Yikes! Did Obama Really Call America A Muslim Country? Nope.
With President Obama set to depart for the Mideast, many will likely jump on him today for allegedly calling America a Muslim country on French television late yesterday.
Indeed, critics are already grabbing on to the comment as it was reported in the New York Times write-up:
In an interview with Laura Haim on Canal Plus, a French television station, Mr. Obama noted that the United States also could be considered as “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.” He sought to downplay the expectations of the speech, but he said he hoped the address would raise awareness about Muslims.
The Times piece is already spreading rapidly on the right. PowerLineBlog, for instance, asked: “In what possible sense can any rational person consider the United States to be a Muslim country?” But here’s what Obama actually said:
Now, the flip side is I think that the United States and the West generally, we have to educate ourselves more effectively on Islam. And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslims Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. And so there’s got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples.
Hard-core rhetoricians will note that Obama was employing an obscure tense known as the “conditional,” and an arcane rhetorical device known as a “hypothetical.” He said that if you were to take the number of Muslims in America, then one could see America as ranking up there with other Muslim countries — in numerical, hypothetical terms.
Sure, let’s fact-check the claim about the number of Muslims and analyze the policy implications. But come on, the man simply didn’t say America is a Muslim country. It’s going to be a long week.
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John Hinderaker will likely be with us for a while having made a substantial fortune (quite separate from his blogging venture) as a personal incontinence consultant over at Claremont.
Greg
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I believe the NYTimes, knowing right wing a$$hats will never actually look up the text, translated Pres Obama’s words that way on purpose to start some sh*t and generate interest. There is no way an editor didn’t see that characterization of his words and didn’t know they weren’t true to what he had actually said. So much for our “liberal” media. I keep thinking any day now they will announce that Jeffery Rosen of TNR Sotomayor hit job fame has been given a column.
And one of the largest Jewish countries. And Mormon countries. And lapsed-Catholic countries. And Wiccan countries.
Cripes, they are a whiny bunch, aren’t they? And over the most stupid, inane things.
Hinderaker is the absolute worst. All partisan bluster and no substance. A good example is when a week ago, he said that the McClatchy factcheck article re: Cheney’s speech was “the worst piece of journalism” he’d ever seen or some such thing, riddled with lies and “liberal talking points.” He then said that he’d explain exactly what the article’s faults were later, but he couldn’t just yet because he had to go to bed.
Ditto sgw’s comment.
Agreed, all, the Times’ version of what happened is highly questionable.
“Hinderaker is the absolute worst. All partisan bluster and no substance”
Yep. Hindrocket is the one who 3 years ago lamented that Bush is a misunderstood genius who will be vinidicated by history and seen for the genius he is someday.
Uh huh.
Greg,
Your point is a good one except for the grammatical explanation. English doesn’t have a conditional tense. Obama’s was a conditional sentence, the purpose of which is to highlight one (albeit only one) legitimate way of looking at things. He could have made the same point by saying that the Muslim population in the United States is one of the largest of any country in the world and in that way it is one of the biggest Muslim countries in the world. His way of putting the point leaves it open, and indeed encourages one to think, there are other ways of looking at the matter, e.g., if you look at the US population as a whole, it is not a predominantly Muslim country as Muslims are a fairly small minority of the overall population.
This is exactly why I get so upset at our media. They do things like this to gin up controversy to have something to talk about.
They are supposed to REPORT the news… not MAKE UP the news.
It’s just a shame that you have so clearly DEBUNKED this fake controversy in record time, and no one will care. Our media will ignore it…
Gingrich is going to pst a comment on twitter…
Rush is going to yell his lungs out…
And every afternoon cable news show is going to have Right-Wing hacks on to test drive the new talking points they will have worked on all day.
pitiful…
Jeff Zeleny of the NYtimes should start working at TMZ. Ethically challenged journalism is something he is clearly comfortable with.
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Here’s a hint on how to learn which “journalists” will be pushing a right wing slanted story next week: Watch Republican insurance saleswomen Gwen Ifill’s show Washington Week on PBS, write down the names of the other “journalists” on her panel, and wait. They almost always push right wing narratives.
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When Jeff Zeleny started showing up on shill Ifill’s show, I immediately started discounting anything with his byline.
If made up controversy is all they got I’ll take it.
Gwen Ifill’s perhaps one of the few truly objective journalists out there, and a damned good one at that. If that makes her a “Republican insurance saleswoman” (is that really the best you could come up with?), then I guess you’re more interested in folks who will only feed you whatever you want to hear.
As for this fake controversy, I’m glad Greg’s nipping it in the bud.
If there are six million Muslims in the US, that makes it the 34th biggest Muslim country in the world – behind Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, China, Ethiopia, Algeria, Morocco, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Tanzania, Syria, Malaysia, Niger, Senegal, Ghana, Tunisia, Somalia, Guinea, Kenya, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Burkina Faso and Tajikistan.
Doesn’t anybody vet this idiot’s statements? First of all, it isn’t true, even in the way Obama is twisting it.
Second of all, when anyone dares to say we are a “Christian nation”, something which is a lot closer to the facts numbers and heritage wise, the left always goes into a whirling tizzy and faints on the couch screaming about how we are a secular society and starts emitting Deist quotes from a couple founders like a sputtering sparkler. Well you can argue how many signers of our Constitution were Christian vs Deist, but they sure as hell weren’t Muslim!
Thirdly this is pandering at its worst. Does anyone think this kind of ahistoric cloying nonsense will garner respect for the US? Imagine if a Saudi ruler said Saudi Arabia was a Christian country. We’d think him an idiot. Get the point?
Gwen Ifill is hard working, committed to the idea of journalism, and skeptical of all politicians. My sense has always been that her default position is wherever the mainstream narrative lies and that her comfort zone is narrow and Villager. For that reason, I’ve found Washington Week under her direction a less useful show.
It is a common joke in Germany to refer to Cologne as the fourth-largest Turkish city in the world, after Istanbul, Ankara, and Berlin.
This is not important.
“This is exactly why I get so upset at our media. They do things like this to gin up controversy to have something to talk about.
They are supposed to REPORT the news… not MAKE UP the news.”
This column over at Media Matters is invaluable reading:
http://mediamatters.org/columns/200906020003
“They are supposed to REPORT the news… not MAKE UP the news.””
O but that’s not how it’s done these days – first, they put themselves smack dab in the middle of the story – which is the worst possible way to start a news story, IMO. Then they make it up. Cf. BoBo Brooks – he loves to make up the mythical “everyman” cabbie or guy drinking coffee in a diner in Nebraska that Tom spent an afternoon talking to (and of course BoBo lives in Manhattan and is rich;) and from there he just makes up something this person supposedly said that stands for the thinking of every other American.
That’s how it’s done now.
“Doesn’t anybody vet this idiot’s statements?”
Somebody sure needs to vet THIS idiot’s statements.
“One of the largest” is certainly a stretch but it’s not like Muslims are alien to our nation. And that was Obama’s point. In addition, this wasn’t really targeted at a domestic audience, it was targeted at the countries he is going to visit. And it was targeted at the people of those countries, not their leaders. Even if “one of the largest” isn’t exactly accurate (unless you consider “largest” to be any country in the top 50%), it still much better than talking about launching a “crusade” in Muslim nations.
@OGL: Accepting America as #34 (I didn’t check this math) … that represents a larger Muslim population than 80% of the world (based on 195 nations … State Department list + Taiwan). I think that places Obama’s statement within the realm of numeric accuracy.
It is conventional to refer to Chicago as the second largest Polish city in the world, after Warsaw.
I’ve never heard anyone get upset about that.
This is a classic hissy-fit (read Digby’s explanation of the phenomenon at http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/art-hissy-fit). Ridicule it enough and it will go away.
Hey, great point about hypotheticals and conditionals!
You’re correct that Obama said, “if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans…”
So, if I don’t actually “take” that number, then I can ignore what Obama said! In fact, any time he starts a sentence with the word “if,” he gets a freebie! No further analysis or criticism allowed!
Obama tripped all over his rhetorical devices pandering to a major religion -simple as that.
Make all the excuses you want–but that is WRONG.
As a Muslim, this is just run of the mill from what I’ve come to expect from the American media. Even if he did genuinely mean it, what would that imply? That we would be no different from the people we are fighting? Implying that to be Muslim means to be evil? OK, got it.
The US media’s reaction to Obama calling the US a Muslim country pretty much shows how racist our reporting organizations really are against Muslims and Islam.
According to the list of Muslim countries in the Wikipedia, a population of 6 million would rank 30th out of 46 Muslim countries, right between Libya and Jordan. So not even conditionally would the US be one of the largest such.
I wish Barack Obama would read the Bible and follow it. I wish the U.S. Gov’t would read the Bible and follow. They need to refer to it when their is an issue on any matter. To all people, no matter what their color or race, when it comes time for judgement day, everyone is going to be asked what have you done. And deep down everyone knows that there is a heaven and hell. You decide where you want to go. Every one quit blaming, whining and making excuses and do the right thing.
Except for the fact that the conditional statement is in no way true.
Indeed, the US barely breaks the top 40 in terms of the number of Muslims in the population — and then only if one uses the most inflated numbers out there.
