The Morning Plum
* Obama’s national security team divided over the way forward in Afghanistan as they prepare to meet today.
* GOP Senators gear up to blast Obama if he approves anything less than 40,000 new troops.
* CNN poll: Fifty-six percent oppose sending more troops; only 42% support an increase.
* Question of the day: Who will emerge in as the broker of a compromise in the Senate on abortion, much as Chuck Schumer did on the public option?
* Ben Nelson: If the Senate bill turns out to be “bad” like the House one, “I won’t vote to move it. For sure.” Posturing much?
* Aides to Harry Reid say he wants to vote to move the health care bill to a debate before Thanksgiving. You got two weeks…
* If he doesn’t deliver, Dems will be again forced to face constituents — without a bill — during the week-long Thanksgiving break, and Republicans are already planning to revive the town halls.
* Gallup: Republicans take lead in generic ballot matchup; if 2010 were held today there would be “strong Republican showing.” Will passing health care reform shift dynamic back in favor of Dems?
* And Rupert Murdoch doesn’t think Obama’s a “racist”; he just thinks Obama said something that was racist.
What else is going on?
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I seem to recall a time, long ago, that if members of Congress didn’t getting 100% behind the President’s decision about war, they were unpatriotic, blame American first, traitors.
Oh yeah, that was 2003.
It sure would be nice if Republicans stopped using the men and women of our armed forces as political props. They deserve better.
BBQ — good point. Might be worth pulling some quotes from people saying the commander in chief’s decision has to be backed at all costs.
Yes, please do give us all those quotations where Replublicans said anyone who didn’t get 100% behind the war they was an unpatriotic traitor. I can’t think of any.
I can, however, think of Al Gore shrieking that George Bush betrayed his country. Is that the same as being an unpatriotic traitor? I can think of a Dem House member accusing Bush of sending soldiers to die for his own amusement. I can think of Moveon and General Betrayus. I can think of the Dem dogma that Bush intentionally “lied” to justify war. Remember “Bush lied, people died”? Blood for oil, Halliburton, secret GOP conspiracy of war profiteers? Ring any bells?
I can also remember the good humor of the Kerry campaign having buttons that identified Bush and Cheney as part of “Asses of Evil.” I can remember Howard Dean saying that Republicans represent evil.
Mr. Sargent:
“Obama’s national security team divided over the way forward in Afghanistan as they prepare to meet today.”
On one hand you’ve got the SecDef, the Chairman of the JCS, and even the UberFrauFuhrer SecState favoring a buildup.
On the other hand you’ve got the Rahm CoS, who has already made noises about going back to an elective office, and the “idiota di tutti idioti” , Joe Biden singing “Give Peace a Chance”.
You tell me who the Alleged Hawaiian is going to go with.
It also bears keeping in mind that if the Moonbat Messiah doesn’t cough up the troops that his hand-picked commander requested, McChrystal might just resign…and think how THAT would play out politically.
Here was Obama last year attacking John McCain’s patriotism and courage, of all mindboggling things:
“John McCain likes to say that he’ll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell. But he won’t even go to the cave where he lives.”
John McCain, unpatriotic cowardly traitor, according to Obama, insufficiently committed to war in Afghanistan and getting OBL.
That is how we interpret such statements, correct?
“You tell me who the Alleged Hawaiian is going to go with.”
It seems that unrepentant bigots get an early start when it comes to their clumsy trolling.
i wish McChrystal would resign or that Obama would fire him.
I don’t trust him.
So how it would look to me is really good if McChrystal resigned.
““John McCain likes to say that he’ll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell. But he won’t even go to the cave where he lives.”
Nice try. That isn’t Obama attacking McCain’s patriotism, its simply calling out his extremely idiotic war strategy. Being a war hero doesn’t shield you from legitimate criticism. Man, you republicans couldn’t find tittts in a whorehouse.
Bilgeman…you are an idiot…there aren’t 40,000 troops to send even if he approves it.
SBJ/QB..and others besides bilgey who at least ATTEMPT to maintain a shred of credibility…here is a great example of why your party of Repubs has zero credibility except with losers who accept outright lies…Ruth Marcus was nice enough to catalogue just some of the lies and distortions in the House debate on HCR…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/10/AR2009111013406.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
Again you right wing losers…these are not simply biased viewpoints or even distortions…THEY ARE ABSOLUTE LIES…and I know..like the petulant little children you are…you’ll have to find somewhere in the past where you believe in some false equivalency of Democrats lying…Faux and the Repubs are the party of Joe Wilson..and to Joe and the rest of you idiots I say…YOU LIE!!!!
“I can also remember the good humor of the Kerry campaign having buttons that identified Bush and Cheney as part of “Asses of Evil.” I can remember Howard Dean saying that Republicans represent evil.”
I’m sure that’s something that you pulled out of your diseased buttcrack. That said, I do remember that republicans openly mocking John Kerry’s purple heart at the RNC. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/30/gop.purple.hearts/
FOX news fact checks Palin’s “In God We Trust” mental meanderings and…I just don’t know what the world is coming to anymore when even FOX sees fit to batter further this poor woman
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/even-fox-news-fact-checks-palins-claims-about-dollar-coin.php?ref=fpb
“And Rupert Murdoch doesn’t think Obama’s a “racist”; he just thinks Obama said something that was racist.”
Are we going to be told what the comment was, or do we just have to guess?
“. That said, I do remember that republicans openly mocking John Kerry’s purple heart at the RNC. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/30/gop.purple.hearts/”
O so do I and they were ever so proud.
I can’t understand why they get upset over Tea Bagging since they flashed those bandaids with great big grins.
Especially that great big beyotch from Texas who had one on her first of 4 chins.
