David Axelrod And Howard Dean To Duke It Out On Meet The Press
NBC News emails the line-up for Meet the Press this Sunday, and it includes:
David Axelrod
White House Senior AdviserDr. Howard Dean
Fmr. Chair, Democratic National Committee
2004 Democratic Presidential Candidate
Fmr. Governor of Vermont
An NBC spokesperson confirms that Axelrod will be on first, followed by Dean. Should be must-watch TV, and very high-stakes: A lot riding on who wins this argument over the long term.
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So far I’m not having comments problems. Other problems, yes. Comments, no.
Greg – What are the real stakes for this debate? Can Dean keep senators who might otherwise vote for the bill from doing that? Are the stakes here just PR stakes – I’m seriously asking.
Holy heck. Somebody email me a link to a place I can stream this online.. I DON’T HAVE A TV!
Tena — I think the issue is what happens in the House. If Dean can keep people fired up it makes it tougher to find a bill that can both get 60 in the Senate and also pass the House. Though the House will probably cave, Dean’s rallying makes it tougher.
Thanks Greg – I kind of thought that whatever effect he would have would be on the House not the Senate cause as far as I can tell, nobody has any effect on the Senate.
Well I take that back – WE effect the Senate cause Joe Lieberman waits to see what we want so he can be against it.
OT – How did I miss this?
“The Justice Department is asking a federal court in New York to reconsider a decision that lifted a federal funding ban on ACORN.
“…ACORN’s uncontroverted longstanding management problems, set forth in detail in the Report, fully support Congress’s non-punitive concern with ACORN’s misuse of federal dollars,” the appeal reads.
“Republicans…are singing the president’s praises over the appeal. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) hailed the decision as a “bi-partisan recognition” that ACORN is not fit to receive federal funds.”
Via Politico
I think that was supposed to be affect. I had that whole thing down solid for awhile = the difference between effect and affect and I’m starting to fall apart on it again.
sorry. For some reason, out of all the weirdness in our language, that is the only one that truly trips me up.
“Though the House will probably cave”
Cave to what? I’m not sure I even understand how Reid gets to 60…
sbj – What a disappointment – I honestly thought you were too smart to fall for that ACORN c*r*a*p, but if you’re going to, then you can’t complain when someone says the right is all Tea Baggers and Rush, cause the whole ACORN thing is one nutty ratwing conspiracy.
@tena: Perhaps you don’t understand the import of the article? Our President’s DoJ is fighting to keep funding from ACORN.
sbj – I get it – you don’t, clearly.
You make an issue of nothing because the right has made a issue out of nothing.
And it’s your cold water habit, too – it’s your way of trying to rub it in that Obama isn’t as progressive or liberal as you think we want him to be.
I frankly don’t care any more about ACORN.
@tena: You should keep track of how many times you have compromised your own ‘principles’ just to support the Obama admin.
“@tena: You should keep track of how many times you have compromised your own ‘principles’ just to support the Obama admin.”
Dude, I respect the law and I assume the DOJ has a reason and I am more interested in the Rule of Law than I am in Obama.
You and the rest never tire of telling me that I’m some kind of robot cause I am not into killing the president with the death of a thousand cuts.
It’s not even so much about Obama as it is that I will never forget as long as I live, sbj, what the 8 years we just suffered through were like.
So you can accuse me of any goddamn thing – go ahead, everyone does.
I know myself and where I stand and I pick my battles.
To reiterate something we’ve been talking about here, at least we can expect to see some substantive debate about how to get something done. I’m less interested to see who “wins” such a debate than I am keen to have David Gregory point out that he has heard nothing like this from anyone to the right of (and including) Blanche Lincoln. Gregory is probably too stupid, but I hope at least a smart panelist will get on and say: “see, this is what has been missing from the fetish of bipartisanship that has produced no meaningful healthcare reform in practical terms.”
I would hope it’s dawning on Independent voters that the likes of David Broder are no different from the teabag crowd.