There are more ppl converting to ISLAM than any other religion who reside in the U.S. I would say OBAMA is damn right and all you are just jealous and can’t admit it!
With 8 million Muslims, the US is number 42. Hardly “one of the largest.”
well,
i pu pu your politics and inject my own. the only purpose of them besides to show how nutty and ludicrous all of you sound, is that i hate politics they just tear people apart and cause arguments. so i propose that obama goes back to where he came from McCain goes back from where he came from and everybody just shut the hell up. obama this obama that WHO CARES i am personally tired of hearing about obama all. the. time. oh and also everyone is entitled to their opinion, religion, and concepts. i am just personally tired of this whole thing find something else to complain and belly ache about… thank you and have a nice day
This isn’t a remark on Islam. What I would like the President to say as well as our learning about Islam, is that the MUSLIM WORLD needs to learn more about Secular Humanism and Christianity, which form the backbone of the Western world.
Why is it always US that have to change for them? This reminds me of people who condemn the Crusades but leave out the fact they were preceded by Muslims conquering and forcibly converting many Christian and European nations, and before that the battle of Tours in 732. This battle fought in FRANCE was what turned the Muslims back from marching into Rome and killing the Pope.
Mr. President, please don’t make this a one-sided debate.
I like how some of you Liberals like to call people who are conservative right wing hacks, Do you then believe also as was stated by The head of homeland security that veterans like myself should be watched because we are a possible terrorist threat?…
“There are more ppl converting to ISLAM than any other religion who reside in the U.S. I would say OBAMA is damn right and all you are just jealous and can’t admit it!”–Truth Hurts
Let me clarify that for you Truth Hurts. Most of them are African American racists and Afro-Supremacists who converted post 9/11. This has already been written about the in the New York Times, USA Today and The Washington Post. I suggest you look that up. If a tiny portion of the population that is sympathetic to anti-Western forces decides to convert, it doesn’t signal any change in the U.S. as a whole. These are the people who are most likely to convert anyway.
The other group is largely women marrying into Islam.
Obama needs to think before he speaks and do a little more research!
“The head of homeland security that veterans like myself should be watched because we are a possible terrorist threat?…”
I’m a veteran myself. I fought in operation Al Fajr in Fallujah in November 2004. I had another tour in 2005. And I agree with the gist of Napolitano’s report. If you look at right wing extremist groups, Veterans are over represented. Just because it may hurt people’s feelings doesn’t mean we shouldn’t report it.
Personally, I think the Islamic population of the world will increase. Not because of any religious fervor, rather just because of a lack of birth control.
Poor people have a higher birth rate, in part as a Social Security plan, but mostly due to ignorance.
As Lenin is quoted as having said: “Religion is the opiate of the people.” If you are uneducated and poor, what else gives you a promise of a better world than religion??? “God” wants you to have 15 sons to show how “God fearing or Pious” you are.
What a CROCK!
Most people in the world should NEVER reproduce! And the real shame is that the LEAST capable, do the MOST reproducing. Religion has nothing to do with that at all. Religion of all types just sells best to the ignorant, uneducated masses.
R u guys kidding me. You guys are the people in America who are the racist people. You guys are arguing bout the # of muslims and America’s rank. Muslim r a lot in America compared to other religons. Face the facts we aren’t aliens. Islam is the fastest growing religon. Tell me how fast christianity is grow….. There are alot of people but compare the rate2 the muslim poplation. I know a lot of Muslim convert scholars . And they use to be priests. Islam is a amazing religon. The media portrays Islam as a religon of terrorists…. That’s bull?! Pick up a translated quran and read it. Tell me the beauty of it. By reading the Quran how many people becoming muslims? How many lectures are there that people convert to Islam?! Fast growing. So Your telling me that Islam is not a big religon in America? Take a famous person who converted. MALCOM X and the list is growing. I beilve that American citizens(some) are accusing muslims as terrorists. They are racist and Muslim-Americans are being treated badly. There is still segregation in our everyday lives. Look at the cities. Blacks live on one side, and whites on the other. Blacks in the north and whites in the south…. There are high top schools with a very same amount of Black students. Even the test scores of schools with a minority high populations. Yes we have Barack Obama but still. We need to change the ways of how people look at the religon. Christianity has a lot of flaws?! Why is the bible changed every year due to what the major priests want it to be. The quran is and never will be changed unlike the bible……..
You can all act as though he didn’t say it- but he did. Case closed. What is it with all these dem presidents having to slice words into pieces to make it okay? Anyone remember being told “it depends on what the definition of “is” is”???????
This is hilarious!! People are not really this gullible,….Are they?
Muslim–
“R u guys kidding me. You guys are the people in America who are the racist people. You guys are arguing bout the # of muslims and America’s rank. Muslim r a lot in America compared to other religons. Face the facts we aren’t aliens. Islam is the fastest growing religon. Tell me how fast christianity is grow….. There are alot of people but compare the rate2 the muslim poplation. I know a lot of Muslim convert scholars . And they use to be priests. Islam is a amazing religon. The media portrays Islam as a religon of terrorists…. That’s bull?! Pick up a translated quran and read it. Tell me the beauty of it. By reading the Quran how many people becoming muslims? How many lectures are there that people convert to Islam?! Fast growing. So Your telling me that Islam is not a big religon in America? Take a famous person who converted. MALCOM X and the list is growing. I beilve that American citizens(some) are accusing muslims as terrorists. They are racist and Muslim-Americans are being treated badly. There is still segregation in our everyday lives. Look at the cities. Blacks live on one side, and whites on the other. Blacks in the north and whites in the south…. There are high top schools with a very same amount of Black students. Even the test scores of schools with a minority high populations. Yes we have Barack Obama but still. We need to change the ways of how people look at the religon. Christianity has a lot of flaws?! Why is the bible changed every year due to what the major priests want it to be. The quran is and never will be changed unlike the bible……..”
Why should we change for you? How about you change to live in a Western nation. Don’t ever forget where you are.
Obama is visiting all his distant relatives this week. You just watch. He is going to promise his buddies that he will push Israel to divide their country and give the wacko palestinians what they have been killing for all these years. How low did Obama bow this time? How high did he stick his butt in the air kissing those muslim feet?
John Jackson writes this…..As Lenin is quoted as having said: “Religion is the opiate of the people.” If you are uneducated and poor, what else gives you a promise of a better world than religion??? “God” wants you to have 15 sons to show how “God fearing or Pious” you are.
Then he writes most people should not produce. Hopefully John Jackson you DIDN’T EITHER!!! What a jerk you are.
If you begin to comapre the actualy numbers of muslims in the U.S. you’re missing the concept of his speech entirely. Obama is doing us a service by improving our image abroad and showing the world that we are not some exclusive hemogeny but an open and democratic nation. The see-saw argument about wether or not we are “x” this or “x” that is mute. Our constitution ensures that whatever god we pray to, we are still American.
Media will always twist things to say something controversial, they can’t thrive off of boring! Why do you think they always use the most extreme words to try and describe something? “Tornado hits town, 2 killed” doesn’t sound nearly as interesting as “Town Slammed by Tornado, $X-amount property damage”.
@ Muslim: Don’t go throwing around stuff about the Bible, its been proven time and again to be accurate with comparisons to many of the original documents. And last I checked, the Quran is no longer considered holy and divine once you translate it. I know this because I know several Muslim people. Malcom X was black, killed by black people who were also Muslim. Care to explain how they weren’t racist against Malcom X for being in love with a white chick? And yes, you can live the Muslim faith without being a militant, but that isn’t taking your faith as far as it should go. Jihad is the main view of Islam, you can be a man of faith and be a Muslim but you are not truly living the Islamic lifestyle that the Kuran calls for.
I am a Christian, and I’m sad to say that America once WAS a Christian nation. It is now a nation that is trying to squelch its Christian heritage. Because of “tolerance”, in America it is better to be a member of a Wiccan Church than to be a Bible believing Christian. It is also sad for me to say that many people claiming to be Christians only claim to be for the brownie points they score for looking like decent moral people…
America isn’t that high on the list of countries that have a large percentage of Muslims, but it more than likely will, due to ignorance and other things. The fact that we have a Muslim President will attest to that fact…
And no I’m not against mexicans immigrating, if anyone was wonder. Just like any other person, I think all immigrants should learn english, and become part of the American society, not have a subculture where they can just ignore everyone else if they don’t speak their language or have their prefrences. I don’t care if you’re russian, mexican, chinese, iranian, or british: become part of the society!
So his facts were actually wrong.
So what? He was trying to make the point that we have a lot of Muslims in the United States, and we seem to get along with them pretty well. He’s trying to prove that we don’t have a problem with Islam, like many of the people of Muslim countries have been led to believe, but rather that we have a problem with terrorism.
Islam itself is a very nice religion. Whoever said you should read the Quran and see how beautiful it is was very right in that regard.
Also, I am not Muslim, nor Christian, nor anything else.
It’s not going to be a long week. This right wing talking point can be demolished in two seconds. And it will be demolished everywhere except FOX News. And who cares about them. The only people who watch them are McCain voters.
Yes it was a conditional claim, wherein if the antecedent were true, then the consequent is true.
Question: is the antecedent true?
The antecedent is:
“If you took actually took the number of Muslims [sic] Americans…”
This is either an untelligible statement (which would not be the first uttered by President Obama) or it’s verbal shorthand for “If you actually COUNTED the number of Muslim Americans.”
