SEIU Gets Threatening Phone Call: “You’re Gonna Come Up Against The Second Amendment”
An official with SEIU, which has been sending members to town halls to counterbalance the Tea Party brigade, sends over this audio of a phone call the union says it received on its central voicemail system, threatening to teach union officials a thing or two about “the Second Amendment”…
The call seems to refer to reports today to scuffles in St. Louis between SEIU members and town hall rowdies.
“I suggest you tell your people to calm down, act like American citizens, and stop trying to repress people’s First Amendment rights,” the caller says. “That, or you all are gonna come up against the Second Amendment.”
More in a bit.
Update: Brian Beutler reports that an anti-health care reform organizer is explicitly calling on the troops to “carry” and if SEIU members get disruptive, to “hurt them.”
Update II: The threat comes after Rush Limbaugh went on the offensive against SEIU today and even gave out the address of the union’s St. Louis’ headquarters.
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Corporation-organized mobs of thugs shooting union members. Again.
Will history repeat itself?
Sounds like SEIU made this whole thing up, including the recording.
The disconnect astounds me. Stop the violence or we will shoot you. Wow – I worked for years with victims of domestic violence; the underlying tone of it’s your fault I hit you is amazing.
I’m pretty sure that was a death threat which is a crime in every state. Pretty stupid of whoever that was.
Pretty. Hopefully, they have caller ID, just in case it’s not the idle threat it appears to be.
Well these jackasses finally spurred me to action: I just sent MoveOn $250 to help organize and combat this thuggery.
“Sounds like SEIU made this whole thing up, including the recording.”
Obviously. When have right-wing nuts ever shown a propensity toward violence? Other than the Holocaust Museum shooting, the Alfred Murrah Building bombing, those cops murdered in Philadelphia, the Unabomber, the murder of that abortion doctor, etc etc etc.
The left had some pretty damn weak moments during the last administration. But they never had this many people in their ranks who exhibited such an incredible incapacity of handling being in the minority.
Oscar Leroy:
You mean the cops murdered in Pittsburgh, not Philadelphia.
Oscar… Shall we examine the history of the Labor movement and violence? Or should we merely confine it to deceit and trickery?
Both sides are getting a bit unhinged. Repeating this sort of stuff is dangerous, IMO. I don’t think it is responsible for anyone to make such a call and I don’t think it is responsible for Greg or the SEIU to spread this sort of stuff around. Both sides are already getting enough “ammo” to ratchet up their emotions – please don’t feed the extremists on both sides any more. Please tone it down.
But sbj, they’re just asserting their right to protest and voice their opinion!
Willful ignorance, credulity towards their masters and violent, authoritariantendencies are a BAD combination…
sbj, it’s absolutely necessary to get this out to the public. People need to know before it gets out of hand and people get killed.
@kawoold: You misunderstand my point.
The opponents of reform are being told that “union thugs” are attacking them. The proponents are being told that they are being threatened with attack by guns.
It gets both sides worked up and it does no good, as a reporter, to repeat this stuff. You don’t light up a cigarette near a fireworks factory. You don’t announce over loudspeakers at a crowded public event that there has been an anonymous, unverified gun threat.
Greg – Please stop reporting this stuff – no good will come of it.
Racist pricks who beat a black man and called him a n*gger wouldn’t fake a youtube video would they? nahhh? SEIU is criminal organization.
“Oscar… Shall we examine the history of the Labor movement and violence? Or should we merely confine it to deceit and trickery?”
Shall we stay on the present day and the subject and quit throwing out straw men?
Shall we examine the history of the Labor movement and violence?
Please do. It helps to remind people why we need unions.
yes lets examine the violent ******** connected to the unions.
@mike: If this was something other than just an anonymous whacko then you might have a point. Right now this is just an anonymous phone call. It is irresponsible to work people up over this. Let’s investigate and see what’s going on before we start scaring folks for no good reason.
“Greg – Please stop reporting this stuff – no good will come of it.”
O you’d love that.
The job of a reporter is to report. You don’t like the fact, change them – stop this awful tearing the country to pieces. It isn’t us – we tried to reach out.
The right seems to want a civil war in the worst way.
sbj,
I was tempted to agree with you. But, with today’s announcement that the reform opponents will be descending tomorrow onto SEIU headquarters there, I don’t see the merit for asserting that SEIU is acting irresponsibly by publicizing the phone threat. I grant that they could have opted to handle it discreetly, and I don’t think that would have been irresponsible either, but they’ve obviously chosen to just simply let everyone know about it and let everyone govern their actions accordingly. Some people, on both sides, can now choose to stay away tomorrow, based on this information.
@sbj
The opponents of reform are being told that “union thugs” are attacking them by opponents of reform
The proponents are being told that they are being threatened with attack by guns by opponents of reform.
*Fixed!
See, it’s obvious “both” sides are at fault.
/facepalm
So, let me get this straight. SEIU members beat up and shove protestors at a townhall – send one man to the hospital. And now they get a death threat and they’re whining?? Really?? I an ashamed to be a member of SEIU. My union has be overrun by power-hungry thugs who probably did make up that death threat call just to get attention. We’re better than that, people. Respect the 1st Amendment and stop punching people at the town halls. Hoffa & Kennedy days are over – start acting like adults!
So now we have this death threat. The death threat to the NC Dem Rep who has canceled all events. You got THIS GUY twittering to people to bring firearms if SEIU people are going to be there. There is THIS fight here that broke out in Florida and THIS fight that broke out in MO. Glen Beck JOKING about killing Nanci Pelosi.
Republicans have to step up now and STOP this. It is their constituents that have lost control.
Could it be possible right wing groups organizing this are hoping to bait the Administration into start arresting people to start something bigger or is this something that is now out of their control?
Did anybody really believe that this wouldn’t be the next step for teabaggers? Please. Like I said the truth is its not a matter of if but when something tragic will happen now because nobody is really showing this kind of stuff the attention it deserves. Cable show hosts asks Republican operatives to denouce the vitriol and violence not out of real concern but just to see if the Republican will do it. And when they don’t its brushed off like no big deal. I wonder how funny it will be if somebody ends up getting shot by a right wing gun nut who has been riled up by these astroturf outfits and glen beck.
Sadly the outrage of cable news will probably only last about 5 minutes just like the outrage over Dr Tiller being murdered in his church.
