Flashback: Wilson Shouted At Dem Opponent, Ranted About His “Hatred Of America” — On Live TV!
GOP Rep. Joe Wilson’s scream of “you lie” at the president yesterday turned him into an instant national celebrity for some and a useful symbol of Republican hostility and intransigence for others.
But it turns out it’s not the first time he’s gotten, shall we say, a bit carried away.
In September of 2002, The Washington Post reported that Wilson flipped out during a debate on C-SPAN with Dem Rep. Bob Filner of California, shouting at him and ranting about his “hatred of America.” From Nexis:
Filner, who opposes unilateral U.S. military action, suggested that in the 1980s, when U.S. officials sided with Iraq in its war against Iran, Saddam Hussein obtained biological and chemical weapons technology from the United States. “We gave it to him,” Filner asserted.
“That is wrong. That’s made up,” Wilson fired back. “I can’t believe you would say something like that.”
When Filner calmly held his ground, advising Wilson to read newspaper reports and other documentation, the Republican erupted: “This hatred of America by some people is just outrageous. And you need to get over that.”
As moderator Connie Brod sat by helplessly, Filner challenged: “Hatred of America? … Are you accusing me?”
“Yes!” Wilson shouted. For good measure, over the next minute Wilson accused Filner of harboring “hatred of America” four more times, of being “hateful” three times and of being “viscerally anti-American” once.
Gives new meaning to the idea that the Senate is the saucer that cools the House’s hot tea.
Seriously, Dem strategists think Wilson has committed a gaffe rivaling Senator Jim DeMint’s “Waterloo” crack, one that will allow Dems to portray the GOP opposition as obstinate, angry and irrevocally hostile towards Obama and his agenda. More on this to come today.
(H/T Institute of Southern Studies)
**********************************************
Update: Another! TPM’s Justin Elliott unearths a third example of Wilson losing his cool.
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He’s a piece of work. Now I’m convinced he planned that outburst. They all had copies of the speech in advance.
He also accused Strom Thurmond’s daughter of lying about being his daughter.
“Dem strategists think Wilson has committed a gaffe rivaling Senator Jim DeMint’s “Waterloo” crack, one that will allow Dems to portray the GOP opposition as obstinate, angry and irrevocably hostile towards Obama and his agenda.”
Good luck with that. I think it will draw attention to the facts surrounding the treatment of aliens in the various bills.
“The bill contains no verification requirement or enforcement process for citizenship or legal residency, as exists for other federal benefit programs. The only verification required for the subsidies pertains to family income. Beyond that, as the CRS report notes, everything is left in the hands of the Health Choices Commissioner.
“House Democrats defeated all attempts in committee to add an enforcement mechanism that would require proof of citizenship or legal residency for those getting subsidies.”
““House Democrats defeated all attempts in committee to add an enforcement mechanism that would require proof of citizenship or legal residency for those getting subsidies.””
Horrors! Little Brown People might actually sneak in some health care once in a blue moon – wow, I’m destroyed by this information.
And for god’s sake, we don’t want the slave labor picking our tomatoes to be free from tuberculosis or anything.
It would appear that Congressman Joe Wilson was just acting much like he always does. Congressman James Clyburn said that Joe Wilson is always very confrontational. He said that Wilson held an anti health care reform townhall meeting, in James Clyburn’s district, and just three blocks from Congressman Clyburn’s home.
Wilson was not in his own district, he was in James Clyburn’s, so clearly Wilson is just a complete tool.
Wow! Are all non-citizens “brown?”
Obama says that to lower costs you need to cover all of those who take advantage of emergency services and the like but do not pay. So if we don’t cover those persons we can’t control h/c costs – that’s per Obama. If we do cover them under this plan then Obama is lying.
Our Resident Log Cabin Republican objects to the Republicans playing the “Christian Family Values” card because that excludes him from their circle, but he has no problem scapegoating Immigrants, for the same Republicans who treat him, and his partner like dirt.
Typical selfish Republican Uncle Tom.
He disrespected the institution and he was lying his d@mn self. They should demand that he resign his seat.
“And for god’s sake, we don’t want the slave labor picking our tomatoes to be free from tuberculosis or anything.”
@Tena: Two things:
You have a very stereotypical (and inaccurate) view of our undocumented population.
You are in disagreement with the President.
Wilson represents all the worst in our representative democracy! He should have the decency to resign his elected position and get his gun, because it is he who hates our nation and its government. Wilson has absolutely no human or common sense! -Kevo
Post-modern liberalism is deeply anti-American. How is this a surprise?