Well, the number of Muslim Americans HAS been counted. We call it the Census. Therefore the antecedent has been fulfilled. It is true.
How can you not say that the truth of the antecedent makes the statement “We are one of the largest Muslim countries in the world” an assertion of fact by the President of the United States?
Seriously, this is Logic 101.
re:”Scientific” June 3rd, 2009 at 10:35 am
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On the PBS NewsHour, Gwen Ifill treats Democratic guest with contempt, she sneers at liberal ideas, and she fluffs Republican guests and right wing ideas.
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Gwen Ifill uses her PBS show “Washington Week” to bring on some of the worst right of center journalists to spout right of center ideas and sneer at left of center ideas.
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When Gwen Ifill gave a personal sales job for the Republican AARP program on her Washington Week PBS show I was appalled.
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It’s one thing to have advertisers, but she crossed a line with her shilling for a right wing political group.
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AARP works for Republican interests.
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AARP makes it’s money selling health insurance and it is vigorously working against the left’s ideal of a single payer health insurance.
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If Gwen Ifill ever had objectivity she sold it out for a Republican insurance company.
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Gwen Ifill is NOT objective and she’s a shoddy journalist as well.
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Gwen Ifill limits both the debaters on her show to right of center commentators, an astonishing number of whom have consistently shown sharp and unremitting right wing bias, and then further limits the debate to right of center talking points.
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It’s one thing for Gwen Ifill to push her right bias on her WashingtonWeek show, but my complaints about Gwen Ifill’s right wing bias started with her contemptible right wing bias on PBS’s NewsHour.
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Commenter “AllButCertain” expresses the most charitable thing I would concede about Gwen Ifill’s journalism: “her default position is wherever the mainstream narrative lies and that her comfort zone is narrow and Villager.”
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Gwen Ifill is the essence of the “narrow” “villager” (h/t Digby).
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Gwen Ifill does NOT have integrity as a journalist, she has a right wing agenda and should not be a host of the NewsHour, which should be as free of bias as possible.
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Obama said the US had 57 states also..Funny thing is that is the exact number of Islamic states..57..
Inigo Montoya | June 3rd, 2009 at 01:41 pm
It is conventional to refer to Chicago as the second largest Polish city in the world, after Warsaw.
“I’ve never heard anyone get upset about that.
This is a classic hissy-fit (read Digby’s explanation of the phenomenon at”
Poles don’t blow **** up….Muslims do
People are rightfully upset as our President stated that we are not a Christian nation a couple of weeks ago, yet has no problem bending over and stating that we are one of the largest Muslim countries. I am SICK of the current administration trying to change what we are or acting like we should not be proud of what we are. I know that we have many religions here and that is our right as Americans. However, we cannot change the history/facts that our country was founded UNDER GOD and on Christian principals. Someone needs to tell Obama that he is the President of the United States of America, the greatest nation on earth, NOT THE MUSLIM WORLD!!!
Amy and Reprobate with a red sports car. You are exactly right. Why do so many people want to come to the States and so few want to leave the States permanently.
I don’t understand what he is trying to say considering we have roughly 2 mil Muslims here? That is not a big Muslim percentage. I for one do not want to be Muslim and I wish the Pres would stop saying stupid **** when he goes abroad!!! It’s bad enough what he’s doing to us he don’t need to lie to the other countries about our faith. What faith is he anyway? He covered up Christ at the commencement speech, he didn’t participate in the holy day? Anyone know for sure??
Clearly the U.S is in for some tough times.We have a crpto Moslem president parroting under the guise of neointelligetisa and Liberalism.
Its only a moslem American leader who would set as priority reconcilling the U.S with al qaeda.
he doesnt even go to church and it is just the 6th month!
don’t think for one moment, that the muslim folks aren’t laughing behind their hands, unable to divine p. obama’s oh so obvious pandering… it’s embarrassing really. i’m still waiting for the “authentic dialogue” to begin. should i mention the chinese as well? t. geitner recieved a laughing ovation during his attempt to assure folks that their u.s. investments are still sound. the chinese happened to be quite a bit more forthcoming in their scepticism.
are you trying to find the true intention of the words, or are you looking for a specific intention. I don’t judge what he could have meant but what he said. giving Barock the benefit of the dought is what you owe everyone including yourself. you only speculate to hurt yourself. its like talking to my wife when shes upset with herself. no matter how I see her and tell her she looks beautiful, there are times she chooses to believe im lying to make her feel better. its a choice. I am a christian. You are not a Bible christian if you haven’t received the spirit of God. Just read the bible and take it literally . if you want true insight ask Jesus “if your real, will you show me?” if you do this with an open heart you will find the peace you need.
if you don’t know your just guessing?
LADIES AND GENTLEMAN:
LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE YET ANOTHER ***FAILED*** ATTEMPT BY THE INFAMOUS “GOP FACT TWISTER.”
THE GOP NEVER QUITS DO THEY? GOTTA ADMIRE THEIR PERSISTENCE THOUGH
GOP’S MOTTO:
WHEN WE’RE LOSING, START PUMPIN FEAR!
Wow! Gwen Ifill must be a real bad person. PBS? Isn’t that the same tax-supported network that gives that sniveling little communist, Bill Moyers a pulpit to spew his hate for the Constitution? First time to have encountered the Plum Line, but it seems to be dominated by supporters of presi-dunce Dilbert, CEO of Albatross Motors. One must empathize with the liberals: They can’t let their minds wander, they’re too small to be out on their own………………….
Well now that we’ve seen and read the actual comment, it would seem a lot more interesting to focus on that, rather than the commentary about the comment.
So in that sense, what Obama said was stupid. There are 4.1 million “muslims” in the U.S. (according to Nationmaster.com) ranking the U.S. 41st among nations in Muslim population behind such Islamic powerhouses like Chad and France. That number includes the 1.5 million “Nation of Islam” adherents, which most Muslims would not include amongst their own. So, adjusting for Nation of Islam there are really about 2.6 million “Muslims” in the U.S. which would rank us 54th in the world in Muslim population.
By comparison Russia, the worlds 18th largest muslim population has 21.5 million muslims.
So exactly what does Obama mean when he says ” And one of the points I want to make is, that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world”.
Knowing that the U.S. ranks 3rd in the world in total population would you ever say with a straight face that we are “one of the largest Muslim countries in world” given that our true ranking is somewhere between 41st and 54th. I probably wouldn’t, unless I had some agenda which would be well served by misleading people about the facts. But not being a politician, and Obama in particular, I don’t do that sort of thing.
So in the end, context fully considered, his comment was either misinformed or disingenuous. Take your pick.
Obviously, the right is going to have this. Americans cannot do math. By all counts Indonesia is the largest muslim country. Pakistan and India are 2 and 3. The US probably has a many muslims as lebanon or Jordan though.
I think the thrust of Obama’s speech is that Muslim Americans are fully integrated into US society. Maybe not by culture, but they still have full legal rights and opportunity.
Jeff,
“Seriously, this is Logic 101.”
Then have a taste of logic 102- when Obama said “if you take”, it’s easy to see that this means “if you consider separately”, not (as you propose) “if you count”.
Consider this statement: “My health care plan is the best- if you take just the savings for the currently uninsured, it pays for itself”. Clearly, this doesn’t mean “if you count”.
Anyone familiar with spoken English and American coloquialisms should be able to understand this; I suspect most of those who don’t are engaging in a willful ignorance.
I am so tired of people saying “What Obama meant to say was….” Why can’t he be judged on the EXACT words that come out of his mouth?! Say what you mean and mean what you say. I guess Obama can’t do this as he is constantly catering to a different crowd.
lol we elected a muslim as president shows how dumb we are as americans lol. good job guys were screwed now forever
I think Curtis your post hits it on the head. Leave aside any bias either way and what Obama said was just not true. Especially if you look at it with the percentage of Muslims in this country compared to the Muslim Nations either above or below us in total number of Muslims. We are not even close! Any political spin either way is silly and although he may have been trying to jedi some foreign “Muslims” by seeming all buddy buddy they surely didn’t buy into that statistic.
Obama deception.
“I’m a veteran myself. I fought in operation Al Fajr in Fallujah in November 2004. I had another tour in 2005. And I agree with the gist of Napolitano’s report. If you look at right wing extremist groups, Veterans are over represented. Just because it may hurt people’s feelings doesn’t mean we shouldn’t report it.” – Marine in DC
Muslims over represent terrorists all over the world, should all muslims be targeted? I’m a veteran and should be respected for what I am and what I’ve done and not be targeted as a right wing terrorist recruit!
Typical “Obama-speak” using “if” to absolve him of any real responsibility for his statements and always allowing him an out. Typical politician’s words to stir up emotions and keep the egotistical, narcissitic character in the buzz. I am also embarrased at his efforts to appease our enemies. Oh, sorry, didn’t mean to imply anything negative, like our having enemies and all. I am thankful for all of the previous writers who did the research and honed in on the actual numbers. Thanks. You have restored my faith in my fellow Americans. I think we need to keep a closer watch on what is happening here at home in our nation’s Capitol.
