House Dems: We Will Condemn Wilson For “Breach Of Decorum,” Not For “Speech”
The House Dem leadership has decided that it must condemn Joe Wilson for his “you lie,” outburst, and is likely to decry his “conduct” and his “breach of decorum” as early as tomorrow, rather than censure him for “speech” and turn the standoff into a war over freedom of expression, a Dem leadership aide confirms.
“The issue at hand is one of conduct, not speech,” the aide emailed me when asked to describe internal thinking. “Congressman Wilson’s outburst during the joint session was a breach of decorum and brought discredit to the House.”
Wilson apologized to White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, but he’s ruled out an apology to the full House. The aide said failure to do that will result in action because the leadership has determined that the House is compelled to act.
“It is common for members to address such breaches themselves rather than force action by the full House,” the aide said. “Failure to respond would mean consent for that kind of conduct. In the absence of an apology, the House must act to admonish his behavior. These are the standards members are held to when they take the oath of office.”
The aide confirmed that the vote would take place tomorrow at the earliest.
It’s worth pointing out that this carries political risks for both sides: Dem action could be perceived as over-reach in light of the President’s acceptance of Wilson’s apology. But Republicans, too, will be forced to make an awkward choice between supporting the measure, which could offend the base, and refusing to condemn Wilson’s outburst, fueling Dem efforts to paint the GOP as irrevocably hostile to Obama and his agenda.
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Update: The leadership aide clarifies that there are four levels of rebuke that House leaders can pursue: Expulsion, censure, reprimand, and disapproval. The aide adds that the current plan is to do a “resolution of disapproval,” which would appear to be the lowest level of condemnation.
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Quite right.
I would think that most all Republicans would approve a resolution that condemns his conduct. So long as the resolution does not call his actual words a lie then they should have no problem voting aye or abstaining as a waste of time. (Aren’t there more important matters to attend?)
@Greg; Question about censure. Isn’t a resolution condemning his conduct different than an official “censure?”
AS much as this will be pounced on by both sides as partisanship and all kinds of nasty whatever, it’s about time someone was held responsible for their behavior.
Nobody is held responsible for any damn thing anymore. I’m glad they’re doing it because it was a breach of the decorum we expect in our Congress. This isn’t Parliament.
SBJ, should Wilson be censured because of a breach of decorum? Yes or no.
A good move. And hence, the repubs will oppose it.
“SBJ, should Wilson be censured because of a breach of decorum? Yes or no.”
I think not. Personally, I would oppose it as both a waste of time and an unfair double standard. Previous cries of boo when Bush addressed both houses during a State of the union did not result in any censures. The Dems have said some really heinous things on the floor of the house that did not result in censure:
“Republicans failed Tuesday to have the House censure Rep. Pete Stark (D-Calif.), who said last week that U.S. troops are being sent to Iraq “to get their heads blown off for the president’s amusement.”
Politically I think it would make sense for a few Republicans to support it as a breach of decorum with a few Republicans abstaining.
This just in.
Should President Obama succeed in passing a health care reform bill, Dick Cheney has indicated that he will setup a chain of undisclosed locations to hide all the nation’s grannies.
I know what you are wondering, and yes, he promises that Granny Palin will be one of the first that he will secrete in one of his lairs.
Praise Jesus! There will be an answer, let it be, let it.
sbj got it right.
This is likely to be a huge mistake for Dems if Republicans show some spine and begin documenting the double standards involved. Dems will look petty, divisive, and hypocritical. And it will return attention to the question of who is lying. Since Obama’s own party immediately starting amending the bill to keep it from making a liar of Obama, that might now go so well. And it will focus attention on Obama’s peronal hypocrisy. After all, he was literally in the well accusing his opponents — including Wilson — of lying when Wilson responded.
I love Republican trolls telling US what is a mistake.
Y’all couldn’t see the train coming at you the entire last 8 years. You are still defending the worst administration ever.
WILSON SHOULD NOT BE CENSORED! If he is to censored, then the whole Assembly should be Censored. A Speech by the President to Congress should be held in silence, to protect Congressional Decorum they are supposed to just sit there and listen, not Clap anf faun over the Presidents like it was a Campaign rally. Which was exactly what conducted, being passed offr as a speech.
If Republicans say its a bad idea, then I say full steam ahead…
lol poor babies maybe wilson should have yell
“the president gets his jollies off by killing innocent folks in Pakistan with his drones”
or maybe the repugs should have all scream boo hiss
those are acceptable actions from the dems as not a one was scolded on the house/senate floor!
boohoo poor poor Dems can’t take their own medicine!