Sullivan points to Yglesias on Snowe’s future…
“This means that when you’re thinking about whether Snowe will support a bill or not, the issue ultimately comes down to not triggers versus non-triggers, or employer mandates versus free rider fees, but whether Snowe wants to remain a Republican or not. Based on this polling, a Snowe who votes for a comprehensive health care overhaul is basically not going to be viable as a GOP primary candidate. Conversely, a Snowe who votes for comprehensive health reform and switches parties would remain a very popular general election candidate with a safe seat.” http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/maine-republicans-want-conservative-challenger-to-snowe.php
A bit OT but appropriate I believe…today is Veterans Day and so I salute all of our Veterans but mostly the men and women who are currently serving, struggling through the bungled foreign policy left by the Bush Admin.
I hope the Prez is smart enough to pull the plug and stop the madness.
A report on 60minutes this week showed that cyber security is a huge weakness that China, India and some other nations who we consider competitors have exploited. And so while we are chasing the bearded rascals of Afghanistan..other much larger, more powerful companies are stealing all of our intellectual property and fing up our financial system…something that could truly HARM our nation.
In a side note…Obama’s OFA certainly has some clever geeks in charge of their operation…talk about attention to detail…as a Vietnam Vet I received a Thank You email from the Pres this morning. I appreciated the thanks…but more than that I appreciate attention to detail and competence…something totally missing for 8 years in our nation!!!
“but more than that I appreciate attention to detail and competence…something totally missing for 8 years in our nation!!!”
Word.
ANd thanks to you for your service.
“* Gallup: Republicans take lead in generic ballot matchup; if 2010 were held today there would be “strong Republican showing.” Will passing health care reform shift dynamic back in favor of Dems?”
This doesn’t make any sense. A large majority wants the troops home – the GOP doesn’t. A large majority wants health care reform with a public option. The GOP doesn’t. A large majority agrees with cap and trade – the GOP doesn’t.
How come then people are going to turn around and give their votes to the GOP? I don’t get it.
What comment did Obama make that was racist? He has never made a racist comment. Murdoch is an idiot.
If Democrats don’t pass health care reform there will be a bloodbath in 2010 for Democrats WILL stay home.
Reid is working on a 2010 Jobs bill for the Senate.
Why is Reid allowing the Senate to go home for one week for Thanksgiving? Perhaps because the Senate won’t be going home in December for they have just too much stuff to do.
Gallop doesn’t provide its internals, but my guess is that as more and more people (especially teabaggers) refuse to describe themselves as Republican, that Gallop and others end up with right-skewed results, simply by looking for a representative sampling. “Independent” never meant centrist, but now it really doesn’t. And while these teabag independents may hate Republicans for the way they govern, they don’t actually disagree with them on anything. They merely want someone who’s competent with a magic wand.
And Steven Benen finds a compelling notion from John Cole…
“The funny thing about all of this is that no matter how bad all their ideas are, no matter how disastrous their governance has been, no matter how many horrible things they have done to the economy and this country, what really is killing the Republican party is that deep down, they are just complete ********.” http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=29573
That would be “a$$holes”
Bernie – exactly so!
All you have to do is watch that vid of male GOP shouting down one woman representative after another to get that.
Thanks for your thanks Tena…It’s funny but it’s almost as if I feel I never served my country.
When I returned and went back to school on the GI Bill I was wearing an old fatigue jacket one day only to have a young girl scream baby killer at me.
We would like to think those days have passed and largely they have…but I must confess I still can’t get past ***** bilgey denigrating the troops who served in Vietnam as “losing” the war..as if it were there faults and then even going so far as to make fun of the Vietnam Memorial in DC. Business takes me to DC annually and I have visited that Memorial every year and am moved everytime I do so.
Because I was stationed in Bein Hoa inside a well fortified base and not in the jungle…I suffer not from PTS but from guilt that other guys did what I didn’t and so in a very real way I feel guilty about calling myself a Vet. But it could be a lot worse…I could have come out as f’ed up as bilgey.
“I’m sure that’s something that you pulled out of your diseased buttcrack.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/mar/11/20040311-085528-7369r/
Check your facts first and you wouldn’t look so foolish.
THK also explicitly called Republicans unAmerican. But then that’s nothing new for Dems.
I can remember Howard Dean saying that Republicans represent evil.
And given the very long-standing general assessment that warmongering is in fact evil, Dean’s comment is no surprise.
And here you can peruse famous sayings of Howard Dean, including Republicans as evil and hating Republicans.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Howard_Dean
No matter how many times I post links to these statements, some fool like you here continues to deny them.
rukidding – “PTS but from guilt that other guys did what I didn’t and so in a very real way I feel guilty about calling myself a Vet. But it could be a lot worse…I could have come out as f’ed up as bilgey.”
Still, you didn’t come home untouched – nobody does, I don’t think.
And of course the troops didn’t lose Vietnam – the government lost that war by getting involved in the first place.
“And here you can peruse famous sayings of Howard Dean, including Republicans as evil and hating Republicans.”
SO WHAT?
The Repuglicans ARE EVIL. Now shut about it = I’m sick of death of the childish bs about who said what about whom.
Jon Stewart on Hannity and FOX’s non-ceasing scumbaggitude… http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200911100063
Even Washington insiders are getting sick of the Senate:
Steven Pearlstein – Want real reform? Let’s start with Congress.
“So at the risk of sounding naive, I’d like to offer a novel idea for changing the legislative dynamic, restoring majority rule to the legislative process and keeping health reform alive: Debate it on the Senate floor.
“That’s right, forget about spending another six weeks searching for those elusive 60 votes to break a filibuster, going back and forth with weak-kneed centrists like Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu who can’t seem to decide what they really want, or self-righteous egotists like Joe Lieberman, who thinks he can call all the shots. If they have suggestions for improving the bill, let them do it the old-fashioned way: propose an amendment on the floor and see if they can get 49 other senators to agree.”