Actually, he’s just speaking prophetically. At the rate the muslim population is growing, the U.S.A. will probably be converted in a few years. The problem with freedom of religion is that it allows the muslims room, and they are bent on world domination. A so called “peaceful” muslim is one that hasn’t fully committed himself to islam. Its almost comical. The very thing that makes this country so great is the catlyst for the poison that will eventually kill us. The bright side (if there is one) is that the muslims won’t tolerate gay marriage. We may have to drop-n-pray 5 times a day to a dead religion but at least we’ll be free of the gay disease. (Yes, I said disease, not lifestyle…) let the whining commence!
RE: muslim | June 3rd, 2009 at 04:17 pm
R u guys kidding me
why do blacks and whites live on dif sides of city?
Are american muslims same as afgan, iranian muzlemz?
animalz thats why
I agree with June. It isn’t too late for the Christian Community to come together and show the world the real American Christian values. Considering the mess we have gotten ourselves into by not paying attention to the Bible and our Constitution. We can still better ourselves, these values are what shaped our once great country. Wish we had a Mr. Smith goes to Washington-Jimmy Stewart. and another one and another one ect. but one is a start, certainly isn’t Obama. A challenge-who in polotical land has what it takes? think about it. Another rough 31/2 years only worse, but as Americans we can make it. Americans have been kicked down, our names rubbed in the mud before, and WE have bounded back Let’s show the world we aren’t out yet. GOD BLESS AMERICA. HANG IN THERE IT WILL TAKE TIME.
Take it easy folks! America is not just a country–it’s a continent, if not the entire globe. In the long run, America simply cannot survive if it continues on blindly following the Cheney doctrine. Cheney believes in making foes out of friends, just to keep feeding his bankrollers and enriching himself and his immediate family. He doesn’t care much about the future of America or any other nation.
Obama was elected to get us out of that mindset. He’s working tirelessly to restore America’s standing in the world. He knows that America must make more friends–not more enemies. The economy is in shambles. America is on its way to becoming a third-world country. America has more formidable powers and foes to reckon with on the financial, technological, and military fronts.
Muslims, about 1.5 billion, are a considerable consumer base in the world. The funny thing is that the overwhelming majority of Muslims like anything American, except America’s foreign policy! Just consult the polls.
If, God forbid, Obama doesn’t succeed, I think America will be doomed forever. You simply cannot survive economically, politically, strategically…, if you follow the dangerous path of Cheney and the neo-cons.
We should know by now, what President Barack Hussein Obama says is not what he does. He seems to say things, then does the opposite. Typical DC people. And remember, they said he didn’t bow to the Prince. He does appear to be doing our enemy’s bidding!
Yeah, Yeah, we know: he didn’t REALLY say “America IS a Muslim nation”
He really said America woulda coulda shoulda be a Muslim Nation.
Parse it all you like.
In English he meant- hey, look at all the Muslims in the US! When I go on my World Tour of Muslim Nations let’s all pretend I’m a BIG IMPORTANT Muslim leader- I’m like King Tut!!
Hey you– bow!
Was the President correct in stating a Fact, that is the Truth about a group of Citizens, of which he was elected to Repersent, as part of a Government, by the People, for the People, of Which the Founders Fathers,Envision this Republic to be Established and Function as Created.
Yes, every year on St. Patrick’s Day, someone says that if you count the Irish in New York, it would be the third largest Irish city in the world (or whatever). And the same thing has been said about Chicago and Poles or New York and Jews, etc. etc. Now, Obama may have his numbers wrong, but his meaning was similar. So now the hysterical right – Kimberly Guilfoyle, for instance — is outraged OUTRAGED by Obama calling the U.S. a Muslim country. These people have no shame and no sense of decency.
Perhaps ‘one of the largest’ in terms of ‘land mass’. Okay,,,maybe a stretch; but could be termed factual.
If it were not for the religious agenda and the inability to enforce the fiscal discipline that supposedly defines the Republican party I would be a staunch supporter. Sadly the party has degenerated into this type of nonsense and seems to be often represented (see the above posts) by angry people that can’t spell.
So sad. Raise your hand if you are for a multi-party system!
He says he wants to MAKE THE POINT that the ACTUAL NUMBER of Muslims in America makes America one of the LARGEST MUSLIM COUNTRIES in the world. He is not saying this is some kind of hypothetical situation, he is saying it is a POINT, in other words a FACT, that Americans need to educate themselves about.
Trying to excuse him by saying that he is proposing some kind of hypothetical situation is ridiculous; He is making a point regardless of if he says “if you actually took the number”, “WHEN you take the number”, or “THE NUMBER IS”. HE IS ASSERTING A POINT, CLEAR AND SIMPLE.
In this case the hypothetical ‘IF’ is only referring to IF YOU WANT TO ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT THE # OF MUSLIMS.
SO Blogger Greg, if you still think he was speaking in the ‘Hypothetical’, can you please enlighten your readers as to exactly what point was he trying to make when he says, according to your article: “if you actually took the number of Muslims Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world”? Was he trying to say that we shouldn’t pay any attention to that number? I thought he prefaced it by saying we need to educate ourselves about those things…
To be brutally honest(I’m sorry to have to do this to you), the presidents assertion that the U.S. Muslim population is one of the world’s largest is terribly ignorant and flawed, as the U.S. ranks somewhere around #43 on the list of largest (population-wise) Muslim nations.
What an idiotic statement by Obama. It’s not even close to being the truth. The the “journalist” who’s going with this twisting is just as stupid. But, again, Obama WITHOUT a teleprompter is a scary thing. He’s prone to stupid comments when he talks “off the cuff”. Poor guy.
And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslims Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. According to you, these are the words Barack spoke. Then you say this… He said that if you were to take the number of Muslims in America, then one could see America as ranking up there with other Muslim countries — in numerical, hypothetical terms. We’d be=we would be NOT one could see. The guy says something,he gets challenged,the press covers for him. Here, I’ll help you…..”THE PRESIDENT’S WORDS WERE CHALLENGED IN A BLOG TODAY.AFTER ABSOLUTELY NO INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING WE HAVE CONCLUDED THE BLOOGGER IS …………………………… you fill in the blank.
Not that I care all that much but one reason that Islam is growing is that it is allowed freedom in western countries while in the vast majority of Muslim countries it is a crime to share other relgions. People get killed or imprioned or shunned for presenting Christianity or any other religion. I always wondered if Muslim countries were afraid to have comptition. Western nations allow all religions and religious thought to flourish. Muslims countries seem afraid to allow their people to choose their own religion or if they don’t want any religion…
It’s just Obama wishful thinking out loud………can’t hide who he really is or what his agenda is…….
Willful ignorance seems to characterize too large a percentage of the population of my country. There’s no need to analyze his words or “slice [his] words into pieces;” it’s clear what he said and what he said is correct. The US has the 41st largest population of Muslim-identified citizens. 41 out of 195 (the number of nations on the planet) makes the US a nation with one of the largest muslim populations – “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.” Your inability to understand a simple statement spoken in plain English does not make the speaker wrong. Too many of my countrymen are not bright. Challenge yourself develop an understanding of your world, don’t challenge the politicians to dumb down their statements and pander to your base emotions.
Obama is the least presidential President we have ever had. Stupid jokes, stupid statements, bows to royalty, kisses butt needlessly. Running up debt and socialist policies so fast that we will be a second world nation in the near future.
Obama was once Islamic Manchurian candidate, and now an islamic Manchurian president. He is now revealing his true color and what he stands for! Americans, be scarely.
the conditional is not an “obscure tense” … although it might be up for debate whether it’s a mood or a tense, anyway it’s a verb form of some kind… BUT we use it all the time. maybe most don’t worry about what it’s called, but “what would you do if…”, i mean it’s pretty common.
The USA will pass on the LARGEST DEBT to its Muslim people, so the USA as one of the Muslim Nations has the LARGEST DEBT. Maybe that is what our leader was referring too? Think about people!
Obama is Muslim so he wishes America to be Muslim also. The truth about Obama is finally coming out. He can’t wait to tell the world about his Muslim roots. This man should be impeached for fraud, he’s not the same person we elected. I don’t want a Muslim president. Obama is also a Communist who is destroying our economy while stupid liberals sit by and watch. Nationalizing the Auto Industry is anti-American, only in Communist nations does this happen. This will result in the job losess of 200,000 non-union workers in the dealer end. Funny but the State Run Media doesn’t mention that. We’ve been had.
I hate to say I told you so but I TOLD YOU SO.
Not quite sure how they teach math at Occidental, Yale or Harvard. Clinton wouldn’t even have been able to spin such stupid numbers. Regardless, we shouldn’t have anything to apologize for as a country. You pay the price to be the boss; other countries are just envious. This is coming from the same fellow who clearly asked that his middle initial not be used during the elections. Now this. He’s not my president.
Dr. Moon, you’re brilliant. You told us so? What did you tell us would happen that is in fact now happening? You would prefer to let the auto giants completely fail? That would save auto workers’ jobs how? Everyone else complaining about the debt – he inherited the largest debt ever, and had to somehow stop the worst recession since the Great Depression from becoming, in fact, another Great Depression – this requires spending. GWB entered the White House with a trade surplus and a budget surplus – Obama inherited the largest debt ever – I don’t think you’re placing the blame where it belongs. Quit being so intellectually lazy.
