Obama Administration Set To Hold Powwow With Big Gay Groups
The Obama Justice Department has reached out to major gay rights organizations and scheduled a private meeting for next week with the groups, in an apparent effort to smooth over tensions in the wake of the controversy over the administration’s defense in court of the Defense of Marriage Act.
Tracy Russo, a spokesperson for Justice, confirmed the meeting to me, after I posted below that top gay rights lawyers were miffed that administration lawyers had rebuffed their requests to meet and discuss ongoing litigation involving DOMA.
At the meeting — which hasn’t been announced and is expected to include leading gay rights groups like GLAD and Lambda Legal — both sides are expected to hash out how to proceed with pending DOMA cases.
It remains to be seen, however, whether the meeting will achieve in a long term sense what gay rights lawyers told me they were and are looking for — an ongoing, less-confrontational interaction with the administration in the context of specific cases. It’s also an open question whether the meeting will resolve broader tensions in what has been an unexpectedly rocky relationship.
Nonetheless, this is likely to be greeted as a step forward by gay activists who have been raising questions about the administration’s commitment to their cause.
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Sounds like very good news — but, given all the times the Obama people have spurned the LGBT folks in recent months, let’s reserve judgment until we see what actually happens.
(Oh, and while I’m at it: Don’t play football with anybody named Lucy.)
Hold ‘em to the fire.
It won’t do any good. The LGBT community are absolute brats, and they won’t listen to reason. If the administration does or says anything short of giving them exactly what they want and giving it right-damn-now, they will proceed to demonize this administration.
Just look at how they behaved during the Donnie McKlurkin fiasco. He was hired to SING at a gospel concert and the LGBT community threw a hissy fit, even though it had absolutely nothing to do with them or their agenda. Even after Obama added a Gay speaker to the event to even things out, they STILL screamed and demonized him, because like I said, they are not looking for a reasoned approach. They’re brats, plain and simple.
Mark my words. All these ratty-brat tactics that they continually engage in is cause some serious backlash and set them back even further.
The administration should skip this meeting. You cannot reason with the unreasonable!
my sista must be one of those homophobic blacks
Take care: if you want their money, help to get out votes and their votes then you has better be responsive. One does not have to give them a carte blanche; but one needs to be genuine in reaching out and talking with gay groups. They are citizens and voters.
You haven’t seen hissy fit, “MY SISTA”. Keep your obnoxious homophobic “agenda” to yourself. YOU should know better than to suggest the LGBT community continue to wait for their civil rights. Yes, they’re mad, they want equal rights RIGHT NOW.
It sounds like mysista has all the **** pegged. Wow. Brash generalizations about a minority community, mysista? Glass houses?
The gay community is not unreasonable, nor are we monolithic. We just expect Obama to actually follow through on his campaign promises that he made to our community. Is that so much to ask? Yes, there are some among us who want every right and benefit immediately, but others of us are content waiting, so long as there is at least some forward motion.
The problem, mysista, is that Obama filed a brief that made all of Pat Robertson’s arguments for him in defending the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). In other words, not only is that not moving us forward, but it’s actually moving us backwards. And that made us angry? Is that unreasonable?
And regarding Donnie McClurkin, the guy spews all kinds of ridiculous anti-gay statements all the time, and we had a problem with that. Is that so wrong? If someone was a known racist, and was asked to speak at a Jewish Obama event, don’t you think the black community would have had a problem with that, even though the event had nothing to do with the issues of African Americans? See how it works?
Your double standard is showing…
mysista, Those comments are hardly productive and completely insensitive to the gay community. What you call being “bratty” I call exasperation with a government that has for too long marginalized an entire community of people. Are there some overblown accusations being made? Sure. Do we want what Obama promised us? Absolutely. Are we losing patience? Without a doubt. You see, if there is one thing the LGBT community has is patience. And, I can tell you that most in the community would probably agree that the circumstances surrounding the DOJ brief do make sense, but it is the tone and the insensitive language that has angered and offended us so much. That coupled with a president who has said nothing about gay rights, other than a joke at our expense, has been much too much to take.
So, I would advise you to take into consideration the whole situation before you start calling millions of people brats because they’re angry that in a court of law their government compared their relationships to incest.
I see… the Justice Department; not the Executive.
What are they going to do? Orchestrate a victory on DOMA?
Brats? Donnie McKlurkin fiasco? The guy is a bigot. What you seem to miss, dear, is that the DOMA issue was an in your face insult to the community. Unless you yourself enjoy being equated with pedophiles, incest, and bestiality. I for one do not. None of those things float my boat as a gay man. It’s not about demonizing the Obama Administration for not “giving them exactly what they want and giving it right-damn now” it’s about the fact that they file briefs in United State District Court that say really ugly things that don’t happen to be true. Most child molesters are heterosexuals. Sad but true. We are not unreasonable — I think we’ve been very patient — every administration who took our money and got elected because of our support typically threw us under the bus when it was politically expedient. Or perhaps you haven’t been paying attention. If you’re not gay, you probably haven’t been aware of what it is we are trying to achieve. So, really, you should take your pique elsewhere. This is about equal marriage rights for health insurance, survivorship benefits, and hospital access. So, until you know what you’re talking about, you should probably put a sock in it and stop being such a hag.
Ratty-Brat tactics? Pulling out of a fund-raising event that is targeted to the **** and their “deep pockets” isn’t being petulant. It’s a natural consequence of being screwed by the administration. I know that I and my friends donated a great deal of money to the Obama campaign. If they can take our money, they can treat us as equals. It all spends the same, right? Having a meeting to discuss the way forward on various litigation issues isn’t being a brat. If it’s not your fight, STFU.
Wow. These comments have degenerated rather quickly…
.
I really hope that there can be some sort of understanding between the white house and the LGBT groups. I understand where the LGBT are coming from and I honestly believe that the White House has a rational reason for putting this issue off for a bit. We need to keep in mind that it has only been six months and there are a lot of other things going on right now.
If they’re reaching out in good faith, then they should cancel the fundraiser.
Everyone needs to stop generalizing. When will we ever learn. the GLBT community is hardly unreasonable, and there is nothing productive about referring to “those homophobic blacks.”
Asa black member of the GLBT community, I can tell you that the GLBT community has been very patient and considerate of all of the issues competing for the President’s attention. The first straw was the President’s absolute silence during the recent civil rights advances that the GLBT community has seen this year -only to be diminished by a JOKE at the White House press dinner. We’ve been the butt of many jokes, so we gave him a pass.
We might -might -have been able to withstand a defense of DOMA as simply “following the current law,” but when the admin equates GLBT people and their relationships with incest and pedophilia, then they invite the backlash they are getting. They have made no attempt to condemn the remark or retract the language in their pro-DOMA brief.
Obama has made little attempt to show that he really cares about the Gay community aside from asking for our money. If he continues to no only ignore us but to work against us, he will not have our donations or our votes in the next election.
These issues may not be important to you if you are not gay, but the discrimination that gay people face under the law is very impactful to our everyday lives. It is easy to say be patient when you don’t suffer the very real economic, legal and social consequences of discrimination.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
People: Mysista is clearly a troll. I’ve seen this kind of “brat” post on other blogs. I doubt she’s even a Dem, prob a white frat guy from Inhofe or Sessions’ office. Don’t let it create rifts between things we all need and our fight for rights.
You guys are being played. Someone named ‘mysista’ (whom you all assume is Black) post something over the top calling the LBGT community ‘brats’. You all fall for the bait, and start comparing gay rights with African-American civil rights, in not so nice terms.
Hi-jinks ensue….
If ‘mysista’ is Black, I will eat my hat. Stop falling for the bait and feeding the trolls. This is exactly what they want, a fight inside the Democratic party between Black and ****.
Of course we’re throwing a hissy fit. We’re pissed. Yes, there are a lot of things happening in the world now, and he has a lot on his plate. But to tell a group of people who’s civil rights are non-existent at the federal level, and vary from state to state, to just be patient while other things are addressed, is BS. What they are basically telling the LGBT community is to continue to be content with the status of being second class citizens in our country, while “more important things” are taken care of. Well, guess what? We’re tired of waiting our turn. We’re tired of being demonized. We’re tired of being told that basic civil rights in America are no longer valued. We won’t shut up until we are treated with respect by the government. We won’t shut up until we are treated like every other American.
Get over yourself, mysista. When you give me the power to decide who you can marry, and where you can work, and let me sit in judgement of your entire life, we’ll talk.
Gay people and straight people are taxed exactly the same.
I don’t understand why wanting the civil rights that are paid for with tax money is being bratty.
Now, I have not seen an exemption on any tax return for being gay.
So the only recourse, since gay people are actually being taxed the same as straight people, is not contributing to a party or administration that considers the civil rights of one group as negotiable.
In fact, IMO the DOMA thing is completely unconstitutional.
either get rid of marriage benefits for everybody, or give them to everybody.
Seems fair, legal, and the right thing to do.
I am gay. I have NO PROBLEM with the way our President is handling gay issues. The meltdown of the economy is a bigger issue than anything else. If our President tackles too many gay issues too quickly, he will be a one term President. Time to chill out on the gay side.
I’d urge “my sista” to read Matin Luther King’s “Why we can’t wait.” or maybe she doesn’t know her black history.
Congress has to get a bill to the President’s desk in order to overturn DOMA and DADT.
It has been five months; and this man has walked into a failing economy, massive home foreclosures, a bankrupt car industry, an inadequate health care system, a massive energy problem and a education system that has failed this country. Additionally, he has 2 wars, North Korea firing off rockets every other week, a continued Mideast Breakdown, trying to close Gitmo, a pandemic flu and had to pick a supreme court nominee. All of which and MORE he is tackling.
The is ONE man. I say to the gay community…”remain patient”. I do tend to agree with “Mysista”. The gay community tends to *****, whine, and moan consistently. Loyalty is NOT an attribute we tend to possess. It’s not ALL about our issues ALL The damn time. The President just extended benefits to same-*** couples working in the Federal Government. You read some of the gay blogs and they simply dismiss it as not enough and had nothing to say but hateful things. Again, NEVER satisfied.
I do believe we should hold Obama to what he promised during the campaign. But remember TIMING is everything. The republicans would love a one of these hot button issues to throw into the mix while Obama is trying to get health care passed. And, honestly, I would rather the focus be on getting health care for all. And, the **** should be happy about that because I KNOW many of those queens don’t have health care.
I believe in equals rights for all, including all of us in the gay community. Obama will follow-through on what he has promised. This is a man who has depth of character. And, believe me, no Republican would even and has given us the time of day here. I didn’t see Bush giving Federal employees health care benefits.
JUST BE PATIENT AND STOP BITCHING SO MUCH. Be PATIENT…..PLEASE!!!!
I get the feeling that in the LGBT community, the Obamas Presidency was suppose to be all about them and to hell with everybody else.
I’ve begun to stop reading the articles on their causes and offering my support. They’ve become hateful of anything Obama.
Bratty? What if you were forced to chose between your Country and your Love? (assuming you have one).
Right now LGBT Families are STILL being torn apart, on a daily basis, via the discriminatory practices of our Administration’s antiquated and unfair immigration system.
In 2009 thousands of Tax-paying, Lawful US Citizens are forced to either – live in exile, in the shadows, enter into sham marriages or separate. Having to choose one of these IS extreme and SHOULD merit some relief from a supposedly sympathetic Administaration! (and if one thinks these type rights should wait- they have them or don’t need them)!!!!!!!
The US is the ONLY English speaking country in the free world that does not afford ANY Immigration Rights for qualified Same-*** couples. It’s long overdue that the Leader of the Free World step up and join 19 of our closest Civilized allies to provide some vehicle for it’s own Citizens. Federal Employees or not, ALL Lawful Americans should be able to use the US immigration system regardless of their sexuality!
Back in March the White House voiced it’s support for the Uniting American Families Act UAFA which would rectify this inequality and recognize ‘Permanent partners’ as part of immigration law. This Legislation FINALLY is getting the support it deserves after nearly a DECADE rumbling around in Congress. It is LONG overdue and the Whitehouse needs to fulfill it’s promise and help to correct this gross injustice. I ask that you’d consider signing a petion or writing your Congressman, info – @ immigrationequality.org
Support the UAFA and the RFA – because it’s the right thing to do and could easily effect you or someone you love. Thanks for your time
I guess they’ll try and solve this problem with a speech and nothing else, too.
Hopefully, by 2010, they’ll wake up to the fact that people want pretty words without ugly action — with laudable, promised action instead.
Don’t be duped, ****! They just want your money, and the want an unboycotted DNC fundraiser to get it. This is window dressing, nothing more. All talk, no hat, as they say.
I say no meeting until campaign promises are kept. Withold donations. Protest. Write letters. Be ‘bratty’. Just don’t give in.
Sure, dialiogue will be good. But emoty rhetoric has seen its day.
Like others, I do not believe for one second that “mysista” is African-American. Ignore the trolls.
And it’s a sad day in America when the quest for nothing more ostentatious than equal treatment under the law is considered a “hissy fit.” We’re not going to shut up or sit down. Silence is for those who can afford it – and no American refused a seat at the table because of race, gender, or sexual orientation can afford to pay that price. We cannot abide discrimination during the boom times either, but people calling for patience don’t seem to understand tha this discrimination impacts us HARDER during times of national and global tribulation.
Spouses and domestic partners who can’t consolidate their finances, share health insurance, or even visit each other in the hospital faced those challenges with or without a global economic downturn. Transgendered folks faced daily harrassment, to say nothing of the benign malignance of people’s stupid assumptions, before Lehman Brothers was flushed. And GLBT people of color faced exclusion from ALL sides, not just from their heterosexual family members and friends, and not just since Barack Obama took the Oath of Office.
I cannot reiterate this enough: America is going to get “there” together no matter what happens. The question is what “there” will be. It could be a place where all people are treated more fairly. It could be a “more perfect Union,” where those who haven’t had a fair shake get one – and can turn their attention to rebuilding America, rather than demanding that America stop violating its most fundamental promises. Or it could be the same repressive pariah parade, led by the same conservative zombies who have eaten the heart and sense of basic morality right out of this country.
A pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness that arbitrarily and categorically excludes millions of tax-paying and patriotic Americans is unsustainable, immoral, and bound to collapse under the weight of its own hypocrisy.
Mysista, whether you are or aren’t a troll, I hope you at least consider the words of someone far smarter than me: “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”
Wow! Quite a few morons here today.
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@DH: “I didn’t see Bush giving Federal employees health care benefits.” I think you meant domestic partners of Fed employees. Either way you are wrong. Obama didn’t extend health benefits to domestic partners – he can’t because DOMA prevents that. I think it was a cynical ploy on Obama’s part to curry our favor, just as this hastily arranged meeting is another cynical attempt to placate the likes of Americablog. I am so sick of hearing this lame excuse of “He has so much to do!” Bullshit! I haven’t heard Gibbs or Obama say this is why they are moving backwards. This same blog has been telling us for weeks now that this same Repub attack (”He’s trying too much.”) won’t work. And just yesterday we were reminded that the public doesn’t think he’s doing too much. Iran and gay rights – why does it seem that Obama is more worried about potential backlash than about doing what is right? I think his vaunted pragmatism might result in more harm than good. Certain values must always be defended.
mredder4, you hit the nail on the head.
mysista, if they invited a neo-nazi or a white supremicist, i’d be just as angry as I was when they invited McLurkin (and Rick Warren!).
As for bratty, I won’t apologize for demanding my equality. I won’t apologize that the demand is interferrign with your schedule, either.
Destiny, Obama actively courted the LGBT vote, promising change. Indeed, in 1996, when running for Senator, he promised “unequivocal support” for gay MARRIAGE — and promised to block every effort to ban it. Is it supposed to be all about us? Absolutely not. But are we equal citizens? Yes. Is my relationship less important than his? Yours? Absolutely not. Fine, whatever. Did he have to suggest my relationship was akin to incest? No — and I really, really, really wish he hadn’t.
Bush/Cheney were honest where they stood with the LGBT community — and they never wavered. The Dems (Clinton AND Obama) actively courted our vote — one of them passed both DOMA and DADT. The other, who proclaimed himself a “fierce advocate of LGBT” rights (his words, unsolicited), has suggested my relationship is akin to incest, invited notorious homophobe Rick Warren (who donated time and money to Prop 8’s passing) to open Day ONE, and kept exactly zero of his promises to the LGBT community.
Do I think he has bigger fish to fry? Yep. The economy, two wars, health care — all bigger issues than me. But, man, do I feel left out and abandoned. I’m all for him saying, “I have bigger fish to fry” — instead, he says, “my relationship is sacred” (implying mine isn’t) and has his Dept. of “justice” block my right to marry. All while telling us he’s a “fierce advocate” of my rights.
“YES we can! (we just choose not to…..)”
SBJ is right on! Obama keeps trying to have it both ways — he gets bad press for Rick Warren. Says nothing. The anger grows. He throws us Gene Robinson, who opens not Inauguration Day, but the concert three days before. A concert?
Now he’s getting bad press for not even HEARING the arguments for gay marriage (let alone calling us akin to incesters). So what does he do? An extension of benefits to the partners of LGBT federal employees.
Like our economy can handle that.
Another absloutely cynical, very insulting gesture from the self-proclaimed “fierce advocate” of LGBT rights.
note to the “fierce advocate” and his staff attending this meeting:
don’t expect a kissy, kissy let’s all make nice and get along meeting. your words have been proven hollow. your rhetoric has not matched your actions.
even a dog that’s been abused will only take the kicking for so long. that’s what people are finally seeing from MY community. we’re tired of being kicked around and then told to “shut up and wait our turn”.
why did we expect anything different this go around? because “fierce advocate” campaigned and courted us on a platform that elevated our issues to the top issues of the day. don’t believe me? the money quote comes at the 3 minute mark:
“when it comes to my attitudes about whether this is a priority or not, I will put it at the top of the list along with many other issues”.
http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001841/
***” All talk, no hat, as they say.”***
I believe the phrase is “all hat, no cattle.”
If you have trouble understanding that, just picture George Bush.
Oh SISTA! How wrong you are! I do think the militant gay activists can be at times a bit demanding, but for every average GLTB person in America – we expected more fomr your BROTHA than we have seen so far. He does know that we have waited patiently and sometimes not so patiently for equal rights, just like your ancestors. And the time is now for him to take it to the hyprocritical self righteous right wing and demand basic rights for the community that supported his election so strongly. There will never be a better time to promote basic rights and he can make history with a few quick strokes of his pen. He still wants everyone to like him and that is getting in the way of what he knows is right! He needs to get his Kenyan-Hawaiian-American balls back and JUST DO IT.
Yeah, you LGBT brats! Obama has bigger fish to fry than allowing you to be treated like citizens in a constitutional democracy. Where the hell do you get off wanting human rights, anyway. Shutup, payup, and do what you’re told.
The ENTIRE gay rights movement began when LGBTs (T’s, mostly!) got angry and started fighting back, literally.
Being passive doesn’t work. The LGBT community has been passive for far too long. If you aren’t angry, you haven’t been paying attention.
And if our anger interferes, GOOD! That’s the point.
Why are all appearances of the word “****,” plural of “gay,” being censored, as is the word “***” as in whether one is male or female (or what people do in bed with each other)? These are not derogatory or impolite words.
Sojourner wrote on June 19th, 2009 at 03:17 pm,
“but when the admin equates GLBT people and their relationships with incest and pedophilia, then they invite the backlash they are getting”…….. What????????
How in the He_iL do you think that you sleeping with the same *** any less immoral than incest or pedophilia?
Homosexuality is just as immoral as the other two perversion you mention- including some you didn’t mention. All of these perversions, homosexuality included, doesn’t take place with an adult person of the opposite ***. The Justice department brief was correct to draw the parallel and comparison lawfully and logically.
It is just beyond stupidity how the gay community and homo’s wishes to believe that their sexual perversion and psycho-social ills are not abnormal or immoral.
Please don’t think society should accept and ignore your immoral desire to sleep with the same-*** and not classify it with the immoral acts or desires of incest, pedophilia, beastiality, or necrophilia. You all are all doing something that wasn’t intended and is not the proper paring of the human species- scientifically or religiously.
So, stop feeling that you have an entitlement to normalcy when what you are doing is abnormal.
And stop thinking we(America) is going to stop calling it what you do what it really is and classify it as such. You being a human does not allow you to have *** with anything and everybody and expect it to be call morally right.
You **** should get over yourself and I would be glad when society and the proper court classify your perversion for what it is and criminalize it to the confines of your homes. You only deserve the right to work and to keep people from beating the living heiL out of you for choosing to conduct homosexual acts over hunting for and make opposite-*** relationships work.
What you **** do is against the intended pairing of the sexes so don’t expect a pass on your behavior and acts when it is compared to other immoral and un-natural sexual acts that doesn’t take place between adult people of the opposite ***.
So go ahead and be mad, but the DOJ brief call it like it is and Moral laws are meant to be upheld, restrictive, and discriminatory to the ill desires of an immoral, un-natural, and abnormal people who want to do immoral things.
You have no moral right to be sexually oriented to the same-*** gender no more that the pedophile or the incestous male and female couple has a right to be sexually orientated to their sexual desires. Either way, all of you are wrong in what you are doing- so do expect acceptance or a pass from America.
