Hillary, Popular Again
The headline on the new Gallup poll is that Hillary Clinton is now more popular than Barack Obama, but that’s not all that surprising, given that Obama runs the place and is subject to relentless scrutiny and criticism.
More interesting, I think, is that Hillary’s current favorability rating of 62% is now among her highest ever, rivaled only by her popularity amid impeachment in the late 1990s.
Hillary’s swings in image and popularity over the years really are truly remarkable, as longtime Hillary-watchers know. After the Hillarycare debacle and the various “scandals” to beset the Clintons in the mid 1990s — may of which were fictions kept alive by the mainstream press — her popularity nose dived and she became a figure that stoked intensely partisan passions across the country.
The impeachment of her husband turned her into an object of national sympathy and a symbol of female perseverence in the face of a hostile, male-dominated political culture. But then, when she moved to New York to run for Senate, she had to muster incredible care and skill to defuse suspicions about her new political intentions, persuading New Yorkers to send a non-native to the upper chamber.
Once in the Senate, she skillfully managed the transition from full-time campaigner to the role of quiet, unassuming work-horse Senator. As a presidential candidate, she successfully persuaded the electorate of her toughness and strength, and even became a blue-collar heroine of sorts — an achievement that was anything but assured, given her pedigree. But the hard edge of her campaign seemed to cast her back in the role of political lightning rod, at least to her detractors among Dems.
Now she’s hugely popular again, having carved out a role as a tough-minded Secretary of State who’s also a low-profile and dutiful team player. All of which is to say that Hillary seems at her best when she’s more of a policy workhorse and in a less overtly political role — yet another argument supporting the notion that she has no intention whatsoever of running for President.
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I’m so glad. She works so hard. And I still am grooving on her in African whipping off that head set and asking the translator: They want to know WHAT?! Cause that would have been my reaction.
By the way, Greg – popular again – when was she not? I didn’t know she had ever had anything but good approval ratings.
Tena — Okay, VERY popular again.
>>>>But the hard edge of her campaign seemed to cast her back in the role of political lightening rod, at least to her detractors among Dems.
Be honest, Greg. You were one of her detractors during the campaign, and you and TPM went all-in against her. Josh Marshall (dishonorably and inaccurately, IMO) accused her campaign of racism. I’m a little suspicious of your sudden change-of-heart.
Greg – I’m not picking on you – I was just curious.
“Be honest, Greg. You were one of her detractors during the campaign, and you and TPM went all-in against her.”
O that’s not true at all. We yelled at Greg and at Erik nonstop during the campaign for being neutral.
Greg
I haven’t looked at the polling you reference (bit of a hurry again) but let me toss out an hypothesis.
We seem to be witnessing a significant shift presently in the status of women as political figures. This undoubtedly was set in motion by Clinton’s run, then Palin’s nomination as a means to get the women vote (along with the use of Fiorino and other women for the same purpose – and there’s the PUMA crowd in there too) then Bachmann’s rise and Sotomayor…
On my blog last week, I noted what I think is a telling bit of strategy from Mary Matalin. It may well be the case that the RNC strategist people have polling that suggests female political candidates are now equal or perhaps even privileged in the public mind. Perhaps particularly so where they can be portrayed as victimized by political or media “elites”… http://bernielatham.com/2009/10/05/cheney-3/
Bernie – nice point. Perceptive as hell – you’re right – we have more women in high positions than we ever had.
“given that Obama runs the place and is subject to relentless scrutiny and criticism”
You mean runs the place and is beneficiary of relentless cheerleading and hype.
And what is the evidence for HRC’s being a “tough-minded” SoS, if by that you mean something like canny and firm with foreign states?
The simplest explanation, if one is needed, for HRC’s polling higher than Obama is the obvious one: She has largely been invisible, while he has been omnipresent and officious.
Both Greg and Eric took a lot of flak at TPM for not being supportive of Obama. They were even called HRC shills many times. Oh, good ole times.
amk – word up.
It’s truly risible to think they took all the flak for nothing.
LOL!
Aaand fvcking troll is back.
Greg – I hesitate to say anything in case Comments is awake and listening, but the site has been working really well since we complained yesterday.
Yes, Tena. We gave them hard time, especially Eric’s polls analysis threads were legendary for the snarky posts.
Well, amk,
Do you have any rational rebuttal of what I said, or are you as usual just doing your illiterate George Carlin routine?
dry_fish, these commenters are right — I was called a Hillary shill probably dozens of times. some folks even tried to get me fired from TPM
Gosh, remember the days when 25% meant you were not only VERY popular but that you were also doing a great job. It’s almost like we are in bizzaro world now.
amk – when I think of how bad I was about chasing Greg down to yell about Erik and his polls and about both of their conclusions – the thought that they were Obama shills is fraking hilarious.
well qb, there is no ‘rational’ cure for stupidity. Enjoy yours.
“some folks even tried to get me fired from TPM”
That should tell you something about the character and ideology of the contemporary left swarm, or at least the Obamists.
OT – but I see Arianna is not content with digging herself to China, she had to go on CNN to make sure she would keep digging that hole.