Sad American – there’s no need to “spin” the numbers – read my post 7 above yours
Liberals hate being called out into the light. Obama did his little dance in front of the cameras, pandering to the Muslims and liberals here do their little dances, offering up praise to their new messiah. Both were either unaware or ignoring that every Muslim over there would be just as happy to stand next to him with an explosive on their chest. When are you going to get it? They don’t like us because we are Christian. They never will, because America is Christian and will NEVER submit to their Muslim religion.
You can manipulate Obama’s speech all you want. You can interpret it all you want, make excuses or flat out insist that anything Obama says is right so you don’t need to make excuses. You can say that 42 out of 195 can be classified as “one of the largest”, if you want. But keep this in mind…while figures never lie, liars often figure.
Get real. 42nd out of 195 is “one of the largest” only if you believe that 3 inches is “one of the largest”. But I guess if you’re one of those “educated” liberals, that’s all you have to reassure yourself with, isn’t it?
I assume you’re making a clever innuendo that I have a small *****? 41 out of 195 – that’s top 21%.
“They” don’t hate us. Some hate us – and it’s not simply because we’re Christian. Their hatred, just like yours, comes from ignorance. We’ve raped their land and resources for centuries, growing rich while they remain dirt poor. We carved up their land into territories that failed to factor in geographical and cultural realities. They starve while we buy $20 organic treats for our dogs. Those who hate us are poor and uneducated and easily manipulated by firebrand Muslim mouthpieces – just like poor, uneducated Americans are manipulated by firebrand Republican mouthpieces who pander to the base emotions of the intellectually lazy. Most Muslims, like most humans of any religion, just want to live their lives. They don’t want the US to “submit” to their religion.
Thanks Chris you are so smart. You are great. You are the man.
I hope one day I can be as smart as you. Then I will go online and insult people to show how smart I have become. But until then, EAT A SACK OF SH_T
That’s what I’m talking about – our ignorant population’s refusal to engage their minds and educate themselves about the world in which they live. In and of itself, keeping yourself locked inside a limited world view is fine – just don’t attempt to enter into a discussion that bears on the nature of a complicated world of 6 billion people.
Kathleen, USA is not one of the largest Jewish countries, it is in fact the country with the largest jewish population in the world, at least double than Israel. And more than half of World’s Mormon lived in the USA, which it is also the biggest Scienthologist nation in the Earth. And if we take on account the latino illegal inmigrants jointly with the rest of american catholics, then the USA ranks second only to Brazil in Catholic population.
Chris: Yes. By trying to claim that top 21% is “one of the largest”, you have proven my point and confirmed everything I said. Thanks. As for the rest, I really don’t care.
The bottom line is that Obama was pandering in the name of America, in my name, in the name of every other person in this country, and a great deal of us simply do not feel the way he does. That makes it an insult, especially when he plays his politician games and mixes them liberally with half-truths and “conditional statements”…he makes the rest of us look bad. You liberals don’t see it because you are in love with him, you will allow him to play fast and loose with America’s reputation. You simply don’t care if he panders and grovels in front of the world, but in my eyes, the president of the United States shouldn’t pander or grovel to anyone. Therefore, this guy is an imposter, a “pretender to the throne” (throne…how apropos).
It engenders the worst of the liberal mindset, the mindset that feels guilty because the US is the best country in the world, and for some reason you think we don’t deserve to be. While we ain’t as good as we used to be (the Greatest Generation IS the Brave and the Free, and they are dying off) in fact we do deserve to be the best country in the world, and this **** of kowtowing and groveling is going to convince the rest of the world that we aren’t and don’t deserve to be. Tragically, it is this same liberal mindset that encourages dependence on the government (Obama’s government, Ghod help us).
I really don’t care if the muslims or the people in the Middle East feel slighted because they are poor, or if the only benefit of the land they are squatting on is that it was some sort of tropical jungle millions of years ago. The fact of the matter is that they WANT to be there, so they leave themselves in that position because of some silly religious superstition that makes that land so “special”. Poor? Hardly, their oil wealth makes them some of the richest people in the world…if their leaders screw their people out of the wealth and any God-given freedoms they should have, I really don’t care.
But when Obama grovels and scraps in front of our worst enemies from the podium of the President of the United States, I care. He doesn’t represent me, and he does not represent many of our citizens.
It’s BS to say that not all Muslims are our enemy, because they are as brainwashed as any religion, perhaps even moreso…they could turn on us very quickly. The poor and the ignorant are under control of the most radical of “firebrand” mouthpieces (radical Muslim clerics…pieces of shiite all of them).
So I don’t need my president up there dancing the “please forgive us” dance and convincing them that we are a pushover. And don’t try to push off any garbage on me that he’s not. We just saw him do it…again…and all the liberal media have given him a pass on it…again.
Oh, and one more thing…if it weren’t for Fox News, MSNBC and CNN wouldn’t have anything to talk about…they spend most of their time trying to obsfuscate and dilute the nasty little bits of truth about Dem screw ups that Fox airs. Hell, if it weren’t for upstanding pillars like Rush, Savage and Hannity, MSNBC wouldn’t have any ratings at all! They really only make rating points when they talk about them.
How do you know what you are talking about? You are expressing an opinion on a blog at 12:15am, that is fine and dandy. I was expressing my opinion in my first entry. I did not attack anyone. My point was the author stated that the words we’d be mean one could see. Two very different things.
Muslims always act like their the victim. I’m almost fifty years old and throughout my life the middle east is always at war with each other. Indonesia the largest muslim country on the planet is probably the worst place to live in if your not a muslim. Just ask those christians who live there. In Iraq, shites, sunni’s, kurds hates each other to the point of killing each other. The sad part they are all muslims. If it happens here, it will be like a Catholic killing a protestant or baptist. I know it happens in Ireland where Catholics were killing Protestant or vice versa. If Obama did say it. I hope it did not stirs up any hate groups to take drastic action against him.
I am always amused to see americans so intense in bringing down anything that is trying to find a way out of their mess, to see the people against the people there, black, white, brown and yellow. Americans have more than any other country in the world when it comes to living and living it well and yet they never seem to see a good thing going at any point. I see such educated men and women in americans who don’t know so much as to avoid small twitter amongst themselves to such an extent that they can even play down their presidents, not knowing the amount of pressure one man faces on todays’ world. If only americans were all together, believe me, they would then be more powerful than they could ever imagine, but alas!! Politics is such where even the pundits can justify it’s pitfalls now and then as it becomes so obvious to see and understand the ups and downs of political trends leaving the country to fester from…let’s say bad to worse. Huray! keep up the good job you americans.
….and every one of their rags we buy or pay any credence to..even in this format only serves to keep them around one more frikin day! Im sick completely to death with the liberties taken by these asses in the name of liberty!
Yeah, thats some funny s**t justice…..wish it werent so close to right…
“Pandering?” He’s trying to show that the US should be viewed as the great country it used to be and is capable of becoming again. Why does the US “deserve” to be “the best country in the world?” How is that possible? Mandate from heaven? The US has, at different times in its history, been the “best” country in the world – when it has attempted to lead by example and act according to the beliefs and high-minded ideals upon which it was founded. The US for the past 8 years said one thing while doing the exact opposite. It’s not “pandering” for the president – the nation’s highest-ranking diplomat – to attempt to have a dialogue with the rest of the world, to remind them that we are not simply a war-mongering, arrogant race of people who meddle in the affairs of others for our own gain. It’s not pandering for him to point out that we are humans just like they are, that our population includes Muslims just like them.
No country can lead by bullying while claiming to be the good guy, the guy wearing the white hat. If we want to lead the world, we need to engage the world’s population and show that we believe what we say and that we act according to our beliefs.
Your racist comments about Muslims, by the way, show that you don’t have any real understanding of the world. Do you know any Muslims?
Hmm, It is what it is. Are we back to the Clinton version of what is, is? Oboma said, ” And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslims Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. ” He is clearly saying that if you look at the number of “Muslim Americans” we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. You can’t get any more clear then that.
Here is the reality:
According to a 2007 survey, the following is the order of religious preferences in the United States:
Christian: (78.4%)
Protestant (51.3%)
Roman Catholic (23.9%)
LDS (1.7%)
Jehovah’s Witness (0.7%)
Orthodox (0.6%)
other Christian (0.3%)
no religion (16.1%)
Jewish (1.7%)
Buddhist (0.7%)
Muslim (0.6%)
Hindu (0.4%)
other (1.2%)
Ok. So there are some 195 countries in the world. If we consider the number of Muslims here in America, it would be the the 34th largest population of Muslims in the world. So, yes, President Obama is within a statistical accuracy regarding his hypothetical statement.
P.S. Obama is doing a far superior job than his predecessor about this whole Muslim/ West issue. I think its about time that logic, reason, and diplomacy guide our engagement rather than a “manifest destiny” sort of an ideology; especially when we are dealing with 1.5 billion people. And its about time that we start dealing with Muslims as human beings instead of having our president call them “facist islamists” or using an “us-against-them” rhetoric.
it is obvious that the majority of americans are opposed to Obama- thats why he needs to create citizens out of illegals because he thinks he can fool them- America is waking up- Acorn needs to be exposed; how sad to take medicare away from the very people who worked years and give it to those who wont work Mr Obama will not be able to hide the truth forever- its a sad day for America. ANd the bible does not change every year as one of this blog commented
Which country is home to the most Muslims?
