say it was thank you.  The gander rule needs to be applied to get real Change and Hope.  I voted for President Bush disagreed with many of his policies agreed with some.  I give them both one complement neither are brainless cowards.</p>
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		<title>By: Dude</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9420</link>
		<dc:creator>Dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9420</guid>
		<description>There is nothing wrong with asserting the privilege if it is defensible. 

The problem is when it is a mindless, default position.  As an example, there are lawyers who, in the course of civil discovery or other document/information production situations, automatically, as a matter of course, assert the attorney-client privilege over a document if it has a lawyer&#039;s name anywhere on it.  This is particularly the case with e-mails -- if a lawyer is anywhere in the &quot;To&quot; or &quot;CC&quot; lines (or the &quot;From&quot; line), it is privileged, according to this type of lawyer.  These lawyers assert the privilege in rote fashion, without actually considering the elements of a proper privilege claim (for a decent discussion, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney-client_privilege).

On the other hand, there are lawyers that take a more narrow view of the privilege, and consider issues like the content of the communication, the number of parties to the communication, the identities of the parties to the communication, etc.  If the lawyer thinks that, after considering all of these facts and circumstances, the communication is one that fits within the scope of the attorney-client privilege, he or she asserts the privilege, and, to my mind, that assertion is defensible.

My understanding of President Obama&#039;s objections to the previous administration&#039;s claims of &quot;state secret privilege&quot; is that he objected to the same sort of rote, grossly overinclusive (or at least grossly underconsidered) claims of the privilege made by the Bush Administration.  That is not to say that there are not appropriate state secret privilege claims, only that there are certainly INappropriate ones.

All of this is to say that I don&#039;t take Obama&#039;s objections to have been to the CLAIM of privilege per se, but to the justifications (or lack thereof) underlying those claims.  I certainly don&#039;t approve of a lawyer mindlessly asserting privilege over any document that mentions a lawyer&#039;s name, but I DO approve of a properly-made claim that fits squarely within the concept of privilege set down in law.

If I&#039;m correct, you really need to stop wringing your hands about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing wrong with asserting the privilege if it is defensible. </p>
<p>The problem is when it is a mindless, default position.  As an example, there are lawyers who, in the course of civil discovery or other document/information production situations, automatically, as a matter of course, assert the attorney-client privilege over a document if it has a lawyer&#8217;s name anywhere on it.  This is particularly the case with e-mails &#8212; if a lawyer is anywhere in the &#8220;To&#8221; or &#8220;CC&#8221; lines (or the &#8220;From&#8221; line), it is privileged, according to this type of lawyer.  These lawyers assert the privilege in rote fashion, without actually considering the elements of a proper privilege claim (for a decent discussion, see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney-client_privilege)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney-client_privilege)</a>.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are lawyers that take a more narrow view of the privilege, and consider issues like the content of the communication, the number of parties to the communication, the identities of the parties to the communication, etc.  If the lawyer thinks that, after considering all of these facts and circumstances, the communication is one that fits within the scope of the attorney-client privilege, he or she asserts the privilege, and, to my mind, that assertion is defensible.</p>
<p>My understanding of President Obama&#8217;s objections to the previous administration&#8217;s claims of &#8220;state secret privilege&#8221; is that he objected to the same sort of rote, grossly overinclusive (or at least grossly underconsidered) claims of the privilege made by the Bush Administration.  That is not to say that there are not appropriate state secret privilege claims, only that there are certainly INappropriate ones.</p>
<p>All of this is to say that I don&#8217;t take Obama&#8217;s objections to have been to the CLAIM of privilege per se, but to the justifications (or lack thereof) underlying those claims.  I certainly don&#8217;t approve of a lawyer mindlessly asserting privilege over any document that mentions a lawyer&#8217;s name, but I DO approve of a properly-made claim that fits squarely within the concept of privilege set down in law.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m correct, you really need to stop wringing your hands about this.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9404</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9404</guid>
		<description>Greg, might I ask a favor? If you&#039;re going to reference/link Jake Tapper, can you please give a synopsis of his &quot;point&quot; or &quot;facts&quot; or &quot;context&quot; beforehand? I trust your summarization on anything JT has to say...
.
Why? Because I simply refuse to clink on any links to that smug jackass. I will not feed him more traffic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, might I ask a favor? If you&#8217;re going to reference/link Jake Tapper, can you please give a synopsis of his &#8220;point&#8221; or &#8220;facts&#8221; or &#8220;context&#8221; beforehand? I trust your summarization on anything JT has to say&#8230;<br />
.<br />
Why? Because I simply refuse to clink on any links to that smug jackass. I will not feed him more traffic.</p>
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		<title>By: Tena</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9399</link>
		<dc:creator>Tena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9399</guid>
		<description>Tell y&#039;all what - I send $10 every month to EFF and have for 3 years.  I may just quit.