Brother – of all the dumb damn things she’s come up with since January, blasting a Drudge-sized lede that Biden should resign for not agreeing with Obama 100% is – well, words fail me, honestly.
As I assumed, amk still = 0.
Tena – I even called Greg once as ben smith of TPM.
“That should tell you something about the character and ideology of the contemporary left swarm, or at least the Obamists.”
Just wait til we put you in the re-education camp.
amk – I vaguely remember that instance, amk.
Good times indeed. And here’s our little Greggy, burning down the internet with this blog.
I’ll have to stop calling him Little Greggy.
Greg, you’re a Hillary hater and an Obama jock-sniffer. Hillary has SUBSTANCE…not just words. She knows how to work with people of all political persuasions in order to get things done. When she called out THE ONE for what he really is, a media fiction, she and Bill were called racists. Who was right? and who are the racists?
“Just wait til we put you in the re-education camp.”
Word
“Greg, you’re a Hillary hater and an Obama jock-sniffer. Hillary has SUBSTANCE…not just words.”
I wondered where all the PUMAs went and now we know.
LOLOLOLOL!! Greg puts up one post about Hillary and they come crawling out of the cracks in the tubes.
And qb, you’re still a fvcking troll.
Yes, Tena. Greg has come now a long way. Though I still take some potshots at him at times, he is far ahead of other shrill lefty blogs.
“Republicans’ more positive views of Clinton relative to Obama mark a reversal since January, when Republican ratings of Obama (60%) were much more positive than those of Clinton (35%). Thus, Obama’s favorable rating has declined 41 points among Republicans since January, while Clinton’s has not moved at all.”
I wonder why? Odd.
Greg has always been a big Hillary fan. Heck, just like me he was rooting for her over Obama! (Just tryin’ to getcha in trouble, Greg.) The untrue charges of racism leveled against Hillary and her husband has to be one of the lowest points I’ve ever witnessed in politics.
“he is far ahead of other shrill lefty blogs.”
ABSOLUTELY 100% correct.
Teeeenaaaaa . . . Shhhhhh. Ixnay on the alktay about the ampcays until they’re eadyray!
Well, Hillary wasn’t above whining about sexism, so come on – all these accusations of people playing the race card for no reason are stupid accusations.
Hillary ran a crappy, nasty campaign, thanks to the idiots she hired to run it.
Tena, amk, you know what’s funny about that? I wrote at least a dozen posts contesting the idea that the Clintons were racists — and took a ton of heat for them, too, probably from you guys
Steve – “Shhhhhh. Ixnay on the alktay about the ampcays until they’re eadyray!”
Ooopsie!
A fvcking troll who again stated the obvious truth none of you can address.
Greg –
what can I say? LOL!
@Bernie…perhaps Kathleen Parker has been reading your blog.
Yesterday she wrote of women as the way for the Rethugs to wander back from the wilderness. Of course the four she selected make most of us on this blog apoplectic but Kathleen is a conservative and so she is entitled to her choices.
Point is you are correct Bernie…even the right has now come to realize the value of the gender that comprises slightly more than half our population.
Here is Parker’s article from yesterday…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/13/AR2009101302655.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
“I wrote at least a dozen posts contesting the idea that the Clintons were racists.”
And you won my everlasting respect for that, Greg.
Let’s dredge all of that up now and see if we can get you some more traffic!
@sbj
The charges weren’t of racism, but, rather, race-baiting. And there were also more than a few charges of sexism being hurled the other way that those of us on the otherside found at least equally worthy of umbrage.
So howzabout we join Obama and the Clintons and leave all that water under the bridge where Jesus flang it, ‘kay?
btw, Bernie, that’s fascinating. thanks for that link. lemme see if I can link it in roundup today…
“So howzabout we join Obama and the Clintons and leave all that water under the bridge where Jesus flang it, ‘kay?”
Word.
She’s a wonderful SOS – it’s like that is where she always belonged. I love Hillary – I didn’t love her as a candidate.
rukidding. If their way of realizing value is to vote against a bill that would allow women to bring up charges for being gang raped, then I think they are failing miserably.
Mr. Sargent:
“The headline on the new Gallup poll is that Hillary Clinton is now more popular than Barack Obama, but that’s not all that surprising, given that Obama runs the place and is subject to relentless scrutiny and criticism.”
Keep carrying the One’s water, Mr. Sargent.
If this hilarious expression of “Buyer’s Remorse” keeps up, then the UberFrauFuhrer won’t get the chance to be the first rat off the sinking Obama Mothership as I’ve predicted.
The O-bots will jettison her.
No President can survive for long when his SecState is perceived more favorably than he is.
Ask George H.W.Bush about THAT one, vis-vis James Baker.
“I wonder why? Odd. ”
O I don’t think you wonder at all. Not at all.
“So howzabout we join Obama and the Clintons and leave all that water under the bridge where Jesus flang it, ‘kay?”
Oh hell no! I will never forgive, I will never forget the unfair charges of “race baiting.” I think those false charges lead directly to Obama’s election.
“If this hilarious expression of “Buyer’s Remorse” keeps up, then the UberFrauFuhrer won’t get the chance to be the first rat off the sinking Obama Mothership as I’ve predicted.”