@savannah: I’d like for Greg to handle this a bit more discreetly. My fear is that some on the SEIU side will now feel obligated to carry their own firearms. This is a political debate – not war. The folks are protesting at SEIU headquarters tomorrow because they have been ginned up with stories/videos of “union goons” beating someone down. Now the union members are being ginned up and given every reason to carry arms themselves and respond with force if necessary. It’s a tinder box waiting to go up. Things are not made better by “reporting” anonymous phone calls that may or may not represent legitimate threats. That’s how I feel.
@patches: I don’t follow…
sgwhiteinfla: “teabaggers”… *eyeroll* Really mature of you. Name calling completely discredits everything you have to say. Can’t we rise above all the classy name-calling? Can’t we, for once, argue with actual facts. You know, maybe throw some respect and tolerance at people, even if we disagree with them on principle? The ’60s protesters have turned into the thugs of the 21st century. We can’t promote a democratic agenda if we keep undermining ourselves by acting like idiots. Please…
Cynthia
How long have you been a SEIU member?
“So, let me get this straight. SEIU members beat up and shove protestors at a townhall – send one man to the hospital. And now they get a death threat and they’re whining?”
So let me get this straight. SEIU members come out and let it be known that they won’t be bullied, that health care won’t be hijacked by a gang of knuckle-dragging inbreds – and all of a sudden the astroturf crowd is whining?
“Respect the 1st Amendment and stop punching people at the town halls.”
People with glass jaws have no business throwing punches. Every Action has an Equal and Opposite Reaction. Deal with it.
“Name calling completely discredits everything you have to say.”
then
“The ’60s protesters have turned into the thugs of the 21st century.”
Nice.
sgwhiteinfla: How long have you been a SEIU member?
About 21 years. That and UAW. And I’ve seen enough of the bullying to last a lifetime. I just think there’s a better way. And to hmm – glass jaws? Really? Do you think it’s admirable for SEIU members to put a man in the hospital for speaking his mind? If so – this place has really gone to hell.
Cynthia
I give the teabaggers all the respect they deserve which is to say none. They are a bunch of raving dumb a$$es that are so upset about having a black president that they are willing to believe any and everything that the clowns on FoxNews tell them. They don’t have any answers and all they have been conditioned to do is oppose anything that the Democrats have proposed. They are wrong about every major issue in this country and the best part is they don’t even wan’t to know the truth. As long as they continue to act like braindead cultists I will continue to call them teabaggers and if you self identify with them then all I can tell you is to read a book or learn how to google and get your head out of the sand.
Oh one more thing, I couldn’t give less than a **** whether you value my argument or not.
Me thinks Cynthia is full of it..
Oh dear, class act Peggy Noonan “worried” in her WSJ column this very morning that something like this might happen. And now here it is coming to pass. Oh, Peggy, Peggy, Peggy. You’re scary smart, Peggy.
Nah, jak – I’m not full of it. Just a little surprised at the direction my party is taking. That’s all.
As if opposing plans to insure tens of millions of people isn’t anti-life enough, now they’re actually talking about bringing guns.
You know these folks call themselves “pro-life,” too.
“This is a political debate, not a war.”
I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. You’re wrong because the insurance and pharmaceutical industries are looking at losing trillions of dollars in revenue. That’s trillions. They have no intention of losing this war. They are doing this because they have already lost the debate. The debate is essentially over.
Or did you honestly think there are ordinary citizens out there who are so supportive of the health insurance industry that they’re willing to spill blood? This is a movement that has nothing to do with healthcare and everything to do with political power. The goal isn’t to stop healthcare, the goal is to stop reform, period. The goal is to destroy Obama’s ability to lead. The healthcare debate is merely the ground on which they’ve chosen to fight.
Yeah, you’re full of it. Concern trollery is as old as the internet.
@Jeff: You DO realize that the pharm industry has already cut a deal with Obama, don’t you?
This is not war – that’s crazy talk. You scare me. (Just like chris with his shouts of boo!)
That’s it. I’m going to Walmart, get armed to the teeth, boobie trap my home, by eleventy-billion cases of Ramen Noodles and Mountain Due, grab my collection of dirty mags, barricade myself in my basement and I’ll see you all next year when this debate is over!
teabaggers”… *eyeroll* Really mature of you.
Actually, they started off calling themselves that. Then again, if you weren’t ignorant, you wouldn’t be a wingnut concern-trolling a blog.
And when did it become time for debate? You people were trying to ram this through just last week. Like global warming the time for talk was over. I have seen Comrade Obama and Comrade Gibbs both say that we have debated for 40 years and now we need to just pass it. Not as easy to steal from us is it?
“I have seen Comrade Obama and Comrade Gibbs both say that we have debated for 40 years and now we need to just pass it. Not as easy to steal from us is it?”
Try to get this through your thick damn skull: We won the election by a large popular vote margin and a large electoral vote. Therefore, it is this president’s perogative to try to get his agenda passed. And a majority of Americans obviously agreed with the agenda because they voted for him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYnySGM9dQA
Yes, it’s going to get ugly. And the right will get it’s collective *** seriously whipped again. They may have some “Turner Diaries” type fantasies and even imagine the various National Guards and even regular army, federal troops, will side with them. That won’t happen in any meaningful way and they will end up as grease spots on the road someplace. those that survive wil go to prison for a very long time, if they don’t get the death penalty that most of them are in favor of. In the grand scheme of things, however, it is just a tempest in a teapot and a small footnote in future American history..
@ sbj, you’re an idiot. Complete idiot. I don’t think I’ve ever called another commenter such a name, or any name. But I absolutely mean it in the very sense of the word. You are an idiot.
Just a thought, however… I wonder how long it will be before they start with the suicide bombs?
“My fear is that some on the SEIU side will now feel obligated to carry their own firearms.”
I carry my firearms with me all the time. Anybody threatens my life, they are dead meat. That’s what the Framers wanted. Just ask Justice Thomas.
Haven’t protesters ever heard that your rights end where someone else’s begin? How is shutting down democratic process, refusing to let other people express their views or ask questions, and even threatening to end people’s right to life engaging in the democratic process?