The world’s fourth most populous country has the largest population of Muslims. Approximately 87% of Indonesia’s population are Muslims, so with a population of 216 million, Indonesia is home to approximately 188 million Muslims. The religion of Islam spread to Indonesia during the Middle Ages.
This arguement is simple to parse into right vs. left. Let’s take this point of view. What if Reagan or either Bush had said the same thing? The Dems would be calling for impeachment proceedings immediately.
Or what if a Republican had said “We must all turn our thermostats down, stop driving gas guzzling vehicles and eat less than we do.”?
Then, same said Republican cranks up the White House thermostat to Hawaii levels, fly’s a fleet of aircraft and limo’s to New York for a promised dinner date, orders $100 a pound Kobe beef for dinners with friends, and all payed for by taxpayers.
There would be howling and gnashing of teeth like never before heard. Liberals are, by far, the biggest group of HYPOCRITS to ever walk the Earth.
OBAMA = One Big Assed Mistake America.
(Hey liberals,……..how’s your job security these days??)
Hamza? Did you read what you wrote before you posted it? Obama said we HAVE the largest population of Muslims…not we are the34th largest population of Muslims in the world….am I reading what you wrote the right way?
What I love is when “Liberals” call out the “Right winged journalist” for winning or better yet “spreading lies and/or their version of the truth! However, my friendly liberals who love to call conservatives names every chance you get. I didn’t see any of you defending the honest conservative republicans during the much slanted media during the presidential campaign! Oh of course not, because heavens they couldn’t be honest. On No. Not Republicans. All republicans are shady liars like Cheney And Bush. We forget those one time awesome republicans like Martin Luther and Abraham. But getting back to my original point, It’s only when the media attacks it’s left winged socialist folks when the liberals come out, verbally slandering a blazing and whimpering along the way. Here is a news flash, there are right winged idiots and left winged idiots! There will always be a media outlet who will take a side. Doesn’t make them wrong, doesn’t make them right. It makes them great participants in the freedoms of the American Country. So stop pointing fingers. Ever hear the expression “Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones?” Well, if you haven’t, now you have!
Chris’ remarks make a lot of sense but they are incomplete as he does not know the Quran and its words. It is true most Moslems don’t hate us. I have been in several Muslim countries and saw the ordinary people. These ordinary people however, cannot live with the western religios and cultural beliefs. If you look at Muslims in America they live a very restricted life if they practice their religion. They must seperate themselves from American values to exist as a religion. Everything from swimware and cloths, to foods, to law, to how they relate to non Muslims clashes with some aspect of their religion. Most Moslems who come here want a better life for themselves and their children and work hard to build that life yet several posts from Muslems on this blog demonstrate the problem for our society and them. The Moslem religion is stuck in the 15th century because they believe thats when God spoke to them. Moslem religious and political beliefs are centuries behind Democractic values in the west, Christian or otherwise. For example, the way Moslem men relate to women is totally different that modern christian and legal beliefs in the west. Muslims treatment of women is based on the Quran. Children belong only to the father. Women should stay home hidden from the world in the name of modesty. Woman are restricted in what they can do and when they can do it in making a living. For example, in Iraq, war widows without family ties make temporary religious marriages of days or weeks to survive, exchanging *** for money and food as they have no other way of making a living. In a number of countries they are not permitted to leave the house without a related male accompying them. They can’t drive in Saudia Arabia. They must cover up for “modesty” even when its 110 degrees in the shade. In Egypt I saw that rural men were obsessed with *** because of this religious modesty complusion. They saw any western dressed woman as a ***** following them around hoping to catch a glipse of forbidden fruit. Problems extend beyond just women. In every modern Moslem country it is both legal and a Muslims duty to kill converts from the Moslem religion. It is illegal to spread any other religion in almost any Moslem country. Takeing a bible into Saudia Arabia or Sinapore could be a capital offense. Under Muslim religious law one stones to death people for adultry (Afganistan}, or having *** with the same ***{Sinapore}, or having *** when not married {Pakistan}, or just running away with someone your family does not like {Pakistan}. The court is the local religious leader with no chance of appeal, so if he (and it is only a he} does not like you its bye bye baby! For less serious crimes such as holding hands with someone of the opposite *** jail time would be warranted, yes this case was in a Kenya court. Here is another, “unless two males see another male rape a women and testifys to such in court a women can not bring rape charges as she could not testify.”{Iran}. She would also be guilty of immodest behavior worth several beatings or jail time. Apparently it is all the womens fault for not being modest enough. If we in the west lived with any of these beliefs and thought they were christian beliefs all the Muslim clerics over here would be in jail or executed by beheading and America would be a very different place. Our lefties claim our problems with this religion are because of our crimes in these countries but they were this way long before europeons and America arrived on the scene so the lefty argument does not hold much water. When a fellow Muslim questions the Moslem view of the Quran or the current interpertation of it some cleric always issues a license to kill. How can anyone not a Muslim live in such a world? I don’t have a solution and regardless of your religion we need to solve this problem or we will all be radoactive vapor.
I’m currently living in Singapore and spend every other weekend in either Indonesia or Malaysia. I’ve studied comparative religions, I’ve read the Koran, and I’m aware of the nature of Islam and its meaning in the everyday life of those who practice it (Singapore is 77% Chinese, and most of those people are either Buddhist or Christian, btw). Shari’ah law is indeed pretty harsh and not compatible with English/US common law jurisprudence. Even where this is the official stance, however, entire populations do not necessarily adhere strictly to its rules – just as most Christian-identified Americans don’t adhere strictly to the tenets of their religion. Either way, our goal should not be to change these cultures and make them culturally identical to us, but rather to engage them and try to lead by example, to show them how a democratic society can make life for all of its citizens as gratifying as possible. If we instead continue on a confrontational, us vs them course, then the natural reaction will be one of violence and distrust for every aspect of our culture, even aspects they would otherwise embrace.
For the record, I’m not “liberal,” or “left;” I just can’t stand closed-mindedness, narrow world views, and poorly thought out, reactive reasoning that’s lacking in common sense.
Yes, those that hate Obama will never accept anything he says. It’s called “diplomacy” when you talk and dont’ start with a threat. We are one Large muslim populated country, thusly attempting to build on the common ground there. I realize as brain washed republicans you prefer the “Jack Bauer” program where we shout “everybody down” and shoot and explode and kill to gain the trust of our adversaries. And that has worked so well the last 7 years!! OH, and God forbid you attempt to actually PAY for all that war and destruction with taxes…….the GOP likes to spend like a drunken sailor on shore leave, but, NOT to pay the bill. But, they LOVE to leave the tab to Democrats and then point out all the money they spend paying the bills.
They are like a crazy ex wife handing over the smoldering checkbook and then screaming at ya while you pay the bills.
Let’s talk about Dubya listing countries and calling them axis of evil and essentially threatening to “take care of” each. Well, two of them are NOW Nuclear, when they were NOT before the genius speechified.
Amen, Hardwroc!
Chris,
Not sure if you’re a US citizen, but if so, I chuckle at the irony of your current resident country..not the USA lol! I’m Canadian, in Canada. As neighbor to the US, close enough to see, but removed from the vacuum that is USA media/and propaganda to it’s own country, when Obama was elected, I felt very proud and optimistic for your country, because it meant that more than 50% of the people, decided to try something new. Which is smart. This also means that as ignorant and in the dark as the USA has been kept by it’s Government, people are waking up, asking questions, feeling hopeful, or hell – desperate enough that they’re willing to try anything.
So a genuine congrats on your messages, and to the USA. You’re all in it together guys!! If you understood how the rest of the world viewed your country, you’d be more proud of yourselves for electing Obama. Whether you like him or not, you’re actually not the most envied country in the world. Power and envy don’t always go hand in hand. But soon you will be once again. People ARE changing. Minds are asking questions, and that’s the first step on the path from ignorance. In fact Chris, the likely reason your post is only one of a few like it, out of all these more opposing opinions, is not because you’re a minority. The rest of the “Chris’s” out there, are out with their families on a hike, in yoga, reading a book or traveling to visit another cultures. Those at home on their computers, debating about topics, are looking for answers no matter how much they try to deny it – and it’s a really awesome thing to see!! And Chris if your posts give even one person new consideration on perspective – bless you!
Cheers all! The world is going to be a better place!