To put it succinctly: it’s not an either/or with Axelrod and Dean, but a means to an end. Let’s hope it raises a little consciousness.
“it’s not an either/or with Axelrod and Dean, but a means to an end. Let’s hope it raises a little consciousness.”
well I figured that and that’s as it should be.
I’m afraid Gregory is going to be unable to constrain himself from incessantly trying to get them to attack each other (see Greg’s “ideology” post from earlier) rather than understand that there is a REAL debate.
I’m sure right now he’s imagining himself as Tina Turner outside a giant cage…..
BginCHI, you newish around here? welcome. stick around.
After a delay the video should eventually be up at*:
http://mtp.msnbc.com
Bonus: Markos Moulitsas is at the “Roundtable”.
Drawback: Republican Karl Rove’s dance partner is leading the “Roundtable”.
*podcasts of the week befores** show are available as well.
**is “befores” a word?
I’ve seen Dean on TV as have you…if you paid attention he CLEARLY said he is not for killing the bill…but rather attempting to make it better. Saying you wouldn’t vote for a VERSION of a proposed bill is not exactly the same as KILLING IT. As others have suggested it could be simple posturing to get a better deal.
And so here is my solution. Obama calls all the DEM opponents and Dean into his office in private. He tells them to get on board..pass the bill..and he PROMISES to FORCEFULLY get behind an attempt to get Medicare buyin at 55 through reconciliation early next year. It would be a win-win. Obama gets his health care bill and he could use the political capital to attempt the Medicare buyin with just 50+ Biden immediately after he signs his bill.
Obviously he can’t announce his intentions until he signs the current bill into law…but what would really stop him after that?
Love the blog, Greg. This is a lot better than yelling at Andrea Mitchell for not knowing how to ask questions.
I’m usually posting over at Benen’s. He has pizza and beer.
OT:
Backlash boots Palin from hospital fundraising
But this statement by Palin is truly unbelievable:
“Canada needs to dismantle its public health-care system and allow private enterprise to get involved and turn a profit,”
http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2009/12/18/12204771-qmi.html
Somewhere I read recently that the kind of debate we’re having in the details is what we should’ve been having during the tea/townhall hysteria. Maybe having Democrats debating and not necessarily agreeing on the merits of the bill when its nut cutting time is a *good* thang?
MSNBC video podcasts of previous shows.
http://podcasts.msnbc.com
Podcasts of:
Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann…
Republican Karl Rove’s dance partner David Gregory “Meet the Press” disaster…
Far right Republican Joe Scarborough….
On my wishlist: Podcasts of Ed Schultz
Chuck, it’s not that it’s a good thing, it’s that given where we are, we ought to admit that at least substantive issues are out in the public discourse. Finally. That’s what was so frustrating about the summer; there wasn’t really a debate. Instead, one side yelled made-up, hysterical **** at frightened pols while activists and informed citizens on the left were stuck trying to get GOPs on board. In retrospect that kept us from moving forward. It’s hindsight, but in July I wish Rahm would have told Baucus “you’ve got 1 week,” and then if nothing go nuclear. This is sure easy from here but hard as hell in the trenches.
Since they are not going to be on together, at the same time, it is misleading to state that they will be duking it out. They are not even going to be in a position to go point, counter point, debate style.
It is just going to be two interviews, one after the other.
OK Ethan…you brought up Palin…his some holiday cheer for everyone. The St. Petersburg Times created the Pulitizer Prize winning Politifact that rates political statements from True..to Barely True…to False..to Pants on Fire Lie!!! As the year nears it’s end the paper asked the readers to rate the BIGGEST LIE OF 2009!!!
Surprise…surprise..surprise…Sister Sarah was selected as telling the biggest pants on fire lie of the entire year.
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/dec/18/politifact-lie-year-death-panels/
BG-
Yeah, thats what I was attempting to say. “Public discourse” is the key.
@Liam: missed that at first.
However, having Dr. Howard Dean follow Axelrod could be considerably more substantive than having them squabble while Gregory pokes them both with sticks to rile up a fight….