Wait, can I write “******” or “homos”? This is just a test to see what the system is censoring. I’ll be pissed if “****” can’t appear but these other words can…
Just what I thought. Boycott this website.
Mark in Chicago | June 19th, 2009 at 04:04 pm ,
Do you really believe your choice and then sexual desire for men and women choice and desire for women is not as un-natural or immoral as someone with the sexual orientation or desire to have X*x a child, underage teenager, animals, or relatives?
Maybe you think all of that is ok too as long as you are a human who can claim the s*x with the above is a human right and you have a right to do it?
I am amazed at the level people will go to when they want to do wrongful stuff in a society. Maybe we should just allow women to prostitute or men to marry every woman they can because they should have an equal right to do it and if we didn’t allow them to do these illegal and immoral things then they can sue law enforcement officers and the government for discrimination.
Get real, Mark in Chicago, you are clearly ill with ignorant-itis in which your jayness has overwhelmed your brain.
I support full equal rights for the gay community. I donate to the legal fund to fight DADT firings. I do, however, have a problem with the tone, rage and demands the community is making at this time. In light of the huge problems the President is dealing with, he has done a great job of starting to right this Ship. If we were at the end of his first time, then I could better understand the extreme tone, rage and demands. As for threatening to withhold votes, funds and support, I see that as counterproductive to your goals. If anything, the community should be out there full force fundraising etc. for the 2010 elections. If the President gains more Dems in the House and Senate, then he will have a whole lot more leverage in seeing that full equality is won, DOMA is repealed, DADT is repealed and all of his commitments to the community are met. The community should do everything in their power to enable the President to get the job done. This is your time and the President is your best and most fierce advocate ever. Help him get the job done. Stand with him.
Obama got 10% LESS vote fron LGBT then KERRY!
So were talking about DEMOCRATIC LGBT.
During the primaries LGBT were overwhelmy for Clinton, despite her husband record of DADT and DORMA.
I understand you want equality, but some LGBT need to stop re-wrtting history.
They did NOT support OBAMA.
What part of suggesting that gay marriage is akin to incest is a “great job of starting to right this ship”?
This country GRANTS rights. Can you recall a time when rights were granted and then TAKEN AWAY? I can. Prop 8 in California.
And the President’s stance? He ignores it. That’s not change. That’s more of the same. And it flies in the face (or should I say faces) of Obama, who in 1996 not only promised “unequivocal support” of gay MARRIAGE, but vowed he’d stand up against any effort to block it.
Now he says his marriage is “sacred” and that mine is not — worse, it’s like incest.
You can expect Obama to make some “gesture” to the LGBT community in mid to late 2011, just about when he’ll begin campaigning. If LGBTs allow themselves to be courted and wooed by this charlatan AGAIN, we deserve everything we get.
That said, I’d like to address MaryanneZ: why should my equality wait one more day, let alone til the end of his first term? Why shouldn’t I be angry that my brother can have three marriages and I can’t have one?
It’s never a good sign when someone begins by saying, “I support equality.” There’s usually a “but” coming. Here, Maryanne’s “but” is that we’re demanding equality in a way that interferes with her day. GOOD. That’s the point.
Maryanne, if you don’t understand the anger and rage (indeed, you just about shame the LGBT community, dismissing its justified anger, rage and tone), you don’t really get it at all.
Please don’t tell us we should go out and campaign for Dems who are NOT our friends, they are NOT our supporters (except whne they need our vote). You’re suggesting we say, “Thank you, Sir! May I have another?”
That is wildly insulting.
ENABLE the President to get the job done? I have a feeling you mean to suggest that we can’t criticize, that we have no right to be angry.
flby, can we get a source on your stats? Not doubting you, necessarily — just curios as to where you got those numbers.
On the off chance that “Itdoesn’tmakeSense” isn’t a troll, the only “choice” I made about my sexual orientation is to be acknowledge it and accept it.
mysista – It may have more to do with Donnie McKlurkin being gay and closeted than it has to do with him singing at an event. Ever think of that?
Good for them. Still we should boycott and withhold GLBT dollars until they produce results. And don’t be quiet, that makes it too easy to ignore us. Its time to end discrimination. And to all you bigots out there why don’t you go burn a cross, I’m sure God will like that just as much as he appreciates your hate.
@ craig,
Mr. Craig, to you think a pedophile should have the right to have sexual desires for children? Do you believe in incest? Do you believe men or women should have the right to sleep with underage teens- even when their consent?
If not, then you are a bigot against these people immoral desires. Stop using the term bigot when it does not apply to racially charged behavior or thought. People who disagree over an immoral issue are not bigots.
If that was case then everything that you disagree with makes you a bigot yourself. Can some Americans with computers saying things like you just did be such morons? Well, I guess so, since you are posting and calling people who disagree with you or who stand up for wrong and immoral things a bigot.
Stop proving us right about your homosexual agenda, be smart and shut the heil up and be glad you aren’t classified and criminalize the same way polygomist, pedophiles, and beastophiles are.
They are all un-natural and immoral acts of se*x that get people put in jail and on a *** offender list. Why should the law be different for the pursuit of S*ex with people of the same-s*x? eh?????
I neither condemn nor adore the gay community. I think everyone has a right to choose. That having been said, I do not feel that your issue is any more important than issues that effect the whole community. I am for health care. But I am not going to put the President down, just because he can’t get it done just yet. I know it takes time and effort to get things done. When I say time, I think it takes more than 5 months. You may not have been promised anything by Bush and Cheney, but they were still President an Vice Pres. of the whole U.S.A. Your taxes paid them and no doubt many in your “community” gave money to their campaign. Afford Pres. Obama the same respect you paid them. Let him do his job for everyone.
This is another splashy show to make desperate **** think he is actually going to do something for them. If anyone is holding their breath wating for Barack Bush to overturn DOMA and DADT, I want some of what they are smoking. They are like Glen Close in Fatal Attraction. Gone, bonkers. They will rationalize everything he does bc they think they are the Messiah’s disciples, like Moonies.
Barack Bush may do something about hate crimes, possibly. When and if he does any small miniscule thing be sure it will be noted as “historic”.
The guy is bailing out every single one of his filthy rich friends with taxpayer dollars while eveyrone loses their jobs. And he’s still not finished. He won’t be happy until the government owns every single company in the nation. You can’t audit the government, ya know.
He has no plans of bringing the troops home, last I heard it was during “this term” … after promising to bring them home in 1 year, then 16 months, then it was 24 months, now it’s just not happening. He has incidentally sent 30,000 troops to Afghanistan and instead accelerated the War on Terror that he pledged to end. He announced the 30,000 troops on the same day that he announced the stim. That’s what you call Bush leak. There will be 100,000 troops in Afghanistan by this years end.
He has expanded the Patriot Act after promising to end it.
He pledged transparency on the stim but has instead signed papers to make sure he doesn’t have to tell anyone what he is doing with trillions of tax payer dollars.
The guy is a bigot on marriage. Considering that his parents wouldn’t have been allowed to be married a few short decades ago makes him one of the most detestable hypocrites on this issues than anyone else.
Hillary is no saint but she would have never been able to get away with this level of betrayal. They would have reamed into her starting day one. It took 6 months and lie after lie after lie after betrayl after betrayl for **** to final sort of wake up from the Obama Opium they’ve been smoking.
If Democrats cared about LGBTQ we would not have to be out in the streets like wild dogs begging for the most basic of civil rights. If they cared so much, we could put our feet up on the desk and Barack Bush would take care of all that for us. Most of these gay orgs are nothing more than mouth pieces for the Democratic party and unfortunately gay people are not their client – democrats are … and they love some dinner parties and photo-ops with Barack Bush.
You get what you vote for folks. Next time do your research, instead of calling members of your own community racists for not voting for the Bigot.
why does this site cencor the word g a y ?
For real? I think that if you have chosen to be gay, then you have to understand what that kind of choice brings. It is like choosing to rape a woman, or touch little kids, it is a choice. If anyone needs proof, there is something called evolution. We, as a species, could never have survived if being gay was something that was born into us as a species. It is time to quit whining and crying and grow the hell up. All the rest of us are pretty sick of everything having to be gayed out, just because a small percentage of people decided that they want to fiddle around with the same ***!!
I am a straight white female who totally supports marriage equality and all LGBT rights. I moved to California from the Bible Belt because California seemed progressive. I worked to prevent Prop8 from being passed and was horrified when it passed. I am so embarrassed for California. But all of us who are for progressive causes need to band together to fight oppression of EVERY oppressed group. All of this sniping amongst ourselves, between our groups, only strengthens the oppressors, the conservatives. Being female I am from a group that has been oppressed since the beginning of humankind and I support human rights, civil rights, and equality for all groups. I pray others will do the same. There is a saying, when one of us is not free, none of us are free.
For far too long we were told by the Dems, “We need your MONEY to get control of Congress and the White House. Then we can move on the important gay issues”. We gave the money, the Dems got control of the White House and Congress, and we got nothing. Why continue to give money to the DNC when they have done nothing? There are plenty of local organizations and candidates at the local level that we can get much more bang for the buck.
Be patient, I’m sure the President will tell you everything you want to hear.
@Mark in Chicago, please see my @craig advisory. The old se*xual profession of street love with the opposite *** should have equality rights before g&ay relationships are forced upon society for acceptance.
At least, for those who are doing the opposite-s&ex, they aren’t breaking any natural or moral laws because they are doing it with people as it was intended to be with. But please keep pushing the rage and anger, it just keep building resentment for your kind by the mainstream of Americans.
You folks just should be cameleon and hide among straight people with your sickness because we are never going to call what you do normal- not as long as this is a democracy and we have our freedom for religious standards, religious thoughts, and moral family values.
“mysista” is likely neither black nor female. It’s a conservative, old white guy hiding behind an anonymous Internet identity.
Clearly, most people understand this dumb and cowardly “hit and run” attack for what it is.
“Itdoesn’tmakeSense” is absolutely right: People of his ilk will never accept gay people as fellow human beings. But, people like “Itdoesn’tmakeSense” are part of an increasingly smaller and less powerful minority.
Soon, people like “Itdoesn’tmakeSense” will be no more common than white supremacists. And, deep in their hearts, they realize this, which is why they’re sounding so hateful and so desperate. They’ve lost the respect of most average Americans and they’ll never regain it.
MaryanneAZ | June 19th, 2009 at 05:17 pm
Mary Anne, apparently the vote on Prop 102 didn’t have the affect on you as it did for the LBGT here in AZ. That’s really too bad, because those of us in AZ could really use your continued support. Remember, Mary Anne, we have a Brewer (anti-gay marriage and anti-abortion) as Gov now that Napolitano has moved to DHS. (Tucson)
[Considering that his parents wouldn’t have been allowed to be married a few short decades ago makes him one of the most detestable hypocrites on this issues than anyone else.]
Just an FYI….Obama’s parents were never legally married. Obama Senior never divorced his first wife. If you research him, as you suggested, you’ll find that it is true.
ain’t this a cryin shame? game? what’s next? will ya’ll git tired of man with man and woman with woman and start screamin you are entitled to marry your dog Lassie because you love her so much? Or will the puppy dog’s name be Laddie?
@Hollywoodgothic,
We, or at least I, understand why you are saying what you are saying.
Sometimes we jump on the wrong band wagon to feel good about ourselves or break bread with those who would pressure us in a new environment. If we move to a new town, we start supporting or liking the same sports team that the town has.
But it takes a bigger and stronger person to stand up against immorality in a society when their surroundings are doing wrong and standing against them seem to make you think that you will not be befriended if you oppose the pressure to agree with the wrongful acts.
Re-evalute your soul and morals on the consequences of SSM and unions on our teens, childrens, and our future.
Loose liberties doesn’t create strong societies-they invite decay and the downfall of them.
Good point, sassy. The DOJ should have put that in the brief. That was along the line of their argument.
@jsoy,
r u sure? Last I counted or was informed, there were 30 plus states of people who decidely said by vote and referendum that we do not accept or want homosexuality in our society. Only six(6) states legislation-not the people forced the g*a*y upon it’s citizens. The other 44 states have consitutional language that says its not acceptable.
So, how is it that you can quantify that their are not a lot of Americans out there that still have Christian values and morals? eh?
you are all so fucked up
I myself am not gay myself but I still think they should have the right to get married if want. This religious right that is so dead set against I wonder how they can sleep at night knowing that they are discriminating against gods children. And don’t tell me that they are not one of them. We all are regardless of race, creed, or color. And they should the same right that everyone else does. There have been changes made since the beginning of time and I see no reason that this couldn’t be one of those changes. And like I heard one of them say there are more child molesters that are straight that there ever was gay. And as for incest that is found mainly around straight people as well.
I’ve read the 54 page decision that was handed down by the USSC and it was a joke. They added all kinds of thrash in there that had nothing to do what so ever with what these people are fighting for. It’s nothing more than a bunch of one sided judges that are trying to give the impression that they are smarter than the rest of the people when really I don’t put much faith in some of the ones setting on that court.
The United States has always been racist one way or another rather it be against black, Mexicans, or any other breed of people that don’t match their believes.
This is the 21st century and it is time for change. And real meaningful change at that. We have a black president now and I can remember a time when nobody thought that would ever happen. The older generations have been living in the ice ages for so long that they couldn’t find their own rear end if it wasn’t for someone showing them where it is at.
I know there will be a bunch of hate mongers on here putting me down for me stating my point of view on this matter and to tell you the truth I could really care less. I’ve seen racist trash take place all my life and I’m getting damn tired of it. I had to put up with it in the service back in the 70’s when it was really running wild with it then. And I didn’t like it then either. In fact two or three of my closet friends was either black or Mexican. And they was really true friends that was there for me when I really needed them the most. So you people that are against this stuff with the **** just wanting to be treated equal need to back off and see that it is not going to hurt you in anyway shape or form. Step into the 21st century. we are no longer living in the past as so many of you seem to think you are.
This is just more proof that….
voting for a democrat is gay
don’t be gay (stupid, perverted, lame, depraved, *****)
-
The defense of DOMA was a heinous act. The excuse was pitiful.
Let’s face it, there most definitely IS a war going on, but it is not a war a violence, it is a war of justice.
In one corner stands Love. In the opposite corner stands Fear (hate is derived from fear).
Love will be our sword and our shield, because we know that The Lord could not create a straight person and a gay person and not love them equally, could not want both to have equal rights.
And as a straight male, I know we will win, because in the end Love will always defeat hate.
This is just more proof that….
-
-
voting for a democrat is gay
-
-
don’t be gay (stupid, perverted, lame, depraved, *****)
-
-
Regardless of how you feel about the issue, the bottom line is marriage is a state issue, not a federal issue. And according to the 10th amendment, the federal government doesn’t have the power to do anything that the constitution doesn’t explicitly say they can. Requiring all states to acknowledge same *** marriage requires an amendment to the constitution, which requires 2/3rds of Congress to even propose it and 3/4ths of ALL states to approve it.
Therefore if you really feel strongly about same *** marriage, regardless of which side of the equation you fall on, you need to look to your state legislation and your state Governor not Obama and Congress. If you are giving your money to Obama and Congress primarily for this issue, I’m sorry to say, but you are wasting your money. They can only acknowledge or reject same *** marriage at the federal level (i.e. tax benefits, social security benefits and other FEDERAL benefits) etc. Since the federal government doesn’t do marriage ceremonies they simply don’t have the power to legislate who can get married in the state you live in. Only your state government can do that.
The constitution guarantees the right to practice religion and free speech. the idea tha anyone that disagrees with homosexuality is the real danger. You can disagree with smoking and still love the smoker. Ultimately “the most basic rights in this country are annotated in the constitution. The right to force people of varying faiths and cultural beliefs to bless homosexuality isn’t there.
@Dennis Buskirk,
Hold on Mr. Buskirk, don’t bust a pipe. We, or least I am, on the issue of classifying or separting the immorality of homosexuality to that of the other s&exual perversions.
In saying that, then Mr. Dennis Buskirk, you are advocating and saying that all s&exual desires, perversion, and orientations should be regardless if it’s immoral? Why deny these people their s&xual desires?
Most americans don’t mind giving compassion and being empathetic, but the issue has to be a moral one. Homos&exuality is clearly a violation of the pairing of the s*e*x*es !!
You can’t ask society to throw away morals and good values just because it the 21st century. Are you?
Yes, God loves us all, whether we are gay or straight or have no *** life at all. He also loves theives, murderers, rapists and crooked politicians, but that does not mean He approves of the actions of all. He spells it out clearly in His Word the difference between right and wrong, but until you sincerely want to know the truth, He will allow you to believe whatever lie you choose to believe.
Obama’s faith based initiative is paying off tonight.
If homosexuality is “unnatural”, then why do they have all these new studies showing that homosexuality is prevalant throughout the animal kingdom? See the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
Furthermore, for those of you who say that homosexuality is a choice, as a guy, I can tell you that I cannot “choose” what makes my d**k hard. It’s not a choice, it’s an involuntary response to a stimulus. Homosexual acts may be a choice, but homosexual arousal (i.e. getting aroused by seeing someone of the same ***) is not.
And to compare homosexuality between two consenting adults to bestiality and pedophilia is truly insulting!! A dog cannot consent to *** with a man, and a child has not yet reached the legal age of consent.
Viagra seems unnatural to me. I haven’t even seen it around the gay male community.
WTF. We are a country fighting more than one war, have political unrest to deal with in several other countries, are in the middle of an economic meltdown and are about to have N. Korea launch a missle close to one of our states and we need to take time out for this? I don’t care what gets your dick hard and it is none of your business what gets me off, so keep it to yourself and your partner where it belongs. Let our leadeers, as awful as they may be, deal with the issues of running our county and keeping us safe.
Does a pedophile choose to be aroused by children. He can choose to not engage in sexual behavior with children. The bottom line is that no society or culture in the last 5000 years of human civilization has recognized same *** unions. You can disagree but to argue that anyone that doe not see things your way is a troll or bigot is dangerous. What should Christians call anyone who does not accept the Gospels? Should we persecute Jews and Muslims and treat them like white supremicists? This is an issue of morality and not an immutable state of being such as skin color. Why not allow people to marry as many people as they choose?, why recognize marriage at all? why not allow prostitution? Why do some feel the constitution apparently only protects homosexual behavior and no others? As strongly as homosexuals feel about their lifestyle, christians feel just as strongly about their faith which explicitly condemns same *** behavior. We can agree to disagree and love one another or we can go to war.
@No Bullroar,
The Lord didn’t create a g*a*y person. The Lord, if you are applying religious dogma, the lord created a straight man and woman. Society(media and people) and psycho-social and emotional conditions created the g*a*y person in which they chose an alternative to satisfy there need of s&exual desires and need to feel wanted.
G*a*y people should have redirected and controlled there emotional illness and emptiness, as well as, their s&exual drive(Labido) and sought or worked harder for opposite-s*e*x relationships.
The body can send the mind into some bad places looking for satisfaction. We as humans have to have the ability to be strong and make the right choices when dealing with our labido and things in our environment that present alternative opportunities to quell the lust and desire?
You have a choice- is it going to be celebacy, monogamy, promiscuity, or g*a*yness. This is just the truth, so I don’t pity the LGBT people at all. They chose the path of homosexuality in which they are being ridicule for. People should have better control of their minds and ge*nit&alia.
They knew it was against the norm but played with the fire thinking that they would win over Christian values and Americans. More than anything they did it because they felt they could hide in their own little g*a*y community or g-family.
Well, that was working for them until they decided to push the envelop to force america to accept their lifestyle and behavior. They only hurt themselves more with all the noise as this is not comparable to race- which is not a choice. That’s why everything in the world is a different color.
There is only two kinds of s*e*xes- male and female and some birth defects. Birth defects and manipulation don’t count as a choice for one or the other should be made.
If Same-S*e*x was meant to be, there would be only one s*e*x with that s*e*x having the ability to reproduce on it’s own.
A lawyer can’t argue against this, the Supreme Court can’t argue against this, and the writers of the Constitution didn’t mean this when they added the words life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The meant this toward the progress of all things morally and naturally.
Let me guess, the check is in the mail.
WTF? Who uses the term “powow” and gets away with such cultural insensitivity? Is the writer Native American?
“As strongly as homosexuals feel about their lifestyle, christians feel just as strongly about their faith which explicitly condemns same *** behavior.”
Well then don’t have *** with a man, Cal Guy.
This isnt brain surjury ! Love the sinner-hate the sin !
Try living for christ ! Repent and be saved Try prayer!
Good luck & God Bless
Well, well, well. My point is being made rather clearly in here.
First: For all those of you who seem to think I’m not black, let me assure you. I am 100% African American, so you can feel free to eat your hats whenever you like. Here I am, know-it-alls: http://mysistagirl.com
Second: For all those of you who swear I’m a republican troll, you’re wrong again. I am a card carrying democrat and have been for the last 30 years. I’m not posting my voters registration card to prove that to you.
Third: As a lifelong democrat, I actually once had a ton of tolerance for the gay rights movement. Being a democrat, you have to have some measure of tolerance for it, because we share the same political party and platform. But NO MORE! I have seen too much vile, immature, vindictive, and utterly selfish behavior from your community. Yes, I called you brats and I stand by it. Just look at your behavior in this thread. I rest my case.