The President stood in the well of the H of R and gave a divisively partisan speech, patently lied about health reform, and accused opponents of lying. So a rep shouted back likewise, while the rest of the house was also vocally repond.
Bravo, I say. You would all be saying the same thing about a Dem who shouted at George Bush, and you know it. Pelosi and others called him a liar plenty of times.
“You have a very stereotypical (and inaccurate) view of our undocumented population.
You are in disagreement with the President.:
Really? I have a stereotypical view of our undocumented workers? You are ignorant of the real situation. Do you have any idea what the large corporations like Dole do to their undocumented workers? Do have any idea how many times the state has been sued over it?
You’re naive as hell and your disingenuous “Just Wow” **** is just that – ****.
And who says I have to agree with the president 100% of the time?
Obama repeatedly and indisputably lied about the reform plan. So apparently he needs to resign.
state of Florida – sorry, left that out.
@sbj: you’re implying that these immigrants do not pay their bills. That seems like an oversimplification at best.
My most recent employment was at a rural hospital in northern GA which has seen a major influx of hispanics/immigrants to the area to work in the chicken plants. I got into a conversation with a VP of the hospital one day about how the hospital was dealing with this and he was noting that they were really in desperate need of bilingual employees to deal with it…the reason why was most interesting: they WANTED more of these patients. Why? Because the majority don’t have insurance and they pay their bills in far higher proportion than the typical patient…and bonus for the hospital…they usually pay in cash.
SBJ, you say Tena is disagreeing with the President, and you also say he’s lying.
I also don’t see building a fence anywhere but on the Mexico border.
I’ve asked before and I’ll ask again: Who hires the illegals? Who feeds the beast? Betcha it’s tons and tons of Democrats.
And SBJ, where do your forebears come from? Pretty lucky they got in when the gettin’ was good, huh?
Wilson’s behavior was disrespectful. He apologized as he should have. But drawing further attention to his shout makes the issue about the treatment of non-citizens in HR3200. The Congressional Research service has analyzed this aspect of the bill:
http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/noncitizens.pdf
Non-citizens might indeed garner credits because the bill does not contain an enforcement mechanism. There will be an increased number of non-citizens eligible for emergency Medicaid.
Congrats Greg. You have taken the usual repug bait of distraction and now this kreep will be elevated to a star level by the frigging media and the blogs, completely sidelining the HC speech and debate.
Now we have the hate mongering loons saying “bravo” to Joe Wilson.
Reality Check.
Joe Wilson was denounced by his own party, and called the White House to apologize.
So, that exposes the “bravo” crowd for the imbeciles that they truly are.
“So, that exposes the “bravo” crowd for the imbeciles that they truly are.”
So what else is new?
@Kathleen: “You say Tena is disagreeing with the President, and you also say he’s lying.”
The President does not feel that non-citizens should be covered under the h/c reform bill. Tena is hoping that they will be covered.
@Cat person: The President himself has said that those who do not have insurance are raising the costs of h/c for all of us. Your dispute is with him, not me.
No bill has been passed yet, so for our Resident Log Cabin Republican to claim that the bill does not forbid undocumented workers from getting health care coverage is totally specious.
Joe Wilson lied, because no bill has been passed, and our Resident Log Cabin Republican is also lying. Proposals are not bills.
Now, back to the Republican Family Values agenda. Time for all you gay Republicans to hide out of sight in your log cabins.
“Tena is hoping that they will be covered. ”
So?
I do wish those people who come here looking for something better – just like your ancestors and mine did – we’re all immigrants.
But I also understand why we can’t do that for everyone – but the thought of some “sneaking in” and getting health care DOES NOT UPSET ME.
I didn’t finish a sentence – I wish those people could have health coverage. We are all immigrants, essentially.
Let us ask the Christian Family Values pushers;
WWJD. What would Jesus do, if he came across a sick, gay, undocumented immigrant?
“The president’s insistence that his party’s version of health-care reform will not provide coverage to illegal immigrants is, at best, disingenuous. The House health-care bill says that they are ineligible to receive tax credits to buy insurance. But the bills do not require that the legal status of beneficiaries be verified, and in committee deliberations most Democrats have voted against amendments to add that requirement. If the president does not know these facts, surely people around him do.