Harold Meyerson – Harold Meyerson on the Senate’s sluggish pace – washingtonpost.com
“A catastrophic change has overtaken the Senate in recent years. Initially conceived as the body that would cool the passions of the House and consider legislation with a more Olympian perspective, the Senate has become a body that shuns debate, avoids legislative give-and-take, proceeds glacially and produces next to nothing.
“The problem, in part, is that Republicans have routinized the filibuster. They have given their leader, Kentucky’s Mitch McConnell, the power to bring virtually all legislation to a halt. Earlier this month, Senate Republicans blocked consideration of an extension of unemployment insurance. When they finally let it come to a vote, the measure passed 98 to 0.
(snip)
“At least three Democratic senators — Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, Louisiana’s Mary Landrieu and Nebraska’s Ben Nelson — haven’t even agreed to vote to permit health-care legislation to come to the floor. They may believe it’s in their interest to come across as slowing down the process (which is already flowing with all the speed of molasses on a winter day). But it is surely not in the nation’s interest to have one of its two legislative bodies dead set against legislating, which is the absurd reality the three are reinforcing.”
Get on with it. Even the Village is noticing.
“Check your facts first and you wouldn’t look so foolish.”
Posting links and then clumsily stating “check your facts” don’t an argument make. Rather, it makes the person doing so look like a drooling lunatic who spent 8 years stroking Bush’s shaft and drinking the proverbial man gravy.
“THK also explicitly called Republicans unAmerican.”
They are. Ok? They hate democracy. They hate voting. They hate the constitution. They hate the rest of the country.
They are worse than I can say.
Keep posting on this and I’ll keep agreeing because whatever has been said hasn’t been enough.
The 8 years the GOP was in charge was an UNMITIGATED DISASTER.
And for every post you put up complaining about someone on the left calling you names, I’ll prove the names are an understatement.
qb,what’s wrong with those Dean quotes?
Can’t take a punch I see?
Republicans are so fragile.
“Republicans are so fragile.”
They lead with the chip that is permanently attached to each one of their shoulders.
So delicate.
Everyone catch this clip on The Daily Show displaying how Hannity the perpetual liar showed clips of the 9/12 teabagger party and tried to pawn it off as the teabagger get together the other Saturday where Americans for Prosperity bused in a bunch of Republican activists?
Indefensible.
I missed this from TPM
“Today in fun word choice, from Politico: “Few political observers or elected officials doubt that an energized GOP has a headwind at its back.””
The gender portion of Republican assholeness… http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/11/republicans-far-behind-on-women.html
““Few political observers or elected officials doubt that an energized GOP has a headwind at its back.”””
roflmao!
“The Repuglicans ARE EVIL. Now shut about it = I’m sick of death of the childish bs about who said what about whom.”
Then you should probably be yelling at Greg and BBQ for starting the trip down “memory” lane of the bad old days when Republicans supposedly called all Dems unpatriotic traitors.
I am tired of your inanities, too, so I guess you should shut up. Word?
Democrats must not be “hoodwinked and fooled” into an abortion fight that does not really exist! We should be smarter than that… We must keep our “eye” on the Prize — the long awaited and wished for Goal of healthcare for all Americans and lower premiums for those who are already insured. Democrats have a chance to lead by actually doing something good for Americans — like health care, which is tied to the deficit and the bankrupting of businesses and families. We must keep our “eye” on the Prize and not be labeled with the title of another “do nothing Congress”!
GOP politicians and operatives continue to dishonestly and deceptively say that they cannot support a public option, they claim that they want to keep costs down for the American people! Really? This they claim all the while knowing that a public option/competition is the only way to really control cost and to bring about true reform thereby putting a definite Halt to the “out of control” medical costs and premiums crippling people and businesses today, making it harder and harder for average Americans and young people to realize and take advantage of the slowly, slipping away American Dream. One could ask themselves, If you happen to lose your job today or tomorrow in these unstable economic times and at a time when we currently do not have healthcare reform for all, who would pay you or your familiy’s health care costs, that is, if you are lucky enough to be able to see a doctor without insurance? This American Dream, now being called Socialism by the GOP has slowly been slipping away, and is in the last throes of dying, if we do not forge a new path onwards toward inclusion and cooperation for all. This dream of America will die to be replaced with just another third world country — only to go by the wayside and into the history books as another failed experiment.
All, check this out:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/political-media/poll-solid-majority-worried-about-backlash-against-muslims-in-military/
“Republicans are so fragile.”
Nope, just pointing out that it is your side that routinely utters these calumnies. I realize you are depraved, as are Howard Dean and THK, so your insults mean nothing to me or other Republicans. I just like to keep the record straight as to who the depraved are — that being you.
Hey Greg,
I know you probably have better things to do but if you have the contact info for Rupert Murdock could you kindly get in touch with that spox and ask for the exact statement that Murdock is claiming was racist? Thats the one thing that needs to be put on the table before this story is put to bed and if it was up to me I would have somebody call there every day and ask for the exact statement by President Obama that Murdock is claiming was racist until they finally had to admit that both Murdock and Beck were full of sh*t OR they became a bigger joke than they already are.
But hey I am an a hole like that.
“Posting links and then clumsily stating “check your facts” don’t an argument make. Rather, it makes the person doing so look like a drooling lunatic who spent 8 years stroking Bush’s shaft and drinking the proverbial man gravy.”
Pity for you Newt, shown to be uninformed and full of bs, you have nothing to say in your defense but a crude locker room insult.
Btw, that wasn’t an “argument”; it was just a factual source showing that you were factually in error.
“Pity for you Newt, shown to be uninformed and full of bs, you have nothing to say in your defense but a crude locker room insult.”