The death threat thing doesn’t surprise me at all, given the spread of this thing, there will always be some crazy person who takes it to the extreme. I’m think that the anti-reform folks just thought that we would all quiver in fear and cave in to their demands, so when SEIU takes a stand and refuses to let them bully the country, they turn on SEIU. I don’t know the specifics of the case in St. Louis, but given the EXTREME provocation that the anti-reformists have been engaging in, I don’t think it would take much response for the situation to turn ugly. That said, SEIU wants to pass health care reform, with a STRONG, NATIONAL public plan. Their goal at these town meetings, therefore, would be to make sure that they can happen, that people can discuss and ask questions and hear their representatives speak. If conservatives are forcing their way in to yell and shout and scream, then I would imagine SEIU would try to keep them out of the room at least. And if they’re shouting, and/or get kicked out, I’m sure they’ve expressed their point. This isn’t Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, and since they’re shouting I’m sure they can still be heard through the doors, but this way other people’s 1st Amendment rights are protected too.
And with regards to the severity of the threat, like i said there will always be crazies, but given the already violent nature of the protesters and the fact that they posted an address (and that these protesters are already showing up in droves anywhere Fox extensions tell them to), it’s definitely a serious threat.
“Just a thought, however… I wonder how long it will be before they start with the suicide bombs?”
Well, there is a lot of Timothy McViegh-style rhetoric going around. And since they’ve already shot up the Holocaust Museum and murdered a doctor in his own church, I suspect you may be closer to the truth than any of us want to think.
The second amendment, like the first, is a double edged sword. Many on the left seem to be less comfortable with firearms. This isn’t true of most but the myth that we are all pacifists isn propagated by the right. Actually, the left tried violence in the past, but has largely renounced it. See Emma Goldman, the Frick assassination plot and the “propaganda of the deed”.
In any case, these nutters will be in for a surprise because the myth they propagate about the left just isn’t true. I’m not suggesting there will be running gun battles in the streets, there is no need. The state has the monopoly on coercion and force – something the right loves when they are in power and can’t stand when they are out of power.
You have to follow the dictates of your own beliefs but there are many more leftists who are comfortable around guns then you realize. They just have no problems with reasonable gun control regulations. A couple of thoughts on the second amendmentfrom two famous socialists:
“The Constitution of the United States guarantees to you the right to bear arms…You have the unquestioned right, under the law, to defend your life and protect the sanctity of your fireside. Failing in either, you are a coward and a craven and undeserving of the name of man.”
– Eugene V. Debs (American Socialist)
“That rifle hanging on the wall
of the working-class flat or labourer’s cottage
is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there.”
- George Orwell (Socialist)
I’m curious as to what effect wingers think death threats against unions will really have?
It’s not as if labor is the most pacifist group out there. Their history was forged under the armed attacks of literal corporate mercenaries. Given warnings that they’re about to “come up against the Second Amendment”, I’d imagine they’ll start packing themselves.
Seeems more likely to lead to a bloodbath, with people dead on both sides, than anything else. Maybe that’s what the right wing wants.
.
What will happen when a Beck Goon/Winger actually pulls a gun and/or actually uses it? Seriously, what will happen? It’s going to happen sooner rather than later. The teabagger/birther/brownshirts are not going away even after this health care bill is passed. Are we going to have to deal this until something serious happens like oh, a right wing christian jihadist bombing.
The thing that rankles most of these wingnuts is not how obnoxious they are, but how obnoxious AND WRONG they are. It’s as if the Republicans were trying to pass a Federal law requiring municipalities to increase the number of paid fireman on duty and liberals went around screaming bloody murder because “the law is an attempt to euthanize old people with hoses.”
It’s pure insanity.
SBJ: “You DO realize that the pharm industry has already cut a deal with Obama, don’t you?”
Perhaps, but it seems evident that the health insurance industry has not, or if they have, that they are not satisfied with the deal. How else to explain the disruptive and violent town hall attacks of the past two weeks?
.
“What will happen when a Beck Goon/Winger actually pulls a gun and/or actually uses it? ”
It’s already happened. The wingnuts said the racist gunmen was a leftist.
@JGabriel: “How else to explain the disruptive and violent town hall attacks?”
I ain’t gonna get into THAT with you.
But I will let you know that the health insurance industry has a handshake deal with Obama – nothing formal like what the Pharm’s apparently have. They have conditonally agreed to certain reforms that, I believe, we all favor. In return they get tons of new customers but remain adamantly opposed to the public option (of course). Obama has chosen to make the insurers the bad guys while embracing the pharm industry, so y’all had better stop demonizing them!
Note: “Nonetheless, DeParle [director of the White House Office of Health Reform] said the president may be interested in cooperatives — if they are designed to achieve his objectives. Robert Gibbs…reinforced that view during his briefing yesterday when asked if Obama would sign a bill that didn’t include a public plan. “The president is open to a bill that increases choice and competition,” he said. DeParle distanced herself from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s description of the health-insurance industry as “immoral.” “That isn’t the way I would probably describe it,” she said. She said the industry has “worked together constructively” with the White House toward a comprehensive health-care overhaul.”
See also: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/white-house-big-pharma-we-have-a-problem/
“The government dealt away our right to negotiate lower drug prices (just like any other large customer), and they did it for peanuts. This is a disgrace.”
Where is Sgt Crowley bnow to arrest the teabaggers for disturbing the peace in a PUBLIC place (not a professor’s HOME!!!
Some of you may not be old enough to remember these:
Greensboro Massacre, 1979
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_massacre
Gordon Kahl,(In 1967, Kahl wrote a letter to the Internal Revenue Service[citation needed] stating that he would no longer pay taxes to the, in his words, “Synagogue of Satan under the 2nd plank of the Communist Manifesto.”), 1983
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Kahl
Alan Berg (liberal Denver talk radio personality) assassination. 1984
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Berg
And there are all the killings in the south during the civil rights movement days. A good blog to follow this stuff with is Dave Neiwert’s Orcinus:
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/
I don’t want to see anyone get hurt but this kind of thing has always happened and it probably always will.
Conflict is ubiquitous.
sbj: it’s simple.
“The opponents of reform are being told that “union thugs” are attacking them. The proponents are being told that they are being threatened with attack by guns.
Unions aren’t threatening opponents with violence but opponents ARE threatening unions with guns. and you somehow turned that into an equivalence in the greatest pretzel twist ever.
Greg, can we get a way to post pictures here? I feel like some points need to be drawn in crayon for people to understand basic arguments.
Cynthia:
From the reports I’m seeing (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/08/07/town_halls/), the SEIU staffer was sent to the hospital too, and it appears that the crowd was angry with at least some people from SEIU because they were getting in after the room was already full (but they were able to get in because they were staffing the event). So again, don’t know the details of the event, but given that the SEIU guy was staffing the event, and the anti-reform crowd was trying to break down the doors, it doesn’t sound like he was the thug.