Also didn’t the president just call out folks for being liars! Another fine dem example of do as I say not as I do! boohoo
I got clarification of the resolution versus censure question. Please see update.
Seems appropriate. Ignore Republicans cries of unfair. It’s just them crying out like a kid that gets reprimanded for yelling out in class inappropriately.
If they are complaining it means it’s appropriate.
I think Wilson should set up some a/v and play the clips of the dems in action booing hissing and their nasty comments to Bush while Pelosi is scolding him!
It’s past time to use the dems own tatics against them to show them they are the wall of shame!
yippie – how old are you? You post exactly like the average 14 year old gamer.
Thanks, Greg. So is this anything like that “strongly worded” letter about the PO that the progressives sent to Obama?
“Y’all couldn’t see the train coming at you the entire last 8 years. You are still defending the worst administration ever.”
See, that is just part of your problem in dealing with reality. Conservatives like me complained a lot about George Bush for eight years and said all along that he was following a recipe for political and in some ways public policy disaster.
But he was still infinitely preferable to our current radical President, and in any event your assertion is just another in your endless litany of ad hominen and illogical attacks. So you think Bush was horrible. Democrats are still going to look like hypocritical and petty tyrants for going after Wilson, especially when their own Speaker already said it was unnecessary and it was best to move on.
For once she said something reasonable and prudent, but the attack dogs of the party just can’t let it go, even when their leader says they should.
Ask yourself this question: Is Obama going to be happy with this?
Booing and hissing can be traced back to Clinton and is one thing.
Yelling you lie during a public address at the POTUS is another thing.
It should be known he crossed the line. Next time maybe he’ll think twice before acting like the kid in the back of the room shooting spit wads to get attention.
quarterback – that being so, then explain why anyone should trust the GOP after that last 8 years?
You still won’t say.
Two Bush wars.
Bush recession.
Bush housing crisis.
Is there anything he started that he didn’t clean up and finish?
“Yelling you lie during a public address at the POTUS is another thing.”
What about saying U.S. troops are being sent to Iraq “to get their heads blown off for the president’s amusement?”
Do you really want Wilson to raise even MORE money?
o/t question: Why all the attacks on Bush today?
quarterback and sbj are the perfect example of why wingnuts suck.
They offer advice from a conservative prospective to a liberal-leaning audience, and all it amounts to is “la-la-la, y’all did it first, and besides, aren’t there more important things going on, like this crazy thing that I’m right now pulling out of my ***?” contrary to all good sense of history.
Booing a President for horrible things that his administration was doing or attempting to do, which were being documented as horrible things at the time, is not the same as shouting on national tv that the President is a liar, while lying about the underlying issue. Pete Stark didn’t stand up during the state of the union and say Bush was killing our kids for his own amusement, he said it elsewhere and it is his right to do so. There are no rule governing what congresspersons can say on their own time, but there are rule on what congressmen can say while there is a joint session underway and the President is speaking.
I get so tired of hearing about the radical President Obama. Radical how exactly? And I mean facts and not flights of fancy about government takeovers of this and that that he had no part in. A President curtailed American Civil Liberties, built huge structural and finacial deficits, ordered persons tortured to death, and started two wars that appear to be unending, and it was George Bush and not Barack Obama.
”
Thursday’s annual Census Bureau report on income, poverty and access to health care-the Bureau’s principal report card on the well-being of average Americans-closes the books on the economic record of George W. Bush.
It’s not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride.
On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush’s two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked. By contrast, the country’s condition improved on each of those measures during Bill Clinton’s two terms, often substantially.
The Census’ final report card on Bush’s record presents an intriguing backdrop to today’s economic debate. Bush built his economic strategy around tax cuts, passing large reductions both in 2001 and 2003. Congressional Republicans are insisting that a similar agenda focused on tax cuts offers better prospects of reviving the economy than President Obama’s combination of some tax cuts with heavy government spending. But the bleak economic results from Bush’s two terms, tarnish, to put it mildly, the idea that tax cuts represent an economic silver bullet.”
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/closing_the_book_on_the_bush_legacy.php
Why the attacks on Bush? Because you keep claiming the Republicans on health care reform and the GOP just had the majority and the White House and that’s all we have to go on for what the GOP can do – based on what it did.
You keep claiming we should listen to the Republicans on health care reform…
A Presidential televised joint session of Congress.
Every day debate on the floor.
Two different things. Even a caveman can see that.