Getting a decorum critique from the likes of you is like getting dating advice from a rapist – most of your droolings include flat out lies, smears, and garden variety clumsiness usually exhibited by mentally handicapped glue-sniffers.
“Btw, that wasn’t an “argument”;
You are right, you didn’t provide an argument.
QB,
Why can’t you admit that the Republican Terrorist Party has made a concerted effort — over the last three DECADES — to discredit the Democrats on national security for the GOP’s political gain?
Can you at least admit to that basic fact?
“Then you should probably be yelling at Greg and BBQ for starting the trip down “memory” lane of the bad old days when Republicans supposedly called all Dems unpatriotic traitors.”
This inbred foolishness from quarterback is the easiest to debunk because the President of the United States implied as much in a speech that he gave. Check out this Bush gem: In a speech taking on war critics, he said that said criticism sent “..the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America’s will,” Booyah!
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/11/12/president_steps_up_attack_on_war_critics/
Ethan, he won’t admit anything, he’s still blaming Clinton, Fannie, Freddie and Frank for the economic meltdown, and oh yeah, Bush spent too much.
Bob Burnett says it better than I can qb and I’m well aware this is an opinion piece, but it’s one I happen to agree with.
“Bush promoted a national culture of profligacy. After 9/11, when asked how Americans should respond, he advised us to “go shopping.” Rather than call on our patriotism, the President appealed to consumerism; citizens responded by running up huge credit card debts and dipping deeply into their home equity. During the Bush Administration, Americans borrowed $6.2 trillion, doubling their debts and causing the U.S. to have a negative savings rate.
At the same time, the President expressed absolute confidence in the wisdom of the free market and expanded the dangerous deregulation begun during the Clinton era. Among the consequences of Bush’s extreme laissez-faire ideology were the accelerated flight of decent-paying jobs from the U.S. and pillaging of the environment. As Americans shopped until they dropped, financial-sector profits surged: by 2007 the finance industry represented a record 25 percent of US stock-market capitalization.
Aided by the loosening of regulations, banks such as Citgroup, broadened their scope of business and began to engage in a wide variety of financial activities. With this expansion came problems of control and oversight. The increased size of financial institutions made them more difficult to manage as executives were pressed to make profits beyond the range historically associated with banks.
At Citigroup, earning pressure caused bond traders to increase their participation in risky markets, particularly collateralized debt obligations (CDO’s), which repackaged mortgages – notoriously sub-prime mortgages – for resale to investors. The expansion of this niche business was fueled by its profitability – fees were unusually high and, therefore, traders made million in bonuses – and the lack of oversight. Because of deregulation, there was no Federal oversight of the CDO marketplace. Financial industry supervision supposedly came from rating agencies, such as Moody’s and Standard and Poor’s, but they failed to exercise the required due diligence. So did internal auditors, such as Citigroup “risk managers;” who were impeded both by the Byzantine nature of CDO’s and their perceived value as major earnings generators.
As the credit bubble grew, two pernicious moral propositions blinded top managers at Citigroup and other greedy banks to the ever-increasing probability of calamity: everyone else is doing it, so it must be okay and the ends justify the means . Over the course of the Bush Administration, the worldwide CDO market grew to near $500 Billion, resulting in gigantic executive bonuses and corporate earnings. Understandably, none of the participants was eager to jump off the gravy train.
Lurking behind this frenzied momentum was a naïve faith in the wisdom of the marketplace: the belief that whenever excesses occurred, the market would gracefully adjust. Recently, financier George Soros criticized “the prevailing theory of financial markets, which… holds that financial markets tend toward equilibrium and that deviations are random and can be attributed to external causes.” He observed: “This theory has been used to justify the belief that the pursuit of self-interest should be given free rein.”
“Why can’t you admit that the Republican Terrorist Party has made a concerted effort — over the last three DECADES — to discredit the Democrats on national security for the GOP’s political gain?”
Why can’t you read or follow basic analytical reasoning?
The charge was that Republicans called anyone who didn’t support the Iraq 100% an unpatriotic traitor.
Republicans have called out Democrats for weak and misguided and foolish foreign policy, which isn’t exactly the same thing, now is it.
Democrats have attacked Republicans as ideological war-mongers who would destroy the world (Reagan) or unAmerican war profiteers and traitors (Bush).
Newt,
No, it wasn’t an etiquette lesson, it was merely a demonsration that you are a mental dwarf who makes foolishly untrue factual claims. Which demonstration you couldn’t and didn’t contest.
“begun during the Clinton era.”
sgwhite – that’s the only thing in that piece you posted I take issue with.
this all began during Reagan’s Administration. That’s what the airlines, finally.
“Which demonstration you couldn’t and didn’t contest.”
Well if I start listing all the things you’ve never contested, we’d be here all week.
You didn’t bother to contest my assertion that the 8 years the GOP was in charge were an unmitigated disaster.
I take it that means you agree.
rukidding:
“Thanks for your thanks Tena…It’s funny but it’s almost as if I feel I never served my country.”
Really? You don’t say. You should examine that feeling a little more closely.
“When I returned and went back to school on the GI Bill I was wearing an old fatigue jacket one day only to have a young girl scream baby killer at me.”
Well, here you are, 40 years later, kissing that same young girl’s behind. Have you ever asked your little playmate Tena what SHE was doing during the Viet Nam war?
I don’t want your thanks, you loser.
You nauseate me.
“No, it wasn’t an etiquette lesson, it was merely a demonsration that you are a mental dwarf who makes foolishly untrue factual claims.”
..this coming from the ****** nozzle who cowardly dodged my link where Bush insinuated that war critics were unpatriotic. Mental midget indeed.
QB, why can’t you admit to basic facts about the Republican Terrorist Party?
Has the Republican Terrorist Party been right about everything?