Greg; you shouldn’t report such things, especially when Republicans/Tea Baggers make death threats. Doing such only shows you’re irresponsible and part of the problem. Can you really believe SBJ would say such a thing????
“Racist pricks who beat a black man and called him a n*gger wouldn’t fake a youtube video would they? nahhh? SEIU is criminal organization.”
ummm…the man arrested for the assault is black…
“Well on that note, we’d like to briefly note what we here at the Limbaugh Wire have learned today. We’ve learned that Rush has seemingly convinced his entire audience that every health care reform falsehood he has advanced on his show in recent weeks is true. The evidence of that is the fact that nearly every caller on his program today echoed to Rush their fear that health care will result in old people being killed. ”
From MediaMatters Limbaugh Wire.
Enough said.
I just sent MoveOn $250 to help organize and combat this thuggery.
Good Answer!!
@Patches (how cute!): I take it, then, that you did not see the video of the SEIU member getting arrested in St. Louis at the Carnahan rally after a man selling/handing out flags was injured and went to the hospital. And you didn’t see the photo of the local Democratic activist who slapped an anti-Obamacare protester? You probably didn’t see the letter from Kenneth Gladney’s attorney? And you probably didn’t see the write-up at The Weeekly Standard of the eye witness to St. Louis Scuffle who says that an SEIU representative punched him in the face.
It’s pretty simple. Here’s a link:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/priceless-jamie-allman-confronts-russ.html
SBJ:
Bwahahaha! The Weekly Standard … oh, stop, yer killing me.
Dude, The National Enquirer is more reliable than the Standard. No one with a brain takes it seriously. The fact that it was published there almost certainly means it’s a lie or misrepresentation.
.
@JGabriel: I take it, then, that you did not see the video of the SEIU member getting arrested in St. Louis at the Carnahan rally after a man selling/handing out flags was injured and went to the hospital. And you didn’t see the photo of the local Democratic activist who slapped an anti-Obamacare protester? You probably didn’t see the letter from Kenneth Gladney’s attorney?
This is the same **** my grand-fathers, my dad, my uncles and even I had to put up with. All we wanted was a right to the table for some say in the way our contract was written. Every time contract time came around, the same people that wanted what I had but didn’t want to pay the dues to the union. These are the same thugs that tried to stop us from unionizing and then try to screw with us during contract time. These people think that this is good for them and they are nuts. Companies are not your friends, they want something from you be it your money or your skills with little pay to you. Its all about what they can make off of you. Anyone that has to work for a living knows that universal health care (medicare for all) is what is needed. You ask why, because then when we renegotiate our contracts that we can gain more money through raises or other benefits. When our health care cost rises we have to offset through our pay. Our pay becomes stagnate. Remember when your folks lived better than you. Your mom more than likely stayed home because it only took one pay check in my case it was my grandmother. Now, for a family it takes both parents to work and we are still falling behind. We are not better off than our parents and definitely not our grandparents.
In 1900’s my great-grandfather was a pipe fitter and he had worry about getting shot going on a job site. My grandfather nearly lost his life when his car was blown up in his attempt in unionizing what is now know as 3m. This is the history of unions, I had a guy take pot shots with a rife in a factory because my union brothers from Pirelli tire co. was on strike. I was not in the U.A.W. but I was there for support, that’s what the union is for. I boycotted products when contracts were not honored, because that’s what the union is suppose to do. This is nothing unusual, this is what the proud men and woman do and are used too, when it comes to anti-worker, anti-union, and anti-American people. We do our jobs with skill and with pride and there are times we wonder if our life is on the line be it on the job or on a picket line. That’s what it means to be union and a proud American.
Proud retire I.B.E.W.
I have seen those, and it seems your side were the provocateurs. And why would I stop at the weekly standard? Murdoch basically had to pawn that rag because it had no readership, likely caused by a lack of interesting and/or factual content.
Let’s put it this way, you can yell and scream all you want. But if someone were to lay hands on me, I’d have no qualms belting them in the face either. Just because you have evidence of the left being violent doesn’t mean those incidents weren’t done in self-defense. When was the last time someone burned an effigy of a congressman to defend themselves? Show me a video of the SEIU promoting a second-amendment based takeover of these townhalls, moreover the government.
I’m fine with opponents protesting. But if they become violent, proponents of health reform have every right to defend themselves.
This from TPM:
In a Facebook post, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin wrote that President Obama’s health care reform plan would include a “death panel” which would decide whether “my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome” would get health care based on “their ‘level of productivity in society.’” “Such a system is downright evil,” she wrote.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/live/health-care/#283721
Holy ****. Again, if you’re out there and you truly believe what Sarah Palin says, and you truly believe that health care reform will create a “death panel,” why wouldn’t you react violently? This is incitement, pure and simple. The Republican leadership, whether official or de facto, is dangerously irresponsible.
Wow, that’s some novel double-think. Threaten people with gun violence if they don’t “stop the violence”.
Brought to you by the party of wars for peace, deficit spending for a balanced budget, and welfare for the rich.
I call bullshit sbj. I think a citation is needed. If those things you described happened, why not provide links to them. Because they didn’t happen that’s why. Just more lies to hide the truth behind a failed Republican party.
@fish: All right here. Just page down. The Democratic activist, the video of the arrest, the atty letter.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/
Also see my previous link to (insert ominous music)… The Weekly Standard for eye witness write-up. You could also check out (ominous music)… Drudge.
The TU Quoque gets a little old, sbj, and it is a logical fallacy and “classic red herring”.
“Tu Quoque is a very common fallacy in which one attempts to defend oneself or another from criticism by turning the critique back against the accuser. This is a classic Red Herring since whether the accuser is guilty of the same, or a similar, wrong is irrelevant to the truth of the original charge. However, as a diversionary tactic, Tu Quoque can be very effective, since the accuser is put on the defensive, and frequently feels compelled to defend against the accusation.”
Furthermore, to be honest, if that’s all you’ve got and it is actually true, it’s pretty weak tea.
And… Weekly Standard and Gateway Pundit carry no cache here.
You’ll have to do better than that.
@Hanover: Que?
I am not defending the lone whackjob who may have called in an anonymous threat (if that’s what you are trying to say).
???