Forth: How much huberis you must have to think that YOU can lecture me or any black folks about civil rights, MLK, fierce urgency, struggles, etc? You are BEYOND arrogant to even try. Currently, the black community is in dire straights. Facing a criminal justice system that rigged to destroy families, the worst poverty levels in this country, ridiculously inferrior education, pandemic HIV levels, deteriorating neighborhoods, the lowest level of health care, the highest infant mortality rates, and on and on. Don’t you think WE desperately need the President to address these issues as he promised? Absolutely we do, and whether you like it or not, these issues are FAR more pressing and devastating to people than who the heck you want to marry & have *** with, or than your right to wave your gay banner in the military. But we (blacks) get it! We understand the overwhelming issues that this President is having to deal with. We’ve done the struggle thing over and over. We understand priorities, we know how to endure with patience while we press on until the victory is won. I have every confidence that President Obama WILL address the urgent issues in our community, but I NEVER expected him to have it done in 5 MONTHS, nor did I expect him to have it at the top of his agenda with all the other dire matters he’s dealing with. You wanna take a page out of the civil rights movement? Learn some darn patience, consideration and selfLESSness.
Fifth: You are simply wrong about the language used in the DOMA brief. You erroneously insist that homosexuality was equated with incest and pedophillia. That simply is not true. MARRIAGE among the different groups was compared in order to make the point that there are restrictions in marriage for more groups than just homosexuals, and if we remove the restrictions for homosexuals, do we then give a whole host of other groups a basis for demanding the same? THAT was the point of the language. At NO TIME did anyone assert that homosexuality itself is the same as incest and pedophillia. It was about the current restrictions of marriage. In your desperation to be the eternal victim, you are completely twisting and taking it out of context.
Sixth: Speaking of that DOMA brief, not only are you taking the language out of context, but it is HYPOCRITICAL of you to feign outrage over it. Blacks in this country, for hundreds of years, suffered enslavement, hard labor, whips and chains, raping of women, separation of families, lynchings, jim crow, being considered not human, etc. Now, here you all are EQUATING your struggle for who you want to marry & have *** with, and your right to announce your sexuality in the military, with ALL THE ABOVE by calling it urgent civil rights! How the heck do you think blacks feel about that nonsense? You’re screaming about the DOMA brief equating you with something you find insulting, and all the while, blacks have to listen to you hijack and dumb down civil rights and the struggles of black folks to be equal to what amounts to nothing more than your sexual preferences. HA! Pot, meet the kettle!
Seventh: I read today where the LGBT organizers in California are running ads targeted at the black community in order to garner more support for their cause. Well, if you think that attacking, maligning, and demonizing President Obama’s 5 MONTH old administration by calling him a traitor and sell out, and insulting black folks with your ridiculous notion of civil rights struggles, while your leadership runs some twisted commercials asking for support is going to garner it, then you’re really dense. All I can say is, good luck with that atrocious approach!
Eighth and last: About your constant use of the made-up word homophobia. You should probably learn what a PHOBIA is before you try to label people with it. A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, phóbos, “fear”), or MORBID FEAR’, is an irrational, intense, persistent FEAR of certain situations, activities, things, or people. The main symptom of this disorder is the excessive, unreasonable desire to avoid the FEARED subject. Listen, nobody is afraid of you all, they just disagree with your paradigm. That does not automatically equal a FEAR of you. I don’t like the color yellow, but it’s certainly not because I fear it–I just don’t like it, darnit! You use the term PHOBIA against anyone that disagrees with you, and that is simply not the correct usage of the word. I have LGBT persons working in the same office with me. If I suffered from a MORBID FEAR of them which is what a phobia is, I couldn’t even be there. I take serious issue with their agenda and it’s got nothing whatsoever to do with FEAR. Learn the difference so you can stop misplacing your labels. You’re just trying to place a stigma on your detractors in order to feel better about yourselves. I guess misery really does love company, so knock yourselves out.
P.S. to the poster named DH: Your post was right on point and well said. Unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears because like I said earlier, ya can’t reason with the unreasonable.
I know it doesn’t make sense to you, itdoesn’tmakeSense. Maybe Jesus will explain it to you when he is explaining the parable of the sheep and the goats.
Yeah, Cal guy, you said it. I’ve got friends and relatives who are gay and/or bi-sexual that I love dearly, but that does not mean I agree with, or condone their lifestyle, no more than I condone the lifestyle of friends and family who overindulge in alcohol, or do drugs, etc. Yes, as you said, we can love others regardless of who they are, or what they do, without having to agree with them or keep quiet about our belief. Freedom of speech is supposed to be one of our constitutional rights, one that I aim to keep.
@ko,
The comparison for the acts is whether any of them are immoral or natural, not whether consent can be gain from the other participant.
Regardless, it’s all sickening and un-natural according to the intended purpose of copulation for humans for intimacy and the pairing of the s*exes.
Regardless, the biggest point is morality and whether even one person sexual orientation and desire is being discriminated against. Isn’t this the LGBT crutch. That if one ho*mo*sexual orientation is being denied they are being discriminated against.
Most people making these comparison are not advocatint or condoning such acts- we are just drawing the parallel for g*a*y*s who don’t want to admit the immorality of having s*e*x with people of the same-s*e*x is as un-natural and wrong as the other perversion.
I have major problem with how the politicians feel when the GLBT community gets mad throw them a bone and the will lay down again. Civil rights are guarenteed by the Constitution not the DNC. But we as a community are responsible for the condition by having a short memory. We get kicked lick our wounds but come back for more. President Truman desegerated by the military by executive order now the Presidents wants an act of Congress. Does the President realize that not long ago is parents couldn’t legally marry. Now that everyone wants to boycott the DNC fund raiser theAdministrations wants to talk Talk is cheap action speak louder than words. Also if a Republican had used the resons to defend DOMA that the justice department did Barney Frank would have to be scrapped off the cielling. Double standard?
Thank you all for the input. Most of you have made the case as to why the LGBT community should have equal rights and protections under the law very well. Perhaps better than us homosexuals did. Thank you again for your continued commitment to bigotry. Oh and please join us for the March on DC in OCT. Your hateful signage will be greatly appreciated.
Well, some of you are proving that some **** are indeed inclined to act childish, just as some people of color are insensitive to any oppression but their own. Nice work, folks!
To the self-satisfied bigot who calls herself ‘mysista’
I’m glad you’re not.
You sound like someone who lost a boyfriend to the down-low. Sorry, but you really should go read the words of Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King. Your attitude is no different from any random redneck in the KKK — the only difference is the object of your derision.
Discrimination is not okay against ANYBODY.
To the religious extremists who believe that your religion must be applied to everyone in the USA:
“The Government of the United States is NOT, in ANY sense, founded on the Christian Religion”. — John Adams
“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”
-Thomas Jefferson, Dec. 6, 1813.
The Bible was once used to justify slavery, because slavery existed in the bible. Using it to justify one-man-one-woman is ludicrous, because the most common form of marriage in that book is polygamy – one man, wives + concubines.
This issue is outside your religion, because — surprise! — we don’t all believe in your religion or belong to your church. If you want to live in a country that is run by its religous fundamentalists, move to Iran.
This is America, and this issue is equal justice under the law.
That is all.
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”-Thomas Jefferson, February 10, 1814
@La, June 19th, 2009 at 09:52 pm
But it does make sense to me. That why I am against it.
I am with Jesus Christ on any parable that he fosters as god will concerning sheeps and goats. They are animals. As stated earlier, most people use these comparison to contrast immorality versus morality.
Have you not been reading my post intelligently?
@Dale8 ,
If you can’t argue or debate the logic don’t comment with snide remarks.
Let me guess, the checks in the mail for you; you don’t have your GED ; and you are LGBT. It figures.
Look, the only thing the gay community wants is the right to cornhole each other.
And by so doing spread diseases, STD’s and and confusion to the masses.
And then since this all began we have had nothing but natural disasters as a punishment from God!
And besides that, I saw the homosexuals beat up a 69 year old Christian woman and slam her cross to the ground! WOW!
Shane –no surprise that a homophobe like you would vote for Obama.
Lets recap Obama’s actions toward the GLBT community, shall we?
1. He is against same-*** marriage;
2. He defends DOMA in court, while calling for its repeal, which he could effectively achieve by declining to defend DOMA in court;
3. Is iffy, at best, on DADT, saying the US government must have the best people regardless of sexual orientation all while military translators are being discharged for no other reason but the fact that they are gay;
4. Is friends with known homophobes like McClurkin, Meeks & Rick Warren, while shunning Newsome.
5. He refused to go to a gay pride parade in Chicago last summer (he went the the gym & got his hair cut instead);
6. Appointed homophobe Kaine as head of the DNC.
But besides all that, he is a “fierce advocate” for gay rights.
To the sensationalist and eternal victim that calls her/him self “granny”
You said: “I’m glad you’re not.”
I say: Not half as glad as I am!
You said: “You sound like someone who lost a boyfriend to the downlow”
I say: I’m always amused at how LGBT people use their own vile lifestyle to attempt to insult their detractors. Hmmm, says more about YOU than it does me. And you’re wrong anyway, as usual.
You said: “Sorry, but you really should go read the words of Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King.”
I say: See my previous post about how ludicrous it is for you to lecture ME about such things. Not only do I know their words, but I and my ancestors LIVED them. Part of your problem is the arrogance of presuming you know more about it.
You said: “Your attitude is no different from any random redneck in the KKK — the only difference is the object of your derision.”
I say: This is why I called you a sensationalist. If you believe this then you don’t know jack about the mission of the kkk in the first place. There is nowhere in my postings where I called for the murder or elimination of people because they were gay, so THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. You REALLY need to get a grip on understanding when someone simply disagrees with you or expresses dissent from you. If you understand THAT then you can stop misplacing your labels. But of course, you would have to be “reasonable” to do that, so I digress.
toodles…
im a tantric therapist, and when I see everyone getting all upset about what obama is NOT doing,, just remember it in 2012,,
he knows better than to upset the gay community, or face the same fate as miss california!!
kinkmassage dot com
peace and blessings
Hey look, I didn’t vote for Obama. I saw enough bigotry from the homosexuals (Perez Hilton) against Miss Ca.
Cornholing does NOT need a license!
@ AMH:
Obama now has to have his choice of friends meet the approval of the LGBT community? Oh brother! It’ worse than I thought. Your entire post sounds like you think he was elected President of LGBT America.
YOU are nucking futs!!!
Wow
Shane that is one of the single most hateful things I have ever read on the internet
“the right to cornhole eachother”
Dude WTF?!
I’ve NEVER known anyone in lgbt community to resort to violence
I’m sure it has happened but most far less in proportion to the violence perpetrated against them. And blaming natural disasters on them? thats asinine beyond comprehension, just utterly moronic. I’m stunned
The lgbt community should though, be glad theyre getting any attention from this administration, given the mountain of problems they (the obama admin) are trying to get done, the economy and healthcare and 2 wars among them, once they get through all that they can focus more on the interests of specific groups whose problems are not as big as those affecting the whole world
eightmaps dot com
you can see where ALL the bigots are who contributed to prop 8 passing last year
go pay em a visit , in the middle of the night, they are already scared to death for finding out contributing to bigotry gets their names on the internet for ALL to see!
Paul — with all due respect, can the “Obama is smarter than all of us.” No, he is smarter than YOU. I see through his lies & b.s. I take him by his ACTIONS not his WORDS. If the Dems. want gay money, they need to start delivering on their EXPLICIT PROMISES. Furthermore, it isn’t that Obama isn’t keeping his promises to the GLBT community, he is doing the EXACT opposite of what he says he will do. (Says he will repeal DOMA, but defends it with the most vile lies; says he will end DADT, but allows military translators to be fired for no other reason than they are gay). Obama cannot be trusted.
The point I’m making La is not that Christianity should be forced on anyone but neither should homosexuality. One can argue How does polygamy affect you?, prostituion?, public nudity? All laws are based on some moral code. Where do we draw the line. At your rights? Has every society that has existed on earth been wrong about this. This includes muslims,jews, hindu, buddist, animist et al. I believe male and female exist for a reason. You can disagree. Right now today a same *** couple can live together and even have a marriage cermony and commit themselves to one another. Why is it important that Christians be forced to recognize this? Live your life and be happy. You don’t need my acceptance or the blessing of the government. I have had homosexuals over my house and watched movies. This has nothing to do with fear or hatred. I do not hate homosexuals anymore than I would hate smokers although I disapprove of it. BTW a quote from John Jay, “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. National prosperity can neither be obtained nor preserved without the favor of Providence.”
@ mysista — no you f*cking loon, Obama doesn’t need his friends chosen by the LGBT community — the LGBT community should wake up & see him for who he is — a man who hangs out with homophobes — McClurkin, Kmeic, Meeks & Kaine — and not trust one word that he says about how he is going to be a “fierce advocate” for gay rights. Look at his actions. Look at who he gets advice from. You f*cking moron.
im glad i wrote in hillary clinton last year,, as i WARNED you all about obama,, and now look what hes done, thrown us under the bus!
Nate, You know what I am talking about. Al the homosexuals want to do is “cornhole” each other. It is a term used behind closed doors, in bars and bathhouses. Don’t act like yo don’t know what it means.
and yes, the **** ARE bringing Gods judgement on the Nation by causing Natural disasters and diseses.
90% of my massage clients are MARRIED men! and NONE of them tell their wives where they are going,,,
Ive seen MANY men of the clergy on my tables as well, they want the most freakiest things done to them as well..
Bottom line, MOST people are neither str8 or gay, but BI-sexual!
Kinsey broke it down 50 years ago
10% str8
80% Bisexual
10%gay
@Granny,
OK granny, you don’t want to use religion, then why doesn’t science in the pairing of the s*e*xes support the union of same-s*e*x people?
How many time are people going to overlook what mysistagirl explained about this DOJ brief and the moral comparison of homosexuality to other perversion for other groups in society?
It’s all about morality, and granny- as old as you are, you should have better morals than all of us- If you are a granny.
The constitution and no one else should grant or make an immoral sexual act a civil right- unless they are willing to make all immoral things and acts laws or civil rights.
So, granny, let people make there point, if it doesn’t agree with your standard of morality. Obvious, age doesn’t make everyone wiser or prevents them from jumping on the wrong side of a moral arguement and debate.
its unatural and a step back for man kind
Wow, don’t give me the too much on Obama’s plate argument as to why we should wait one more day for our god/dess given civil rights. Harry Truman was able to desegregate the entire military while fighting a war in Korea that was the mother of all battles since WWII. He also had pressing domestic issues and was following the most beloved President of that century so far. If you don’t believe me find a veteran that survived the Pusan Perimeter.
On to the Bigots here who may have just picked up your white sheets from the cleaners. This may surprise you but America’s founders in their infinite wisdom refrained for establishing a state religion. They went so far as to prohibit congress for doing so in the future. The law is called the first amendment. It officially makes these United States of America a secular society. This is why we can have a Mosque, a Baptist church, a synagogue, a catholic church and a wiccan coven all celebrating creation on the same street without anyone getting killed. It also allows the atheist to live at home in peace. It drives Al Qaeda crazy…and it makes us better than the terrorists.
So in our secular society we don’t have the right to deny LGBT people their civil rights. Unless you are ready to give up your Bible, Torah, or Quran for a state approved one or none at all. You can quote scripture up one mountain and down another mountain it has no weight in law. To say otherwise is a disservice to what Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, George Washington and all the founding fathers shed the lives fortunes and sacred honors in the procuring a nation where these principles still endure after 222 years.
Unless you are ready to give up your own special heterosexual rights then you should not deny Homosexuals the same rights. It is because you deny these rights to homosexuals that they are special right to begin with. By granting the LGBT community these rights they are no longer special.
These rights simply become…”rights endowed by their creator among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness…” is that what you are afraid of that you will lose your “special” rights that make you better than anyone else? If that is a case then you are no Christian nor are you a patriotic American…you are a tyrant the same as the ayatollahs that rule Iran.
Look Benjamin Franklin said it best when he said “I disagree with what you believe but I will defend your right to believe it to my death.”
Today around the world over 100,000 LGBT men and women are defending your rights while they serve in silence. Go to bed and think about that.
These are obama supporters on this thread, so full of this hate? Obama sure did telegraph his real feelings to y’all.
If not, where the hell are all the obama supporters that will stick up for the LGBT??
The only ones confronting this hate are people who see through Obama and his lies!
WTF??
@ all the alleged Obama supporters here who are sprouting such homophobia, NEWSFLASH:
You are not a beautiful unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.
Mysista, I for one am sorry that you can not understand the nature of our civil rights struggle. It is a sacred to us as yours is to the African American community. If it offends you that we compare our struggle to yours, well forgive me if I don’t understand that. The African American civil rights struggle of the last century served (and continues to serve) as a model for our community and we strive to live up to the ideals of the heroes of that movement. We will not, however, diminish the importance of our struggle for anyone, and I don’t think the heroes I referred to earlier would have expected us to either. If you can’t accept that, well, we’ll just have to wait until you come around. I hope that doesn’t take another 40 years.
mysista needs to realize that everyone is afforded civil rights, not just african americans.
they aren’t just her communities rights, they belong to all of us.
How someone who understands so well the struggle can be so ignorant to others struggles is fascinating to watch, sort of like a train wreck.
MikeFuzz, If you think we are a secular Nation then perhaps you need to visit Schoenbrunn village in Ohio.
Now, HOW in the world can cornholing have civil rights attached to it? The blacks know TRUE Civil rights and what they mean…but cornholing??
The blacks have lost many of their young men through alternate lifestyle choices!
What kind of juvenile discussion board is this that won’t let the word ’s- e -x’ be spelled out? No wonder we can’t grant something as benign as same-*** marriage or end DADT when our society has such an unhealthy view of humanity and sexuality that we can’t even use the word.
to quote a great civil rights advocate from the state of Mississippi Fannie Lou Hamer:
I am Sick and Tired of Being Sick and Tired!
gary — the civil rights struggle of the 60s was sexist & homophobic. No wonder mysista thinks like he does.
Equal right for all to marry? I say to all the **** who want to have legalized marriage……Then I should be allowed to marry my sister after all she is hot. There is no requirement to have ***, consimate the marriage or have children. (if fact gay couples can’t do any of those things). I would like to marry my daughter as well so that she can have all my money when I die tax free. If fact I should be able to marry my son as well (would not want him to be left out). SO for those of you that have any objections to me having multiple partners/spouse or in family marriage…. ask your self why not? If we change the definition of marriage to accomidate a certain group then we should accomidate everyone who wishes to do as they please. After all equal is not separate
James Kirk — You are not a beautiful unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else
Now go f*ck yourself.
i am sure mysista and some others here can set you straight james kirk.
waiting mysista………….
James, please don’t give the Obama DOJ any more ideas to put in the brief.
come on all you democratic liberals, set james straight!
I’m waiting mysista, especially for your rebuttal!
And to think that the LGBT communities’ tax dollars goes to support these families prorogation of hate.
I still don’t understand why cornholing should require a marriage license.
Oops. Wrong word choice. Guess I had legislation on my mind.
MikeFuzz, the last quote was not from Ben Franklin but Voltaire. Here’s a real quote form Ben Franklin “The moral and religious system which Jesus Christ transmitted to us is the best the world has ever seen, or can see.” Our civil rights are spelled out in the US Constituion. Same s e x marriage is not there. If you think it should petition the government to do so. Rights that actually in the constitution are the right to vote, speak and practice you faith. You devalue the role of religion but the whole point of your push is for moral affirmation. Nobody says who you can or can not love (you can love someone without having *** with them). You can leave anyone in your will you so chose, you give anyone power of attorney over your affairs. The point of your movement is for the government to affirm your lifestyle and say that christians are the bad guys. Should we call anyone who doesn’t believe in christianity religi – phobes, or anti religious bigots? Make friends with a christian and you may find your christian phobia disappear. You’ve said your peace. I don’t agree. We can hate one another or love one another. God makes it easy. Love everyone and let him sort out the rest.
Shane you are ignorant. Now how can I prove thisto you in small words that you would understand? Let us see, how can the right for you to stick your wee-wee in some girls random who-who be a civil right given to you and codified in law?
Guess what it is in every state that allows you to marry a woman. I only have Mass, VT, CONN, and NH and IA where I am equal to you. I am from Iowa and don’t like the cold so I moved.
Shane you live in a secular nation even in your sad burrow in Ohio. Unless everyone in that town goes to the same church, reads the same holy book, and doing so is mandated by law….you are not living in a theocracy.
I think you would be at home in Iran Shane maybe you should move to Iran. Where what hangs between your legs is all you need to prove you are a man and brains are not required!
All ****,****** must either repent of their awful disgusting sin or they will burn forever in hellfire,this is serious,definitely nothing to laugh about! Jesus will forgive them if only they repent!!!!
Itdoesn’tmakeSense wrote: “Last I counted or was informed, there were 30 plus states of people who decidely said by vote and referendum that we do not accept or want homosexuality in our society. Only six(6) states legislation-not the people forced the g*a*y upon it’s citizens. The other 44 states have consitutional language that says its not acceptable. — So, how is it that you can quantify that their are not a lot of Americans out there that still have Christian values and morals? eh?”
You seem to believe your own propaganda, Itdoesn’tmakeSense. However, not a single item in your post is true, yet you state it as if it is “fact.”