Obama said what he meant to say. he was trying to win favor with the Muslim countries he is visiting. But what he should have said is that in America we have freedom of religion, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc. are all welcome to worship as they please. that is what we stand for. he doesn’t need to show support for any religion over another, and besides he will be visiting countries that have tried their best to wipe out the nation of Israel, and in many cases does not allow Christians to worhsip freely. He doesn’t need to say that but by stressing our believes in freedom of religion it sets the record straight and makes the point he intended to make. of couse that would require thought, and besdies his teleprompter did not tell him to say that.
hardwroc – get a life. You are the one that is brainwashed. By the way, who is jack bauer? If we are such a terrible country and everyone hates us, why are they still trying to get here? bush made some mistakes, yes, as all presidents have, and will. But blaming Bush for NK going nuclear is not Bush’s fault. His efforts to stop them was stopped by liberals in congress and the United nations. even our friends refused to do anything, worrying what China thought. If he had his way, sanctions would have worked, but you can’t use sanctions by yourself. war be coming, but not because Bush did something wrong, it is because the rest of world refused to do anything. Check your history, WWII could have been prevented by showing force to Hitler, he even writes about it. Check your facts, and turn off CNN and MSNBC, both unrealiable and commentate istead of report the news.
jordan, i have friends in Canada, and I have lived in Canada. Who are you to speak about america. If it wasn’t for your location to the US, what would you be? Nothing! If you had to function as most countries do, without the wealth and great health care available so close by, what would you be. maybe a third world country. I am tired of canadians telling me about our country. I have been around th world, as has my son. the media around the world has one point of view, but the average European has a completely different viewpoint. Same goes for far East, and even russia. Given the chance many people would chose to live here, and you might be lucky enough to catch our overflow. By the way, thanks for the help in letting in the Terrorists on 9/11. Good job of security. we should ahve known not to trust your airport security.
Shucks, Jordan – thanks for the vote of confidence! I am a US citizen, and I was very proud of my country when Obama was elected.
I had been losing faith in my fellow Americans over the past 8 years, worried that the insular, confrontational, and xenophobic world view was going to define the new US for the foreseeable future. It was inspiring when we finally united to choose a president who is none of those things, but rather one who represents the ideals Americans grow up being told define us. I was impressed that we chose a man who did not pander to blind emotion, but who rather showed the inclination to think a question through and weigh his options, to act and answer with integrity and to hold firm to ideals higher than the desire to be elected to office.
Bruce – Jordan is a person on this planet engaged in a public dialog as to the politics of a nation so powerful that its actions affect the entire world; that’s who he/she is to speak about the US. Your post is a poignant example of the attitude of too many intentionally ignorant Americans – we do what we want and if anybody questions it we’ll bomb you too! Your point of view is right because you’re strong? Is that your point? Have you put any thought into any of your opinions? People want to live in the US for purely selfish reasons – they can make more money here and live a better life. This only proves that the US is wealthy, not that its policies aren’t loathed and entirely anathema to the ideals we pretend we stand for.
Well seems the rhetoric has rolled a bit from where I started reading. Anyway, Chris and Hardwich I like what you all had to say. Jordan , thanks for having faith in our nation to reform and your expectations of a better day for u.s. Michael, all of your description of Islamic nations is true. It is certainly no reason for us to hate them. As I saw in a previous post, it is a reason for us to promote harmony and lead by example.
A much earlier poster ‘Muslim’ attempted to make a point that all people of the Islamic faith aren’t terrorists and then took exception to society in the U.S. I was stationed in Turkey in the mid 70’s and traveled much of the mideast. I gained much respect for the common people. I was also aware of the rising Islamic fundamentalism-which was in it’s much earlier stages as this was before the Iran hostage situation. ‘Moslim’,– many of us know that ‘all’ Moslems aren’t terrorists. Your fervor and that of the people of your religion would have been much more useful if you had stood up and publicly condemned the Islamic terrorists that have caused much havoc in recent years. Sadly nary a word was spoken by your people and the only one’s vocal were the terrorists and their sympathizers. Please direct your dialog in that direction. It would be of much service to yourself,your religion, and the western world.
Reguarding President Obamas’s television on French TV yesterday, it was an attempt to show the Islamic world that we are a very diversified nation consisting of many many Moslems,with a moslem population more than some predominantly Moslem countries. Without doing fact checks vs numbers, I’ve heard here from even many opposition posters that we are anywhere from 30th-42nd in rank- which they claim certainly doesn’t make us ‘one of the largest moslem nations’. If you figure the amount of nations in the world, that does put us in the top 20% primarlily because of our size. That certainly would make us one of the top moslem populated nations. But in fact what Pres.Obama said was that “If…..That we’d(as in ‘we WOULD’ ) be one of the one of the largest Moslem countries in the world.” Not largest of Moslem countries. Largest in comparison with the rest of the world. A completely true statement.
It’s a shame there are many who take offense at the facts, all of which have NO bearing on this nation because the U.S. Constitution protects us from either being a “Christian” nation, “jewish” nation, Moslem” nation etc. I’m sure all of this is disheartening to those that like to make the claim that the U.S. is and was formed as a “Christian” nation because we are or were prodominantly “Christian”. That SHOULD cause much concern for those people, because under their definition what will we be- should the day come when there are more ‘Moslems” or Hindus, or Jews or Atheists in the U.S.? Certainly not any different. That SHOULD end the claim that we are a “Christian” nation. But I’m sure it won’t.
many of these comments, wether i agree or not are poorly written, inaccurate and without merit and facts, like the above mentioned story, and some are insightful, but efore writing a comment you should separate your opinions from facts before trying to portray yourselves as making an educated comment, especially Obama supporters, because you are may not be dumb but your grammar and comments are, it just proves or validates the assumtion of those who arent Obama supporters that he is dumb so he has dumb followers…
This is similar with what happened all over the world. Universal issue. Not only America. How islam spreading, how fanatic they are if we are talking about religion. I live in a country which has largest muslim population. It is starting absorbing christian minority by all means necessary. Including to marry a much as possible the unpracticed christian minority. In this case, OBAMA is not trying to give puzzle to his fellow American. Obama is not idiot. Obama is not scare about Muslim. Obama understood what he is talking about. The only problem is you american too late to know and understand Obama.
Amy, that’s one hell of a long run on sentence which doesn’t even BEGIN with a capital letter,includes mispellings, and a host other gramatical and syntax errors-for someone that came here to criticize others writing skills. Next, learn about SENTENCES! You’re a funny girl.
One thing for sure that if Obama claimed that USA is one of the Moslem states, then why they are killing innocent Moslem Talibans in Afghan. Bombing without feeling any guilty. Talibans as other Afghans, other Tribes has the right to live under the God’s sky as Americans do. I think war crime in Afghanistan should be immediately stopped, and all USA army should be called back to USA performing other useful things. I was made known that about 10% of Americans are homeless. USD100 billion allocated for Afghan war should be enough to built new home for the homeless people. One billion @USD40,000 each could produce 25,000 unit houses then USD100 billion, 250,000 unit of houses could be built. So, all Americans…, if you all are good people, prove it you are good, caring……
Barry Hussein Obama aka Barack Obama is not a confessed muslim, that is to say he does not openly admit to it. Clearly his past actions and most recent comments shows his loyalty to islam. When someone bows to heads of state of those that have attacked this country, calls America a muslim nation, openly supports the Palestinians’ against Israel that person is clearly a muslim. Not to mention his open acknowledgement of it in books he has written. I would liken him to the anti-Christ.
There is a hidden civil war in this country that has been going on for decades. Negros, blacks as they demand to be called, have an open agenda that if not submitted to by Caucasians’ results in burned cities, financial ruin, prison, and even death. It can be denied and denied again be it cannot be repudiated as it replete with evidence. Statistics clearly show a Caucasian person is (50) more likely to be the victim of a crime by a negro.
If a person even suggests negroes in this country are racist they are immediately labeled. Politicians avoid the topic like the plague; most are self serving cowards.
No matter what concession is given or what advantage is given the fundamental truth is nothing will be good enough. Remember the now famous quote by Michelle Obama “before this I was never proud to be an American”. How about the absolute fraud of Michael King, aka Martin Luther King Jr.? Calling Malcolm Little, aka Malcolm X a great person is an obscenity. He was a violent bully and convicted criminal thug.
American is a Christian nation that is under siege and it is past time for its people to stand against Satan’s forces that is islam. I believe Barry Hussein Obama is the shrouded leader of this effort in this country.
Why is it that progressives (an oxymoron…we just call ‘em neoliberals) have a such a problem with reading comprehension? Their propensity for being obtuse surprises even me.
No. Obama didn’t say we’re one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. But his statement derives the same way, because the conditional branch of his statement, “if” has been fulfilled. Therefore, the latter part of his statement is exactly as framed by wingnuts. There’s no ambiguity here, and splitting hairs about what he actually said, verses what his statement actually means won’t change that. In other words, the essence of his statement is that we really are one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.
This is in sharp relief to an earlier statement in which he basically says we’re not a Christian nation. Good grief, nutroots! Connect the dots.
BTW, I agree with both statements.
American Patriot….you are scary man! I was in Detroit when it burned and had to be moved from my burning neighborhood by military transport…check your history bud, can YOU tell me why it burned? I t was NOT because we stood up to the “black man”! Never mind..mindless, ill prepared, paraphrased bits and pieces of historic nonsense will not get us where we need to be. We, and mean WE need to understand before we embark on one more ill used day that we are all in this country, whether by choice birth or flight and we da*n well better come up with a way to function as a cohesive unit…as a country. The time is fast approaching when we will sorely wish we had. What matters a viewpoint whether political, religious, just or unjust if it serves only self? A more open rounder viewpoint by all in this country is long overdue. I had hoped to see this country become a more functional cohesive state of peoples united in the belief that we are all in this shi* together and NEED to create an environment for our babies to inherit before I leave this life. I will be dissappointed I see. Your biased, self serving racist outlook is obviously still in full voice and as poisonous today as it was a hundred years ago. Are we doomed to failure as a nation because of this..nah…we have suffered you for centuries…but we damn well may be because so many still refuse to mature from that type of view and grow into the nation we all wish we were. We as a people have access to more knowledge today than in all of our previous history…some use it to enlighten themselves and have found that as a country…we just aint all that…some to maybe find a solution or solutions to various plights, while still others hide from it in fear of what it may teach them. I gotta know patriot….what did you do with it? By the way, Im a 53 old WHITE man who by virtue of his lineman dad lived in literally every state in every social circle in every monetary pool America offers and NEVER had the luxury of choosing my circles, instead (as we all need to do now) I accepted my life and moves as my life, quickly made friends regardless of anything and loved every minute of the time I spent will all of those circles. What scares the hell out of me is that your points and point of view are still so very prevelant and that they are shared by so many! If we as a country worked as hard at acceptance and blending of others lives and cultures as we do at hanging on to outdated and utterly useless ideals this blog woudnt even exist!