@hanover: I carry no cash, either. But that’s pretty silly. The commentor asked for cites – s/he got ‘em.
wow – so much hate here. really can’t tell the blue from the red. maybe we should table this, may just be a little too much right now. maybe move on to something we can agree on – like education reform, or malpractice reform, or social security etc.
i call b.s. on all of the above. the references to nazi’s are abhorrent, the references to unions are abhorrent, the comments on both sides are out of line.
shame
wars for peace, that’s a brilliant comment – iraq-bush, afghanistan-bush, somalia-clinton, iraq-1-bush, vietnam-johnson, korea-truman.
here’s my question – i see a lot of coverage on this, but very little about just what is in these different bills, who they are going to cover and how, and what it is going to realistically cost.
Gosh Tena, if this is what it’s like when everyone is on your man’s side, I would hate to see what it looks like when the public sours on him.
She meant cites from a reputable source.
Trolls are a waste of time. Just ignore them. You know who they are.
If you’ll provide your address I can send you some blinders. Oh snap – you’re already wearing some!
It does occur to me that sbj may be operating at a bit of a handicap anyway. He’s not fluent or proficient in English.
Strategery and Tactics
— How do I know this is the norm? Because I used to have strategy meetings with the late Jack Kemp and Dick Army and the rest of the Republican gang about using their business ties to help finance the pro-life movement to defeat Democrats. I know this script. I helped write it… Here’s the emerging American version of the fascist’s formula: combine millions of dollars of lobbyists’ money with embittered troublemakers who have a small army of not terribly bright white angry people (collected over decades through pro-life mass mailing networks) at their beck and call, ever ready to believe any myth or lie circulated by the semi literate and completely and routinely misinformed right wing – Evangelical religious underground. Then put his little mob together with the insurance companies’ big bucks. That’s how it works – American Brown Shirts at the ready.—
http://www.truthout.org/080709H
SBJ,
‘The opponents of reform are being told that “union thugs” are attacking them. The proponents are being told that they are being threatened with attack by guns.’
Okay… so we should just shut up about actual death threats and let the right-wing continue to spout propaganda about imaginary union thugs. That sounds like a totally awesome compromise. Why didn’t we think of that sooner?
As opposed to letting “the right-wing continue to spout propaganda about imaginary union thugs,” what are you proposing to do?
It sounds like a suburban housewife p.o’d about the vicious attack by the seiu on a black conservative yesterday. no where does she say that violence will ensue, it is a thinly veiled threat that Constitutionalists are going to take all their rights and use them, despite the increasing governmental control. This situation will all be gone by 2012, keep your chins up, my fellow American patriots.
Seems like the threat was more of a warning. All the SEIU has to do is stop trying to intimidate those who are peacefully exercising their rights to free speach and to disagree with the government. Sounds like sage advice.
“Increasing government control”??!!!
What are you talking about? You are probably insane.
“All the SEIU has to do is stop trying to intimidate those who are peacefully exercising their rights to free speach”
This one as an illiterate ********.
SBJ:
If the right wing follows through with it’s threats to labor that “you all are gonna come up against the Second Amendment,” then I propose they shoot back.
With luck, perhaps saner heads will prevail. But if the right continues to engage in eliminationist rhetoric, and engages in eliminationist action, don’t be surprised when people fight back and defend themselves.
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Interesting information in Jeff Sharlet’s “The Family” (about the folks who sponsor the C street house) on what role they played in giving unions a bad reputation for violence. They are strongly on the capital side of the capital/labor dichotomy. Sharlet doesn’t go as far with it as is needed, since his focus on The Family’s influence in politics and government. He certainly gives a good start for someone to dig further. We need that info.
I can only hope a Union thug will assault me when trying to deny me my rights… which include “open carry” here in Ohio.
Those “blue shirts” make a nice target.
as far as i am concerned, seiu and its’ international leadership can go $%^& itself. i live in northern ca., i work for a national healthcare system, and have been a dues paying member since 1999. a little over a few months ago my local was placed in trusteeship over bogus claims. to make a long story short, our contract has specific provisions regarding employment income security. these provisions WERE to protect dues paying members for the life of the contract up until its due date. well today these idiots allowed management to roll them over like the patsies they are. this will result in definate layoffs of members BEFORE any mid-managers are shown the door. way to represent you cronies and collector of dues. hacks.
This is a joke–right? Yesterday, SEIU beat up a man in St. Louis, and blocked the doors to a town hall in Tampa, and SEIU is complaining about intimidation!!
This woman merely stated that if confronted with Obama’s Brown Shirts, she would defend herself from their assaults.
Oh, the horror!!
Well, personally, if someone tried to put a beat down on me for selling little yellow flags, they’d come up against the second amendment, too. I think it’s perfectly legitimate to let people know that they better not pull this **** in a CCW state.
It’s only civil to let someone know that their next punch upside your face might be the last thing they ever do.
By the way, it is ridiculous to claim Greg Sargent is a journalist. He’s a gossip columnist. He’s parroting SEIU claims with ZERO investigation into who left this message. It was probably an SEIU activist.
Oooh, tuff talk!
You pee yourself if you ever held loaded weapon on someone and had a split sec to contemplate pulling the trigger. BOO!
See what I mean? Noow go and put another plug in and change yer panties. They look wet.
It is truly a shame that our once proud nation is reduced to this infighting among ourselves. I pray we come out of this united again and the strongest and proudest nation on earth. The best to both sides and may GOD help us all!
Whoopee! Civil War!! I can’t wait. We should have laid waste to the whole south 150 years ago. This time it will be easier. The federal gummint has nukes.
Blow me, teapartyson.
Civil War!!!!
“don’t be surprised when people fight back and defend themselves”
When the civil war started, Sherman was in the south, as superintendent of a military college in Louisiana, and begged them not to start a fight.
You should read what he wrote at the time.
We need a new Sherman to burn them doown again, and that’s exactly what they’ll get.
On hearing of South Carolina’s secession from the United States, Sherman observed to a close friend, Professor David F. Boyd of Virginia, an enthusiastic secessionist, almost perfectly describing the four years of war to come:
“You people of the South don’t know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don’t know what you’re talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it… Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth—right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.[28]”
In January 1861 just before the outbreak of the Civil War, Sherman was required to accept receipt of arms surrendered to the State Militia by the U.S. Arsenal at Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Instead of complying, he resigned his position as superintendent and returned to the North, declaring to the governor of Louisiana, “On no earthly account will I do any act or think any thought hostile … to the … United States.”[29]
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SEIU are a bunch of unintelligent racists….