Not a single state constitutional amendment or referendum at the ballot box in ANY state asked voters to accept or reject “homosexuality in our society.” Not a single state’s legislature has “forced the g*a*y upon its [sic] citizens.” No state in the United States has constitutional language that says that being g*a*y is unacceptable.
You have fabricated the statements in your post to conform to your desire to criminalize being g*a*y, yet the fact is that in NO state anywhere in the United States is it illegal to be g*a*y. Period. No voters nor any legislators in any state have rejected “homosexuality in our society” no matter how much you’d like that to be true.
At issue during the last 10-15 years or so have been votes and legislation relating to the RIGHTS of same-gender couples to be RECOGNIZED AS A COUPLE under the law. The SCOTUS decision in Lawrence v Texas in 2003 overturned the 16 remaining state statutes that criminalized the same private s*e*xual acts between consenting same-gender adults that had at the same time been perfectly legal between consenting opposite-gender adults in those 16 states (i.e. o*r*a*l & a*n*a*l s*e*x).
Sorry to burst your bigot bubble, but neither you nor your fellow bigots have voted to reject “homosexuality in our society” – apparently, you don’t know that and you should.
It’s so good to know that hateful posters like mysista, cal, james kirk and son of the king, are welcome under the big tent. Thank you Obama!!!!!!! Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!
UPDATE: The DOJ has requested this blog thread be brought by the LGBT leaders to the meeting next week.
add to that list, shrimpdick.
SRT, thanks for your amusing attempt to try to belittle a phallus that I do not & have never had. Got anything else in your powerful arsenal?
MikeFuzz, we are NOT in a Secular Nation. You really NEED to visit Schoenbrunn Village in Ohio and find out the FACTS!
But you still have not answered my question…Why does cornholing require a marriage license? You can still cornhole, it happens all the time at G*A*Y parades. You are not being logical.
Shane – you are still drinking from the primordal soup. But since you ask, plenty (and I mean plenty) of straight people engage in anal & oral s.ex. What a person does in the privacy of their homes is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
#
Shane, You are not a beautiful unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else
Now go f*ck yourself.
oh, my sincere apologies. I misread your name. Dip is much more fitting, i think, in every sense of the word.
cal guy:Thanks for correcting me about Voltaire and Franklin they were contemporaries of Locke whose principles set forth our revolution and constitution.
Marriage is not enumerated at all in the constitution at all you idiot. Unless you place it in the tenth amendment of the constitution “right reserved to the states and people” but I checked and it doesn’t say anywhere that marriage is between a man and a women in the great document.
Oh and there are many Christian Denominations that accept Same S*e*x marriage as compatible with the teachings of Christ….I will list 3 The Society of Friends (Quakers like Mr. Franklin) UCC United Church of Christ (Obama’s Religion) and the Unitarians (I believe several signatures of both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution belonged to this faith) the first amendment guarantees these religions the right to practice their faith unfettered by the laws of the states and people.
I am not anti religious Cal Guy I am saying I am against any religion imposing its beliefs on another religion with the force of law, which is what you seem to relish as your G-D given right.
Yes if you are a person of means you can go to a lawyer and accomplish a few of the same things with a mountain of paper work that one marriage certificate gives you why should I have to?
As I pay the same if not more in taxes than you?
So the 30 states that have voted to define marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman are full of bigots. That great right-wing state of California is full of bigots. All but a handful of countries in the world are bigots. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and other top democrats who stated opposition to same gender marriage are bigots. Wow . So much for diversity and pluralism. It must be great to have all the answers and be so right. Lets abolish the government, the courts, the constitution and put all the same gender advocates in charge. This system works great in Iran I hear.
SRT, why are you lumping me in with the bigoted theocrats? I merely pointed out to Itdoesn’tmakeSense that what he believes is not true. I’m a big ol’ ****…why do you believe that I’m a dick or a dip?
Cal, there was a time where many states and a majority or people in this country believed interracial marriage was a sin.
You stupid bunny!
I can’t really fault the anger and impatience expressed by the LGBT community here and elsewhere, but mark my words: by the time this is all over, this President will end up having done more to advance the cause of gay rights than all his predecessors combined. Keep pressing, keep advocating, but don’t despair!
SRT –> d*y*k*e <– that’s what I am.
I don’t after re-reading your post. truly, my apologies.
AMH, Cornholing IS my business if it is creating an epidemic that is affecting Public Health according to the CDC [Center for Disease Control].
How many more names do you want on the Quilt? Hmmmmm??
I should have added itdoesntmakesense!
Cal — and to add to what SRT just said: those people who believe interracial marriage was a sin used the EXACT same arguments that you & others here are making against same-*** marriage (against God, redefining marriage, blah, blah, blah). Y’all bigots really should get some fresh material.
Cal –You are not a beautiful unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else
Now go f*ck yourself.
Shane, worry about your own cornhole. If you are so pure, you won’t have to worry about catching anything.
According to the bible your wife must be a virgin before marrying or society can stone her and I’m sure you don’t beleive in pre marital ***. So you’re safe.
****** loon!
Shane — You are not a beautiful unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else
Now go f*ck yourself.
Shane I stand by my words and those of the terms of surrender that ended the Barbary wars in the early 19th century. I believe the presidents at the time of these hostilities were John Adams and Thomas Jefferson and James Madison was Secretary of State at the surrender of the Barbary States to the United States. This is the War where the Marines went to “the shores of Tripoli”!
Surrender and cessation of hostilities documents are generally treated as treaties and as such must be ratified by the Senate. They carry the force of law in the constitution. In those documents it clearly states that the United States as a nation is not a “Christian Nation” the treaties words not mine. If its good enough for James Madison and Jefferson then its good enough for me!
Shane you corn***ing’ question does not dignify an answer. When are you going to answer my question Shane?
@jjt — puh-leaze with the “Obama is smarter than us” meme. No, he isn’t. He is smarter than YOU. I see through his b.s. & lies. I see who he associates with (homophobes like Rick Warren, Meeks & McClurkin). I see that he says one things (repeal DOMA; end DADT) and does another (defends DOMA; expels military translators because they are gay).
jjt — You are not a beautiful unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else
Now go f*ck yourself.
And I hope to God Shane doesn’t handle pigskin on Sundays during football season. That’s a sure death.
Things are looking up, this is good news. Some say Obama is a closet bi-sexual. Understandable why he would stay in the closet, but also makes sense that if it’s true, he’s on our side and will do as much as he can. Baby steps, and heading in the right direction.
You know what the last time I read the scientific reports on homosexuality it was still not contagious. So why not let them get married. That way they are as miserable as the rest of us are.
@AMH: Jesus, what did I do to deserve an attack like that? I don’t recall ever having referred to myself (or even thought of myself) as a “beautiful unique snowflake.” Just because you’re quick with a putdown and have a black belt in cynicism doesn’t make you smarter than anyone else. In fact, it makes you kind of pathetic.
SRT, THAT is what I am trying to tell you. G*A*Y Cornholing is creating an epidemic that is affecting Public Health, and taking lives and bringing judgement on the Masses. We have had more floods and fires in Ca. than ever.
On top of that, what about the young lady in CA. who had her Bible cracked on her head and was kicked in the Streets across the road by the G*A*Y*S??
The cornholing habits of the G*A*Y*S are causing problens Nationwide!
OMG, Obma is a closet bi sexual. I am LMAO. the lengths obots will go to justify this bull shite never ceases to amaze me!
I think that might be the best Obama excuse I have heard yet!
thanks for the laugh Warren!
Shane, are you The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas?? Or are you a member of his “church”.
Nice to see the democratic party reaching out to all members of society!
Warren — that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. If he is “bi” then he is one of those self-loathing **** like McClurkin & Meeks who “prayed the gay away” & attack those who can live free. There ain’t no help from those kind of people.
Cal Guy: In the past the courts have gotten it wrong before Google Dred Scott.
T
he States have gotten it wrong before Google slavery or slave states Google segregation.
Countries have gotten it wrong Google Holocaust or Apartheid….
I don’t have the all answers for you Cal Guy…but your right to force your beliefs on me ends at the same place my beliefs are being forced on you; so if you are allowed to marry the woman of your choice (given there is one that wants your open mind) I should have the right to marry the man or woman of my choice.
We can both believe the other is wrong but neither of us is allowed to force that belief through law on each other.
jjt — attack you? You think Obama has some “secret plan” to get gay rights by acting like a homophobe. *cough* I’m allergic to that kind of stupidity.
Shane — go back to your cave, you homophobic Neanderthal.
jjt, I don’t condone the horrid vile words of the Wicked Witch or Warlock of the East, AMH, but I think it was “don’t despair!” that might have pushed her or him over the edge. Did you read the thread and the vile and hate? As an Obama supporter it would really help if you would confront the hate that is right in front of our face rather than offer up “hope” for the future that this all might magically go away.
MikeFuzz, then how come God is mentioned in ALL of our State Constitutions? Hmmmmm?
Look, ever since g*a*y* marriage was legalized in Mass, Diseases have gone rampant? One word…”cornholing” festival.
Earlier today, an 18 y/o tgs young woman died after being raped and brutally beaten yesterday. She was then buried alive after breaking her knees with a sledge hammer. Young people being targeted every day in schools, in their hometowns and yet we have no leadership in the White House, DNC or others as to this outrage. Why aren’t people doing more than just boycotting with their checkbooks, what is wrong with taking to the streets such as those in Iran are doing with their disgust at the current leadership.
I am a mother whose young son was targeted many years ago in a vicious assault for being gay, every hate crime brings or suicide for being harassed are casualties of war.
Yes, these politicians care only for votes and money but what about the rest of us, where is the outrage at being not only denied basic human rights but the daily violence?
We have had that dreaded phone call, is that what it will take for others to take to the streets en mass to put an end to this bias, once and for all.
Hearing of this latest death due to bias leaves me empty, anger at Obama for ignoring the human toll of this hate and the lack of outrage at it all.
Cal Guy so you dont get the wrong Idea I would say marry either the man or woman of my choice. I am currently on the fence about Pollyamorus relationships!
UHM Hello people. If you dont like the rules here in AMERICA then feel free to leave at any point. That is a right you have not something you need to fight for. Take the easy path like you usually do. PLEASE!!!!
jjt — thinks I’m “pathetic” boo f*cking hoo — I’m going to cry myself to sleep tonight.
and nope, I’m not smarter than everyone else — I’m just smarter than YOU because, as I said, I can see through Obama b.s. & lies & I don’t looks at someone who condones that DOMA brief & allows military translators to be discharged solely because they are gay and say: “wow, what a great master plan for repealing DOMA & DADT!!!”
Shane, I think you have an unhealthy obsession with cornholing. It’s bordering on OCD. You might want to get some professional help with that. You know how people are always washing their hands for fear of germs. At this point, your cornhole must be getting pretty red and raw.
Shane not true about about the spreadof diseases and gay marriage propaganda that only your pea head brain would belive!
SRT. Stupid? bigot? hater? Is a civil intellectual discussion too much to ask? I am black and see no similarity between having dark skin to protect me from the sun and having relations with a man. Are same gender relations the same as relations between adults and children. Could the man-boy love association say ” they used to say same gender relations were a sin”. Are they the same. of course not. There are very secular countries such as France that do not have same gender marriage. Marriage has existed to ensure that couples stay together long enough to raise children to adulthood. No it is not a civil right. It is a societal construct. Blacks and whites couples can marry and produce children. Good, bad or indifferent thats the origin of marriage. The discovery channel calls it evolution christians see it as the creation of Adam and Eve in the garden. And yes not all couples have children, and not all incestuous relationships can produce children but are still barred from marriage. Before you say it, I am not saying incest and same gender marriage are the same thing. But you can’t feign so much disgust at others engaged in incest or polygamy and condemn those who do not agree with your lifestyle. Since we do not have a religious government, why not let anything go? why condemn anyone? Before you go on another anti religious rant, you need to answer those questions. I am christian because I was raised christian, muslims in Saudi Arabia likewise. Lets hear some rant against muslims in countries like Iran where homos e x u a l s are hanged. Thats hate. Loving someone and being able to share breakfast, talk and laugh while disagreeing is not.
Carolyn my heart goes out to you I can tellyou ae al oving parent God bless you. You are a true advocate for us I am assuming you are a straight ally of our community.
Cal — typical homophobe — pretending that his being black gives him “more” of a right to civil rights than everyone else in this country & pretending that ho.mo.s.exuality = pedophilia. No wonder you support Obama, he agrees!
@Itdoesn’tmakeSense
I repeat, if it’s “unnatural”, other animal species wouldn’t engage in such activity. As humans, we are the most advanced, intelligent species on the planet, but we’re still technically animals. Science has proved that. Since homosexual activity comes “naturally” to some members of other species, so it inevitably comes naturally to a few members of our species.
Not everyone has your own, subjective opinion of what constitutes “natural” and “unnatural”. I say if something causes you to become aroused, then it is a natural, biological response.
Are you an Obama supporter Cal?
@AMH: Why does public discourse these days always have to come to this? I didn’t say it was a “secret plan.” I said that, in the end, he will end up having made more progress on gay rights than anyone else has. Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that you *don’t* know everything, and that turns out to be an accurate prediction. Will you reject the advances simply so that you can continue to pretend that you have some magical insight that the rest of us don’t?
@garychapelhill
You said: “Mysista, I for one am sorry that you can not understand the nature of our civil rights struggle.”
I say: I for one am sorry that the LGBT community cannot understand the insult and the disservice they do to the civil rights struggle when they equate it to their sexual preferences.
You said: “The African American civil rights struggle of the last century served (and continues to serve) as a model for our community and we strive to live up to the ideals of the heroes of that movement.”
I say: Nice try, but the fact of the matter is that civil rights were NEVER granted or fought for with the idea of sexuality in mind. It was about WAY more immutable and difficult things than that.
You said: “We will not, however, diminish the importance of our struggle for anyone,”
I say: Well, you certainly do over exalt your struggle when you equate it with civil rights. And you certainly don’t mind diminishing civil rights when you dumb it down to being equal with your sexual preferences.
You said: “and I don’t think the heroes I referred to earlier would have expected us to either.”
I say: Believe me, those heros did not fight and die for anything close to sexual preferences. They didn’t have that in mind when they went to the mat. There were homosexuals back then, and their desire to marry one another was not on the radar. MLK was a bible believing baptist, and while he fought for equal opportunity for all people, I assure you he didn’t take that bullet for same *** marriages(which is not equal rights, but rather EXTRA rights) because it goes against the very moral code of the bible that he ascribed to.
You said: “If you can’t accept that, well, we’ll just have to wait until you come around. I hope that doesn’t take another 40 years.”
I say: No, we’ll just have to agree to disagree for now. I say “for now” because I do believe there will be a reckoning, and YOU will be the one coming around, allbeit too late.
SRT.you are not telling me. I KNOW what goes on in those gay bathhouses and Bars. Those are cornhole sites that spread diseases. Yes, they are raw because that is all that happens there.
These Alternate lifestyle choices are herrendous and bring eventual death to all mankind.
The only thing that can change it is reverse therapy.
Now having said that, The word “bigot” is a g*a*y “play” word to shame the masses. I know their tactics well. Their cornhole tactics won’t work on me.
jjt, i guess what people are looking for it to take a look at the evidence staring them in the face and stop making excuses for Obama, so if he just happens to, maybe, hopefully do the right thing you won’t look like a fool.
Well, time to shite or get off the pot. he needs to be held accountable.
mysista,
Then how do you feel about the rapper community using the “N” word????
@ jjt — If in fact, for arguments sake, that Obama goes against every actual act that he has ever done in his entire life & actually does, for once, do what he says he will & not the exact opposite of what he says he will, then I for one will be very, very happy to be wrong.
But, unfortunately, I’m not wrong.
@La: I have read this thread, and I am all too familiar with the type of flatulent noise that some are spewing here, but I don’t like to feed the trolls, and I think that nothing is gained by engaging people of that ilk. I expect more from this community, however. After all, we’re on the side of right. Aren’t we?
@shrimpdip,
aaaaah-ha, yes, it seem I mis-spoke. Man enuff to admit that. Meant SSM(Same-S*e*x- Marriage). Nonetheless, your rebuttal, does show that this issue is constantly being forced upon the citizens in the States without moral arguement-that is homosexuality- by the courts and not by the people.
One would have to wonder what the tally would be if this was put on a ballot in the United States. I would bet a 5yr salary that the people in nearly all 50 States would outlaw or vote against homosexuality.
And California, Arkansas, and Florida proved that Christian americans for the most part do not approve of SSM.
Also, you rebuttal, shows that the courts are bias toward the sexual perversion of homosexuality on the basis of morally than they are with the other sexual perversion that have been considered immoral and laws made against.
If the courts can say prostitution, incest and under age marriage and s*ex is illegal and immoral; then they must rule against homosexuality the same way. How and why the courts are not applying Moral law to civil unions or same-s*ex relationships is unbelievable.
They do not make this immoral exception for any other sexual perversion, so mainly the courts and the legislatators been on the take and have become less moral law governing body-except for the California SC- which just recently broke away from the non-appliance of morals in major social decisions.
Even, with your point made about homosexuality not being totally unaccepted, more than three-fourth of the States in the United States don’t allow or recognize civil unions.
The most important fact is that if Americans could vote on homosexuality on a State by State basis- homosexuals would be outcasts- as I believe at least 45 States would make it illegal by voting.
If you believe different, lobby for a Nation-wide referendum for each state to vote on in 2010 for the Congressional vote or local State Governor ballot vote. We will see who win and how much g*a*ys are liked by society!!!!!!!!!
mysista, some black men had a sexual preference for white women and that was illegal once upon a time. I think civil rights had something to do with that, no?
Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)[1], was a landmark civil rights case in which the United States Supreme Court by a 9-0 vote declared Virginia’s anti-miscegenation statute, the “Racial Integrity Act of 1924″, unconstitutional, thereby overturning Pace v. Alabama (1883) and ending all race-based legal restrictions on marriage in the United States.
Shane — you have proven to me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that cornholing IS your business & that you are intimately familiar with bath houses.
How much do you charge, btw?
Oh my, Carolyn, I am so sorry to hear that about your son. Sorry to hear that you experienced that with a child. I am looking for a link to the death of the young girl and will share it around the blogs when I find it. Unfortunately, everyone needs to be reminded that the violence and hate speech is real. I say unfortunately because we should have all evolved beyond this by now.
jjt — actually, I don’t think we are all on the same side here. You are advocating for the GLBT community to “wait their turn” & I am saying: f*ck that — CIVIL RIGHTS NOW.
@AMH: I’m glad to know that your many talents include the ability to see the future. Seriously, let’s see where we are in a couple of years. Then we can all decide who was actually right and who was wrong.
What you *g*a*y*s are NOT seeing is that the blacks have lost HOSTS of their young Black men to MSM (Men having *** with men) according to the CDC.
And a cornhole license is NOT seen as a good thing.
Agree/jjt. Obama and his team are always getting things done behind the scenes. Going to continue to trust that Obama will advance more for LGBT community. He’s just not being overt about it – he’s in stealth mode, and it’s not the time to overreact just because we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. And his wife is a huge LGBT advocate and probably doing her part. He may not even take credit for much of it, but he’ll have made it happen behind the scenes.
SRT. No I am not an Obama supporter, or homophobe. I never stated blacks have more civil rights than anyone else. I stated specifically that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same. Marriage for anyone is not in the constitution. I’ve had friends of my daughter over. they watched movies slept over and I made them breakfast in the morning. No fear. No hate. I simply disagree. We can do that in this country.
@AMH: I absolutely did *not* say that we should “wait our turn.” I started my very first post on this thread by saying that I can’t fault the anger and impatience. I also said to keep pressuring and advocating. All I said was that I think that pressure and advocacy will pay off.
@SRT:
You said: “If not, where the hell are all the obama supporters that will stick up for the LGBT??”
I say: The LGBT community is RAPIDLY pushing them the other way with your selfish antics.
You said: “mysista needs to realize that everyone is afforded civil rights, not just african americans…they aren’t just her communities rights, they belong to all of us.”
I say: Whether or not you know it, you just made another of my points. The victories gained via the civil rights movement were applied to ALL persons, regardless of their race, creed, gender, or age. In other words, you ALREADY have the EXACT same civil rights that everyone else has. There is not a single law on the books that applies to me and not you. So the real deal is that what you seek now is not civil rights. It’s additional rights based solely on your sexual preferences. You want society to adopt something that is totally different, and it requires a redefinition of marriage. When blacks and interacial couples had to fight to be married, it was a fight for the EXACT SAME rights that were on the books for the rest of society. When that battle was finally won, they were awarded the EXACT SAME RIGHT–that is, the right for ANY ONE MAN to marry ANY ONE WOMAN, regardless of race. They were not granted the right for ANY person to marry ANY person, nor is that what they considered equality. Equality is when you get the EXACT same benefit or treatment as all others. YOU happen to want something OTHER than the right that everyone else has, and that’s EXTRA, not EQUAL. You are simly perpetrating a fraud when you try and cloak your sexual preferences as a fight for civil rights or equality. Again, you already have the same right of marriage that I have. I can almost see where DADT could have legs as a civil rights issue, because it’s much like not hiring qualified blacks or handicapped because someone doesn’t like them. It didn’t require a redefinition of employment or a granting of extra privaledges to them to bring that about. They just got the SAME laws already on the books applied to them. But gay marriage is simply a bridge too far to be considered a fight for equality. It’s a disingenuous representation.