It’s not Buyer’s Remorse. If it really was, you wouldn’t be here trying to chip away at Obama’s supporters.
“” I think those false charges lead directly to Obama’s election.”
Are you telling me that you supported Hillary for president? Is that what you’re saying? Because Hillary is a long way from being a Libertarian.
“I wonder why? Odd.”
No really, I do. Repubs (and to a lesser extent independents) used to have a favorable impression of Obama, and now they don’t. Why would that be?
mike, you beat me to it. Voting against Franken’s anti-rape amendment, voting against Sonia Sotomayer… yeah, that’s the ticket to women’s vote.
“Are you telling me that you supported Hillary for president?”
If it was going to be Hillary versus McCain, then I was going to stay home. Obama versus McCain and I had to swallow my bile and vote for the old man…
As far as Hillary…I’m a former Hillary hater…or perhaps I could or should say a reformed HH.
Since I’m lurking around PUMA’s here I realize that I need to choose my words carefully
When Hillary was simply “the wife” of Bill I confess I felt she hadn’t yet earned the respect she demanded. But I give her credit. She DID work hard as a Senator and over the years I’ve come to respect not just her intellect…but also her work ethic. I also admire ANYBODY who has the capacity to change and grow. I’ve moved from a position of antipathy when she was First Lady…to one of respect of her as Senator…to one of admiration for her performance s Secretary of State. And please PUMA’s do not think I’m being condescending here and that I’m fine with a woman “who knows her place”. I’m saying she has paid more than enough dues for a male or female…and if 2016 looks like 2009 she would not only get my vote for Pres but my COMPLETE and enthusiastic support because IMHO she has EARNED it!!
And the beauty of this success would be…instead of a token claiming that LONG overdue bit of history as our first woman prez we’d have a very deserving person…regardless of gender.
sbj, the why would be because of shrinking base of repugs evolving backwards into racists, birthers and deathers ?
“No really, I do. Repubs (and to a lesser extent independents) used to have a favorable impression of Obama, and now they don’t. Why would that be?”
Have you seen Obama’s approvals?
We’re supposed to worry the Republicans’ views on Obama?
He’s president. How often does the SOS take a controversial position on something? The president is out there daily taking the heat for everything people don’t like.
Dude you’re being ridiculous. Again. You just are digging at any little tiny crack you think you can find to sheer off support for Obama. You’re totally transparent in that.
Didn’t the Repubs already try that with Palin? That didn’t work out too well. And the election’s over, deal with it.
“I had to swallow my bile and vote for the old man…”
So you think McCain-Palin would have been a better administration.
That says everything right there.
@Tena:
“How often does the SOS take a controversial position on something?”
When they hold up a vile of fake anthrax at the UN?
“We’re supposed to worry the Republicans’ views on Obama?”
Um, no. I – sbj – me personally – “I” was wondering what the dealio was. I didn’t quite understand why he had such high favorability back then, the number now makes much more sense. (I’m not comparing him to Hilalry at all – her number amongst Repubs has been consistent, as I would expect.)
“So you think McCain-Palin would have been a better administration.”
I still do. I think I already made clear that I could not stand by and do nothing while someone became President because they successfully made false charges of race baiting.
:”her number amongst Repubs has been consistent, as I would expect.)”
Exactly. She universally hated and reviled among Republicans. They’ve accused her of everything from murder to being a secret lesbian.
The Republicans just always demonstrate everything that is “best” about America.
“The Republicans just always demonstrate everything that is “best” about America.”
So when they had a 60% favorable view that meant … ?
“Tena, amk, you know what’s funny about that? I wrote at least a dozen posts contesting the idea that the Clintons were racists — and took a ton of heat for them, too, probably from you guys”
What Tena said.
Tena….you must be filling in for Liam today on the humor front…
“Just wait til we put you in the re-education camp.”
That is seriously funny. Will you let us nominate which of these posters we’d send to those FEMA camps first?
Greg, did you finally move your servers to Iceland ? Comments seem to be working well. Shocking….
“That is seriously funny. Will you let us nominate which of these posters we’d send to those FEMA camps first?”
I think there’s likely a broad consensus on that one.
What’s really horrible and not at all funny is that there really is a concentration camp in the middle of my state. It’s called Hutto, and it’s a private prison in which the US has locked up whole families – including children – of undocumented immigrants. It’s beyond disgraceful.
The ACLU in Texas sued and they are releasing the children, finally, in December.
I want the damn thing closed and dismantled, stone by bloody fraking stone.
# sbj | October 15th, 2009 at 11:38 am
“Are you telling me that you supported Hillary for president?”
If it was going to be Hillary versus McCain, then I was going to stay home. Obama versus McCain and I had to swallow my bile and vote for the old man…
……………………….
# sbj | October 15th, 2009 at 11:47 am
“So you think McCain-Palin would have been a better administration.”
I still do. I think I already made clear that I could not stand by and do nothing while someone became President because they successfully made false charges of race baiting.
…………………………
He would have not voted if Hillary had been the nominee, and that means that he did not support John McCain.
He did vote, because Obama was the nominee, so what can we conclude from that. Since he clearly was not going to vote for McCain, if Hillary was the nominee, and Palin was not enough of a persuader to get him out to vote either. Therefore he voted only because it was Obama who was the nominee.