Maybe next time there is a join session of Congress the President should be handed a gavel to deal with the unruliness.
@williamc: Get your facts straight. Stark made his repulsive comments in the House during debates over legislation to expand the SCHIP program.
Man the Republicans don’t want to touch their legacy, do they?
Well, who can blame them after such a miserable failure.
“Why the attacks on Bush? Because you keep claiming the Republicans on health care reform and the GOP just had the majority and the White House and that’s all we have to go on for what the GOP can do – based on what it did.”
Or maybe you could take the time to read and analyze the bills in question?
Wilson has admitted he crossed the line so he obviously knows he did!
Oh of course any disrespecttowards the opposition like booing during the state of union is okie dokie with the lunatic left!
As I have said over and over again please keep it up! You have awoken the sleeping giant and we are on to you! Ignore all you like that’s even better we know who the sore losers are and we also know it ain’t pretty when the dems don’t get their way by hook or crook! boohoo
And by the way – where are those WMDs?
And Osama bin Ladin -where he is now?
Tena, what about we hold Charlie Rangel responsible for his behavior? Or Chris Dodd, or Jack Murtha. And by the way, your crazy is showing.
Tena | September 14th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
yippie – how old are you? You post exactly like the average 14 year old gamer.
—-
I hope you are not a betting person you would lose all your hubby’s corporate cash!
I’ll try to use the MF word more so I can be like you!
How is that sweetie?
Or maybe you could take the time to read and analyze the bills in question
“On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush’s two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked. By contrast, the country’s condition improved on each of those measures during Bill Clinton’s two terms, often substantially.”
maybe you could take the time to read and analyze the GOP legacy on poverty and health care.
The one good thing that came out of Wilson’s elementary school like outburst was intelligent Americans now understand the President was not lying and a house bill had a provision that did not allow for those here illegally to sign up for this new bill being proposed.
Verification of residency is a completely different matter. I just hope the bozo’s introducing this new provision realize the hardship they will be introducing on many poor elders that might find presenting valid documentation difficult at times, depending on what valid document is required. They could be inadvertently be introducing another monetary barrier preventing some from signing up for needed coverage.
“A President curtailed American Civil Liberties, built huge structural and finacial deficits, ordered persons tortured to death, and started two wars that appear to be unending, and it was George Bush and not Barack Obama.”
I’ve seen a lot of vile lies posted by lefties here, but saying George Bush “ordered persons tortured to death” takes the cake.
William is not a serious person. He has, however, done something almost impossible as a legal matter, and that is libel a President of the United States.
Yippie – you just keep making my case for me. Thanks.
You are the epitome of GOP maturity.
“The one good thing that came out of Wilson’s elementary school like outburst was intelligent Americans now understand the President was not lying and a house bill had a provision that did not allow for those here illegally to sign up for this new bill being proposed.”
This is laughable. You ARE aware that the President has come out in support of a provision requiring proof of citizenship to purchase insurance from the exchange?
qb. Many prisoners in Iraq and Afganistan were killed in our possession. Some possibly guilty of what they were being held for, but some were not.
Laws, for the most part, are there to protect the innocent, not the guilty. If the measures by which we took periodically snared innocent individuals on the battlefield, then, at the very least, there must be limitations to protect the innocent.
The torture taking place in these prisons was OK’d from the top, Rumsfeld, Cheney and ultimately Bush.
Was Bush too stupid before he realized how far off the deep end he was dragged by Cheney and Rumsfeld before he backed off from all the craziness those two were in support of? Probably.
sbj, you’re laughable because you can’t tell the difference.
Tena,
Debating economics or economic policy with someone like you is a fool’s game, like debating drug policy with a crackhead, or debating Roswell with basement-dwelling conspiracy fanatic. I wouldn’t waste that much time. Lower taxes are good. More spending isn’t. George Bush did well when he followed those principles, not so well when he didn’t.
I don’t advocate following his “legacy.” I advocate following sound, conservative principles. That doesn’t include expanding spending and originating whole new progams of federal government activity with people like Ted Kennedy.
Btw, for you people to claim housing credit market collapse as a result of Bush policy is absolutely preposterous.
Mike,
Your response is a set of off-the-wall characterizations and fiction. Not supported by any specific facts. And ends with a silly question that just begs the question.
But, all that aside, what you originally said is that Bush “ordered persons tortured to death.” That is a very specific accusation, and nothing in your defense of that statement even remotely supports it. It is libelous. The fact that you so casually toss off such calumnies proves that, indeed, you are not a serious person. You are a hater, and nothing more.
qb, Bush never followed those principles. He right off the bat lowered taxes with no way to pay for it and started spending on both wars with no extra funding.