Has the Republican Terrorist Party been right about the Iraq War?
Has the Republican Terrorist Party been right about the Afghanistan War?
Has the Republican Terrorist Party captured or killed Bin Laden or Zawahiri?
Has the Republican Terrorist Party been right with their Pakistan strategy?
Has the Republican Terrorist Party been right with respect to Abu Ghraib, Guantanimo, Torture?
Has the Republican Terrorist Party been right about their reliance on for-profit mercenaries like Blackwater?
Has the Republican Terrorist Party been right about the WMDs in Iraq?
Could go on and on and on………
“Really? You don’t say. You should examine that feeling a little more closely.”
It always takes some republican, probably with a sordid history of cowardice and wetting themselves during confrontations, to clumisly psychoanalyze people who served this country honorably.
“Well, here you are, 40 years later, kissing that same young girl’s behind. Have you ever asked your little playmate Tena what SHE was doing during the Viet Nam war?”
This was one “lets see how many lazy assumptions I can pull out of a backside”-athon. Weak.
“You nauseate me.”
Keep your wife’s pillowtalk private, we don’t need to hear that.
“..this coming from the ****** nozzle who cowardly dodged my link where Bush insinuated that war critics were unpatriotic. Mental midget indeed.”
LOL, yeah, sorry, I forgot that link to that terrible, awful “insinuation.”
The claim was that Republicans called anyone who didn’t support the war 100% unpatriotic traitors.
When you find Bush having said that, do let me know. I’ve given you examples of your side making such statements.
Now I’m just wondering how many times you can lose this argument and remind everyone one of it.
Looking forward to your answers to all of my questions.
Otherwise, you are just weak on defense and a coward.
“You didn’t bother to contest my assertion that the 8 years the GOP was in charge were an unmitigated disaster.
I take it that means you agree.”
Please try to read the comments you are talking about before saying stupid things like this. He made a specific factual assertion, which I disproved. In response he called me names.
That’s just how you liberals roll.
Imsinca,
Your explanation now keeps shifting, and that hit piece is pretty misinformed and flimsy stuff. You said before Bush caused the meltdown by deregulating banking and cutting taxes.
Now you quote some guy claiming he caused it by telling people to go shopping. Seriously? He made a comment as part of encouraging people not to panic. Now you loons are suggesting that the whole country went on a seven year spending frenzy in response? Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
The column makes the specific claim that Bush helped cause the collapse by deregulating CDOs. I would like to see the support for that. Since you are the economic experts perhaps you will condescend to provide some.
“LOL, yeah, sorry, I forgot that link to that terrible, awful “insinuation.””
Nervous laughter aside, let me re-write the following:
<>
“The claim was that Republicans called anyone who didn’t support the war 100% unpatriotic traitors.”
That is cowardly semantics dodge. Do you want me to find a link where he said that people were “100% unpatriotic traitors” while wearing a maid’s outfit and speaking in a french accent? Yeah, the basic reading comprehension of a special needs toddler proves that Bush suggested as much. I mean, you can’t be a coward your whole life. Can you?
“Now I’m just wondering how many times you can lose this argument and remind everyone one of it.”
I’m wondering how many times you can get your *** handed to you and look like a pair of geriatric titts in the meanwhile.
(From the above comment)
Nervous laughter aside, let me re-write the following:
Check out this Bush gem: In a speech taking on war critics, he said that said criticism sent “..the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America’s will,” Booyah!
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/11/12/president_steps_up_attack_on_war_critics/
Newt:
“It always takes some republican, probably with a sordid history of cowardice and wetting themselves during confrontations, to clumisly psychoanalyze people who served this country honorably.”
You’re late to this party, moonbat.
His service was honorable, and I never claimed otherwise, but it is what he did and has done AFTERWARDS that is dishonorable.
I was a Marine Grunt, and it doesn’t take a rocket-scientist to see where this moonbat’s head is at:
“Because I was stationed in Bein Hoa inside a well fortified base and not in the jungle…I suffer not from PTS but from guilt that other guys did what I didn’t and so in a very real way I feel guilty about calling myself a Vet. But it could be a lot worse…I could have come out as f’ed up as bilgey.”-rukidding
So here’s a guy who, through luck of the draw, was a REMF Pogue. suffering from survivor guilt because he wasn’t wading around in the boonies.
It’s a nonsensical guilt trip though, since the fire bases and logistic bases were under just as much attack as the aero-rifle platoon boys leaping out of Hueys and Chinooks. He may have not have had to deal with little yellow people running around with SKS and AK’s, but the NVA and VC had some VERY competent mortarmen and rocket shooters.
And it should be remembered that the first guys to buy the farm in the Tet offensive were…the cooks…since they were the ones who were awake at ungodly zero-dark-thirty hours when Mr. Charles struck.
But this IS a psychological problem.
His response though, is to transfer his bummer to the entire war effort, now and forever, and embrace the very kinds of people who heaped **** on his head for doing his duty.
The weak mentality of a loser.
And it is thus that he shames himself and dishonors the sacrifice of the lads whose names are on the Viet Nam wall. He gives aid and comfort to the same kinds of scum that celebrated every US combat death in Viet Nam.
Right now the Pentagon is trying to give the troops a year off for each year they spend in Iraq/Aghanistan. Are there 40,000 troops that have had their year off? I don’t think so. So why isn’t the GOP “supporting the troops?” I really, really get the idea that the GOP has the same attitude toward the troops that Henry Kissinger did,
“Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.”
~ Henry Kissinger
The only difference is that the GOP prefers to use them as a means to enrich themselves through outsourcing all the support functions that the military has always done for itself and by selling material to the Pentagon at “cost” plus 10%.