“Maybe there is an argument for providing health coverage to illegal immigrants, but the Democrats are not making it openly…
“in some cases, notably those of immigration, abortion, Medicare, and the loss of private coverage, Obama has been misleading in a way that is hard to credit as innocent. On these issues, the liberal accusation that conservatives are lying seems pretty close to a lie itself — perhaps a case of projection.”
http://nrd.nationalreview.com/article/?q=NGU1YjYxODU3NTgyYTNkN2E5OGY0M2QwN2ZiYTIyYzk=
““in some cases, notably those of immigration, abortion, Medicare, and the loss of private coverage, Obama has been misleading in a way that is hard to credit as innocent. On these issues, the liberal accusation that conservatives are lying seems pretty close to a lie itself — perhaps a case of projection.””
That just a pack of outright lies.
Again:
Let us ask the Christian Family Values pushers;
WWJD. What would Jesus do, if he came across a sick, gay, undocumented immigrant?
Would he opt to leave uncared for?
@tena: So read the article, and tell us what the lies are.
Huffpo headline about Joe Wilson.
“A Muzzle For Old Yeller”
Looks like Bush/Cheney have indeed truly planted Christian Family Values Seeds in Iraq:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/09/09/iraqs_new_surge_gay_killings
Excerpt:
“As the world hails Iraq’s supposed return to normality, the country’s militias — the same ones that spent years waging a sectarian civil war — have found a new, less apparent target: men suspected of being gay. The systematic killings, which began earlier this year, reveal the cracks behind Iraq’s fragile calm. Iraq’s leaders may talk of security and democracy from behind barbed wire in the Green Zone, but the surge of murders against gay men is a stark sign of how far Iraqi society still has to go.”
@sbj: nice try. You said that it was “non-citizens” who were going to emergency rooms and NOT PAYING THEIR BILLS. My issue is with you and your stereotypes about immigrants.
My fault for thinking that you might try some intellectual honesty for once.
“Joe Wilson lied, because no bill has been passed, and our Resident Log Cabin Republican is also lying. Proposals are not bills.”
So then Obama lied as well when he purported to say what refrom does and doesn’t do. Since there is no law passed, Obama is a liar. That how it works, Liam?
“Joe Wilson was denounced by his own party, and called the White House to apologize.”
And he shouldn’t have been pressured, but Republicans failing to stand up for themselves is nothing new. When Obama is denounced by his party and apologizes for lying and calling his opponents liars — in the well of the House, no less — then I’ll start entertaining this garbagae about Wilson’s being disrespectful.
Obama shows no respect to anyone, and he disgraced the office — again.
sbj – so, go jump in the lake.
A woman I used to work with had an ex-husband in Arizona. They had a daughter, they were on good terms. When she needed some projects done on her house, he suggested that he fly a few illegal aliens up to do the work, it would be less than hiring bonded Maine contractors.
What do you suppose that Arizonans politics were?
A Republican, of course, who breaks the rules when it suits his greed.
“Again:
Let us ask the Christian Family Values pushers;
WWJD. What would Jesus do, if he came across a sick, gay, undocumented immigrant?
Would he opt to leave uncared for?”
Charity isn’t socialism, Liam. Sorry you are unable to comprehend such a basic distinction. If you want to charge hypocrisy, try to have some idea what you are talking about and not adopt a ludicrously false premise.
One day, SBJ will link me to non-republican garbage to support his non-republican talking points.
The bill doesn’t support illegal immigrants. And the amendments the republicans put into the bill were so onerous that ACTUAL citizens would be denied care they would be entitled too. You should be complaining about the republicans inability to write legislation that doesn’t treat illegals and poor Americans as the same thing. If some illegals gaming the system are getting care so more Americans can, so be it.
Give us your tired, your poor. We won’t care for them or anything and hey, they can make us a few bucks while we’re at it. The xenophobia is strong in this one…
“the liberal accusation that conservatives are lying seems pretty close to a lie itself — perhaps a case of projection.”
Your source is the National Review? Get lost, troll.
What would Jesus do, if he came across a sick, gay, undocumented immigrant?
hmm, jesus tells us to heal the sick but hate teh gay and the ones that aren’t properly accounted for by his BFF caesar. good thing he hasn’t come back yet, or he’d never figure that one out. it’s like one of those zen koans. except with a true religion.
If people getting treated in emergency rooms is the problem, then why did the Republicans never pass any reform legislation to solve the problem, when they had the past eight years to do so?
They are just scapegoating those who have been denied coverage, and have to go to the emergency rooms, and they are shamefully conflating immigrations issues, with the emergency room issue, to try and persuade people, that the only problem with the current health care costs, is all the fault of undocumented sick people.
It is really disgusting to see a gay man, who is treated as vile sinner, and outcast by his party, turning around and profiling immigrants in the same disgusting manner.
Also, if you gave some of these immigrants a decent wage, they’d likely be more capable of paying for this care they supposedly ’steal’ and don’t pay for.