Folks you can draw your own conclusions on why he would get his arse out to vote, only because there was a black person at the head of the Democratic ticket, but if it was an all white contest, he admits that he would not have cared enough to even bother to vote.
SBJ has just revealed is that he is Libertarin G@Y Racist!
“Therefore he voted only because it was Obama who was the nominee.”
Boo, I already figured that out a long time ago.
“I think I already made clear that I could not stand by and do nothing while someone became President because they successfully made false charges of race baiting.”
Please don’t tell my AA partner that I’m a racist!
SBJ is A Racist. and he is also into scapegoating immigrants. He is an evil scumbag, and yes; A Selfish Prick!
Thomas Jefferson also had *** with a black person, you Racist Scumbag.
Thomas Jefferson also had S*X with a black person, you Racist Scumbag.
I think people are rewarding Hillary for doing at the State Dept. exactly what she did in the Senate: she kept her head down and worked hard and seemed to get along well with her colleagues….including previous rivals.
I just have to laugh because I remember all of the hoopla when she was chosen: the popular consensus was that she and her husband were going to outshine Obama or that they would be running their own rogue foreign policy or there would be too much Clinton drama. Can I see some of those same pundits eat their words now, please?
I’ll grant that I am an evil scumbag a selfish prick, but I am not a racist. I voted for the ticket running against Obama because he would not have won without false accusations of race baiting.
Please to be calling my partner an Uncle Tom now…
To Tena,
Hillary is a smart person, and by my understanding a good lawyer. What do you think of her as a Supreme Court Justice?
“What do you think of her as a Supreme Court Justice?”
I have mixed feelings because she has not practiced law in a very long time – she’s been politics. She’s not a legal scholar, either.
I kind of have high standards for SCOTUS justices – I’m always looking for another Douglas.
“he would not have won without false accusations of race baiting”
And you KNOW this how? You may surmise it…you may assume it…but I don’t think you can honestly state that as FACT. Perhaps you should have started your statment with an “IMHO”.
SBJ admits that he would not have voted if Obama was not on the ticket. He could not have been bothered to go out and vote for either party, so for him to try and claim that he was incensed about something that happened in the Democratic primaries is an absolute crock, and just an attempt on his part to whitewash, yes whitewash his evil racist heart.
George W. Bush played the race card against John McCain, and SBJ still voted for Bush, so that give the lie to his claim about being so offended by the race dispute between Hillary and Obama. Hillary campaigned for Obama, and has gone to work for him.
SBJ did not care who became President, and he was not going to vote. He said so. But he did vote, to stop a Black Man from becoming President.
SBJ is a Racist Scumbag, and if he is having S*X with a Black Man, so what. Jefferson was a unrepentant Slave Owner, and he had s*x with a black slave woman.
Some of the most vile racistists in the history of the country loved to have affairs with black people.
Strom Thurmond fathered a black child, and continued to promote segregation, and oppression of black Americans.
It is very clear, that SBJ is a degenerate Racist Scumbag.
Bernie, two things stand out for me with regard to your blog post on Mary Matalin and her new formulation of “maligned mothers” as targets for GOP vote hustlers. The first is the role of Matalin herself. I think she’s been beyond influential as a political consultant and adviser and now in publishing. Her fingerprints are on so many things from Cheney’s influence in the White House to various forms of creative and cynical messaging for Republicans. I’d say she’s been part of the inner circle and, in spite of being so public, has still managed to operate pretty much under the radar.
The other thing is something I’ve noticed and been dismayed about in the last year plus of Palin/Bachmann. It’s a pretty dismal turn of events that the Republicans have decided to distort women’s gains and their struggle for “work/life balance” by creating what amounts to a bizarre, new stereotype of female leadership: physically attractive, youngish women who come across as airheads or unthinking ideologues on the issues, who handle motherhood as if it needs only a few spare minutes a week (relax everybody–you can do it!), and who are eager to claim they’ve been victimized because of their gender. It’s yet another area in which the Republicans have shown their deep cynicism and their pleasure in fomenting societal discord. Appalling really.
Tena, thanks. Oy, for another Douglas. My heart goes pitter-patter. Not a good thing given all the cheese round here.
sbj – You think that when Rep Lewis came out against the racial dog whistles in the Clinton campaign in SC he was wrong? There is a difference between using dog whistles to influence based on ones inherent race bias (which we all have) and out and out racism.
I have a lot of respect for Hillary Clinton. I think politicians, at that level, will do whatever they need to do to win. But to not acknowledge this bit of her campaigning is ummm what is the word I am looking for, a bit ignorant maybe of how dog whistles work?
And you are really a conundrum, I think Thomas Frank could write a book about you – a gay man, with an AA partner, who consistently supports republican policies and tactics.
sbj= Short for ‘cognitive dissonance’.
“And you KNOW this how? You may surmise it…you may assume it…but I don’t think you can honestly state that as FACT. Perhaps you should have started your statment with an “IMHO”.”
Fair enough. As supporting evidence I would point out that Hillary had good support amongst the black and latino voting blocks until the incident with Bill in south carolina(?) There was a large change right after that and the margin was enough to account for several victories.