Finally, the racists Liberals are showing what they really are. Shame on politicians on the left for encouraging their union thugs to beat up Americans. Unions need to be dissolved!
More Dead Wingnuts!!!!
Juls:
Shame on politicians on the right for encouraging their rightwing thugs to beat up American workers.And shame on unAmerican rightwing thugs who do their bidding, and engage in eliminationist rhetoric and actions.
Just because the left and the center support gun control, do not think they don’t possess guns or know how to use them.They do. And they will, if pressed, defend themselves.
For instance, you might want to start by remembering that most police forces are unionized.
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Single payer
Premium free
Medicare for all
Big Pharma on diet
Zero insurance profit
No deductible & no co-pay
Off the table? Just like Impeachment was?!
Left and rights of passage, black and whites of youth.
Who can face the knowledge that the truth is not the truth?
Obsolete absolute.
Anthrax Intimidation.
JFK RFK MLK Malcolm.
Israel-first dual-nationals.
InfoWars on a PrisonPlanet?
A very RawStory on PressTV.
Whistle-Blower leaks multiply.
Beware the divide and conquer.
Both parties are corrupt to the core.
Honesty compassion conscience guts.
Speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil?
Elite Ruling Class Greed or “public servants”?
Independents agree on more than we disagree.
AIPAC 9/11 Bankers Extortion Blackmail Bribery.
Wall Street Bailout Bill: Bush McCain Obama et al.
Poodles, Puppets, Sham debates, & Scam elections.
Has the Government & Propaganda Media lied to you?
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Chronic lying as career path, intellectual prostitution for paycheck.
DNC & RNC have both sold out the country in order to enrich themselves.
Future of a Nation that can not trust the Government & Propaganda Media?
Realignment of American Politics:
Anderson Baldwin Carter Choate Clemente Gonzalez Gravel Kaptur Kucinich McKinney Nader Paul Perot Sheehan Ventura
======================================
Obama the DIVIDER
Obama the gangsta and his homeboy Rahm
======================================
Obama sold himself as the great UNITER but the implementation of his ideology is creating the worse division in this nation in decades.
And the left-wing demonization of citizens compounds the problem.
@ NWaff: The right wing is doing a fine job demonizing themselves through their own actions, without any help from the left.
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The American right wing extremists shall be made to regret the powers they have consolidated in the Executive Branch from 2000-2008. It is the Age of Information – managing the flow of (mis)information is how the right has amassed an army of malinformed angry citizens, and with the flow of information, they shall be defeated.
When and if violence erupts, their ringleaders and every participant will be arrested.
Their organizations will be bankrupted with lawsuits.
Their individual firearms rights will be forfeit when they are convicted of various felony conspiracy charges.
Right-wing media provocateurs and inciters cannot and shall not protect their manipulated minions from modern justice.
We shall see the rise and fall of more “Viper Militias”, we shall scour violent extremists from our midst, and make sure everyone knows whose political party they belong to and whose rhetoric propelled them. We will put them out of their odious business and we’ll do it all… 100%… within the law.
Civilized folks usually try to implement dialogue first as a way to stop violence. This is always the best option if it can work.
The ugly truth is that the only sure fire way to stop violence completely, is to visit retaliatory violence upon the violent oppressor in an escalating fashion until said violent oppressor retreats.
I would hope we could get some help from the UAW and the Teamsters showing up in force at some of these meetings. Like the Islamic fundamentalists, the only thing the Teabaggers respect is veiled force.
The right to peaceful protests is assured by the constitution. It is time responsible leaders act responsibly. If this threat was made police will check and undoubtedly will find it untraceable. That is how cowards and fringe people work. Zealots on both sides of any question start false rumors and use scare tactics. Millions of people have died in recent history because good people said and did nothing out of fear and intimidation.
Having a union (or acorn) coming to a political discussion in their uniforms saying that this is the battleground for health care…then knocking some people around are going to get some push-back.
I would have to say that the people who are more used to and have used violence in the past are the union organizers, not a bunch of old people at a rally.
You guys are way off base here, the presence of Obama storm troopers will be the catalyst for violence. It’s already happened in St. Louis and as long as union organizers are being deployed as peace-keepers (ala ***** angels at a concert) someone is going to get hurt.
The first ones to get hurt will NOT be the union guys as we’ve already seen.
“The first ones to get hurt will NOT be the union guys as we’ve already seen.”
I hope your right. The “right” deserves and needs another beating. And you ought to get used to it, dude.
When I attend the tea party rallies and the town hall meetings with the “elected” congressmen, Please ensure no SEIU union thugs or others who are told to hit back twice as hard get in my face. It will not be pretty. DO NOT TREAD ON ME. I seriously mean it. From the clips I’ve seen, SEIU only sends out dumb, fat, ugly slobs who can only beat up old ladies, anyway. It would be a major mistake to mess with others of us.
bob h – Are you not man enough? You need help to push your own battles? Bwa…Bwa…Bwa…Crybaby. Teabaggers don’t respect veiled force like you say, they obliterate it, along wih crybabies.
Goodgold:
Ooh, talking tough on the internet. How macho!
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Goodgold:
Then what’s with all the whinging and calling American workers ‘Union Thugs’. Why do you hate America? You guys just can’t stand it when someone fights back. Can’t take a punch. Wahhh! Wahhh! Crybaby indeed.
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My best friend got some advise from his Priest regarding dealing with the Christian Republicans and their trolls, tea baggers, birthers, and town hall aniti-health-care obstructionist. When he uses that rebuttal the trolls disappear of the blogs and those he sees in person are calming down like mad dogs being tranqualized.
Quote to them, Matthew 25:41-46 and ask them to explain the words of CHRIST himself as he Proclaims HIS COMING JUDGEMENT ON THE NATIONS…and their comments or protest actions…especially representing the party which is the ONLY PARTY OF CHRISITAN AMERICA. They have NO COME BACKS at all. Using the WORDS of Christ in these scripture is like holding the Cruifiix in the face of PURE EVIL.