@cat person: I wrote, “Obama says that to lower costs you need to cover all of those who take advantage of emergency services and the like but do not pay. So if we don’t cover those persons we can’t control h/c costs – that’s per Obama. If we do cover them under this plan then Obama is lying.”
Patches said:
“One day, SBJ will link me to non-republican garbage to support his non-republican talking points.”
That’s hilarious. You people link goofball opinions from HuffnPuff and the clown Josh Marshall as your authorities but denounce sourced and factually supported NR links as having no credibility. Too funny.
“A Republican, of course, who breaks the rules when it suits his greed.”
Dole has been sued in Florida 4 times for essentially having slave labor pick fruit and vegetables. They house them in substandard living conditions and “pay them” with vouchers that are only good in the company store.
Shades of the days of the miners in the West who treated like that, rebelled, and were massacred in southern Colorado. There’s a memorial on the highway between Trinidad, Co. and the San Luis Valley.
@Quarterback,
I posed the question to self proclaimed, Christian Family Values people, which excludes you, so stop wasting your time trying to get me to not put those people on the spot.
Joe Wilson apologized, and yet you came on here and said “bravo” to him, so we know what sort of hate mongering imbecile you are.
“A Republican, of course, who breaks the rules when it suits his greed.”
I can line up all sorts of tax evaders (just look at the Obama admin and Rangel), union busters, sexual harassers, molesters, welfare cheats, drug dealers, murderers, etc., who are Democrats.
That would prove what to you?
Apparently,
The have no answer for this:
So I will keep asking it:
If people getting treated in emergency rooms is the problem, then why did the Republicans never pass any reform legislation to solve the problem, when they had the past eight years to do so?
They are just scapegoating those who have been denied coverage, and have to go to the emergency rooms, and they are shamefully conflating immigrations issues, with the emergency room issue, to try and persuade people, that the only problem with the current health care costs, is all the fault of undocumented sick people.
It is really disgusting to see a gay man, who is treated as vile sinner, and outcast by his party, turning around and profiling immigrants in the same disgusting manner.
@ patches (cute!): “One day, SBJ will link me to non-republican garbage to support his non-republican talking points.”
Apparently you did not see the link to the Congressional Research service analysis?
“sourced and factually supported NR” – LMAO. An oxymoron, if one.
“I posed the question to self proclaimed, Christian Family Values people, which excludes you, so stop wasting your time trying to get me to not put those people on the spot.”
Yet again, I refuted your illogical point, and you can’t do more than attack me.
“Joe Wilson apologized, and yet you came on here and said “bravo” to him, so we know what sort of hate mongering imbecile you are.”
Like you haven’t called me that before. For an imbecile, I have a pretty good record of making you look like a fool.
When you denounce Obama for disrespecting his office and the HR — not to mention the country — you’ll have some room to talk. In fact, none of you liberal haters should ever, ever be heard to complain about disrespect of a President. And you know why.
Obama isn’t a king, not yet anyway. He lied and was called out for it, after calling his opponents liars from the well of the House. He richly deserved it.
I can’t speak for anyone by myself, but I’m asking myself more and more every day why I’m still registered as a Republican. I have been, since 1989. But this year, unlike the past 20 before it, it’s become almost humiliating to belong to the GOP. Somehow we went from politicians like Barry Goldwater to this clown from SC in less than a generation. Some of my long-term GOP friends now accuse me of “intellectual elitism”, and I’m taken aback. That was the point of my joining in the first place, two decades ago; the GOP WAS the party of business, critical thinking, and intellectual discourse. We WERE the smartest guys in the room.
Now…
We’re about one more silly stunt away from looking like pathetic fools who can’t come up with anything more meaningful than “you hate America!” or similar tantrums whenever confronted or challenged. The American people may distrust government, but everyone HATES a crybaby.
The cognitive dissonance on this board is really quite astounding. That the same people who regularly demean their political opponents as Repugs, Repigs, selfish Uncle Toms, trolls, imbeciles, etc can be so scandalized by a member of congress shouting (accurately, no less) “You lie” is highly amusing. A psychiatrist could have a field day here.
Here is the astonishing thing;
The Insurance Companies skim off around thirty percent of all dollars that they collect, and that huge amount is not spent on any medical care. Not one dollar of it, but to listen to our resident Log Cabin Republican, the far smaller costs run up by undocumented workers, is the real problem.
How is that for a big fat red herring.
The Private Insurance Cabal Keeps about Five Percent Of our GDP each year, without one cent of that money being used to treat anyone, and Log Cabin creep wants us to focus on the occasional emergency room treatment.