But certainly no way of knowing for fact.
@Angela,
SBJ does not even support Republicans enough to vote in a Presidential election. He did not care who won, if it was Hillary versus McCain, so his whole opposition is to having a black President in the White House. There was very little difference between Hillary and Obama on major policy questions, and SBJ admits that he was not concerned enough to try an beat Hillary.
SBJ is just like Strom Thurmond; a vicious racist, who likes the one black person that they are having *** with.
“It is very clear, that SBJ is a degenerate Racist Scumbag.”
When did degenerate work its way into the ever-growing list?
(I did not vote for Bush against McCain.)
“You think that when Rep Lewis came out against the racial dog whistles in the Clinton campaign in SC he was wrong?”
Yes.
“And you are really a conundrum, I think Thomas Frank could write a book about you – a gay man, with an AA partner, who consistently supports republican policies and tactics.”
Thank you. i don’t think that’s accurate – I consistently support conservative policies. I consistently point out the double standard used here when comparing Republican tactics to Democratic tactics. I suppose I often approve of Republican tactics when they are used to “obstruct” liberal policies with which I disagree.
I think Frank would be more interested in my partner who is also not an Obama fan, not particularly liberal, and is also a registered Libertarian.
cog-ni-tive dis-so-nance
noun
the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, esp. as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude changes.
For example, a gay man supporting a party who singles out gay people for derision, and for legislative actions such as DOMA, DADT, etc,… Note I do not say sbj supports these actions, only he seems to support the GOP and its candidates. Who do. Hence, see above definition.
George W. Bush played the race card against John McCain, and even brought McCain’s adopted child into it.
SBJ went on to support Bush.
That destroys his claim about how he could not tolerate someone winning by playing the race card.
SBJ is a Racist Scumbag. He only voted to keep a Black Man out of the White House.
He did not care that George W. Bush had played the race card.
It can not be any clearer than that folks.
SBJ, did you vote for George W. Bush against Al. Gore, and/or did you vote for George W. Bush against John Kerry? Yes or No?
No and yes.
“For example, a gay man supporting a party … for legislative actions such as DOMA, DADT”
???
SBJ,
So, you did vote for George W. Bush. You just admitted it.
He played the race card against John McCain and John McCain’s child in the Republican Primaries. That happened long before Obama came on the scene.
So you actually voted to have George W. Bush in the White House even though he played the race card. But you claim that you could not support someone who did such a thing.
Bush is White. Obama is Black.
After Bush played the race card, it did not stop you from voting from him. That proves that you are lying about why you wanted to defeat Obama.
And, since you were not even going to bother to vote, if they were all White tickets, it fully proves that your only reason for going out to vote against Obama is because you are a virulent Racist Scumbag.
Hillary saying” hardworking white Americans, did not bother you at all. You said that you were not going to vote, if she headed the ticket.
No matter how you slice it, you are A Racist.
SBJ..since I am also Irish I understand Liam’s temper perhaps…lol..but I won’t go as far as
SBJ is a Racist Scumbag. However at minimum IMHO Liam has whipped you in this one based on the complete inconsistency of your positions.
Also you have a selective memory of the last election campaign. Admittedly an Obama supporter I’m biased…but my perception is that Obama was steamrolling Hillary until her famous crying jag. Now I don’t wish to refight that tough campaign and I do believe Hillary’s tears were genuine and not a political ploy…but REALLY…as much as I admire Hillary and would now vote for her to be prez…she did have a TREMENDOUS head start and was all but anoited the nominee at the start of the campaign by the MSM. I say this not to denigrate Hillary’s effort..she ran a strong campaign with a few exceptions…Obama ran a strong campaign..with a few exceptions…Obama won! That’s it SBJ. Obama is YOUR president unless you relocate to another country. How about a little support? Not total agreement…just something short of the endless vilification and using every excuse imaginable to tear down the current administration.
Hindsight is 20/20 as they say..and regardless of the reasons…lies about WMD…our outrage at 9/11 Bush had a couple of years of broad based bi- partisan support for Georgie and Dick’s not so excellent adventure in Iraq. And while you’re quibbling with everybody about the S.C. primary…perhaps the strongest thing that held Hillary back in the race was her support of YOUR VILLAGE IDIOT..the Crawford frat boy..in what was and still IS an totally uncalled for military adventure that accomplished NOTHING for U.S. citizens other than loss of life and treasure.
Two things: I was not aware of the primaries or what was said about McCain’s daughter by Bush. I did not think that Bush had played a race card when I voted for him over Kerry.
It now appears that Bush did not actually say anything about McCain’s daughter. Bush supporters, apparently, did, and there is much theorizing that Rove hatched the plot.
At any rate, I was unaware of the entire controversy, honestly.
“Obama won! That’s it SBJ. Obama is YOUR president unless you relocate to another country. How about a little support? Not total agreement…just something short of the endless vilification and using every excuse imaginable to tear down the current administration.”
Did you apply this standard to yourself for the previous 8 years?
“However at minimum IMHO Liam has whipped you in this one based on the complete inconsistency of your positions.”