And while we’re on the subject, why should the service men and women even have to have more than one tour of duty? During the Viet Nam debacle on the Democrats’ watch no one spent more than a year there unless they came forward and volunteered for another tour. And you certainly didn’t have a stop-loss order forcing service people to involuntarily extend their tours! Now tell me which of the two major political parties supports the troops and which one doesn’t give a darn about them except as tools to be used. And let’s not get into which party cuts VA appropriations to “be fiscally responsible” and which one has consistently restored the cuts. That would just be rubbing salt into the wounds.
Bilge, thank you for serving our country.
Why do you obviously hate the country you served so admirably?
Ethan:
“Why do you obviously hate the country you served so admirably?”
I’d ask you the same question, but tmk, you’ve never served.
Newt,
Only to an idiot or dishonest demogogue — take your pick — is what Bush even an “insinution” that anyone who failed to support the war 100% an unpatriotic traitor. Like it or not, that is the charge your comrade made above and that you are so fecklessly trying to defend. He didn’t, so why should you?
But let’s dispense with the idiot explanatoin and just establish that you are a plain old liar. Here is how Bush is actually quoted in the article you linked:
“”While it’s perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began,” Bush said in a speech commemorating Veterans Day. ”The stakes in the global war on terror are too high — and the national interest is too important — for politicians to throw out false charges. These baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America’s will.”"
And as the article reports, this was in response to vicious attacks by Dems claiming that Bush intentionally lied to justify a criminal war. I believe that was right around the time that Gore shrieked that Bush had betrayed the country.
In response Bush said criticism and disagreement were perfectly valid and legitimate, but baseless attacks on him as a liar, and attempts to rewrite history to smear him for political gain sent a bad signal.
So you are a liar. That’s the bottom line.
Oh, and saying booyah after you lie just makes you look silly.
qb
Here’s the WSJ article from Dec. of 2007 that caused us to cash out our stocks and encourage our son to sell is home while the prices were still high. He recently bought a foreclosed home.
This all happened on Bush’s watch, and yeah I keep adding to the list of economic failures because I can.
“Federal and state authorities may have missed an opportunity two years ago to get ahead of the mortgage-securities-pricing crisis now gripping Wall Street.
“In 2005, the Securities and Exchange Commission and New York state’s attorney general’s office launched separate investigations into whether Wall Street securities firm Bear Stearns Cos. harmed investors by improperly valuing complex mortgage securities. Determining the prices of these securities, often based on mathematical models, involves some guesswork, particularly in distressed markets.
An SEC branch office said it intended to recommend that Bear Stearns be charged for improperly pricing about $63 million of mortgage securities it sold to a bank; the New York attorney general’s office, headed at the time by Eliot Spitzer, had sought information about how Bear priced $16 million of mortgage securities it sold to an institutional client.
The two aborted cases have new resonance amid the credit crunch and resulting crisis engulfing the financial world. It was Bear Stearns’s disclosure of badly priced mortgage securities in two of its internal funds that helped spark this year’s mortgage-market and credit convulsions.
High-profile enforcement cases could have sent a message to Bear Stearns and other Wall Street firms to attempt to more accurately price mortgage securities. Such a message could have helped blunt the impact of the current crisis, which has led to investor uncertainty over how firms price these mortgage-related instruments.”
http://www.realestatejournal.com/buysell/mortgages/20071211-siconolfi.html?mod=RSS_Real_Estate_Journal&rejrss=frontpage&rejpartner=wsj_hpp
I don’t hate America. You do. And admit it. Maybe it’s because of your service that you hate our country. I don’t blame you in that respect. But nevertheless, you are free to wallow in self-pity and your hatred of others. Thank God for our military and I salute all of our Veterans including scumbags like you.
To the wingnut trolls who think us of a is the bestest of everything under under the sun – there won’t be anymore WW II to trumpet anymore. Live with it. The neocon admin of dubya, dumbsya and darth gutted the us military to the bone. The Prez realizes this depsite that stoopid methcrystal.
Ethan:
“I don’t hate America. You do.”
Hmmm, I hate America, but served, you don’t hate America, but couldn’t be bothered.
That about sums up your moonbat mindset.
I will now correct your thinking.
I don’t hate America, If I hate anything it’s the tolerance and consideration it shows for people like you.
And I don’t even hate people like you, more of a deep contempt.
I think it would be best if people like you removed yourself from America, but since that’s highly unlikely,(parasites being what they are and all), then the next best solution is to secede and have our own America.
It’s no secret that the South, and those portions of the country who share the cultural traits with the South, have historically provided the majority of members of the US Armed Forces,
“Thank God for our military and I salute all of our Veterans including scumbags like you.”
Don’t thank God…I doubt you even believe in God, thank the people you apparently so despise who ARE the military and naval service.
Not that it means much at all coming from such as yourself.
Imsinca,
Again an article that really doesn’t prove anything about your claim that deregulated banking and caused the meltdown.
There were two investigations of BS but cases not ultimately filed. Proves nothing, really. It happens all the time, usually because the subject cooperates. How also is Bush responsible for Eliot Spitzer — a flaming liberal Dem — not pursuing his case?
You can just keep throwing ad hoc criticisms of Bush against the wall. You aren’t really making your case. That’s partly because Bush actually didn’t deregulate banking or commodities, and I think you know that to be true.
“”"If I hate anything it’s the tolerance and consideration it shows for people like you.”"”
Thank you for proof that you hate America.
Our country was FOUNDED on tolerance of thought, speech, and religion. Only a blind fool who hates his own country would think that.
amk:
“The Prez realizes this depsite that stoopid methcrystal.”
There ya go…there it is in a nutshell.
Front and center, rukidding!
Present your lips and kiss that moonbat’s behind while he slags a soldier serving abroad!
Hurry, boy!
Hop to it!