What a worthless, self loathing, hate mongering tool he is.
Family Values Chrisians wear WWJD braclets.
So I ask them, what would he do about providing medical care for the poor?
Still no answer, just one idiot, who thinks telling me to stop putting those WWJD people on the spot, is a refutation of my question.
But scott, this is a blog where we lowly bloggers, love (and take pride) to call repugs all sortsa names, which they richly deserve. OTOH, your boy tried to pull a townhaller in the congress and got whacked for it by your own party and so he had to crawl and lick some shoes.
Nice strawman try but big fail.
Here is another Christian Values question:
American Roman Catholic Bishops are against abortions, and against the death penalty, so why is it, that they will refuse communion to those elected officials who support a woman’s right to choose, which has been ruled as constitutional by the Supreme Court, but they never refuse communion to those who support the Death Penalty?
“Still no answer, just one idiot, who thinks telling me to stop putting those WWJD people on the spot, is a refutation of my question.”
LOL No, just one “idiot” who keeps exposing the idiocy of your absurd “challenge.”
By pointing out that these “WWJD people” you keep wanting to argue with, if they followed what Jesus did and taught, who (1) supernaturally heal the sick, or (2) extend charity by helping them.
What Jesus wouldn’t do is instead lobby to have a government program help the poor with other people’s money. That is the hypocritical/liberal way out. And that is what you would do.
ncrepub:
We’re about one more silly stunt away from looking like pathetic fools who can’t come up with anything more meaningful than “you hate America!” or similar tantrums whenever confronted or challenged.
If you are looking for more than vitriol from people faced with challenges to their belief systems, this particular bastion of progressives is probably not where you should be.
Still no answer from the WWJD wearing crowd. Just the same gibberish about Jesus being a Darwinian, survial of the fittest, guy, from the one addled mope who is scared to death by the question.
And still,
They have no answer for this:
So I will keep asking it:
If people getting treated in emergency rooms is the problem, then why did the Republicans never pass any reform legislation to solve the problem, when they had the past eight years to do so?
They are just scapegoating those who have been denied coverage, and have to go to the emergency rooms, and they are shamefully conflating immigrations issues, with the emergency room issue, to try and persuade people, that the only problem with the current health care costs, is all the fault of undocumented sick people.
It is really disgusting to see a gay man, who is treated as vile sinner, and outcast by his party, turning around and profiling immigrants in the same disgusting manner.
@Scott – you’re the one to talk about vitriol with your snide attacks littered with “lies”. No wonder ncrepub is a disgusted republican.
“Still no answer from the WWJD wearing crowd. Just the same gibberish about Jesus being a Darwinian, survial of the fittest, guy, from the one addled mope who is scared to death by the question.”
Charity, not socialism. Apparently you are “scared of” that answer. So just keep pretending.
ncrepub~
I could have written your post myself, what is happening inside the Republican Party is just not something that I would ever want to associate with. Reagan is rolling over in his grave right now. I may not be a Pelosi-type fan, but right now – I would rather be standing on the side of the Pres, Dems and Pelosi right now than ANY Republican that was in that chamber last night!
Pg. 143 of HR 3200:
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
If charity is the answer then why is Health Insurance required, and why is it breaking the country.
Time for the WWJD crowd to step up to the charity plate, because apparently they have not being getting the job done.
amk:
you’re the one to talk about vitriol with your snide attacks littered with “lies”.
What are you talking about? I don’t recall ever accusing anyone on this board of lying. Even those who are lying.
amk:
Perhaps I misundersood you. What attacks, and what lies?
# rudeboy | September 10th, 2009 at 01:11 pm
Pg. 143 of HR 3200:
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
…………………………
What about the Private Insurance Companies. Do they refuse coverage to undocumented workers, or do they treat them like all others, and just take their money, and then refuse to pay for their medical bills, because they did not reveal they were undocumented, or that they had a prior case of acne.
“We’re about one more silly stunt away from looking like pathetic fools who can’t come up with anything more meaningful than “you hate America!” or similar tantrums whenever confronted or challenged. The American people may distrust government, but everyone HATES a crybaby.”
You mean like Obama calling everyone liars and telling us to shut up while he reforms and cleans up our mess? Or Pelosi et al calling us unAmerican Brownshirts and Nazis? Didn’t you think it was inappropriate for Obama to call his opponents liars from the well of the House? Were you as upset when Democrats booed and catcalled George Bush during joint sessions?
Or the extra-special respect they showed George Bush for 8 years, and the dignified way they opposed him?