The LGBT community needs to make up it’s mind anyway. At one point your struggle was to establish that what happens between “consenting adults” in private is none of the government’s business, and should not affect your right to jobs, education, etc. Having won that battle, they are now taking the opposite view, that it is government’s business — and that government has an obligation to give its approval and make extra laws which are crafted based on what goes on in their bedrooms.
What a tangled web!!
He’s not being covert about it???? Hell he’s fighting against it.
Jessum Chrissum, people really are hopeful idiots!
Obama is playing 11 dimensional chess on uranus!
Jesus christ, who needs such a weak kneed political panderer as an advocate. People need to wake the hell up. Look what you are settling for.
I knew it Cal Guy’s a real hater he brought out the G*a*y pedophilia myth. D*ckweed 95% of boys who are molested by men are molested by straight men and most of those are molested by relatives and people they know.
Child Molestation and Pedophilia have nothing to do with sexual Orientation. It is more often associated in the case of molestation with power and dominance over the molested child. In the case of pedophilia that is mental illness currently untreated. Again most of these crimes are perpetrated by straight men. Did you get that Shane? Maybe we should prevent straight men from contact with their children…sense they seem to be the most likely people to rape and molest them.
I know the science does go with your “quest for an intellectual discussion” to bad those are the facts.
France does not offer civil marriage to either men or women or same *** couples everyone gets a state civil union. Marriage is a church contract that is not recognized by the secular French Republic.
Marriage has always been about property rights even the begetting of children (which are the property of the head of household) is an issue of property and support not marriage.
Even the church (at the time there was only one) did not codify marriage as a sacrament until the 11th century. A full 1,000 years after the Christ trod his feet across the waters of Galilee and turned water into wine at Canaan.
I have railed against the Islamic world’s treatment of women and homosexuals and you are no different than and yes dropping a wall on gay people is hate you win but I should not point out your hate because it is of a lesser degree. You’re the type of Christian Cal Guy that spends all day looking at the splinter in your brother’s eye while ignoring the plank (or beam) in your own.
the only tangled web is the one that resides in your head mysista. re-read what you wrote, carefully.
jmo — oh no, another one selling the lie about “stealth mode” Obama! No, jmo, Obama is not smarter than the rest of us. He is just smarter than YOU because he can obviously p!ss on your leg & tell you it is raining & you believe him.
Wake the F*ck UP!! He says he wants DOMA repealed, but defends it in court, when he could have just DECLINED TO DEFEND IT. What part of that are you too thick to understand?!?!? He says he will end DADT but allows military translators to be discharged just because they are gay. Are you really too stupid to believe your lying eyes? And Michelle a “huge” LGBT advocate? Based on what? Michelle has never done **** for the LGBT community. You all are just pulling things out of your a.ss now.
jmo — Neither you nor Obama is a beautiful unique snowflake. You are both the same decaying organic matter as everything else
Now you can both go f*ck yourself.
jjt — tomato, tomahtah — you can call it what you want, but it boils down to “wait your turn.”
@AMH: What’s your alternative? Give up? I’m not asking that question flippantly, I really want to know.
Look, I think it is about time that you g*a*y*s get over it and change your Alternate Lifestyle choices to something better. It CAN happen if you choose. How many times am I supposed to tell you?
Start making BETTER choices.
I should clarify: I meant what’s your alternative to keeping up the pressure and the advocacy? Because if you really don’t believe it will do any good and that Obama will betray us in the end, why bother?
jjt — closing our checkbooks until we SEE some real action instead of pretty words & broken promises. Really, are you arguing that Obama did not explicitly say he would get DOMA repealed & that he would end DADT? Do you not know that as President he could have declined to defend DOMA in the Smelt case & he could have prevented the discharge of the military translators who are gay? Because he can.
If you want to *pretend* that there are more important things on this plate fine. But even if that is true, he did not have to go out of his way to stick a knife in the LGBT community’s back (which make no mistake, is exactly what he did with that DOMA brief).
@ko,
Not going to argue the animal g*a*y theory. All I am going to say is animal can’t discern moral-right or wrong- when it comes to s*e*x. At least no one proven it yet.
And so, it stands, they know not what they do.
Jtt, does it sound like anyone is giving up? Get on the train of the movement that is happening right NOW. The train of NOW has already left the station. Don’t you know about the march? The “pressure” as you call it. Are you going to be there or are you going to wait for a hoped-for victory parade?
mysista, before you lecture me, learn your history. One of MLK jr’s closest advisors, and the man who planned the March on Washington, Bayard Rustin, was a gay man. You shame Dr. King’s name with your bigotry. Of course gay people would have never even thought to demand marriage at that time. They were still being thrown in jail or confined to mental institutions on a regular basis just because of who they were. It would have been like the man who invented the wheel demanding a car. Unthinkable. That’s how badly WE were being oppressed. When you decide to let go of your hate and realize that we ALL deserve justice and we ALL deserve equality, then we can talk. Until then I will continue to speak out so that others may avoid the trap of homophobia set by your hateful rhetoric which only serves to tighten the shackles of my own oppression. We shall overcome whether you like it or not.
jjt — and let me clarify — I truly believe that Obama is a homophobe — his actions (as I outlined above in my first post on this thread) & his friendship with known homophobes (Meeks, McClurkin, Kmeic, Rick Warren) are more telling to me than his words. BUT it is not just Obama who has betrayed the GLBT community — it is the Dem. Party as a whole. They have their hands out for gay money ever election & they have been making promises for a long time. And the truth is, they haven’t ever delivered a d@mn thing that was basically “crumbs” from their table.
And BTW, all of these States that passed gay marriage? LOOK OUT!
Because it will be defeated.
Cornholing will be short lived in the legal sense and driven back to the bars, bathhouses and brothels.
@truth:
You said: “Then how do you feel about the rapper community using the “N” word????”
I say: I have major issues with that. It is also a disservice to those upon whose shoulders we stand.
And let me add to you “stealth mode” little chickens — no group in the history of the world has ever gotten civil rights by asking politely. Not the AA community in the 60s. Not women getting the vote in 1920. Not the Indians from the British. These groups have had to fight for every right they won.
The patriarchy DOES NOT give up its power without a fight.
Learn this. Wash. Rinse.Repeat. Sleep on it if you have to.
@SRT:
You said: “mysista, some black men had a sexual preference for white women and that was illegal once upon a time. I think civil rights had something to do with that, no? Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)[1], was a landmark civil rights case…”
I say: See my previous post to you. I already addressed this, because I knew it was coming.
AMH…Wash rinse repeat? Figures…
Sounds like a cornhole.
and mysista, even Dr. King’s widow, before she passed away, said that he would have believed that gay rights were civil rights. I’ll take her word over yours any day. Mrs. King–”Like Martin, I don’t believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others”, she would tell black civil rights leaders angered by **** and lesbians comparing their struggle to their own. She would quote her husband and say, “I have worked too long and hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concern. Justice is indivisible.”
You’re welcome to your “Christian morals and values” – Don’t force me to live by them by legislating discrimination. What your church or your pastor or your religious text says has nothing to do with the law. What the law should be concerned with is this: Are we treating our citizens equally? If the answer is no, a change needs to occur.
There was a time when “marriage” was between one man and one woman of the same race, and that was considered the only ‘moral’ way to do things. There have also been times when the people of this country would have voted overwhelmingly to deny rights to blacks, Jews, women, and even certain types of Christians, including Catholics and Mormons. The opinion of the majority is not always the moral option.
I am a heterosexual, college-educated woman, married with a child. This is not my issue. But, as far as I can see, it has absolutely nothing to do with me if two men or two woman are allowed the same protections under the law for their relationship that I am entitled to and take for granted.
@AMH: I have no problem with you closing your checkbook until you see results. But closing your checkbook does not have to mean closing yourself off to the very possibility of ever seeing those results. I hate to keep repeating myself, but I feel I have to because I think you continue to read things into my statements that I did not intend. I never said that the administration’s actions weren’t disappointing: they are. I said that we should keep up the pressure and keep up the advocacy. But if you, as you’ve made apparent, don’t believe that such pressure and advocacy will ever do any good because Obama is really a homophobe masquerading as a supporter, why would you continue to do it? The only alternative I can see in that case is to give up, because there certainly isn’t anyone else out there who’s in a position to do anything to help.
@Shane — your obsession with cornholing is actually quite endearing. You are TOTALLY winning me over to your way of thinking. I’m gonna get myself over to a revival meeting, stat!
jjt said “why would you continue to do it?” What else do you want us to do, just lie back and think of England?
jjt — puh-leaze. Obama can be forced to doing whatever the money tells him to do. Despite your continued faith in him, the only thing he has proven is that he will dance to the tune of the money men.
Mikefuzz – Huh? pedophilia argument. Molesting a child and engaging in a consensual relationship are vastly different things. Rather than keep making tired old talking points (homophobe, hatemonger, bigot etc.) Make your point. If you believe hetero couples are getting more benefits, maybe the question is should anyone get benefits? Maybe the government should stay out of the marriage/relationship business. What interest besides childrearing does the government have in who sleeps with whom? Why should someone not get benefits for a close friend who they are roomates with but not bed partners? Those might be valid arguments. Christian bashing only invites backlash. I drink occasionally. Some disagree with that. So what? That’s their religious or cultural beliefs. I also eat pork. I don’t think jews, muslims or hindus are hate mongers or bigots for disagreeing. Christians believe that they are no longer under the law but under grace. As a christian I believe it is God’s role to judge and his alone. If you want a blessing for your relationship ask God not me. If you feel God’s ok with it that’s all you need. If you start listening and stop hating and insulting we all might find some understanding and learn to live together in peace and harmony.
jjt — PS — am I not being clear enough? Let me recap:
The GLBT community has to stop taking **** from Obama & the Dems, put their “money where their mouths are”and TAKE their civil rights.
Sista: What if tomorrow America was defeated by a larger and more powerful country that believed that all people with skin color darker than a paper grocery bag should be killed. You were told that the right to be free and live was a special right under the laws of the conquering nation.
You do not possess that special right because of your skin color. You did have the right to choose the method of your elimination because the new power is not like the Nazi’s who denied this to their sub human classes they believe in R@cism 3.0! Your choices were to be strangled gassed with cyanide or put down a meat grinder in front of a large cheering audience with others just like you.
When you argued that your skin color was innate and you had no control over it because it was genetic and G-d made you this way the Occupying Country said that was not their problem that was between you and your G-D. Oh and be sure to take it up with him as you will be meeting him soon.
In case you were thinking this is preposterous then I would let you know every bit of this scenario was pulled from history; human history from Rome till today.
Sista, when you put down and spread hate about LGBT people you are doing to us what the cracker did to your ancestors what the Romans did to the Christians and what the Nazi’s did to the Jews. You have followed in the footsteps of the KKK and Aryan nations. You are no different than those who hung our Christ on the cross, sent Anne Frank to the concentration camps, and committing genocide in Darfur.
Look in the mirror Sista you are no better than the man who shot Kennedy or Dr King.
@La: I can’t be at the march (I live a long way away), but marching is not the only form of advocacy. I must not be making my point very clearly, because all I’m saying is that if we keep working, I believe we will see results. And it does sound to me as if some people here (notably AMH) are giving up. Again, if you are firmly convinced that Obama will never fulfill his promises to the LGBT community, why would you continue to push for it?
@garychapelhill: No, that’s exactly my point: don’t “lie back and think of England.” Keep working for it. My concern is over the people who have given up on Obama, who feel that he is a lost cause. Even if I believed that was true (which I don’t), I fail to see the *practical* alternative. AMH says we should “TAKE [our] civil rights.” What does that mean? Armed revolution??
Speaking of armed rvolution. G*AY*S in many cities have started gangs that are known to terrorize people. I saw it on O’Reilly.
jjt — look, I tried to be nice. If you think I’m giving up, you really can go f*ck yourself. I am the OPPOSITE of giving up & it is a testament to your lack of critical thinking that you actually can characterize ME as being the one who is giving up. YOU are the one giving away your power.
Obama is not a beautiful unique snowflake. He is the same decaying organic matter as everything else
Now go f*ck yourself.
@garychapelhill:
You said: “mysista, before you lecture me, learn your history. One of MLK jr’s closest advisors, and the man who planned the March on Washington, Bayard Rustin, was a gay man. You shame Dr. King’s name with your bigotry.”
I say: Well whoop-de-dam-doo! What is that suppose to mean? You couldn’t possibly be meaning to imply that because MLK worked with a gay man that he embraced their paradigm.
I work with gay people on my job everyday. Barney Frank sits in the US congress and works with 400+ representatives on various committees all the time, and you certainly must know that just because the work with Mr. Frank they don’t automatically embrace what he embraces.
Surely you jest! You cannot be that shallow in your understanding.
It is actually YOU who shames Dr. Kings name by taking such liberties with the fact that he can work with people of all backgrounds. This speaks more to MLKs ability to follow after the cause of Christ and love all people than it does the distorted representation that you just espoused.
jjt — Trust in Obama? Trust in God. All others pay cash.
@mysista — You are not a beautiful unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else
Now go f*ck yourself.
@AMH: LOL — that’s you being nice?? So what, pray tell, are you doing — other than closing your mighty checkbook? I’m still looking for your practical alternative to continuing to lobby the administration to fulfill its promises — which, as I’ve pointed out repeatedly, would be a worthless exercise if you are convinced it will never come to pass.
mysista, then you obviously think that Mrs. King shamed her husband’s name as well.
jjt — aw, poor widdle baby — can’t be at the march because you live a long way away? That’s really putting your money where your mouth is.
But perhaps I’m being unfair — maybe you are too young to fly by yourself.
jjt — I’m not mean. You are just a sissy.
AMH, I wouldn’t be to hard on jjt. Perhaps I actually convinced him to stay away from the cornhole fest march. I am only trying to get out the facts!
@garychapelhill:
You said: “and mysista, even Dr. King’s widow, before she passed away, said that he would have believed that gay rights were civil rights. I’ll take her word over yours any day.”
I say: Actually, SOME of the things that you all fight for DO come under the banner of civil rights. Gay marriage is NOT one of them, and at no time did Coretta Scott King specifiy THAT as such. I also believe in your freedom just like mine. But the EXTRA freedom to redefine marriage is not a part of that.
And since you value the quotes of MLKs family members so much, here is one from his daughter(whom I’m sure you will label as a homophobe since she disagrees with you):
Bernice King, following at a conference in Auckland, New Zealand:
“I know deep down in my sanctified soul that he did not take a bullet for same-*** unions.”
toodles…
Cal Guy not all Christians are hateful I have said that you seem to ignore that I am a Christian and a Muslim and a Hindu and an atheist and a Jew I allow everyone to have their peace shalom and salaam and I want the same.
I find my love different from you. I hold my love as equally valid. You brought up the old arguments and answer nothing at all. You have projected your stereotypes on me. I do none on you. I believe you are hateful of g*a*y people and you clothe your hate in the wounds of Christ. I as G-D could raise sons of Abraham form stones in the desert do you not think Christ could raise Christians from grains of sand on the beach.
I owe you nothing. I issue you and Sista and all the other faux Christians this warning don’t be surprised that when you stand before judgment all your words here are entered it testament against you. Do not be surprised if every gay person dehumanized here today stares back at you from the face of the G-D.
What you call “grace” G-D calls self-righteous pride what you called being “born again” the Creator may call “Arrogance of the Pharisees”. If your rapture does come I am sure you will be the ones left behind and every person you thought you would be looking down on during the “tribulation” will be looking down on you.
Dr King would be ashamed of his daughter mysistah….and you did not acknowledge my parable to you up thread would you appreciate getting to chose you way of distruction before the cheering massed any more than I would by “being allowed to choose the woman of my choice to marry?”
@AMH: “You are just a sissy.” Actually, I take that as a compliment.
And I don’t think you’re mean; I just think you’re frightened and not thinking straight. You’ve let your (very understandable) emotions get the better of your rational faculty and stop you from considering where your rhetoric would take you if you followed it to its full, logical extent: either to complete passivity or to violence.
Well, as much fun as this has been, I do need my beauty sleep, so I cede the floor to you.
@michael/fuzzybeargville:
Please, stop with dramatics. I have not called for, nor do I condone the notion of people being murdered, beaten, or wholesale slaughtered just because they are gay. I simply don’t agree with same *** marriage. period. Stop being overly sensational will ya? If you consider a disagreement over a specific paradigm with you to be tanemount to the actions of slaveholders and the kkk, then you are simply clueless and I really won’t waste my time responding anymore to such irrational thinking.
shane the facts are you enjoy cornholing the thought of it facinates you and you cant wait till some big trucker comes to your sad corner of Ohio and bends you over….then and only then I believe you will get over this sick obcession and facination you have.
I ll bet you’ve been in more stalls than larry craig!
I guess mysista couldn’t take the truth so she left. typical coward. Oh, and mysista, stop lying about Dr. King’s wife. –here’s the truth–
The widow of Martin Luther King Jr. called gay marriage a civil rights issue, denouncing a proposed constitutional amendment that would ban it.
Constitutional amendments should be used to expand freedom, not restrict it, Coretta Scott King said Tuesday.
“Gay and lesbian people have families, and their families should have legal protection, whether by marriage or civil union,” she said.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-24-king-marriage_x.htm
jjt — “sissy” was meant as a joke. But don’t you dare characterize me as being scared or overly-emotionally. the only ones not thinking straight are those who still “trust” obama despite all of his actual concrete actions to the contrary.
Get your beauty sleep & pray in the morning you will WAKE THE F*CK UP.
OK, once again, I want to bring some realism to this post for all you homo’s and g*a*ys in this thread.
It doesn’t matter what the F*** Pres. Obama decides on SSM or Civil Unions. He can give an executive order tomorrow, but will that make people accept your lifestyle? NO !!!!!!!!!!!!
Pres. Obama doesn’t decide what my morals or America’s morals and beliefs will be. We don’t have to agree with you or him on homosexuality or whether he makes it a civil right or not. The people that don’t believe in the immorality of it will not support your brand of lifestyle choices.
So, I don’t give rats putoot and many people won’t either, on whether you pressure a President to give you benefits. That won’t- READ MY LIPS” I am going to say this LOUD- MAKE MORE PEOPLE ACCEPT YOU AS A HOMOSEXUAL. BARACK OBAMA, CAN’T DECIDE PEOPLE MORALS FOR THEM !!!!!
So, yes, people wake the heil up, the fact of the matter is you want more than benefits, you want acceptance and whatever % of christian or americana who thinks your lifestyle is vile will think so no matter what Pres. Obama does toward your g*a*y agenda of obtaining a right to be homosexual.
The one thing that will be certain is that people who view Pres. Obama as an immoral Pro-homo president will not vote for him in the next election. American doesn’t like anyone, not even Pres. Obama, to push immoral issues upon them.
So, all he quarantees himself for pandering to the g*a*y agenda is an exit from the whitehouse. DO YOU REALLY THINK I AM GOING TO CHANGE MY VALUES AND BELIEFS BECAUSE PRESIDENT OBAMA VALIDATE YOUR IMMORAL SEXUAL CHOICES AND ORIENTATION?
Do you think other people will change their values because Obama says so? Getting benefits and hate crime legislation passed for you is one thing- making people accept you immoral acts are another.
You still will be empty inside b/c benefits is not what you really want?
That’s why you want and are going after DOMA on the Federal level because you think nationally this will make people accept you.
Sorry, pathetic g*a*y people, you can’t change religious practice and thought with forced legislation upon a people; you just create more resentment!!! End of Story, End of the truth telling.
So, g*a*y people, stop dreaming and wishing for acceptance. Obama can’t make people like you and overturning or repealing DOMA or DADT won’t make you anymore likeable. PLEASE WAKE THE HEIL UP AND SEE OBAMA NOT YOUR SAVIOR OR THE PROBLEM…………..AMERICA AND IT’S RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS AND CHRISTIAN TRADITIONS ARE…….and no one can make people like what they dislike thru force !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gary — mysista wouldn’t recognize the truth if it reared its head & bit her in the ***.
Gay people in the USA are kidding themselves.Obama like 99.5% of black americans is homophobic to the core (The passing of Prop 8 in California pushed by the black and latino vote proves it).He needs the gay vote and so he will lie and posture as a friend to gay people while giving very little to their agenda.The defense of DOMA at the Court shows exactly where Obama has his priorities.His reluctancy to repeal “Don’t Ask,Don’t Tell” certainly shows Obama real feelings about giving gay people true freedoms. They will never get more than lip service from Obama and the White House.I hope gay people come to realize that they are being played for fools by Obama and his people.
@garychapelhill:
You said: “mysista, then you obviously think that Mrs. King shamed her husband’s name as well.”
I say: No I don’t think that all. I just don’t think that her comments had anything to do with same *** marriage–Just like the rest of the civil rights movement had nothing to do with it. No one was talking about same *** marriage when they spoke about freedom, justice, and equality for all. I think YOU and your ilk are misrepresenting her words for your own purposes.
It starts with same *** marriage then it leads to slaughter…
Sorry honey in Germany it started with denying Jewish women the right to wear fur coats and silk stockings. Next they took away the honors and medals of Jewish men who fought for Germany in WWI. Next it was the Nuremberg laws…then the camps and finally the gas chambers and crematoria….