That’s what you DO…that’s what you ARE.
that Bush deregulated
The Pentagon wants to give the service people a year off before sending them back to Iraq/Afghanistan. Are there 40,000 troops that have had their year off? I don’t think so. So why doesn’t the GOP support the troops? I get the very strong impression that they have the same attitude towards the troops that Henry Kissinger does,
“Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.”
~ Henry Kissinger
except that they regard the troops more as sources of lucre for themselves through no-bid contracts at “cost” plus 10% and through outsourcing functions that the military has always performed for itself. Then they are the ones who cut VA appropriations in the name of “fiscal responsibility” while the Democrats invariably restore the appropriations.
And why should service people have to serve more than one tour of duty? During the Viet Nam debacle on the Democrats’ watch no one had to serve more than one tour unless they specifically stepped forward and volunteered. And there was no such thing as a stop-loss order forcing our service men and women to involuntarily extend their tours. Now tell me which political party cares about the troops and which doesn’t give a darn.
bilge – you’re as stoopid as methcrystal. congrats.
Hey, he hates American tolerance of thought and religion.
So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that he wants to cause damage to our military by putting them into harm’s way in a conflict with no chance of a military resolution.
“So you are a liar. That’s the bottom line.”
The bottom line is that you said a whole lot of nothing, lied, and still failed to address the point of Bush suggesting that war critics are unpatriotic. Same link, again, just to underline your cowardice in not addressing Bush’s own words:
Check out this Bush gem: In a speech taking on war critics, he said that said criticism sent “..the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America’s will,” Booyah!
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/11/12/president_steps_up_attack_on_war_critics/
“Oh, and saying booyah after you lie just makes you look silly.”
..so says the bottom feeder who supported 8 years of failed policies. Booyah!
The Loony Moony may be about to go under.
Ethan:
“Hey, he hates American tolerance of thought and religion.”
Tolerance of thought and religion does not extend to active and passive acts of treason.
Your next line: “Who. me? A traitor? I’m not a traitor!”
“So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that he wants to cause damage to our military by putting them into harm’s way in a conflict with no chance of a military resolution.”
Ahhh, and from which vast font of miltary experience do you draw the knowledge that there is no chance of a (successful) military resolution, Herr FeldMarshal?
Hmmmm?
Your moonbat sweat-lodge hive-mind?
You aren’t nearly as smart as you think you are, no matter how many other dullards tell you otherwise.
rukidding:
Contemplate the meaning of the last stanza and especially the two lines of this poem.
In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army
In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
“and from which vast font of miltary experience do you draw the knowledge that there is no chance of a (successful) military resolution, Herr FeldMarshal?”
Oh, I dunno, how about General Stanley McCrystal?
Interviewer: Can it ever be resolved militarily?
McChrystal: No.
http://www.rferl.org/content/Interview_US_Commander_In_Afghanistan_Says_Real_Solution_Is_Developing_Governance/1765881.html
General McKiernan as well:
““As a military officer, I’ve said that, ultimately, the solution in Afghanistan is going to be a political solution, not a military solution,” McKiernan said.”
THAT is where I get my knowledge. Where do you get yours?
Ethan:
“THAT is where I get my knowledge. Where do you get yours?”
Carl von Clausewitz, who wrote that “War is merely a continuation of Politics”.
The reverse is also true.
Politics is merely a continuation of War.
One would expect both Generals McKiernan and McChrystal to know very well that there can be no political solution that does not employ a military component.
The most finely crafted and persuasive arguments in the world do you no good at all if your opponent brings a bayonet to the debate, see?
Insofar as it goes, I believe they were talking about the need for the “soft power” of a healthy and patriotic political culture to take root in Afghanistan, coupled WITH as much military force as is necessary to protect and defend the territory and population until such an environment takes root.
In no way does your quote of either General support your contention that no,(successful),military solution is possible, and the corollary you draw that we should thereby bring all of our troops home…THAT is the guaranteed pathway to defeat.
And in point of fact, if General McChrystal thinks that no military solution is possible, then pray tell why would he request 40,000 more troops?
For his health?
I told you, you aren’t as smart as you think you are.
“if General McChrystal thinks that no military solution is possible, then pray tell why would he request 40,000 more troops?”
It is my opinion that he is calling for more troops in order to provide security so the Afghan army can develop to the extent that they can secure their own country. Then — and only then — can there be a diplomatic/political solution among the Afghani tribes that have been at war for >30 years.
In order to defeat a counter-insurgency you need overwhelming force for an extended period of time. Do you believe that an additional 40k troops constitutes “overwhelming force”?
“The most finely crafted and persuasive arguments in the world do you no good at all if your opponent brings a bayonet to the debate, see?”
I see. But that does not come close to acknowledging reality on the ground. It is not as simple as us against them.
The Harsh Reality: American troops are embedded in a Civil War between rural Afghanis and the central Afghan government in Kabul (who the rural Afghanis see as being in league with the USA).
As the Soviet Union (who was embedded in this EXACT SCENARIO) found, no amount of troop strength and no length of time in country provided the security to accomplish their mission. They left in defeat.
So, until we can politically or diplomatically resolve this internecine war between Afghanis, the central government, and the regional Taliban; imho we have no business in adding more troops to the mix much less being there in the first place picking sides in a generational struggle. Imho we SHOULD press Pakistan on attacking Taliban/AQ in the Tribal Regions, and if they don’t, we should go in and do the job ourselves, imho.
Ethan:
“It is my opinion that he is calling for more troops in order to provide security so the Afghan army can develop to the extent that they can secure their own country. Then — and only then — can there be a diplomatic/political solution among the Afghani tribes that have been at war for >30 years.”
Very good, in large part, I agree with you. Now as to whether Afghanistan, to perhaps a greater extent than Iraq, makes any sort of sense as BEING “Afghanistan”, rather than a continued fiction dreamt up by some clerk in the Brit Foreign Office is another matter, and one that would lead us into what your moonbat chums would howl at as being “imperialistic”, (and rightly so, since it would involve drawing OTHER people’s borders for them).