If you are actually a Republican — which I frankly doubt — I feel sorry for you but would encourage you to stop falling into beaten-wife syndrome and believing the nonsense of what these liberals say about you. Really, did you ever see a bigger crybaby than Obama? A more passive-aggressive and thin-skinned head case? More bitter and ugly partisans than Pelosi, Reid, Waxman, et al?
You can’t seriously think the Democrats are more pro-business or intellectually deep than Republicans. Democrats are pushing nothing more than the same tired-out big-government, welfare statism that Bill Clinton himself said was over. The only difference now is that there is a true neo-Marxist radical in the Whitehouse.
And the truth is that modern liberalism IS largely anti-American. If you don’t understand that, you haven’t been listening for the past 30 years and certainly weren’t listeing if you went to college during this period. Liberals only take time to take offense at the observation when they aren’t bashing America and our history. I’m sorry it isn’t “polite” to say it. It is the truth, and everyone knows it.
I fear that Representative Wilson, as moronic, as stump-stupid, as perhaps brain-dead as he is, will suffer no lasting repercussions in our state of SC. He’ll be easily re-elected. We’re that dumb. (I have to be impressed though, by the money that flowed his opponent’s way within hours of the President’s speech. That was cool.)
The damage he did is to the right-wing of the right-wing of the national Republican party. And for that, good on ‘ya, Congressman.
Jenn D,
Let’s be serious, then, you aren’t a conservative and likely were never actually a Republican. If you think Reagan would be on the side of the Obama Democrats, you have no attachment to reality.
I am guessing that all the respectful liberals were equally upset when Democrats booed and catcalled George Bush during joint sessions. Which they did. And probably lots of unsavory things were said by them during those booing and catcalling sessions.
Apparently you are all also fine with Obama going to the well of the House and literally saying his opponents are lying.
You have no shred of intellectual honesty.
Why not remove the profit motive from Health Care. Pay doctors and staff good salaries, and get rid of the Insurance bag men, who keep up to thirty percent of what goes in the bag.
Have a government fund, that Doctors can pay into, to cover medical mistakes, so that patients can be compensated for mistakes. Make all Doctor records public, so that people can shun the bad doctors, and drive them out of the business.
That would solve the tort problem, because the government fund, much like the bank failure fund, would handle the compensation cases.
Set up a best practices national standards administration, which will monitor and update the best practices standards regulations, on a yearly basis.
Ban doctors from having any investments in any medical facilities, or any medical related businesses, to eliminate all conflicts of interest, when treating patients.
Pay them excellent salaries, just like we would any other skilled profession, but they must not be allowed to treat patients as opportunities for personal enrichment.
That would get rid of all the lawsuits, bring down costs, and end Doctors practicing defensive medicine.
Also, ban all Prescription Drug Ads. Time to get back to having the doctors decide what medicine a patient should take, instead of letting TV ads, and hypochondriacs writing the prescriptions.
“If charity is the answer then why is Health Insurance required, and why is it breaking the country.
Time for the WWJD crowd to step up to the charity plate, because apparently they have not being getting the job done.”
All published research show that “the WWJD crowd” is exceedingly generous, while liberals and Democrats aren’t. Biden, Gore, Obama, etc., are quite representative in that regard.
So it isn’t the WWJD crowd that is the problem. It is the Liam crowd that is uncharitable.
@ scot – I actually wrote a long reply to your post @ 1.15 and then decided why bother if you cannot see for yourself what’s wrong with your posts. Even the saintly Bernie here had given up on you many times by your dishonesty & ad hominem attacks.
BTW, “knowing” as you do that this is a loonies cage with peeps having CD and throwing insults at the repukes, why are you perenially here ?
Scott C: The cognitive dissonance on this board is really quite astounding. That the same people who regularly demean their political opponents as Repugs, Repigs, selfish Uncle Toms, trolls, imbeciles, etc can be so scandalized by a member of congress shouting (accurately, no less) “You lie” is highly amusing. A psychiatrist could have a field day here.
…and..
If you are looking for more than vitriol from people faced with challenges to their belief systems, this particular bastion of progressives is probably not where you should be.
Then why are YOU here?
“The damage he did is to the right-wing of the right-wing of the national Republican party. And for that, good on ‘ya, Congressman.”
Dream on. Liberals are shocked!! at the insolence. A few squishy “independents” are mortified. Some Republicans think he was right but should have refrained, and the conservative basis generally thinks it was high time someone showed some passion and spine. No one but the far left thinks it means a thing otherwise.
amk/Kathleen:
BTW, “knowing” as you do that this is a loonies cage with peeps having CD and throwing insults at the repukes, why are you perenially here ?