Once you deny the humanity and equality in your fellow man or woman your are the thing you hate mysistah.
You might as well wear a sheet and burn a cross in Dr Kings.
Hate is Hate ask Dr Mandela or Desmond TuTu.
obama and holder just want **** and lesbians to shut up, provide their votes and donations and remain seated in the back of the bus.
keep reading mysista…
I have a question because I’m admittedly not educated on what the LGBT Community is fighting for. I’m a straight man and I consider myself to be open-minded. The question is – what civil rights are being denied? I’ve looked up civil rights and the basic list is as follows: (1) life, liberty, pursuit of happiness (2) make an enforce contracts, to sue, be parties to, and give evidence (3) vote (4) same pay regardless of gender (5) no age discrimination (6) no discrimination for disabilities.
Am I missing something? Is the contract of marriage and the resulting spousal benefits considered a civil right? I know that some states allow common law (both same and opposite ***) healthcare benefits but I don’t think any allow any type of survivor benefits. Or is the fight more about being discriminated against in the workplace for wages or promotions?
My question is not intended to offend any or cause trouble, I am honestly just looking for more information and to understand the issues.
@michael/fuzzybeargville:
You said: “and you did not acknowledge my parable to you up thread would you appreciate getting to chose you way of distruction before the cheering massed any more than I would by “being allowed to choose the woman of my choice to marry?”
I say: I didn’t see any parable in your previous post. If this is a reposting of it, I’m sorry, but I don’t understand the question. rephrase please, and make it plain.
those are her words mysista, not mine. her purposes too, which happen to be the same as mine. Like I said, we shall overcome despite people like you. Your grandchildren will learn about US in school. Your hate, on the other hand, will become a footnote in history.
Itdoesntmakesence-Your approval of my or our lives (not life style you moron/ living in a restricted neighborhood with a restricted mind, driving a Porsche and summering in St Bart’s is a lifestyle!)as I said your approval is neither required nor is it desired what we want is the force of law that makes yours or anyone else’s approval of same s*e*x marriage – irrelevant.
my sistah: here it is for your comment:
Sista: What if tomorrow America was defeated by a larger and more powerful country that believed that all people with skin color darker than a paper grocery bag should be killed. You were told that the right to be free and live was a special right under the laws of the conquering nation.
You do not possess that special right because of your skin color. You did have the right to choose the method of your elimination because the new power is not like the Nazi’s who denied this to their sub human classes they believe in R@cism 3.0! Your choices were to be strangled gassed with cyanide or put down a meat grinder in front of a large cheering audience with others just like you.
When you argued that your skin color was innate and you had no control over it because it was genetic and G-d made you this way the Occupying Country said that was not their problem that was between you and your G-D. Oh and be sure to take it up with him as you will be meeting him soon.
In case you were thinking this is preposterous then I would let you know every bit of this scenario was pulled from history; human history from Rome till today.
Sista, when you put down and spread hate about LGBT people
you are doing to us what the cracker did to your ancestors what the Romans did to the Christians and what the Nazi’s did to the Jews. You have followed in the footsteps of the KKK and Aryan nations. You are no different than those who hung our Christ on the cross, sent Anne Frank to the concentration camps, and committing genocide in Darfur.
How would you feel sistah if you were presented with the argument that because of your skin color you did not have the right to exsist? as stated in the “parable: above?
Look in the mirror Sista you are no better than the man who shot Kennedy or Dr King.
@garychapelhill:
You said: “Your grandchildren will learn about US in school.”
I say: Ya know, I have always said that this is the ultimate goal. To indoctrinate young children. Anywho, my grandchildren will actually learn about you in CHURCH where they will be taught the truth of God’s will and what rebellion to His will looks like when the creaTION thinks they know more than their creaTOR.
toodles again…
I love snoopy, the peanuts dog and all of the comic strips from the peanuts. Why can’t I get equal rights as a snoopy lover? I vote, I pay my taxes, but nowhere on my tax return can I get equal rights with the “snoopyphobes”. All of us who love snoopy need to get together and demand that Obama recognises us and gives us our Constitutional rights to get tax breaks because we love snoopy. Only at the Mall of America in Minnasota do they have snoopyworld, Snoopy lovers in all states should demand that the government recognize us as a large voting block that wants snoopyworld for our state.
mysista what about your lies about Mrs. King? The more you get called out on your lies about the facts the more you rely on your hateful religion. Typical.
Sistah and company I am turning in now as I have a long trip ahead this next week ahead. I have a reunion in Tennessee all next week with my loving Christian and supporting family….
Keep spreading your tolerance and Christian love and be sure to put extra starch in your sheets before doing any cross burnings.
Shane if you need any pointers in that special act you are obsessed with I can’t help you bud I don’t do closet cases.
good night
Snoopylover, if you convinced the govt that snoopy was your version of Jesus then you probably would get your rights. Everyone who claims that being gay is a choice, or that we want special rights conveniently ignores the fact that their choice to be christian is also afforded rights and protections in this country. Should we get rid of those too? i mean you chose to be a christian, you weren’t born that way, right?
Mikefuzz – A faux christian? In California 84% of christians who attended church regularly voted for prop 8. The bible states in Romans 1:27 “In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion”. Christianity is based on the Holy Bible. It’s a free country you don’t have to agree. But to claim christians that are opposed to same gender relations are “faux” christians and will be somehow disappointed in heaven is intellectually dishonest. Where is what you claim to be “real” christianity in the bible. Rather than insult and ridicule you should share your revelation. Seriously. You can guarantee salvation if we bow down and believe in your opinions. You don’t honestly believe that most christians share your view. That doesn’t make it right or wrong but you are being dishonest. You can love whomever you wish. The bible states that if you take away nothing else love one another. Maybe you should be condemning India, China the Middle East or other countries where public affection of any kind is discouraged. You have your beliefs and you are entitled to them. Fortunately I have friends that I love and respect who share your lifestyle that do respect my faith as I respect their right to live their life as they choose. If after all is said and done if you feel this kinship with the struggle for civil rights for blacks, go out and engage in civil disobedience, take the dogs, the water hoses, the nooses, the bullets but don’t do on the cheap by trying to piggyback on the blood of others. The battle hymn of the republic states that ” he (Jesus) died to make men holy and now we die to make men free”. This was a struggle that lasted a hundred years after a bloody civil war. It took constitutional amendments and laws that were voted on. I can claim to have the basic civil right to be nude in public or smoking a joint on the john but its not in the constitution. The declaration of independence states “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness” This assumes rights derive from God. If not then from where?
@michaelfuzzybeargville:
That is NOT a parable. That’s an overly sensational diatribe and I DID respond to it already. It was the first thing I posted to you. There are too many posts for me to go back and find the response, so you should go back and see what YOU missed. I believe I started my response to you off with something like “stop with the dramatics”.
Snoopylover you are just pathetic Snoopy while lovable and probably gay (snoopy’s unnatural relationship with Woodstock would ensure that your love for him will forever be unrequited) is a two dimensional fictional character…but hey if you want recognition for that then I am behind you.
We are talking about real breathing human beings being denied there rights LGBT people are not comic strip characters get real!nite nite for real!
Hey Mysista, rebute this article about Coretta Scott King and Gay marriage: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-24-king-marriage_x.htm ohh yeah, dont vote present like Obama by ignoring this post.
mysistah-that is not a response that is avoidance….if I were you I would not sleep soundly your soul may be required of you…..and all these words here are a testament to your arrogance and pride.
You inability to walk a mile in any one’s shoes leads me to believe It is I who will be pleading for your soul for I know I am unworthy! I have walked in the shoes of my sister and bothers…try mine on I am sure yours would be too tight for me!
a parable is a story with a moral lesson….I am sure you would leave the the man beaten in the ditch you are no good samaritan
Specially if the person robbed and beaten was gay and lesbian and covered in blood and you were dressed for church in with your new crown…because heck you have to get home and serve the” gospel bird” because the preacher was coming over for dinner!
NOBAMA and garychapelhill:
I read that article and it does not matter. Coretta Scott King is simply wrong and apparently went astray from her faith. Even her own church and several other SCLC members disagreed with her, and so do I. I didn’t realize she had strayed so far from the bible truth. Thank God her daughter got it right. I have much respect for Coretta Scott King, but I still vehemently disagree with her. She ain’t perfect, but the bible is, and it is the final authority.
@michael/fuzzybeargville,
sure g*a*y dude. whatever you say. No law can ever make my dissaproval irrelent, nor will- it make it make any one elses irrelevent.
If a law was passed tomorrow, christians will not have to accept your lifestyle. So WTH will an executive order do or the passage of a license or right to marry other homo’s in other states do?
It is already against the law to discriminate against you in the work place now and how will getting federal benefits for g*a*y partner any different from wills or power of attorneys?
You, Mr. michael/fuzzybeargville, are FOS, when you say people validation of your orientation is not your goal. The very statement of making my approval irrelent by law says you want approval.
Use the financial system and legal means in place now to acquire you “as you say” your benefits from your ho*mo choice and lifestyle but stop asking the United States to redefine the intended pairing of the species to include your immoral sexual acts when they don’t legalize other immoral sexual perversions.
What I care about is that your kind will be messing up the minds of children who decision and ideal of traditional opposite-s*e*x relationships will be presented with a sexual choice that is notthe intended sexual selection for the specie of the human race.
So, if it doesn’t matter about acceptance, why the heil are you people on this thread, and what every State to give you a marriage license for validation? If it doesn’t matter file your legal brief for benefits and shut the f**k up!!!!!
But now we know that you and the LGBT rainbow f***s are a lying sack of ***t when you say it not about American accepting your g*a*yness or decision to be g*a*y. ROTHFLMAO at yo pathethic a*zz. Did you think everybody fall for your facade. Ha, ha, you provided you lie right in your post- “You want to make our approval irrelevent by law”
Lying MikeFotrox………………………………….
mysista is in for one hell-of-a shock come Judgement Day. Wish I could be there!
I fail to grasp why LGBT people claim they are being denied their “civil rights”. Nobody is trying to disrupt activities or tell people who they can or can’t live or sleep with. LGBT groups out here in California are upset about not having the right to marry due to Prop 8, but they never had that right in any society historically going back thousands of years. Virtually every major company now gives family benefits to domestic partners or, in many cases, they simply extend benefits to someone you designate who lives with you, so it is not even really a gay-straight issue. When the homosexual community first strove to get political power 20+ years ago, the empahasis was trying to make sure they weren’t being mistreated in communities or on the job just for identifying themselves as homosexual. I strongly supported those efforts, as did just about everyone else I know. The fight to expand employment benefits was also a positive thing, as I stated it affected more than just the gay community, and it made many benefit programs more inclusive, regardless of a person’s living situation. But this movement has gone too far, and is losing support from most of us who are outside it, because the LGBT political movement now wants to invent special rights for themselves. Defining these relationships as a “marriage” defies almost everyone’s understanding of that term since the beginning of humanity. Their push to present heterosexual and homosexual relationships on equal terms in schools confuses kids who should not yet have to deal with these issues, and has led to a wholesale exodus from public schools here. These high-profile and far-reaching grabs for power are creating a huge backlash against the LGBT community and stoking even greater destructive culture wars, which is the last thing we need right now. LGBT people should be grateful that they live in a society that is one of the most tolerant on earth, and does not shun them simply for identifying themselves as being LGBT.
@michaelfuzzybeargville:
You said: “Specially if the person robbed and beaten was gay and lesbian and covered in blood and you were dressed for church in with your new crown…because heck you have to get home and serve the” gospel bird” because the preacher was coming over for dinner!”
I say: Are you asking me what I would do if I came accross someone in this state? If you are, my answer is that I would stop and help anyone in need just like I always do, and I don’t ask questions about their sexuality before I help. Listen, I disagree with same *** marriage, but that does not mean that I have no compassion for people in need. I don’t dole out help based on ANYTHING except a person’s need for it and my ability to give it. I love my son, but I take serious issue with him when he’s wrong. Even when I am in disagreement with him, I still help him if he needs it, and I do it without compromising what I know is right and wrong.
Your inability to deal constructively and genuinely with disagreement and/or dissent is amazingly over the top!
@MGS:
You said: “mysista is in for one hell-of-a shock come Judgement Day. Wish I could be there!”
I say: This is going to be bitter medicine for you to swallow but here goes. Actually, unless you’re jewish, you WILL there, and I’ll be among the judges, for it is written:
I CORINTHIANS 6:1
1 ¶ Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
PM – It is indeed about the rights, benefits, & responsibilities of marriage…over 1,000 of them at the federal level alone. Even with state-level marriages and civil unions, same-gender couples are denied the 1000+ rights conferred by the federal gov’t on all straight marriages.
Basic state rights denied to same-gender couples who are not allowed to marry in states where they cannot marry include: automatic inheritance, retirement fund & pension inheritance, child custody, joint adoption/foster care/parenting, joint bankruptcy, property & other tax exemptions, hospital visitation for children & partner, illness & bereavement leave, domestic violence protections, reduced consumer and insurance rates based upon family/marital status, medical decision-making on behalf of a partner, wrongful death claims, spousal privilege/immunity from testifying against a spouse, and many more.
These & others are denied at the federal level as well, including Social Security Survivor Benefits, pension/savings/401k & property inheritance (including tax-free transfer of property between spouses), immigration rights, veteran’s discounts & access to military stores (not to mention DADT discharges!), joint tax filings, line of duty survivor benefits, tax-free health care insurance coverage for spouse & dependents, federal income & property tax exemptions, and many many more.
Links to GAO reports outlining federal code references to marriages and its associated rights, benefits, & responsibilities:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/og97016.pdf
My partner & I own a home together, yet only one of us gets a tax advantage, and even with very costly wills, medical directive directives, powers of attorney, and other legal documents drawn up, there is no guarantee — i.e. no security — that our home will continue to be the home of whoever dies after the other. Married straight couples take that basic right for granted, as well they should — you are life partners, fully invested together in a lifetime together, there should be no need for additional legal documents to ensure that property transfer after one of you dies…and there should definitely be NO possibility that some distant relative of either of you could just show up out of the blue and walk away with everything, leaving you or your spouse with no home or property after a lifetime together. For same-gender couples today, most of us are seen by courts as legal strangers to each other. That is just wrong. Period. On my deathbed, I want to KNOW that my partner keeps the house we’ve both paid for over many many years….right now it’s a crapshoot that depends on a judge honoring our very obvious long-term relationship and our legal papers. THAT is not security. Not even close. Did I mention my 401(k) and Social Security benefits that I’ve paid into just like every other American? End-of-life decisions? Pick any of them…we just want what every other loving committed adult couple wants.
Greetings to mysista !
As a AA male I’m in complete agreement with you. I also grew up in a civil rights family. In fact my family tree includes Nat Turner, Marcus, and many other Black pioneers. To see our struggle be watered down, hijacked and misinterpreted is truly disheartening. I believe the majority of the Black community is indeed on our side (witness California). That is not to say we wish any harm to the homosexual community, but if they truly understood where we came from , they would not push the equation.
As you put forth our community is in desperation. I left the Democratic Party years ago as I saw it as just the opposite side of the same coin. Affluent and condescending, elitist and arrogant- using the minority community when times were right. At least we knew where the Republican’s stood ( The biggest mistake the Black community made was not taking hold of the Republican Party, post-slavery!). As usual, and unfortunately, I believe this is ultimately a Black/White issue. The homosexual community, at least in the political circles, is largely affluent and white. What could they possible understand about the Black struggle? I remember their Stonewall, but I also remember the long, hot summers of the ’60’s. I remember the news showing what Bull Connor was doing. I saw MLK speak in D.C., and recall the night Malcolm was assasinated; and my family worked in the Poor People Campaign, was at Resurrection City in D.C. and in Mississippi. We worked with Shirley Chislom and Ralph Abernathy, the Berrigans, etc. etc. Even had a (very short) stint with the “o.g.” Black Panther movement.
To the homosexual community I say you must have patience. If you marched and died with us, and made your agenda known from the beginning, without fear of backlash (like many Whites who were beaten and killed during the civil rights days), then we may have seen you in a different light and show more support. First you have to listen to us. Not with half a heart, but with full heart and soul. I can unequivocally say you will NEVER, in this country, go through what we have. Never see your community ravaged like ours, or destroyed for convenience sake. And it will never happen because some lessons were learned. So for that you should be grateful.
To my Black people who happen to be homosexual, it is up to you to teach your White counterparts humility, respect and patience, and a little Black history as well. They continue to isolate us and demean our beliefs and people who speak not only for us but like us. Continue that and we will never come to their side.
After all these years I am comfortable now with the fact that we will live as a separate Black/White nation because our beliefs and cultures are too strong. That’s not to say we need to act violently towards each other, but life is short and it is what it is. I prefer not to engage socially beyond my level of comfort, and I am sure most people here agree. Democrat or not, at the end of the day we go to separate beds and communities. My community is Black.
Keep writing mysista.
Peace
@Tom:
BRAVO my brother!!!!! I have absolutely experienced the same things you have cited. I too ONCE supported all the things on their behalf that you supported, and unfortunately, I am living to regret it. I just had a poster up thread boasting to me of how my grandchildren will read abot LGBTs in school. No matter what victories they gain, they continue to push the envelope further and further, now demonstrating the very same intolerance that they claim to loath.
Again, WELL SAID!
Good Grief. I’m a Christian and gay and I feel like my rights are fine. I dont want to rub my gayness in everyone’s face in America. And I don’t want the straight folks to rub in their straightness either. Why can’t we all unite for the common good of all? You guys have missed the boat. I’m also a business owner and my business is hurting, bad. I employee people and pay them well so they can have a good living. I have not paid myself in weeks. Our economy is failing. We have to worry about it first or there will be no jobs for families, straight or gay to live on.
@vrystr8:
Greetings back at’cha. It’s exasperating. I have been a democrat all my life and so has all my family. But I think this party has been completely co-opted by the LGBT community, and now I see why George W Bush was able to garner 13% of the African American vote in 2000. Most of that 13% were from the faith community and they saw this coming. I heard the warnings but didn’t think much of it. I voted for President Obama this time out, thinking that since he supports the paradigm of marriage between one man and one woman, it would be ok. Well, I’m telling you, if he allows the LGBT community to brow beat him into submission with their bogus attempts to hijack civil rights, it will be time to make some tough decisions.
Obama does not want to be seen by the Muslim nations as giving anything to the gay community unless it is already law.
He is a Muslim, get use to it.
I hear the same old ‘argument’ from the GL community. It just comes in different twists. It’s the ‘We need our rights and we need them right now’. First of all, Gay and Lesbian behavior is not normal, so you can’t put yourself in the same category of blacks getting their civil rights. Now you may say I am wrong (some more adamantly than others) but all your anger won’t change the fact that your behavior is ‘on the sick side’. Even if someone got right up to you and spoke nose to nose with you, it wouldn’t matter because you believe your behavior is ok. I am a very compassionate and gentle person and I will not be manipulated or fall for your child like behavior and be deceived! Understand that you can’t put a square peg into a circle!
Where’s the needed “dialoge” anyway? WE HOLD THESEN TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT THAT ALL MEN (AND WOMEN) ARE CREATED EQUALLY AND ENDOWED WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, SUCH AS LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!
Everyome deserves to be granted EQUAL rights in this country wheither you agree with their beliefs or not. PERIOD!
And for those that wish to make a LEGAL issue out of a RELIGIOUS belief? There is a seperation of church and state in this country. When churches start paying taxes, they can have a say. But in MY world, if you don’t PAY, then you don’t PLAY!
This is gross. Besides, your demands distract Pres. Obama from passing a solid health care reform. Can’t you guys realize that?
Isn’t Donnie McKlurkin part of a hate group or a Nazi or something?
Our President knows The True meaning of “Love thy neighbor”
June 19, 2009 WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama says the biblical command to “love thy neighbor as thyself” is as pertinent now as ever.
The president said Friday that an entire community suffers when some members cannot pay their mortgages or find jobs. He called on Americans to work together to build a better future for everyone, including immigrants.
SOURCE:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_bible;_ylt=Ao4_weMTErJVOzYdrCQCjkMGw_IE;_ylu=X3oDMTE2MTBhNHY3BHBvcwMyBHNlYwN5bi1yLWItbGVmdARzbGsDLW9iYW1hOmJpYmxl
You see.. weather you believe in the bible or not, it today as it has been over centuries, not only in this country, but in every country around the world, plays and contains the most important basic element to which our most basic laws for mankind to follow were and are written from in everyone’s daily life weather you realize it or not !! The speaking of “The seperation of Church and State” is meant that the Government shall not
choose or favor any denominational Religious Group in Governing to the makings of any laws to Govern over its people of its lands other then what the Holy Bible it self states as a non-denominational entity !
Here is something that happens today in the 21st century known as saragent mothers. How people today agree for a woman, other than the wife of the husband, to carry and bear a child for a husband and wife who’s wife can not bear children and how they achieve a close friendly relationship until the time of conception happens to the time of birth do the 2 women begin to despise each other. Even then when the child is born they then fight for who should get the child. Does this ring a bell ?? Well.. read Genesis 16: verse 1 – 9. Now grant you, back then, they had maid servants to the wife’s to serve them as they were commanded to do. This was known as slavery back then which no longer is allowed today. Thanks to Abraham Lincoln who was a white man. However though, the principle is the same today through contracts between the 3 parties for this kinds of agreement. Interesting huh ??