This is bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell y&#8217;all what &#8211; I send $10 every month to EFF and have for 3 years.  I may just quit.</p>
<p>This is bullshit.</p>
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		<title>By: Tena</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9396</link>
		<dc:creator>Tena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9396</guid>
		<description>&quot;bama isn’t perfect and this is one area where what he is doing so far isn’t exactly inspiring confidence.&quot;

You people don&#039;t know shit about the law, obviously.  That doctrine has been used by:  Reagan, Clinton, Carter, Bush I, Bush II and now Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;bama isn’t perfect and this is one area where what he is doing so far isn’t exactly inspiring confidence.&#8221;</p>
<p>You people don&#8217;t know <acronym title="shit">****</acronym> about the law, obviously.  That doctrine has been used by:  Reagan, Clinton, Carter, Bush I, Bush II and now Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: Tena</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9395</link>
		<dc:creator>Tena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9395</guid>
		<description>JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU SEE THIS:  GREG, THIS IS NOT A &quot;TACTIC&quot;

IT IS AN ESTABLISHED LEGAL DOCTRINE, dammit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU SEE THIS:  GREG, THIS IS NOT A &#8220;TACTIC&#8221;</p>
<p>IT IS AN ESTABLISHED LEGAL DOCTRINE, dammit.</p>
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		<title>By: sgwhiteinfla</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9393</link>
		<dc:creator>sgwhiteinfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9393</guid>
		<description>Tena
.
Sorry but the concern is justified.  By any and every measure Bush severely abused the states secrets priviledge and President Obama when he was a Senator was one of his harshest critics.  The truth is if you are going to complain about something someone else is doing then you can&#039;t turn around and do the same thing without people calling you a hypocrite.  I think Glenzilla takes it too far sometimes but he has to his credit pointed out many times that invoking states secrets of and by itself is not the problem.  Its how many times you use it and the circumstances IE cases having to do with torture or illegal wiretapping. Obama isn&#039;t perfect and this is one area where what he is doing so far isn&#039;t exactly inspiring confidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tena<br />
.<br />
Sorry but the concern is justified.  By any and every measure Bush severely abused the states secrets priviledge and President Obama when he was a Senator was one of his harshest critics.  The truth is if you are going to complain about something someone else is doing then you can&#8217;t turn around and do the same thing without people calling you a hypocrite.  I think Glenzilla takes it too far sometimes but he has to his credit pointed out many times that invoking states secrets of and by itself is not the problem.  Its how many times you use it and the circumstances IE cases having to do with torture or illegal wiretapping. Obama isn&#8217;t perfect and this is one area where what he is doing so far isn&#8217;t exactly inspiring confidence.</p>
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		<title>By: AllButCertain</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9391</link>
		<dc:creator>AllButCertain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9391</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s also something called throwing the baby out with the bath water.  I assume that before the Obama administration decides to get rid of legal doctrine that was in place long before Bush, they&#039;ll assess the whole situation and all the ramifications including the impact on national security.  For the sake of argument, though, let&#039;s assume this is a nefarious as Greenwald wants to believe.  What are those all left over, embedded political appointees from the Bush years up to these days?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also something called throwing the baby out with the bath water.  I assume that before the Obama administration decides to get rid of legal doctrine that was in place long before Bush, they&#8217;ll assess the whole situation and all the ramifications including the impact on national security.  For the sake of argument, though, let&#8217;s assume this is a nefarious as Greenwald wants to believe.  What are those all left over, embedded political appointees from the Bush years up to these days?</p>
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		<title>By: CranialRectalLoopback</title>
		<link>http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/obamas-campaign-web-site-still-blasts-bush-legal-tactic-obama-is-now-using/comment-page-1/#comment-9390</link>
		<dc:creator>CranialRectalLoopback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/?p=4659#comment-9390</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t care if Obama is just, and judicious, in his use, President Romney or VP Palin won&#039;t be so just.

The solution is simple.  Act as if the law was broken (it WAS).  Prosecute the offenders, and let the convicts take it to the SCROTUMS, I mean SCOTUS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care if Obama is just, and judicious, in his use, President Romney or VP Palin won&#8217;t be so just.</p>
<p>The solution is simple.  Act as if the law was broken (it WAS).  Prosecute the offenders, and let the convicts take it to the SCROTUMS, I mean SCOTUS.</p>
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