If you read that scripture, you will see its the (per the Republcians) heathen, immoral, sinner-demon, socialist, nazi Democrats who are the ONLY ONES FOLLOWING the instructions of CHRIST in fighting for a health care for the SICK, WIDOWS,ORPHANS, DIS-ENFRANCHISED and LESS FORTUNATE. This scripture (from their King James Bible) exposes the real Christ who lives in their hearts…and they know they have NO TESTIMONY ANYMORE. please pass this to others and if someone has connections with the DNC or agencies fighting these hypocrites..;.pass this to them..Signs with this scripture behind the heads of Congressmen at Town Hall meetings and someone reading this scripture in the beginning will DEFUSE most of the hate..from honest people being lead astray
Nice passage:
Matthew 25:41-46 (Contemporary English Version)
Then the king will say to those on his left, “Get away from me! You are under God’s curse. Go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels! I was hungry, but you did not give me anything to eat, and I was thirsty, but you did not give me anything to drink. I was a stranger, but you did not welcome me, and I was naked, but you did not give me any clothes to wear. I was sick and in jail, but you did not take care of me.”
Then the people will ask, “Lord, when did we fail to help you when you were hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in jail?”
The king will say to them, “Whenever you failed to help any of my people, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do it for me.”
Then Jesus said, “Those people will be punished forever. But the ones who pleased God will have eternal life.”
Surely something for the teabaggers to think on this Sunday morning.
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Seems like SEIU can not take a little of their own medicine. How many times have we seen their members turn disruptive at town hall meetings in the past? Now that a group of unorganized individuals wish to have their voices heard, SEIU starts whining about ‘threats’. Thugs the entire lot of them
Nice message JGabriel, first you quote the Bible and then use a term such as “Teabagger’. You must be a member of the party which has no problem giving over 50% of your money to the government… or rather, taking other peoples money since you are so sanctimonious about helping others.
markwb:
My sincere apologies, Mark. I was under the impression that was the name you selected for yourselves back when you were first organizing your teaparties.
markwb:
Then again, it seems we are both imperfect messengers for our respective causes. Though to be fair, I certainly don’t remember American workers ever asking to be called ‘thugs’ or ‘goons’.
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there is a simple solution for the division on the health problems, by concern people,wanting their voices heard.All the districts have elected persons to carry their consticunaces views, and reasons for their decisions on any subject.the is no reason for party leaders, the rep.should only cast a vote independent for the views of his district.in this manner a rep.can vote his district views.to help stop any violence, each resident of a district go to their own town hall meeting, and let the residents of another district go to their town hall meeting, without interfering on the rights of the town hall.that would help to keep down animosity.
You libs make me laugh! You are all a bunch of elitist ******** who want the rest of America to behave, vote and live exactly the way they do in CA, NY, MI, IL, MA and the rest of the Godforsaken “Blue” states. Do you people not learn from the mistakes these state governments have been making for decades?! Do you not understand that Unions are 99% responsible for the downfall of the auto industry?! Why do auto manufacturing plants in right-to-work states operate with profit and efficiency?! You libs need to crawl into a cave and die! Oh, and as one lib said above, I also don’t give a **** what you think of me…..at least I’m not a *****!
I come from a long, long line of union members in the nuclear industry and the textile industry. My relatives would turn over in their graves if they saw how SEIU members are behaving toward people trying to voice displeasure over a health bill being shoved down their throats by the Feds. Sad, sad day for unions in this country SEIU!
Yeah the call is real, trust me! Sounds like pelosit with her comment about swatiskas, I wsnt to hear the libs talk more, they hang themselves every time. I saw the video of this union beating up another american for standing up for his beliefs.. I ask you, which group is more violent. Unions had a place in time for the good of people, now they are just like the ones they originally protected the people from. Same ****, different stick. A rose by any other name!
The public is not as naive as they once were. These games and threats all sound like a schoolyard bully. I fought back then and I will now. 2010 & 2012
I was a member of United Mine Workers in WV. Didn’t have a choice – no membership, no work.
Every July our union Boss made the miners go on strike for higher wages. Guess what, the cost of coal increased, food prices in the company store increased. We unionized ourselves out of jobs and had to leave the state to find work. Most went to Ohio and Michigan and became members of UAW – see what that has done for the price of cars? In 1965, prior to going to Vietnam, I bought my wife a new Mustang for $1895.00. Guess what the price of a new “Union Made” Mustang costs now!
” Do you not understand that Unions are 99% responsible for the downfall of the auto industry?!”
The same can be said about the public educational system………..
The rightists call and make death threats to American workers and Congresspeople, and then complain about how put upon they are and want us to feel sorry for them?
You guys are a piece of work.
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]gaberiel, you are repeating the information without any proof or factual evidence, of angry citizens of misinformation by professional protesters, that invade the meeting hall of the voting individuals that reside in the district, to be heard by their rep.to voice their opinion of the bill. people that reside in another district with their own elected rep. has no business intervening in another district,s town hall. conservitives are demanding the truth, speaking out loud and, clear for the first time in a long time. for a long time, the right let the left scream, and yell,until the left got their way. I believe these tactics are now a thing of the past, people today are better informed and access to information on events that will effect their lives. Want to see the effects of a gov. run agencies Look at california .
JGabriel, you are blowing your horn with a sour
note.
|M, I have read some of your blogs where you seam to have a fantasy of civil war in your blogs.you are an idiot, or an arrogant fool” Do you have any what a war zone is like, in reality, not in your foolish fantasy” the is an old saying “be careful what you wish for,” no one wins in a civil war, this is the best country in world so far.if you unhappy to live within laws of our constitution, you can always relocate to a progressive country until their funds run out.I can,t I can,t believe I blogging a moron.- just as well, I will not be back on this web page after I send this.
That’s not a threat….its a promise!
Um… reality check here guys. American Criminal Law has always held that protecting the life of another, with violence or otherwise, is justified.
If an SEIU thug is beating up some guy on the street, the law considers it socially responsible behavior to stop him, by force, if necessary.
People forget that “beatings” are life threatening things. Getting smashed down on the pavement or a good hit in the face can easily kill you. SEIU is damn lucky that political corruption has protected them from criminal prosecution.
This “threat” is merely a statement of the law as it currently is. I think it’s funny that somebody above thought it was “illegal” to inform an often sketchy organization that self defense (and defense of others in this case) is a part of the American legal code.
Folks, I feel it is time to remember a few things Edward R. Murrow has said:
“If we confuse dissent with disloyalty — if we deny the right of the individual to be wrong, unpopular, eccentric or unorthodox — if we deny the essence of racial equality then hundreds of millions in Asia and Africa who are shopping about for a new allegiance will conclude that we are concerned to defend a myth and our present privileged status. Every act that denies or limits the freedom of the individual in this country costs us the … confidence of men and women who aspire to that freedom and independence of which we speak and for which our ancestors fought.”