Well thank goodness we have an unbiased arbiter now!
Please point out said inconsistencies.
sbj-Nice try to weasel out of answering clearly. You only try to deflect and avoid. Oh, I didn’t understand.
Okay then. Which party is supporting anti-gay legislation and referendums, ‘traditional marriage=1 man and 1 woman” referendums? You are a sophist with such dissembling. This “Oh, I’m a Libertarian. But I only vote for Republicans. I only link to right-wing websites. What childishness. You vote, by your own admission, for a party which hates you as a gay person. Which tries to legalize discrimination against you. Which calls your sexuality a ‘choice’ when it isn’t calling you a sinning abomination. You should be ashamed of yourself.
SBJ,
You were aware of Hillary saying: hard working White Americans, and yet you said that you were not going to go out and vote to stop her from winning.
Enough with all your lame attempts at trying to avoid facing up to what you are.
Bush played the race card, and Hillary played the race card. You say Obama played the race card, and that was the only reason that you cast a vote on election day.
Two White Politicians played the race card, and you felt no need to vote, to stop them from winning.
That makes you A Racist.
“So you actually voted to have George W. Bush in the White House even though he played the race card.”
I did not know that he had played the race card. He never actually did make any such statement.
“Bush is White. Obama is Black.”
At least to some extent.
“After Bush played the race card, it did not stop you from voting [for] him. That proves that you are lying about why you wanted to defeat Obama.”
Why no, not it doesn’t.
“And, since you were not even going to bother to vote, if they were all White tickets, it fully proves that your only reason for going out to vote against Obama is because you are a virulent Racist Scumbag.”
Again, no. I was not going to vote because I had two bad choices.
“Hillary saying” hardworking white Americans, did not bother you at all.”
Correct, it did not.
“If there were ever words that Hillary Clinton should take back it’s her retort that hard working whites backed her in the primaries. The implication was that whites are the only ones who work hard. She obviously didn’t mean that. Her awkwardly put point was simply that Obama has not cracked the resistance to him of blue collar, rural, and non-college educated, lower income whites.”
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/hillary-said-it-wrong-but_b_101119.html
“Which party is supporting anti-gay legislation and referendums, ‘traditional marriage=1 man and 1 woman” referendums?”
I do not support the Republican party – I voted for Bush, once.
Obama is the one who supports “traditional marriage=1 man and 1 woman!”
“You are a sophist with such dissembling. This “Oh, I’m a Libertarian. But I only vote for Republicans.”
Dude, you are making that up. Simply not true.
“I only link to right-wing websites.”
Another lie.
“You vote, by your own admission, for a party which hates you as a gay person.”
It’s not true at all to say the G Bush II hated gay people. I do not support much of the republican platform regarding gay rights. You’ll recall that McCain and Obama had virtually the same position regarding gay marriage when they went to see that doofus Warren.
OK Folks.
He admits that Hillary saying: hard working “white” Americans did not bother him at all.
SBJ has just entered a guilty plea to being A Racist.
Case Closed.
@Liam: Did you read the HuffPo link? Are you calling
Earl Ofari Hutchinson “A Racist?”
No need to address your comments to “folks” – this is just me and you. You’re calling me a racist and I won’t back down. Don’t worry about being witty or appealing to like-minded folks here, this is all about just two people. I hope that no one else is bothering to read this childish drivel.
You have no right to call me a racist, and you have no knowledge as to whether I am. You are trying to draw conclusions based on a few simple comments, a single vote, and my opinion about a comment that Hillary made. One that many other people disagree was racist. It is surely wrong, on your part, to draw such a conclusion from such limited data. It does all of us here a disservice. It makes you look like a fool.
Stop thinking about what other people here think, stop trying to score cheap points, and think for one minute, instead, about how it feels to be called a racist. Choose your words carefully, my friend.
Ha Ha Ha.
The Racist seeks to get the spotlight off of him.
SBJ and The Night Riders.
Klansman: Grand Wizard, you know that SBJ is a homosexual; do you want us to lynch him too?
Grand Wizard: Ah hell, SBJ hates them colored folks just as much as we do.
Let him help us with the lynching, and after that is over, then ya’ll can lynch him last!
You have no idea how deeply offensive that is?
I want to offend Racist Scumbags who try to pass as being anti racism, and try to paint a black person as a racist, while pretending to not being aware of how Racist the Bush v McCain campaign was, and who is not bothered by Hillary going into places like West Virginia and openly playing both the hard working, and White, racist cards. She was saying that non whites are not hard working, and that does not bother racist scum.
Liam- I don’t think sbj even realizes just how much he lives in the land of denial. The cognitive dissonance and projection of these righties is just pathetic. And the sophistry they use to try to avoid any facts which differ with their fantasy world.
‘I don’t support the GOP. I just voted once for Bush. Obama says the same as McCain on this one issue, so I’m really a Libertarian, see. But I never link to liberal sites, and always jump in to support the GOP. Never mind the facts of an issue, just look over here at this quote from Free Republic.’ (que up the denial of any link to FR from a sophist).
Some of them, like Rushbo’s QB, are just dumb.
sbj should be ashamed of himself. He knows the truth is the GOP hates him because he’s gay, but he won’t admit it. He keeps coming back to defend them like a whipped dog.