Slumming it.
Liam,
r u implying said congressman is a little light in the loafers????
As far as the Joe Wilson shout out, I think it is not really all that big a deal. He just picked the wrong place, the wrong time, and the wrong choice of words, and even his own party members threw him overboard almost at once.
There are Joe Wilson types in both parties, and in all walks of life.
Politics i a blood sport, and when ever some one hands the other side a weapon to use, then it will be used. Lots of Republicans regularity challenge the President, and say things such as; the president is not being completely honest, or some such phrasing, and no one gets aroused.
Republicans seize on statements that Democrats make, and play the outrage card, and so do the Democrats, when a Joe Wilson hands them a chance to do so.
That is how politics has been played from the very beginning of the nation. Thomas Jefferson payed people to write and publish awful lies about his opponents.
This too shall pass.
@Joe,
No I am not saying that some congressman is gay. I do not care if some one is or not. What I am objecting to is a gay republican person, who comes on here and objects to his party playing the Family Values card, because that makes an outcast of him, but he is perfectly willing to join those same hate mongers in their scapegoating of immigrants. I hate uncle toms of all persuasions, who are only offended by what disparages the group that they belong to, but eagerly engage in the disparaging of other groups.
Liam:
I hate uncle toms of all persuasions, who are only offended by what disparages the group that they belong to, but eagerly engage in the disparaging of other groups.
Your outrage at the disparaging of Republicans that goes on here is palpable.
Again…do you people have no sense of self-awareness?
@scott – “slumming it”
Then be a man and take it on the chin. And don’t whine, which you do constantly here. I’ll be only too happy to be the preek who constantly insults repugs here.
amk:
I’ll be only too happy to be the preek who constantly insults repugs here.
I think you would have done better to use the indefinite rather than the definite article. There is no shortage of competition here for that role.
Wilson’s toast….bye bye
oh scott, we dems here will take that as a compliment. I am just wondering about you taking all that we preeks dish out every day. What does that say about ya ?
@sbj
When you use quotation marks, it’s common to actually go the whole nine yards and say who you are quoting. For all we know, you are quoting Joe Wilson.
“sbj doesn’t know internet ettiquette”
See – it’s in quotations! It must be true!
Quarterback – Da Nile is the longest river on earth, and you will surely drown as you keep attempting to swim its entire length!
I’ve read your above musings, and I do think you need to go back and learn a bit better this time what civic discourse is, and what we as patriotic Americans owe to our august institutions we hold dear. Your rationalizations are silly on their face, and tragic in their substance. I am glad you are not my neighbor, and I hope you are not a member of my community.
I am a Republican of 31 years, and I must help stop your misunderstanding of our bodypolitik. Reagan was a master because he did not marginalize his opposition. Republican leaders who have followed have not been so masterful. I can say it, because I am not swimming da nile – Karl Rove and Lee Atwater have been the greatest danger to our nation simply because their scorch the earth political strategies have produced elected leaders who are at war with our government, run political campaigns based on the grotesque and absurd, and rendered civil discourse as quaint and archic irrelevancies.
Quarterback, your perspective is merely an aping of these two mentioned political hacks. You are not of the present or the future. You are of the past, so let us adults get the things done that need to get done, and you can spend your days angry at ghosts and shadows! -Kevo
Yet another reason to avoid visiting or supporting the backward state of South Carolina
@Rick: “When you use quotation marks, it’s common to actually go the whole nine yards and say who you are quoting.”
I often do but this group has the annoying habit of conferring validity only on liberal sources. I try to provide them often and if I don’t you can simply ask and I’ll dig it up. I do play fair.
While everyone is worried about if immagrants have health care or not, we Americans that have been dumped from our jobs trying to make ends meet, loosing health care because we can’t afford it anymore. Food is more important. Where is their help???? Doesn’t charity start at home? I don’t qualify for any kind of government health care because I’m not blind, over 65, pregnant or have dependants nor am I disabled. I’m 45 years old and love the country I live it but for some reason I have to fend for myself. Why does this country want to take better care of non citizens and not the citizens that are the reason this country is a super power. None of OUR government employees would not be if it weren’t for US paying their salaries. OUR government wants to take our hard earned taxes and give it to someone else.
Addison Graves ‘Joe’ Wilson seems to be a typical politician from anywhere, ever. Torn between their constituents and the machineries of corruption, greed, and power, all politicians eventually become a tad bitchy. The quickest way to put through a public-option health plan is to cancel the current medical coverage for all members of the House and Senate and their families and then sit back and watch as these elected officials try to get coverage through any “healthcare product provider” they choose, be it Blue X, Aetna, PacifiCare, whatnot. (I believe “politician” is considered a pre-existing condition) When our elected officials and their family members are unable to acquire health “insurance” through conventional means, like 1/3rd of all Americans, they’ll be more willing to consider a public option plan.