As quoted in “The Improbable Irish” (1969) by Walter Bryan
“We hardly need to be reminded that we are living in an age of confusion — a lot of us have traded in our beliefs for bitterness and cynicism or for a heavy package of despair, or even a quivering portion of hysteria. Opinions can be picked up cheap in the market place while such commodities as courage and fortitude and faith are in alarmingly short supply.”
From “This I Believe” (1951)
And finally, my personal favorite:
“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men — not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were, for the moment, unpopular.
This is no time for men who oppose Senator McCarthy’s methods to keep silent, or for those who approve. We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. There is no way for a citizen of a republic to abdicate his responsibilities. As a nation we have come into our full inheritance at a tender age. We proclaim ourselves, as indeed we are, the defenders of freedom, wherever it continues to exist in the world, but we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.”
From “See it Now” (1954)
@teapartyson:
As Americans, we must remember that it is our self-evident right to agree to disagree; it is one of our founding principles as a nation: it is the core of the First Amendment, and its whole reason for being first listed.
* * *
Folks, even though Mr. Murrow said what he said in an earlier, different era, I feel that what he said then bears even more weight now, especially as we see an increasingly vitriolic “debate” about the issues reduced to violence and the threat of violence.
Now, more than ever, we need to embrace a spirit of tolerance and a willingness to listen to our political adversaries…
And by tolerance, I mean something more than just putting up with those that disagree with our own opinions because we can’t shut them up. By tolerance I mean a ready willingness to listen to those that disagree with us, and active — and polite — dialogue with them to understand just what they are trying to say.
…Or is it that we are so afraid — nay, terrified — that we will find ourselves in agreement with them, that drives us so far apart?
Our nation would not be what it is today if not for the spirit of compromise, of seeking a way past our differences to work toward what we all feel that we need.
(Where has that spirit gone to now?)
And finally, if we really cannot stand what the other person has to say, we need to forcefully remind ourselves of what a certain Frenchman once said about similar situations:
“I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
By François-Marie Arouet [21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778]…
…Better known by the pen name VOLTAIRE.
* * *
@nader paul kucinich gravel:
Capital bit of writing! Loved it. Thanks for sharing!
* * *
For those interested in more of Mr. Edward R. Murrow’s quotes, please see the following: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Edward_R._Murrow
vet said:
“Want to see the effects of a gov. run agencies Look at California.”
Hey, I resemble tha——! Um… *scratches head* Damn…!
@Bob and Bart:
Um…have either one of you considered what our industrial working environments would be like if it were not for what unions have done? *shudders*
And yet, I agree with you. I look around me, especially at a certain union that works out here…no names mentioned, of course…and all I keep seeing is a bunch of crabs in a bucket: most folks in that union are only concerned about riding the gravy train, getting everything they can bilk the system for, and dang the rules.
So I believe it would be more accurate to say that the greed of the individuals within certain unions is what’s undermining the good they could be doing for their members, and, by extension, the rest of society…
(I wonder how much money that union boss that made you strike each year got paid for doing that…? If it was anything like what the union bosses out here get for doing it, he was probably laughing all the way to the bank.)
…But that greed on the part of those individuals is gonna kill their precious unions dead, dead, dead.
@vet:
You should also consider that when you look at the mess here in California. Organized labor (aka, “special interests”) have done its fair share of ******** things up out here…along with politicians on BOTH sides of the aile.
…But in all fairness, most of the wackiness here and throughout the Union (er, I mean, the United States of America) can be traced right back to “We the People.”
I mean, after all, aren’t “WE” the government!? Or did I, like, miss something in school?
Forget the labels of Democrat and Republican, liberal and conservative. Forget liberal media bias versus Fox News. Either you want a big government that does everything for you…food, rent, banking, health insurance….or you want the government to get out of your face.
The price for the nanny state is high taxes, beaurocratic inneficiency, low self-esteem, and a lack of innovation. You pro-nanny-state people can call me all the names you want, but I am not a racist, or a nut. I [freely] give money to the charities of my choice, I respect all honest hard working Americans of all races, and believe that America thrived for almost 200 years because we followed the Constitution. If you want to dismiss me as a thinking caring person because I think the government can’t run ****, that’s on you, not me. Look around you, medicare, medicaid, the VA, Social Security, the post office, Amtrak, and now GM….they all lose money, they all have worse service than private equivalents (where they exist), and they are not accountable to the very people who pay for it. Wake up and smell the toast burning. Health care in this country is good…it just costs too damn much and government has ZERO record of doing things cheaper or better than private industry.
Yes, Bush sucked. Obama sucks too and the congress Sucks. Put your faith in yourself and your family. Pledge to yourself to work hard and strengthen your family and community. If we wait around for government to make our lives better…we are all totally boned.
Don’t marginalize your brother and sister citizens. That is always a mistake.
@sgwhiteinfla – You sound like a liberal talking point memo. Everyone who disagrees with you isn’t automatically ignorant. Nor do Unions typically represent the opinion of the majority of their members. Amazingly enough most unions are quite liberal while not all their member are. Which means this “teabagger” knows that when any Union comes out backing something it doesn’t necessarily speak for it’s members.
Now perhaps, we should start working towards laws that allow citizens to disolve their Union membership by choice more easily.
Oh, wait – you can’t do that how will the mob bosses keep the cash flowing in hand over fist in Union dues so that we can use it to support candidates and political policies that our own members oppose.
*Insert Leftwing extremist flames here.*
@Bill M – You absolutely ROCK! The Stateists will be the ruin of this Country. As they fight for fairness and ignore more and more of the Constitution to create their Nanny State, they will ultimately see the failure of this great Constitutional Republic.
Stand together now and be counted. Defend the Constitution from the Stateist. Don’t buy the same of tired rhetoric of the caring system, as they care themselves into almost full control of another 1/6th of our economy.
**** SEIU thugs and **** leftists.
Hi buddy, your blog’s design is simple and clean and i like it. Your blog posts are superb. Please keep them coming. Greets!!!
I am a union carpenter-we were forced into the seiu because they “sign” anyone that is breathing ( except when voting,as breathing then is an option) to COLLECT DUES.Our union should not be a part of this or any other criminal enterprise. They were threatened? better get used to it or start being civil, human beings.I did not vote for acorn or the seiu nor will I ever in the future. Self-serving is not unionism and the general public will NEVER come to our side(or aid) while we are misrepresented by the likes of THESE people.You threaten people every day-get over it.