For shame.
I think jokes about lynching blacks and gay people probably offend a lot more than just myself. I’ve already explained the Bush McCain thing – you don’t believe me. I’ve already pointed out and proved that other people don’t think Hillary’s remark was racist. I’m not sure what more I can do with you. I will urge you, now, to stop libeling me.
Liam – I hear that case is closed for you. It’s not that clear to me. sbj drives me nuts with his inconsistencies, and I think there is vast confusion as to what is race baiting or such, but I am not clear to state he is A Racist. Yeah, I can not put him in the same circle of hate as a Rush Limbaugh or a Klan member. Maybe that is my own inconsistencies but there you have it.
He only gets racially offended by Black People! That is his defense.
I have more respect for White Supremest scum, who admit that they hate non-whites, than I do for the type of Racist Scum who try to camouflage their hatred of Black People.
“He only gets racially offended by Black People! That is his defense.”
Hey! Did you forget all of my racist remarks regarding latinos?
Thank you, Angela.
SBJ,
Remind me, what racial remarks by Latinos have offended you?
Oh, the list is endless…
He was not offended by what The Bush Campaign said about John McCain’s Child.
He was not offended by Hillary going into West Virginia, and playing the Hard Working White Americans,(As opposed to those lazy non-white Americans)
But he was so highly offended by The Obama campaign responding to what Bill Clinton started, that by God that was the only thing could get him off his lazy arse, and get hit out to vote. He just had to stop that Obama from getting away with that.
He could not be bothered to stop Bush or Hillary from playing race cards.
Yes indeed. Poor misunderstood SBJ. He is the soul of tolerance. He never takes offense when White Presidential seekers play race cards. How much more tolerant can SBJ be, than that!
“How much more tolerant can SBJ be, than that!”
Not much!
“He was not offended by what The Bush Campaign said about John McCain’s Child.”
Nope. (Didn’t know they had said anything.)
“He was not offended by Hillary going into West Virginia, and playing the Hard Working White Americans.”
Nope. Poor choice of words, non-rwcist meaning quite clear.
“But he was so highly offended by The Obama campaign.. that was the only thing could get him …out to vote.”
Yup.
“He just had to stop that Obama from getting away with that.”
I tried!
mmm mmm mmm
Just wow.
Word.
I accept your confession.
I confess nothing. I’d like you to apologize for libeling me.
You called me a racist.
I am not.
You said I voted for Bush knowing he had played the race card.
I did not.
You said I support Hilary knowing that she race-baited.
I do not agree she race baited.
Wrong on all counts. Retract and apologize.
I am sorry that you are A Racist who is still trying to hide the fact that you are.
Hillary apologized for having said those words. At least she admitted that it was playing the race card, so you are left with no defense on that one.
She said it was wrong, so you saying that you still think it was OK to say in West Virginia during a political campaign shows once more that you are A Racist.
Now you are just getting stupid – do you think Hillary is a racist? If not, why is it a problem for me to have supported her campaign? It was a poor choice of words – it wasn’t race baiting.
“She admitted that it was playing the race card.”
Really?
SBJ
You know that you are A Racist. That is source of all your hatred toward President Obama.
You admit that you did not even play close attention to What the Bush Campaign was saying about John McCain’s daughter, so you are not one who is a political junkie who stays on top of everything that is said.
Except in one particular situation, in a Democratic primary campaign. You are so detached from politics that you were going to sit out the last election, not even vote. That is what you said, but you were so aroused by something someone said, from the Obama campaign, in response to what Bill Clinton had said, that it has forever changed you. From that day forward, you took a vow not to let that Black candidate get away with something or other, and to pay little or no attention to what White candidates are saying, when it comes to playing race cards.
That is your defense, and your entire defense. Good luck to you with that.
You just keep getting so much wrong, and making so many brain dead assumptions, that i am finding this very entertaining.
“You know that you are A Racist.”
No I am not.
“That is source of all your hatred toward President Obama.”
I don’t hate Obama.
“You admit that you did not even play close attention to What the Bush Campaign was saying about John McCain’s daughter.”
Right.
“So you are not one who is a political junkie who stays on top of everything that is said.”
Wrong. I took very little interest in this particular primary campaign because I didn’t much like either candidate, and I figured Gore was a shoe-in at any rate.
“Except in one particular situation, in a Democratic primary campaign.”
Not true.
And it may have escaped your attention but this was the most watched primary in the history of the world?
“You are so detached from politics that you were going to sit out the last election, not even vote.”
Not because I was detached fro politics, but because I did not weant to have to choose between two bad choices – Hillary and McCain.
“You were so aroused”
Ooh!
“By something someone said, from the Obama campaign…that it has forever changed you.”
Um, no.
“From that day forward, you took a vow not to let that Black candidate get away with something or other.”
No, I “vowed” to vote for whoever ran against him because I thought it was important to send my own little message that race baiting to the presidency should not be condoned, as you ahve done.
“To pay little or no attention to what White candidates are saying, when it comes to playing race cards.”
No, I heard what Hillary said (if that’s what you are talking about), and I did not consider it race baiting.