Hey Chad, are you and Bill Clinton good friends? You sure need to know how to spin it. It is what it is!
Obama said, “And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslims Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.”
Which country is home to the most Muslims?
The world’s fourth most populous country has the largest population of Muslims. Approximately 87% of Indonesia’s population are Muslims, so with a population of 216 million, Indonesia is home to approximately 188 million Muslims. The religion of Islam spread to Indonesia during the Middle Ages.
Obama should have done his homework before speaking.
Main religious preferences of Americans
United States religiosity
religion percent
Christianity 78.4%
No religion 16.1%
Judaism 1.7%
Buddhism 0.7%
Islam 0.6%
Hinduism 0.4%
Other 1.2%
According to a 2007 survey, the following is the order of religious preferences in the United States:
Christian: (78.4%)
Protestant (51.3%)
Roman Catholic (23.9%)
LDS (1.7%)
Jehovah’s Witness (0.7%)
Orthodox (0.6%)
other Christian (0.3%)
no religion (16.1%)
Jewish (1.7%)
Buddhist (0.7%)
Muslim (0.6%)
Hindu (0.4%)
other (1.2%)
Thank you, Mira, for pointing that out. I stand corrected. That means Obama not only made the statement, he was lying when he said it. I do have to disagree with the first stat, however, since most people don’t know what a Christian is. Therefore, the stat must necessarily be weighted based on the ignorance of the majority. Have a great day.
Hey I was just wondering – how many people think that poor grammar and spelling of the English language, indicates that the author is uneducated? How many people think that poor grammar and spelling of English simply indicates that the author lacks education in writing English? Frankly, who cares whether someone’s spelling or grammar is right. It’s a discussion forum, not Harvard. Maybe he/she was locked in a basement for the last 20 years and just learned to read at age 40. Focus on what’s important and don’t be so damn critical, sheesh lol!
to say what I said – dude, did you know that in world travels, ‘Americans’ travel with Canadian flags on their backpacks, because they get better treatment? I think it’s hilarious, but truly, it says a lot. Second, I didn’t mean to imply that CANADA views the USA poorly – we know the USA is great. You (plural, not singular 
have education, resources and capability that tops the world list – they don’t say America is the most powerful country in the world for no reason. And yeah, basically Canada is a third arm haha, even we make fun of our own country for that. But my point was be careful not to put two feet into your mouth, cos you might not have a leg to stand on 
)
(And to the guy who basically said “who are you (I)” (paraphrasing, just to be clear
oh and PS Bruce, one thing I do have to say is unfortunately, your point about great health care being close by (I assume you’re implying USA’s health care) – Canada actually has a great health care plan, in comparison. Not that it’s *** for tat. It’s just funny that of all things you’d choose to take a leadership stance on, it would be health care.
PPS – Chris – Amen. (And I’m an Atheist lol).
“if you were to take the number of Muslims in America, then one could see America as ranking up there with other Muslim countries ”
If we were to “take?” As in “consider?” As in “no longer be ignorant about?”
It’s so strange that the far left was so quick to say that Mr. Obama is so intelligent, and so well-spoken, and yet, every time he says something truly stupid, they treat him like a child, saying things like “he didn’t really mean to say that,” or “here’s what he REALLY meant” as though their “well-spoken” President had suddenly lost the ability to speak well.
Huh.
I’m still waiting for an explanation of how we misinterpreted the number of States Mr. Obama believes is in the Union.
It’s funny – funny “strange,” not funny “ha-ha” – how people who so quickly, and even gleefuly, criticized our last President for every misspoken word now queue to defend this one…
I was among you criticizing Bush. Now we have another idiot President and I’m alone.
Who, indeed, are the racists?
Adding to the pile….I myself am quite upset with Obama’s statement. I won’t insult anyone, but REALLY?!?!? All he’s doing is improving our image? What he said was “America is not a Christian nation….blah blah…..we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world” What he did there, in case you didn’t see it, is put down one religion, and then put another one above it! It makes no difference if he’d said we’re not Taoist’s, we’re the biggest Hindu country. It’s the fact that he put down one (and obviously the dominant here) religion, to put UP a different religion (and we have less Muslim’s than a single given city in India, and a ridiculously smaller population than any Middle Eastern country).
tldr; He knocks down one religion, and makes a ridiculous claim supporting another.
Liberals are trying to spin Obama’s words. Good luck.
http://hyphenatedamericans.blogspot.com/2009/06/liberals-are-trying-to-spin-obamas.html
Why is our president making speeches with very sloppy words that can be “interpreted” in different ways? It’s funny how he strikes a very close resemblance to a typical propagandist, they’ll use slippery or big words to make sure that the populace gets caught up in the magic of the words without realising what the very strong implication was. By the way, I believe the USA is ranked 24th in the world for having Muslims. Correct me if I’m wrong though.
America WILL wisen up, so all you people out there with a real political education, there’s no need to worry. As soon as people realize what hunk of **** the media fenagled them into electing, a process which is slowed greatly by televisions love to degrade all conservatives for every mistake they commit, they will realize what this country always stood for and why conservative values are what America needs.
Isn’t it funny how a good dose of propoganda, a word liberals like to use to critize journalistic news that gives everyone a chance, can actually make people believe conservatism is bad. What is really wrong with being “CONSERVATIVE” anyway, as in not extreme, basic vocab people, damn
Ashley: “So his facts were actually wrong.
So what? He was trying to make the point that we have a lot of Muslims in the United States…”
So, the President LYING is OK with you so long as he’s “trying” to make a point??? This was a prepared speech, not an off-the-cuff comment. If he was WRONG (as you admit) it was an intentional lie.
You personify all that’s wrong with the Obama-adoring left…
One
Big
***
Mistake,
America…
The real problem here is that part of America cannot stand that a black man became president, Obama went for change, McCain went for the same, please people get a grip, everybody wants to put this man down anyway they can. How about uplifting him and show the world we can change and becaome the once powerful nation we used to be. Stop the crying and attacking, make our country better than what it use to be. Why is it that when Reagan was in office America did’nt have a field day in teh Iran-contra, or Cheny and Bush in their oil dealings. But because Obama is of a different color we ignore the rest. What a sad country we are, also if you don’t like the way things are run here go to another country and see how you do.
“Imagine if a Saudi ruler said Saudi Arabia was a Christian country. We’d think him an idiot. Get the point?”
No, I don’t. Saudi Arabia is a theocratic state governed by the Koran and Islamic law. The U.S. is a secular nation. If the U.S. was a theocratic state governed by the Bible or Vatican, the analogy would be appropriate. It isn’t.
And your comment about the left “going into a whirling tizzy” is kind of ignoring the whirling tizzy you guys on the right are doing right now over something that’s supremely ridiculous. We went into whirling tizzies over being lied into war, the failure to stop 9/11, the Saipan/Tom Delay repulsion, the insane incompetency of Donald Rumsfeld, and other things that, you know, actually mattered to people’s and nations’ economic and human rights realities. You guys are going into a “whirling tizzy” over a clumsy statement he made. Bush made a thousand of them; things that were both silly misstatements and some of them potentially dire omens of Constitutional violations; all the left did was laugh at the silly comment, put it on some websites, and forgot about it. You guys are practically calling for Obama’s impeachment. Do you really not see the corollary? Do you really not see how silly you look and sound?
6 million or 4 million or whatever number of Muslims actually reside in the U.S. – who cares? He was saying Islam is not alien to our country. Did he say it in a clumsy way; could he have chosen his words better? Definitely, I agree with that. I rolled my eyes a bit too, but I could see what he was getting at. Could Bush when he said “I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family” “Is our children learning” “I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully” or about 500 other Bushisms I could name? Sure could. People, even Presidents, are not perfect. They can’t and shouldn’t be expected to be. He made a speaking error. Get over it. It doesn’t mean he’s going to put your wife into a burqua and demolish all our churches and build mosques in their place.
“I wish Barack Obama would follow the Bible”
I’m sure glad he doesn’t, and no president – or citizen – should. Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not commit adultery, etc; these are all commonsense laws that 99% of human societies have developed and follow with or without the benefit of Christianity. Putting people to death for homosexuality, adultery – good Christian doctrine right there. Cherrypicking the Bible isn’t something God wants you to do. I don’t think He would allow you to follow what you think is okay and ignore the rest.
We are a secular society and we should be. Get used to it.