Well.. here is another thing you will find very interesting… We the people are to obey the laws of our land made by our govern authorities !! It states this in Romans 13: verses 1 – 7.
Here is another one concerning “restitution” EXODUS 22: verses 1 – 15
Here is another concerning the laws of “Human Relations” EXODUS 22: verses 16 – 31
Here is another one concerning “Judgements Concluded” EXODUS 23: verses 1 – 13
Jesus speaks of the Old Testament and how those scriptures are still held as being valid in St. John 6: verses 43 – 47 and in St. John 7: verses 16 – 19
Here is one concerning the acts of sin of “incest” “adultery” “homosexuals” LEVITICUS 18: verse 1 – 30
Here is one concerning the “punishment for committing the sins in LEVITICUS 18″ LEVITICUS 20: verses 1 – 22
Here is one concerning “People paying Taxes and how the Priests (churches) are exempt from paying taxes” GENESIS 47: verses 23 – 26
Here is one concerning the meaning of “Marriage and Divorce” MATTHEW 19 verses 3 – 12
Now you can read them and weep !!!
I also agree with cory | June 20th, 2009 at 04:58 am, who wrote “I will not be manipulated or fall for your child like behavior and be deceived!”
I love this saying made by Madcap | June 20th, 2009 at 06:15 am, “When churches start paying taxes, they can have a say. But in MY world, if you don’t PAY, then you don’t PLAY!”
I have one thing to say to that response…It is not the Churches that are to say but the People of the Churches who do in fact pay taxes as individuals ! And we the tax paying people of these Churches do have the right to play and say ! It is just the priests that do not have to pay taxes.
It is amazing how many bigots there out there that use religion as a bludgeon against anyone they disagree with. You cannot see your hate and anger clothed in your own pride and self righteousness.
Look we don’t agree on same s*e*x marriage. You Faux Christians are entitled to your hate and bigotry up to the point it affects the lives of other people. Go on and D*mn all the LGBT people to hell as you see fit.
What you do not have a right to is forcing your beliefs on us and more enlightened Christians. See the narrow minded interpretation of scripture you carry in your head has never been part of the “law of the land” and sense no one in the room has sat down with G-D or Christ or the Holy Spirit for lattes and discussed these things you can’t be sure that your interpretation is correct.
The Bible is a wonderful story filled with rape, incest, murder, and so many awful things that it should be X-rated. It also contains probably the best wisdom of its time 2000 BCE to the second century CE. The Old testament refers to YHWH a good of retribution anger and war. The new testament is filled with references of a G-D that perceives itself as our creator-parent.
This book was written by men, who did not know the world was round, nor the existence of the atom or genetic code. The people who wrote the Bible no matter how divinely inspired were not G-D themselves. They were attempting to convey the concepts of fairness and decency that mirrored their own un enlightened times.
Because of these things and many others we have hundreds of sects of Christianity that believe they hold the way the truth and the light and everyone else is wrong. It is why our country has to take a “hands off” on religion and those purveyors of each faith are not allowed to force their beliefs on marriage or any other thing on those who believe differently or not at all.
You are wrong stop using the Bible a as weapon against the LGBT community we are not buying what you are selling.
A mind is a terrible thing to have when all you do with it is waste it!
Oh and for you dumb Faux Christians I will remind you that Leviticus is the law that we were delivered from by the blood and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So stop quoting it.
This is why I can eat shrimp and not have to worry about being put to death for it. In fact the dietary laws and lack of adherence to them were as big an abominations as anything you cherry pick from the Book of Leviticus.
Leviticus is not the law of the land in the USA. If it was then no person of color could approach the sanctuary of God nor woman….
Leviticus is not the law of the land in the USA. If it was then no person of color could approach the sanctuary of G-D nor could any woman….
Oh and the word homosexual or Sodomite was never written in John, Luke, Matthew or Mark…you are changing the word of G-D that is a big No-No….you bring condemnation on yourselves when you do it.
Oh and the great sin of Sodom was inhospitality read Genesis in the original Hebrew text. The citizens of that town practiced sexual dominance through rape of conquered peoples and visitors. Angels have no *** organs so it is a misinterpretation to say Lott offered his daughters instead of the angels among them and the people of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted the angels because they were men. They wanted the Angels because they were visitors and outsiders not because of their non-existent *** gender identity.
Oh and the great sin of Sodom was inhospitality read genesis in the original hebrew test. the citizens of that town practiced sexual dominance through rape of conquered peoples. Angels have no *** so it is a missinterpretation to say lott offered his daughters instead of the angels among them and the people of Sodom and Gamorrah wanted the angels
I just don’t get it. **** want to shove down our throats a lifestyle that most Americans find repulsive. They have a right to be the way the want to be. Just don’t try to force us into acceptance of a deviate lifestyle or pay to support it. Obama has now forced us to pay benefits to them. They need to get off this I am gay and have no choice. It is a lifestyle choice and that is it.
As a gay man I can see a future where the laws will be changed and will be in accordance with the Constitution of the United States. Laws do not affect the way the straight world judges us, we will have to earn that. How? Lets use one example, the Pride Parades which make us look completely ridiculous! Some of the people in those parades make me ashamed that I am gay!! We have to earn the rights that we are working so hard for, when we march in a parade almost naked, how many straights do you think will back us???
Sam Jones
You are dead wrong about **** choosing that lifestyle, that is what YOU want to believe. No one in their right mind would choose to be treated like a second class citizen, be hated and ostracized. You may not be aware of it, but you have members of your family, co-workers and friends who are gay!! If members of the straight community would bother to get to know one gay person, they would change their minds about how they think of them!
till i get my civil rights obama wont get my money.
sorry for the poor cut and paste of my above post…
Here is what this whole thing comes down too. Cornholing.
The g*a*y*s are spreading diseases to an epidemic proportions according to the CDC, and young black men are suffering greatly over it.
I still ask, why does cornholing require a license?
Has anyone payed any attetion to what is going on? The end of times is here, I am so shocked that our heavenly Father has not wiped us off the map,. But hey lets not talk about reality. If anyone wants to know what is going on read revelations..(ITs IN THE BIBLE)
The Bible:
Lessons about marriage:
Genesis 16:1-3 (New International Version)
Genesis 16
Hagar and Ishmael
1 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her.”
Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.
Heavenly Father’ grace and love:
Genesis 15:13-15 (New International Version)
13 Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. 15 You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age.
from the bible also(same text that condems ” gay” people:
Leviticus 25:45-47 (New International Version)
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Today’s Sermon is on The Nature of the Faux Christian’s concept of God.
I find it funny that many so called Christian articles of faith have no basis in Jewish tradition or belief. The devil and Hell are not Jewish traditions they are Greek Pagan traditions woven into Christian teachings. There is no Hell in Judaism or Devil. Sheol is the place where all souls go to await Gods judgment in Jewish traditions.
The serpent was not Satan it clearly could not be. Sin had not entered creation because man and woman had not yet disobeyed G-D, so the thought that impurity entered the serpent or even existed would have been a logical conundrum that Jewish scholars would have had a hard time reconciling with.
Satan was the G-D Hades from Greek Mythology. The Idea of Heaven came from the polytheistic Egyptians as did the physical resurrection of the body…look at all the mummies they created. The creations of these Ideas are purely non-Jewish in their tradition.
Jews did not concern themselves with what was next that was G-D’s business not a concern of the affairs of his chosen people. The Torah does not deal with why we are here or why did G-D make us? In Fact The Book of Job (not part of the Torah) makes it clear in G-D’s rebuke of Job that his ways are not our ways and the “why” was his business “…where were you (Job) when I created the world when I willed time into existence?…”
When G-D told Moses to tell the people of Israel that I AM sent him he was telling the Jewish people to “mind their own business”. The reason for this was because the belief system that existed at of the time of Moses was the knowing of a god’s name gave the human being power over that god to manipulate him or her. G-D was telling Moses he wasn’t like the other gods worshiped through idolatry. He was a G-D who could not be manipulated. This concept was new and unique to the G_D of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Israel. Prior to the time of Moses the name of their G-D was often referred to as El.
What does this have to do with same s*e*x marriage or gay civil rights? Well it’s like this there are too many beliefs in the One many or any god. You cannot be so sure that you are totally right in your interpretation of G-D’s will (if you are then you are guilty of the sin of pride just like Satan who has no basis in Jewish tradition but is a Christian Pagan creation). In fact if you read the Bible G-D and The Christ spend most of their time rebuking folks like you striking them down etc.
Since the society and I as a whole cannot trust your beliefs as having the market cornered on divine truth, we cannot build a society and laws around your beliefs (you could and most probably are wrong given the history of the Pharisees in the new testament.) You must be allowed to hold your beliefs and even be allowed to spout them off as you see fit (it is what we do in a free society) but we cannot let you impose them on anyone who rejects your beliefs.
To do otherwise is to take our secular democracy down the road of theocracy like in Iran and like that of the Pilgrims. We see today where that leads to in Iran both the institutions of government and religion corrupted and perverted. Our founding fathers saw where that leads to in their time with the Salem witch trials in Massachusetts. I respect that lesson. I don’t need to learn it again even if you do.
MikeFuzz, you STILL need to vist Schoenbrunn village in Ohio to find out the TRUTH.
It was Ohios FIRST settlement that wrote Ohios FIRST civil codes. AND it was Christian Moravians.
It was a village with a SCHOOL and CHURCH in the center surrounded by homes.
Some liberals wanted to burn the place down to cover up history and TRUTH!
I guarantee you that there was NO cornholing there.
Morning Shane-for your information the CDC does not say that about **** or gay ***.
In most of the world HIV/Aids is spread through heterosexual s*e*x not corn holing (which you seem to be obsessed with in a most unhealthy way) In truth and fact Shane your favorite position with a girl is just as conducive to spreading HIV as mine is with a man. In this light Lesbian s*e*x seems to not easily transmit the virus with their type of love making. I suggest that if Shane wishes to stop the spread of HIV he should cut off his John Thomas and become a lesbian.
The key to your comment Shane are the words “it was” so was the Oneida Colony in upstate New York. Even today Shane their flatware is on the tables in millions of American homes.
The fact that Moravians founded a city in a state is meaningless because without the strictures preventing government medaling in the affairs of Schoenbrunn village their accomplishment would have been impossible. See the same laws that allowed them to establish their little piece of heaven protect me from having that same piece of heaven forced on me…thank you for making my argument for me!
Shane it is two words corn holing spell check is a wonderful thing….think about it.
MikeFuzz, you are once again spreading falsities. 67% of HIV is spread through MSM (men having *** with men), in other words…cornholing.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/resources/factsheets/images/msm-1.gif
and
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/resources/factsheets/msm.htm#ref30
Also, you really DO need to educate yourself on ourNations founding:
http://ohsweb.ohiohistory.org/places/ne06/index.shtml
You know the more I think about it… It was the Dems and Repos that instituted DOMA. I don’t understand why anyone thinks they will do anything to repeal it. I think its time all **** leave the “too big to fail” Repo/Demo parties and join the Libertarian one. While they may not agree with everything their agenda is inline with much of ours. I know that ideology falls into the equation – but liberty does too – and I am sick of falling two steps back every for an apparent win. We need to harness our collective muscle and make sure that we are respected rather than lied to.
BWWHHHAAAHHAA, what government was in Ohio before the Moravians?
A sword?
The Moravians was Ohios FIRST settlement, who wrote Ohios FIRST civil codes! YES, it was CHRISTian!
Scott I am for being independent in my voting regardless of what party is printed on my registration card.
Shane but Ohio was a territory not a state at that time Shane as doubt that the 50,000 people lived there as required by the constitution to be made a state.
What government was in Ohio before the Moravians…?
Well let’s see…the Ohio nation and many Non-Christian Native American people lived in Ohio before your precious Christians came. These natives had lived there for thousands of years building cities and practicing their own form of religion and government predating your Moravian Schoenbrunn village.
You are more moronic than I ever thought Shane.
My Sista, if you are in fact, deserving of that name, you should go back and look at Black History. Take a look at how our government equated inter-racial marriages back in the days. There are so many similarities that those of us in our Black Community are not aware of because we are too ignorant to do the research, or are too young and just don’t care about what our ancestors truly fought for, for our community! We are so quick to take offense at the Gay Community equating their Civil Rights Struggle with that of ours, when there are so many similarities. **** are beaten, harassed, lynched, vandalized, killed, discriminated against all because of the way they were BORN! Yes, homosexuality happens at birth My Sista, whether you want to admit it or not. You did not choose your heterosexuality just as **** and lesbians did not choose their homosexuality.
My Sista, you need to do some true Soul Searching my dear, for your bigotry and hate are what we in our BLACK community have fought so hard to end, and yet we don’t see how we perpetuate that same very Hate and Bigotry toward the Gay Community.
We need to ask ourselves why are so many Black men in our community living on the “Down Low”, is it because of the stigma we place on those who are gay? What does living on the “Down Low” do to our very own Black Community? It leads to our women of color now being the highest newly HIV infected rate. Our women are being infected and have made the top stastic, once held by those in the Gay Community, and we need to ask ourselves; “Why is that?” “How do we change that?”. We change it with acceptance, love and understanding. We stop the hate, for it will not stop without our help. We can not be that which we have worked so hard to denounce!
So My Sista, I ask you, no I beg you, look deep within your heart, and ask yourself; “How can I be part of the solution, instead of continuing to being part of the problem?”
We in our Black Community can come our HEROES in this situation or we can further the hate and bigotry.
Amen Big D you ae an enlightened person…God bless your open mind may it continue to spread light and truth!
@Big D:
Please see all my previous posts. I, as well as several other posters in this thread have already responded to the bogus assertations that you are making.
I will, however, comment on your claim of **** being “born” that way. That’s a load of balony. If you believe that, then walk into a nursery of new borns and tell me which ones are straight and which ones are gay. You know, just like you would be able to clearly distinguish the immutable characteristics of gender and race. Also, let me use death as a yardstick. First, I’m not equating or calling for death, but just using it to make a point. Ever notice what happens when an un-identified corpse is found somewhere? When they get done doing the forensics, they tell you the remains were that of a man/woman, black/white/hispanic, ets, around X years old. Notice that there is NEVER any mention of the person’s sexuality. That is not a coincidence. It’s like that because there is ABSOLUTELY no genetic marker or immutable charcteristic that identifies a persons sexuality, whether it is homo or hetro. Sexual proclivities are not established by genetics. If it were, you would be able to establish at birth and death what a person’s orientation was, just like the immutable characteristics of gender, race, and age. So save that argument for some other unsuspecting person.
The LGBT community is simply perpetrating this fraud because of their own deep seated convictions about the unnaturalness of what they do. In their heart of hearts they know that they are CHOOSING to do something that is in no way natural, and they need a cover, so they try and blame it on God to force others not to call it out for what it is. It’s a choice, and they need to simply own their choice. They are no more born gay than a murderer is born a murderer, or a drunkard is born an alcholic, or a cigarette smoker is born a smoker. ALL are individual choices based on preferences from LEARNED behavior. A simple difference is that murderers, cigarette smokers, alcholics, etc., are not trying to scapegoat their CHOICE and blame it one someone else in order to force society to accept it.
So if you wanna believe that load of poppycok, go right ahead. “De Nile” is not just a river in Africa!
@mysista: So you say the LGBT community is acting “bratty” for asking not be be discriminated against in 1,138 ways? We’re asking our federal government (to which we pay our taxes) to defend and protect us – to make us full and equal human beings rather than second-class citizens and you call us “brats”. Incredible!
Reading this thread has been extremely disturbing–as a gay male, a Democrat, a liberal. The level of animosity directed toward the President is shocking. The level hostility directed toward the LGBT community from African Americans and Christians is shocking. I guess I am most dismayed by the hopelessness and cynicism that pervade these comments. This country is a much better place for the LGBT community today than it was a year ago–or even six months ago (e.g. gay marriage is legal in almost all of New England). It’s dramatically different today than it was ten years ago. We have the best friend we have ever had in the White House now. With that said, I was disgusted by the DOMA brief and emailed my complaint to White House. Even though I would like DOMA and DADT to be overturned now, I believe the President will eventually move in that direction. I am going to be patient–for now. I am not saying any of this to squash dissent or even to defend the president. Protest, write the President, stop donating money. These are our rights. This is how politics works. And no one should be called bratty for exercising their rights as members of a democracy. But please take some time to enjoy this moment–a moment of great progressive change for the LGBT community. The struggle is far from over. But I like to stop every once and a while to count my blessings. Think about that: a gay man counting his blessings in America.
All I was trying to say mysista is that I don’t think you’re going to be quite this cocky when you have to stand before God to be judged. Unless you ARE God.
My Sista at what age were you when you decided you were no longer attracted to women and CHOSE to be attracted to men? At what age did you make that choice?
So according to My Sista, We in the GLBT community are the “Chosen People”! AWESOME! All this time I thought it was considered the Jews, but according to My Sista it is the GLBT community!
I would settle for nobody beating me up, raping me, or killing me…simply for existing as Gd created me. At least make that a federal crime. Please? My family deserves better.
My Sista, if we were to go by your analogy, which you don’t seem to have any facts to back up your analogy, nor can you come up with any legitimate stastics from the American Medical Association, or the American Psychiatric Association….how do you explain the latest stories in the news about same *** attraction in almost all of the animal kingdoms? Are you saying that theirs is “learned behavior” and they are “making a choice”?
Your reasonings that you give such as “smokers, murderers, dead bodies being identified” are so flawed even in their basic of logic that it’s laughable.
It’s time for you to either finally enroll and get your GED or God forbid if you are in college or have completed a college education, I suggest you get a good lawyer for you have been the subject of fraud by all of your educators!
And that line about “De Nile” that’s so in the past….Girl…you need to come into the 21st Century! know what i’m sayin’ girl?
People, don’t even respond to My Sista. She’s seeking attention. She’s a poor misguided child starved for attention. Not unlike that of Sarah Palin, seeking her 15 minutes of FAME. Don’t give her attention, just ignore her posts, she will go away when she no longer gets that attention she so desperately seeks.
She may come back under a different name, but she is alone on here in her bigoted, racist, deluded beliefs.
Just ignore her posts as if they’re not even there.
Peace y’all! Keep up the fight.
The President needs to know when we think he is wrong! That is DEMOCRACY! He even told us in his speeches on more than one occasion that he is not perfect and we ARE to let him know when he has failed us! Hopefully, he will listen unlike other Presidents, and he will admit responsibility when he is wrong.
Pull funding from the DNC until they start working for YOUR community. Write the DNC tell them you will not support, endorse or donate to any one of their politicians running in 2010 until they make this right!
Money TALKS and Bu11s..t WALKS.
I’m telling you, it’s already making a difference by the numerous emails and pulling of G.AY money from the DNC just since the DOJ briefs on DOMA came out. They are meeting with the GLBT community. This is just 2 days of people threatening to pull funds from the DNC…So, if you want your voices heard go to the DNC website, click on “contact us” and tell them you’re pulling funding. You will do everything to see that they lose majority come the 2010 election. Money is the name of the game in politics! Trust me. It’s working! Flood the DNC with emails of pulling funds! Good Day All Y’all!
@Dan:
My first attraction to a boy for something beyond normal friendship, i.e., to specifically be my boyfriend was at twelve years old. Prior to that, I had no sexual proclivities or interest in anything other than friendship with boys and girls.
@Sarah:
You said: “So according to My Sista, We in the GLBT community are the “Chosen People”! AWESOME! All this time I thought it was considered the Jews, but according to My Sista it is the GLBT”
I say: In all your getting, get UNDERSTANDING. I never said such a thing. You may wanna go back and re-read my post.
Reading is fundamental, but comprehension is key. Yours is sadly lacking.
@Ben:
Whatever Ben. I am not going to discuss animals with you in order to explain human behavior. Maybe animals are YOUR role model, but they are not mine. Hmmmm, that may the WHOLE problem.
toodles…
@Tony:
You can rest assure that I don’t morph into other cyber names. On every board I post, I am mysistagirl or mysista and no other name. You can take that to the bank. I have no reason to hide behind multiple identities.
MGS – No one should be cocky on judgement day. This includes yourself. As christians, the bible is very clear
“1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
If you disagree with the bible then say it. Stop insulting those who do. Just as you want the right to live your lifestyle, christians want the right to practice their faith as it is written. Can you promise anyone salvation based on your opinion? Do christians have the right to exists? Muslims? Jews? I don’t claim to have all knowledge and wisdom as you do. I was simply raised a christian and choose to remain so.
Way to avoid my question My Sista. I figured that’s the direction you would go. I didn’t ask anything about friendship. I’m asking at what age were you in your sexuality attraction when you chose to no longer be sexually attracted to women, and CHOSE to be attracted to men?
It’s a simple answer. I mean if homosexuality is a “choice” according to YOU, then ergo heterosexuality has to also be a “chocie”. Now to have a “choice” you have to have more than one thing to “choose” from. So, one would have to go with your logic that homosexuality is a choice…at what age did you “CHOOSE” to be heterosexual. In order for that to be a “choice” you had to “choose” from something. I guess you could throw bisexuality in there, if you’re not comfortable with TWO “choices” – for your sake will make it THREE “choices”.