“That is your defense, and your entire defense.”
What am I defending myself from?
“Good luck to you with that.”
Luck has nothing to do with it.
OK,
I accept the fact you embrace your hatred of President Obama because of his race and skin color.
SBJ
Congratulations. For once you got off of your ignorant lazy arse, and actually voted. Now live with the election results, you pathetic hate monger.
You admit that you did not even play close attention to What the Bush Campaign was saying about John McCain’s daughter, so you are not one who is a political junkie who stays on top of everything that is said.
Except in one particular situation, in a Democratic primary campaign. You are so detached from politics that you were going to sit out the last election, not even vote. That is what you said, but you were so aroused by something someone said, from the Obama campaign, in response to what Bill Clinton had said, that it has forever changed you. From that day forward, you took a vow not to let that Black candidate get away with something or other, and to pay little or no attention to what White candidates are saying, when it comes to playing race cards.
That is your defense, and your entire defense. Good luck to you with that.
And now for something completely different, a favorite trick of Liam’s I have recently discovered called – cut and paste:
#
“You admit that you did not even play close attention to What the Bush Campaign was saying about John McCain’s daughter.”
Right.
“So you are not one who is a political junkie who stays on top of everything that is said.”
Wrong. I took very little interest in this particular primary campaign because I didn’t much like either candidate, and I figured Gore was a shoe-in at any rate.
“Except in one particular situation, in a Democratic primary campaign.”
Not true.
And it may have escaped your attention but this was the most watched primary in the history of the world?
“You are so detached from politics that you were going to sit out the last election, not even vote.”
Not because I was detached fro politics, but because I did not weant to have to choose between two bad choices – Hillary and McCain.
“You were so aroused”
Ooh!
“By something someone said, from the Obama campaign…that it has forever changed you.”
Um, no.
“From that day forward, you took a vow not to let that Black candidate get away with something or other.”
No, I “vowed” to vote for whoever ran against him because I thought it was important to send my own little message that race baiting to the presidency should not be condoned, as you ahve done.
“To pay little or no attention to what White candidates are saying, when it comes to playing race cards.”
No, I heard what Hillary said (if that’s what you are talking about), and I did not consider it race baiting.
“That is your defense, and your entire defense.”
What am I defending myself from?
“Good luck to you with that.”
Luck has nothing to do with it.
mmm mmm mmm.
Ok, so you admit that you are just an uninformed non voting person, who only went out to vote to stop a black man from becoming President.
Now you can go back to just being your old ignorant, detached, non-voting self.
Carry one.
Ok, so you admit that you are just an uninformed non voting person, who only went out to vote to stop a black man from becoming President.
Now you can go back to just being your old ignorant, detached, non-voting self.
Carry on.
“Ok, so you admit that you are just an uninformed”
No
“Non voting person”
No
“Who only went out to vote to stop a black man from becoming President.”
No
C’mon, Liam! You’re not even trying anymore.
You’re not gonna call me a racist prick or post another KKK lynching “joke?”
C’mon, dude. I can’t wait for the hilarity to begin!
(BTW – you don’t need to repost your entire “comment” to correct one word. I can figure it out.)
Well, SBJ,
You can make that repost transgression of mine your prime motivation to vote against Obama in 2012. That excuse will be just as valid a cover for your racism, as the pathetic cover you tried to sell us this time.
If the Obama presidency doesn’t go well, and if some other candidate deserves it more, then you can bet that I’ll be voting for someone else. You are not a motivator, liam – if anything, just the opposite.
I didn’t try to sell anyone here anything, and I’m not writing to the collective readers of this blog. I am writing to you, Liam – “This time it’s personal.” Don’t kid yourself into thinking that anyone else here even cares about our childish little quibble. I am only concerned with you and your lying and gross, vulgar, offensive behavior.
I am not a racist and I expect you to retract that libel and apologize.
When you stop being a racist, then I will accept that you have stopped being a racist.
All you did today, was reveal that you were, and still are a racist.
I know that you will vote against Obama in 2012. He will still be black then, so that will be all the motivation you will need to vote for a second time in a row. In 2016 and on, you will be able to go back to your old pattern of not paying attention to the campaigns, and of of just staying home, sitting on your lazy arse on election days.
“When you stop being a racist, then I will accept that you have stopped being a racist.”
Hold on a sec … wait for it … (takes a lot of effort) … There! I stopped being a racist!
“All you did today, was reveal that you were, and still are a racist.”
Naw – just frustrated the hell out of you.
“I know that you will vote against Obama in 2012.”
The amazing, all knowing, all seeing, Liam! He must be seen to be believed! Read his amazing pronunications on The Plum Line!
“He will still be black then”
Ya think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB7tClTaQbg
and SBJ will still be A Racist then. He will hear that someone said something in the Obama team, in response to someone else’s remarks, and SBJ will get all worked up, and go out and vote, to protect all White Americans from Black Racism.
That is how SBJ rolls, and he is proud of it.
“To protect all White Americans from Black Racism.
That is how SBJ rolls, and he is proud of it.”
Please see the following short clip of sbj, fighting for truth, justice, and the American way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kLUzPSvltY