And QB, where was the SEC, the oversight committee who’s responsibility is the markets for all of this?
Now that the Madoff trials are taking place, the abysmal failures of the SEC Bush appointed chief and those below him are coming to light.
Bush was in charge during that time, Republicans held both House and Senate majorities during the run up to the crises. By the time the Democrats had a majority the damage was done.
Republicans failed this country and for that Americans will never forget what a disaster their ideology is.
Oops, I should have said WILLIAM’s original statement, not Mike’s. Apologies for that error.
It gets confusing when one lefty is trying to defend another’s libel.
@mike:
“Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange.
Here, the administration also concedes that hospitals would be compensated with public funds for the care of undocumented immigrants.”
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx
Posted like 17 times and it didn’t show up, wtf?
My response to sbj was:
So it’s okay that Wilson broke House rules?
@ethan: I already answered your question at:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/house-dems-we-will-censure-wilson-for-breach-of-decorum-not-for-speech/#comment-73489
It’s not okay to break rules.
Jeebus. When you break the rules, you are punished. I seriously doubt that “Democrat” or “Republican” is mentioned anywhere in there.
What these trolls are really pissed about is that they lost. and what makes it even harder to accept is that they lost to a black man.
Face it, you pack of dickheads, you had control of congress for a long time, had the oval office for eight years, had complete control for six years, and you fucked it up. Plain and simple. It must be a bitter pill for you trolls to swallow.
It’s not okay to break the rules. We just shouldn’t enforce them?
sbj- re: refunding hospitals for undocumented aliens/immigrants.
Better its taken from taxpayer dollars across the board than from the profit of the hospitals because, you can damn well bet that were that amount “too much”, they would stop offering care. What a public relations nightmare that would be for them-or maybe not.
These are, after all, people we are talking about and I’d rather pick up their bills.
Not directed at anone in particular: what is the deal with folks freaking about paying for aliens? So-called richest nation on earth and we can’t pick up the miniscule % for that?
Cheapskates.
mofarmer,
Thanks for those encouraging words. You are a true scholar and gentleman. Obama would be proud of your empathetic and civil manner.
@ChuckinDenton: The point is that the President misspoke.
And also, the President doesn’t want illegal aliens to receive public funds when participating in the exchange. He, apparently, is one of the “folks freaking about paying for aliens?”
chuck nothing is stopping you from paying for the illegals just get your check book out!
The American I grew up and live in we work hard for our families, pay our taxes, donate our money and time to charity but we draw the line at supporting the illegal aliens like you want us to!
Again the dems have millions of $$$ in their war chest to keep them in power why don’t those cheapskates use that money to help those they want to help instead of helping themselves stay in power?
talk about cheapskates
Also Chuck you do realize that you are supporting slavery by forcing me to work to support others including illegals! You can claim cheapskate all you want I say you are a Plantation Owner demanding your slaves to work for others!
it’s about time dems showed some spine. make the
repubs vote yea or nay on Wilson’s intemperate and
dead wrong outburst. a no vote is approval of his
breach of decorum.
let’s see where repubs stand on civility.
The Democratic leadership should clean up their own house before throwing stones at Wilson. Why is there no censure for Rangel’s financial revisionism? Why no censure over Murtha’s blatant earmark abuse? Why no censure for Dodd’s sweetheart mortgage deals? Oh, right, those are all ‘under investigation,’ and I expect those ‘investigations’ to conclude approximately one day before the heat death of the Universe. Or they’ll just be quietly killed when no one’s looking, like the New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case or Andrew Sullivan’s pot possession.
Is there anyone in government who’s not a crook? They should all be fired. Randomly selected juries could probably do a better job, and would certainly be more honest.
Fun to see the repug trolls here yelp even before their sorry a$$es are smacked. Typical of characteristic of bullies.
And the irony is that what the bonless dems are intending to do here is not even whoopa$$ but just a slight rap on the knuckle.
Frigging cowards both.
WHO CARES???? Let them do what they do best; waste time and money.It’s all for show and meanwhile the corruption continues. Both parties are a disgrace!!
A resolution of disapproval doesn’t go far enough. Censure is more appropriate for Joe Wislon’s *** like behavior.
A similar story, that tweet site got phished the other day. It appears no site is uncrackable.
Related Story, that tweet site got phished a few days ago. Seems that nothing is safe.