I’m sure to get hammered on this, but here goes. All you Libs,Dems and progressives need to grow a backbone and remember what it truly means to be an American. FREEDOM.Free to stand on your own without constant govt. intrusion into every aspect of your life.Free to succeed or fail without the desire to seek handouts from a government that no longer remembers its original purpose or its Constitutional restrictions from oppressing those that they serve.I and others like myself do not seek or desire further erosions of my God given rights in the name of fairness, charity or equality. All men were created equal.That does not mean that we remain equal.Be American and be independant,not a bunch of whining little children who think that everything in life is should be fair.
Our country is facing tough times. We’ve lost jobs overseas. People are losing their homes. We have dwindling resources. There are many who would like nothing more than to inflict casualties on innocent Americans. The life-support systems of our planet are stretched to capacity. We have elections to determine who leads. Democrats won. Republicans lost. In a better time, the losing party criticized but worked to inject its ideas into the process. Today there are few Republican elected officials who are willing to be anything other than obstructionist. That’s hurting our country. Republicans: you had your chance to lead and the majority of Americans did not approve of being led into a war based on false premises; was not proud of photos showing prisoners being tortured; did not believe that it was appropriate to drive Hummers while making our nation more dependent on foreign oil. You have decided that because we are Democrats and we believe that government can accomplish good that, we are somehow unAmerican. How can anyone claim to love their country and have hatred or contempt for half of their fellow countrymen? For the majority that voted for our president? We’re not your enemies, we’re your countrymen.
Health care socialism? Look, its time the monopoly of health come to an end. I am sorry if you feel otherwise. As the population ages there will be a break down for everyone of this vital service. You assume under the Republican plans, Capitalism will take of it. Under the Capitalism plan old people dont make a profit for these companies, they will have to charge those of us still able to pay, to pay more.So we will end up paying one way or the other. Death panels? They already exist stupid, how many times have you heard of people being denied coverage or service, even after paying their premiums for years. I know people with preexistence conditions who can get coverage, and if they do, it wont cover those preexisting conditions.Senator McCain’s plan was to give families 5000 tax credits to buy insurance. First, that would be 250billion a year or more, that’s 3 times the amount Obamas plan would cost. Second, that just makes insurance companies more money and enslaves us to them.Third the insurance companies already suck, do you really think they would change their practices when they have you from the B**ls? Rock or hard place, it our choice, and its time to make it.
Rep Wilson: please see Dr. Crane
these old zebras you cantm change their stripes white people are mad that they have a black President in the white house get it white house oh yeah sarah palin needs to quit talking like she quit the gov job thank you
First, 99% of our families would have been considered “immigrants” in this country at some point in the past–most illegal by today’s standards. Bad luck for those in 2009 that those of us here earlier were able to MAKE the rules as to what constitutes “legal” and “illegal” after our families “got in.”
Second, the point was made earlier that illegal immigrants w/o health insurance tend to pay hospitals, physicians etc., in cash. I can tell you that at the hospital I work at, that’s true–even when they ARE documented and legal, they are so paranoid of being hounded, investigated, deported, etc. they will pay cash (up front) whenever possible.
Third, right now $1 out of every $5 in our GDP is going to health care. Within the very near future that’s expected to become $1 in $3, and not long after that $1 in $2. Sustainability is impossible. Republicans hoping this is Obama’s “Waterloo” and accusing him of lying, of throwing in the red herring of “illegal immigration” and Democrats who have said they will vote for no plan with a public funded option had better wake up before it’s too late; because if we continue on this path of doing nothing to address the health care system, the enemies of the U.S.A. will sit back and watch our economy (and our nation) collapse under our own inertia and bickering. The attacks of 8 years ago today will have been unnecessary. Our enemies will just be able to stand by and watch it happen. No, it won’t be the drama of those horrendous fires and explosions, but a bankrupt infrastructure will be no less disastrous.
Finally, to those of you saying “we’re rushing into this!” give your head a shake!! We’ve been arguing about health care and how to ‘get it right’ since FDR!! We were able to help turn the tide of both the first and second world wars in a couple of years–the President, Congress, and government taking the lead with the able (and crucial) assistance of business. I refuse to believe we can’t do that again now. Maybe I’m being a ****-eyed optimist, but God help us all if I’m wrong.