On the other hand, I stopped underestimating Gregory’s ability to reduce substantive discussions to glossy trivialities a long time ago….
On the other-other hand, MSNBC has some excellent hosts that make up for Gregory, for instance, this 5 minutes of VIDEO of Dr. Howard Dean explaining that while he’s “not giving up on healthcare reform” the current bill, as written, “is not real reform, it’s not healthcare reform, there are no “choices”".
…
“There’s no cost control of any substance.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo_tWh40gaU
msnbc.com video via firedoglike/youtube
I really don’t think this is about ‘winning’ in the sense that someone will be defeated on sunday. Nothing ever happens on sunday shows and NBC is probably the worse place because gregory is not a very good interviewer. just MHO.
OT:
Left/Right Populist Outrage Will Defeat Senate Health Care Bill by Jane Hamsher
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/leftright-populist-outrag_b_397483.html
doing exactly what you said made you uncomfortable.
lfo…I couldn’t agree more about Gregory’s lack of interviewing skills…his obsession with false equivalency oft times makes him come across as a moron.
Just as I posted earlier that Sarah Palin’s “Death Panels” was considered the biggest LIE of 2009..beating out Glen Beck who finished second and even Orly Taitz whose birther **** came in third.
Gregory would have treated these three absurdities as a simple difference of opinion instead of the absolute bullshit it really was…I think my criticism of Gregory would mirror Gail Collin’s recent criticism of Joe Lieberman…it’s just that they aren’t really all that bright!
Quote from the Jane Hamsher article:
“At no time do the synapses firing in their brains make the connection that both the “lazy progressive bloggers” and the tea party activists are saying almost the exact same thing about the Senate bill.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/leftright-populist-outrag_b_397483.html
She then seems to advocate joining forces with the glibertarians
All, Happy Hour roundup posted:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/climate-change/happy-hour-roundup-130/
OT but good quote: “as events have unfolded I’ve become increasingly convinced that there is little political upside for Democrats in passing this bill, and much, much downside. For one thing, the “failure is not an option” argument makes little sense at a very basic level. It’s the equivalent of arguing that what the GOP really needed to do to save its majority in 2006 was to sign an immigration bill that deported illegal immigrants; maybe it should have pushed through private accounts for social security, just to show the country that the GOP was capable of “governing,” and to give the base something to get excited over. The problem is that the public doesn’t want to see a party simply “governing” or pushing through major legislation. They want to see a party “governing well,” and pushing through major legislation that the public wants.”
http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/12/18/the-health-care-bill-is-political-suicide/
totally ruk. He is just so bad eh? I have that image of him dancing with Rove and I really do not need to know anything else you know? He is a very vapid interviewer. Ugh.
Lamh31-head:desk. lather, rinse, repeat.
see you in the next thread.
Greg, what duking it out ? Are they not not coming together ? Or you believe in time travel ?
Sheesh… sometimes you do get into beltway, two bit hacks mode, Greg.
You were correct the first time. Affect is a verb, effect is a noun, except in two circumstances:
- effect (bring about) something
- affect (a person’s demeanor, used mostly in psychology)
This doesn’t make sense. Meet The Press always has two REPUBLICANS on, not two Democrats. I think the scheduler goofed this one. I’m sure Gregory won’t let it happen again.
“Will” is confused that there aren’t the usual two REPUBLICANS agreeing with each other on Karl Rove’s dance partner David Gregory’s show, but he’s missing the fact that it’s two DISAGREEING Democratic leaders FIGHTING with each other and that kind of makes it almost as good for Republicans.
That said, I just watched the discussions and was deeply grateful that Gregory managed to have one of the most substantive conversations I can ever recall listening to on his show before.
The discussion with both Axelroad and then Dean touched on many of the issues that I have had concerns about and both were given solid amounts of mostly uninterrupted time to express their differences.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/vp/34499586#34499586
In the end I still agreed with Dean but Axelroad defended his positions admirably.