“In order to defeat a counter-insurgency you need overwhelming force for an extended period of time. Do you believe that an additional 40k troops constitutes “overwhelming force”?”
You are making the assumption that Afghanistan is an insurgency. I don’t think that that’s the case, just as I don’t think that what was faced in Iraq was a true popular insurgency, (although Bani Sadr and his Mahdi Army came close). I think in Afghanistan we have an external power, Al Qaeda allied with the Taliban, who draw membership both from within and without Afghanistan, and they are but sub-groups of warring tribal factions.
“Peace” over there is not necessarily the same as we would define it here, since these folks didn’t get the memo from the Treaty of Westphalia that created the modern nation-state.
“I see. But that does not come close to acknowledging reality on the ground. It is not as simple as us against them”
and:
“The Harsh Reality: American troops are embedded in a Civil War between rural Afghanis and the central Afghan government in Kabul (who the rural Afghanis see as being in league with the USA).”
Here’s the harsh reality. We could really GAS who runs what part of Afghanistan, as long as they are not allied with Al Qaeda, and are willing to deny their turf as a sanctuary for those who would visit terrorism upon us.
The point of a war is to win, and in this instance the definition of victory would seem to be to deny the use of Afghan territory to our enemies.
Now if we can do that via political means, which is what Bush was trying to do, and largely looks to have accomplished in Iraq, swell.
But if it takes military means, up to and including 40,000 additional troops, then so be it. It’s a “necessary war”, according to our Commander in Chief.
“So, until we can politically or diplomatically resolve this internecine war between Afghanis, the central government, and the regional Taliban; imho we have no business in adding more troops to the mix much less being there in the first place picking sides in a generational struggle. Imho we SHOULD press Pakistan on attacking Taliban/AQ in the Tribal Regions, and if they don’t, we should go in and do the job ourselves, imho.”
Well, we don’t know what operations and tactics McChrystal is going to use or how he is going to employ his troops, although judging from how he handled Anbar Province, I can venture a guess.
Establish a cordon sanitaire to seal off Afghanistan from the Taliban sanctuaries in Pakistan, and use the extra boots on the ground as a very potent “persuasion” to induce the local tribes to come in with us and likewise blow out Taliban and al-Qaeda.
This is essentially what he did in Anbar, slamming the back gate from Syria shut to foreign Islamist fighters, and then having some “come to Jesus” talks with the locals to effect the “Anbar Awakening”.
You keep telling me that I’m not as smart as I think I am, and then you basically agree with me on the entire Afghanistan/Pakistan scenario. Either I’m smarter that you think I am, or you’re dumber than you think you are, or both.
See… that’s truly what boggles my mind. Here you are shooting your mouth off every which way on comment after comment for months on end… but at the end of the day EVEN WE can have a civil discussion about intense issues. And in this particular case while our respective party’s leadership vehemently disagrees, WE see eye-to-eye.
I only wish we could have civil discussions like this on EVERY issue but without having to tear the flesh off each other first.
Finally, FINALLY I get to say this: Thank you Bilge for FINALLY getting beyond the silly BS and having a genuine back and forth with me.
And again, thank you for your service on this Veteran’s Day.
And you’re still a scumbag. But needless to say, I wish you (and the rest of your Right Wing friends here) weren’t.
Ethan:
“You keep telling me that I’m not as smart as I think I am, and then you basically agree with me on the entire Afghanistan/Pakistan scenario.”
Did I?
at 12:23 pm you announced:
“So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that he wants to cause damage to our military by putting them into harm’s way in a conflict with no chance of a military resolution.”
Which is a pretty unambiguous cut and dried statement of defeatism, you surely would agree.
But by 4;35 pm, after some back and forth with myself, you had significantly modified this earlier view to arrive at this:
“It is my opinion that he is calling for more troops in order to provide security so the Afghan army can develop to the extent that they can secure their own country. Then — and only then — can there be a diplomatic/political solution among the Afghani tribes that have been at war for >30 years”
Which is quite remarkable in that you seem to have accepted the necessity of SOME quanta of military force to effect a more permanent political solution, (and I noted that you didn’t disagree with the validity of von Clausewitz’s formulation, or the reverse of it).
But I agreed with YOU.
Well…okay, whatever.
“Either I’m smarter that you think I am, or you’re dumber than you think you are, or both.”
No, you’re perfectly intelligent enough, I’ve little doubt, but your problem isn’t your smarts, it’s your ego….pride.
I’ve been sailing the internet for over 15 years, and one of the common features of blog comments,(and Usenet newsgroups before it), is that there has to be some level of agreement present for a community to form.
But on moonbat blogs particularly the agreement seems to be demanded before the debate is had, and not after.
And frankly, what’s the point of debate and argument among people who START by agreeing with each other?
Is there any endeavor more pointless?
So while you aren’t as smart as you think you are, you are apparently educable once you internalize that you may actually have something to learn…even from neo-Konfederate Konservative Kristians like myself.
Or maybe I’m starting to rub off on you a little.
Pleasant dreams on that note.
Right winger “bilgeman” is explicitly anti-American: He explicitly wants to cut America up into tiny pieces.
That’s what makes listening to him blather on about using military force to achieve political objectives so offensive.
At the heart of his extreme right wing ideology is using military force to destroy America as part of his explicitly outlined political intentions.
How is he any different from the terrorists? Ultimately, he’s not.
In fact, right winger “bilgeman” is explicitly saying that HE is a threat to America.
Why do right wingers hate America so much that they want to destroy it?
May I ask has this information been self researched and written or rewritten from somewhere else?
Awesome site
looking forward to seeing more articles