But with your logic and analogy of which you have no facts or links to back up your hypothesis from….you too, had to make a “CHOICE” so how old were you when you made your sexuality attraction “choice” from homosexuality to heterosexuality?
@Cal guy,
Looks like I struck a nerve…
****MIkeFuzz wrote:
What government was in Ohio before the Moravians…?
Well let’s see…the Ohio nation and many Non-Christian Native American people lived in Ohio before your precious Christians came. These natives had lived there for thousands of years building cities and practicing their own form of religion and government predating your Moravian Schoenbrunn village.
You are more moronic than I ever thought Shane****
WHAT?? THEY built cities? What were they called? The Cleveland Indians?
Got news for you. There was nothing but STARVING Indians in Ohio before the Moravians.
Go ahead, find me a ancient Indian City in Ohio before the Moravians! Bwwaaahhaaaa
I guarantee you one thing, there was NO cornholing.
Now, as to whatcauses a person to be a homosexual?
It is *DEVELOPED* due to a disconnect with one of the parents, generally of the same gender!
So Cal guy, first of all that scripture you quoted, doesn’t that pretty much include EVERYONE? That doesn’t leave anyone for inheriting the kingdom of God as you put it.
Also, if we’re going to pick and choose scriptures to live and go by, to believe in.
Why are you leaving out scripture that says eating of shell fish is also an abomination as it says about homosexuality?
Why are you leaving out about women who commit adultery should be stoned to death? Are you saying we should go back to stoning to death our women who commit adultery?
What about women should be subserviant to their husbands? The Bible also condoned slavery…so when do you want to bring that proposition forward to reinstate slavery in the United States?
Wasn’t inter racial marriage banned in the United States based on Religion and scripture? Should we not then go back to banning inter racial marriage?
You see Cal guy, you can’t just pick and choose your scripture to live by. If Jesus were alive today, many think he would be a liberal and be for equality for all! How sad that those who proclaim to be “christian” never seem to live by the 10 commandments but in acutality live by the opposite of some of those commandments.
In closing have you ever stopped to notice how many more times the Bible condemns Adultery and Divorce than it does homosexuality? Interesting that that never seems to be brought up.
You might also be interested, since you are so interested in YOUR Bible, to do some research and learn the true interpretation of the first writing of scriptures. The scriptures you’re going by, are so recent in reality and man written of not that long ago.
Shane, please post your findings for “what causes a person to be homosexual”. You can’t even get psychiatrists, medical doctors, biologists or any scientist to back up that archaic analogy.
Thank you for the laugh though. I do appreciate it.
MGS _ Huh? Did you answer the question? I didn’t notice. No you didn’t strike a nerve. Your assumption is that all of human civilization and every major religion has been wrong and you are correct. No MGS I don’t fear that you hold my salvation. neither does anyone else. That’s cocky.
Dan, recent research has indicated that a parental disconnect does INDEED cause one to become a homosexual. In the male, it is the result of lack of affirmation coming from the Father.
And BTW, this is NOT rejected by MOST of the g*a*y* community!
The homosexual condition is a ***developed one***, not a born one.
So the question should be…Why should a developed behavior be codified into law?
To cornhole or NOT cornhole…THAT is the question!
Shane. Good God you are so delusional. You almost come across as a closeted cry for help. In fact you really need to seek counciling. Again, I ask for your links to back up your facts. You can’t produce any. And you even saying; “And BTW, this is NOT rejected by MOST of the g*a*y* community!
The homosexual condition is a ***developed one***, not a born one.”
is such a fraudulent claim.
You truly are demonstrating your insecurity in your own sexual behavior and identity. The simple fact that your last line in your posting is such a vile one, shows you are truly a homophobic and I would venture to go so far as saying your own sexual identity is so closeted. You want something to blame your own closeted attraction to the same *** on, that you make up this insane, and inane analogy just to cover your own guilt. You don’t need to feel guilty for being attracted to the same *** Shane. It’s not your fault nor your parents fault, nor your upbringing. We are all created in the likeness of God. It’s ok to accept your true self.
As soon as you can present true accounted facts for your analogy….fine, but you won’t find them anywhere, because they simply don’t exist!
Jason – I’m not using the scripture to bash anyone. That’s not what it is for. Hopefully, it gives you an understanding of where christians are coming from. You referenced old testament law. Christians are no longer under law but under grace. The bible does not condone slavery. Those in the bible were basically indentured servants. No there’s no ban on interracial marriage in the bible. The warning not to intermarry was for the Jews not to intermarry with those who worshiped pagan gods. Show me a scripture that explicitly condones same gender relationships. I have not found one. Look, God gives us free election. You can choose to believe in his word or not. All life is about choices. I chose to marry. I chose to have kids. Some choose to not marry. Some choose to not have kids or even remain celibate. My opinion does not mean squat. Your opinion does not mean squat. Polls show that the more you read the bible and attend bible study the more opposed to same gender relations you are. I dont doubt that some have attractions toward the same gender. There are married men who still find other women attractive. They simply choose to be faithful to the wives and to God. Some don’t and I’ve never seen an adulterers pride parade. As an earlier blog alluded to, it might be more helpful if pride parades didn’t have guys dressed in tutus and thongs.
Shane corn hole is two words MS Word has spell check use it you are embarassing yourself.
Look, I told you already that homosexuals have dsconnects with their parent of the same gender. I see it again and again. The research is showing it and their own admissions verify it!
And then the homosexuals develop into a homosexual at an early age, at a critical point. And then later they make alternate lifestyle choices and choose partners. Then comes the cornholing!
@Calguy – you said; “Polls show that the more you read the bible and attend bible study the more opposed to same gender relations you are.” I take it these polls are just in those churches who won’t or don’t accept homosexuality. There are more and more progressive churches coming into the 21st century and who don’t seem to back up your “poll results”. Could you please list your poll links to back up that claim.
And if “christians” are living “under grace” now instead of “under law” and only going according to “the New Testament” – Then why don’t they just print Bibles with just the New Testament? Just curious? If they’re not going to follow early scriptures then why not save money and only print up that which they intend to follow and dictate to the World what everyone should follow?
So in other words Shane. You got nothing to back up your homphobic and bigoted beliefs.
There are no research facts to back that claim up and “their own claims” don’t exist. Never have, never will.
Again, I say you must be speaking from your own broken family experience and need to blame your closeted same *** attraction on.
Seek help Shane. Seek help.
Cal guy that is not true what you said about going to church and apposing same gender marriage; what studies do show is that the less educated you are the more likely you would be homophobic and anti gay and oppose same gender marriage. Only in Fundamentalist Christian churches does what you say hold true.
Studies also show Cal Guy that a person’s acceptance of same gender rights is also affected by whether or not the person has LGBT friends and family members.
Also the older you are the less likely you would support same gender marriage and gay rights.
In fact percentage wise in those under 35 as many more support same gender love and marriage as those over 65 oppose it. As the folks at the top die off the numbers trend in our favor.
In fact in recent polls 53% of people oppose same gender marriage across the country a 47% support it or have no serious objection to it…..hardly a strong majority for your side CAL Guy.
Those numbers closely resemble the numbers that in the 1940’s on desegregation of the military, in the 1950’s on desegregation of the schools and in the 1960’s those who opposed civil and voting rights for African Americans. In fact the main opposition to all of these advances in social justice was the Christian Fundamentalist movement.
Sorry your arguments don’t hold water. This is not a religious blog so again using scripture to prove our point is irrelevant to me and my Creator…I hope you took a few minutes to read my sermon up thread.
Shane are you a doctor or a psycologist or even an anthropologist?
Ah, fuzzybear, I think I’m in love! Thank you for that, from the bottom of my heart thank you!
Shane Corn Holing is two words are you to stupid to use MS Word spell check?
Dan I love your post to and just to piss of shane I am single and living in florida…
Check out the 1st chapter of Romans in the King James Version and pay special attention to verses 18 through 25 where we are told why certain people are homosexuals. In verses 26 through 28 God speaks of such “affections” as being vile, against nature, unnatural, unseemly and an error on their part. Verses 28 through 32 reveals what will happen to homosexuals if they do not repent and receive salvation through Jesus Christ. If a person truly wants to change, they can have their slate wiped clean and have a brand new life through faith in Jesus Christ.
shane you can go to xtube.com and watch corn holing all day if he is so interested…and over 18 years old! Shane I would suggest giving your hand a rest every 30 minutes or so to avoid carpal tunnel!
Sassy St Paul was a homosexual himself and hated women, also, its quite probable he wrote very few of the letters that were attributed to him. He or the writer calling himself Paul actually talks about his “sin” in which he fell three times…and his description of the young nubile (male) Olympians he saw in his Corinth in his letters is almost p*rnographic!
Sassy I know my Bible and the concept of homosexuality as we know it today did not exist then. Paul was commenting on temple prostitutes selling their souls, actually prostituting themselves selling their bodies, to the pagan goddess Venus/Aphrodite.
You are quite naive to be battling with a armed mind.
Dan – here’s a gallup report http://www.gallup.com/video/118889/Republicans-Weekly-Church-Goers-Anti-Gay-Marriage.aspx
@Dan:
I answered your question. It was twelve years old. If your whole point was to gage whether or not I thought choice applied to both hetro and homosexuals, you should have just asked that plainly, instead of trying to incinuate that I once had some sexual attraction to women.
The answer is yes, all sexuality is a matter of choice stemming from learned behavior.
Dan, you do not understand what love is. You are confusing love with “lust”.
If you and Mike get married there is NO WAY to Biblically consumate that marriage.
In the Bible marriages were consumated by the breaking of the hymen, thus cementing a “blood Covenant” between a man/woman.
There is NO hymen in a cornhole. Sorry, there just isn’t.
So some writers on this page have declared, LGBTs as brats and unwilling to listen to reason.
Would you prefer we GLBTs were bitten by dogs, knocked down by fire hoses, and billy-clubed by uniformed homo-haters? I have nothing but admiration for those who put their lives on the line in support of racial equality. But they, too, tried the talking and negotiating way of civilized people. However, power never gives away anything of substance without a fight.
If the sterotype of GLBTs is one of being limp-writsted and weak, why are so many hteros afriad of us? Are they afriad of something in themselves?
Hey, I am not afraid on anything. The g*a*yS are exhibiting a whole lot of heterophobia here.
I mean, for goodness sakes, how about just throwing heteros over a bridge?
the black attorney general has parents from the barbados. barbado’s/caribbean blacks are among the MOST homophoboic of all of the black clultures; all of which are way more homophobic than most other cultures. this, despite their own previous struggles with achievin g equal rights. i am completely convinved that holder is mandating that his people argue precisely as they have for the reasons i mention. period. he’s the same idiot who claimed that whites only socialize with whites. the same is and always will be true for ALL cultures. so what? if anyone here ith a smart remark about **** doesn’t want **** top have EQUAL rights, TODAY, then give us our damn tax money back. we’ve been supporting your illegitimate children, welfrare queens, multiply married/divorced, constant hurricane/earthquake/flooded victims’ a++ es for decades. the same decades that we’ve been waiting for our equal rights.
My dear michael/fuzzybeargville,
What kind of a bible are you reading and quoting from? Or are you simply reading your own interpretation into God’s Word? Whatever the case, honey, I feel extremely bad for you and those who believe and follow the same as what you believe, preach and practice. May God have mercy on your soul.
Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and the light of all men. He has paid the price in full for your sins, but you do have to acknowledge and confess your sins and put your trust fully in Him to lift you out of the mire.
1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
Act 2:38 “…Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
god, you “christians” are truly, truly psychotic……clinically, truly, psychotic. any normal person reading your bizarre “religious” rants can see it. i, as a health care provider would treat you with anti-psychotic medications to stabilize your craziness. give it up. if you spent the tiniest measurable amount of time worrying, writing about your own “sins”, the world would, mercifully, never have to hear from you. meanwhile, gay people exist, have always existed, will always exist, and WILL SOON FINALLY have our EQUAL rights. just keep on ranting your religiously pysichotic rants, we WILL have our rights.
I THINK BARRY O HAS BEEN “SITTING DOWN” WITH THE GAY FOLKS A LOT IN THE PAST…WAY DOWN.
TOO MUCH HATE ON THIS FORUM. ME, I JUST HATE GETTING LIPSTICK ON MY JOHNSON FROM QUEENS.
dear michael/fuzzybeargville,
When I suggested reading Romans chapter 1 in the Bible, you answered by saying, “…the concept of homosexuality as we know it today did not exist then. Paul was commenting on temple prostitutes selling their souls, actually prostituting themselves selling their bodies, to the pagan goddess Venus/Aphrodite.”
How in the world do you get that from the scripture I referred to, or for that matter, anywhere in the Bible? Here is what I was referring to in Romans, AS IT IS WRITTEN, which clearly refers to homosexuals, men burning in their lust towards one another.
Romans 1:26, 27, 28 “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;”
Sorry Sassy, your Bible is FICTION written by men who thought they heard voices. Who believed that a man lived to 900 years old, who believed a man built an ark and put millions of species of animals aboard such an ark – male and female. Who believed only what their psychotic minds led them to believe. Sorry I don’t believe MY GOD discriminate or even condone the way you “so called Christian Fundamentalist” discriminate. You are all the biggest bunch of Hypocrites to draw breath on the face of this earth.
FC, I don’t know what you speak of. I am about as normal as they come.
Do you think I actually like to bring up the CornHole word? That word exists in the dark corridors of the godless and lustful.
Think about it.
“ComHole”? if this word can relate to one of three body orifices, each of which, including the one from behind is used by STRAIGHT psychotic “chrisitians” more than the very of _G@ay people that exist within the united states on a daily basis. since you reference it so readily, we’ll obviously add you to that tally of straight “christians” whose “comhole” is regularly used by all comers.
Hello fc,
If the subject of this thread was about excessive drinking, doing illegal drugs, fornication, adultery, gluttony, slothfulness, smoking, or any other “sin,” then I and other Christians would be preaching against those things, because they are also sin, according to God’s Word. Any kind of *** outside of marriage is sin, and there are Christians who fall along the way, and are every bit as guilty of sin as what homosexuals are. It isn’t as though we (or at least I) am accusing anyone of being more sinful than another, as it is written, “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)
What bothers me about homosexuals is their efforts to try justifying their sin, refusing to acknowledge it as the sin that it is and trying to force Christians and all of society into accepting their lifestyle as being “normal” which it is not and never will be.
That is no different than a drug addict or alcoholic trying to justify their lifestyle and demanding our government pass laws to allow them to indulge openly and freely. The same being true for extramarital affairs, if using the logic of homosexuals, men and women should be able to have as many marriage partners as they want, as long as all are consenting adults.
If we have to coddle the homosexuals and pretend their lifestyle is fine and dandy and sinless, then the same would have to hold true for all other types of lifestyles, including the drug addicts. After all, it’s their body, so whose business is it but their own if they want to “drug it up?”
What a wonderful world this would be if we just let everyone “do their own thing” and let our children and grandchildren be taught by example that it is okay to be alcoholics, drug addicts, homosexuals, or married to a dozen people at once. The only requirement for any of our actions is that we are consenting adults.
Sin is sin is sin and will forever be sin as homosexuality is sin. Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
FC. CornHoling can only be attributed to the g*a*y community in general. Why?
Because it is the one that is spreading diseases upon the precious masses.
Shane, you do realize that the highest new infection rate of HIV, Hep C, and STD’s is heterosexual women of color, right? That is in deed a fact! Women of color age 14 – 25 in fact! So, until you’re including yourself in those statistics of “spreading diseases” – you might want to refrain from such rediculous remarks.
Here’s my comment, question and concern. I’m a young, black (and educated) male. I have no disdain for homosexuals AT ALL…your life is your’s to live. But here’s where my question comes in, granted I know Obama & Admin have made some promises to the LG Community, but why is everyone up in arms about this now? Where was this much protest and controversy during the Bush years??? But everyone know Bush Admin BARELY recognized your plight and this wasn’t even something remotely on their radar.
My concern comes in with the blatant selfishness being displayed by the LG community. I don’t know if anyone notice that during the first 5 months of his presidency, the number of states have gone from 1 to 6 that allow same *** marriages. With the economy in arrears, nearly 1 out 10 people out of work, health care in crisis…should same *** marriage REALLY the main thing on his agenda right now? Its not that he probably doesn’t have a solutions, but is like anything else, he has to call in favors one at a time.
My comment is this, instead of everyone on here taking personal shots at each other’s race, heritage and sexuality we need to step back and assess our individual situations. Your girlfriend, boyfriend, husband and partner is still yours no matter what the gov’t or church says. I understand its a matter of health care and other benefits for some, but let’s get back on our feet first. Because what happens is this, when people (all colors) see the backlash from the LG community about the DOMA situation, it makes regular people less sympathetic to the LG cause and plight and actually want to vote against.
Not all Blacks are homophobic..that’s as dumb as saying all White are racist…S*H*I*T is real right now people..let’s stay focused and come out of this together (i can’t believe i just wrote all this..lol)
peace & love and to ALL…Only God can judge YOU!
Wow. Those who think the gay community is being “bratty” forget that there is a whole group far larger than the gay community who is in support of equality for all. They are the minority. Of them who push for equality for all, we are the majority. In time, our majority will grow as other non-gay people grow up into adults who don’t have a problem with it. Pretty self absorbed to have all the civil rights and want to keep them for yourself. Deny them to others, call them bratty when they demand the same. You probably think the Iranians are bratty for wanting their freedom of a counted vote, too.
“What bothers me about homosexuals is their efforts to try justifying their sin, refusing to acknowledge it as the sin that it is and trying to force Christians and all of society into accepting their lifestyle as being “normal” which it is not and never will be.”
In response to this? Behind every “good book” is a good war, and a lot of judgmental hate. The bible, Koran and anything religious teaches people to dehumanize other human beings, even kill them. Religion is oppressive by its very nature, and you drove that point home. Without it, wars would be far fewer, and people would be less justified to denying other humans. Religion is the root of all evil. It quenches a thirst for power and to put oneself above another. The bible teaches to diminish blacks, women, and the gay community. It teaches hate. You sat awfully high on your throne when you wrote that. You are who I use to be, until I saw the cruelty religion teaches to have against our neighbors. There are laws that protect women from men that act like your God of jealousy, promotion of hate and killing of anyone who acts on their free will if it is different. There is nothing loving about him, or your words of God.
“There are 362 admonishments in the Bible for heterosexuals. There are only 6 for homosexuals. That doesn’t mean that Gd doesn’t love heterosexuals as much as homosexuals, only that they need more supervision.”
Who would Jesus hate? The man had long hair, hung out with those who thumbed their noses at the politicos in power, kept kosher, and dined with prostitutes. Congratulations conservative Christians, you have become the heretical Pharisees whom Jesus taught his followers to avoid.
The only thing the bible speaks against regarding homosexuality is sodomy (anal rape, not *** between consenting adults) and “going against one’s nature.” And the sin of Sodom was of gross inhospitality- a sin just as despicable in today’s Middle East, as it was back then. The men were rude and demanding and would not allow the visitors any peace. Aside from that, they demanded the visitors be turned over so that they could violate them…not date or marry or love for all time. Obviously straight or gay, this is wrong. But the main message of Sodom and Gomorrah was that one should always be hospitable to strangers and visitors. The “homosexuality” lesson only came about in the last century.
After studying Ancient Greek, I can say without a doubt in my mind that there is no word for homosexuality in the Biblical or Ancient Greek. The concept did not exist. The word “homosexuals” in the alleged Romans passage was not a part of the original passage and was ADDED to the King James Version around the late 1800s to early 1900s. Soon, other versions followed suit. It is not in the original unaltered Greek text.
Nature is not immutable or one set thing. People don’t only come in one color or one ***. Binary dichotomies simply do not hold water when it comes to the diverse nature of the human race. Some people’s nature is homosexuality, for others heterosexuality, and still others asexuality or bisexuality. Some are meant for monogamy, others for polyamory, and still others for celibacy. Some are normatively gendered, others (like eunuchs in the bible) are transgender or intersexed or transsexual. Nature abhors normality.
*The concept did not exist as we know it today. Greeks did engage in homosexual *** and relationships, but it did not really have its own classification or specialized term. In any case, homsoexuality or any word equatable was NOT in the original Greek New Testament.
@michael/fuzzybeargville ,
the only reason I keep posting to you is that somebody must educate you and tell you to get over yourself.
First, Leviticus, is still law of the land, as long as we have freedom of religion to believe such things are immoral as homosexuality.
Second, as it is told from a religious point of view, Jesus Christ died for the sins initially commited by the world or “in error”.
In addition, his death for the world and sinners for forgiveneww is only if you accept him into your life to do the will of G_OD, which would mean you living the principles and ways in which god sees fit- not what g*a*ys or people see fit and want to do.
So, please, Mr. michael/fuzzybeargville, why don’t you stop cherry picking excused to make a point for your abnormal sexual preference.
Jesus Christ teachings are clear, you are only forgiven and entitled to enter the kingdom of Heaven, but through him and through repentence.
Do you know what repentence is or what it mean? Stop showing us your IQ, Mr. michael/fuzzybeargville !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Dan,
Dan I think mysista anwsered you question the first time. She said, at 12 yrs old and she supported her position by saying she had not learned to project her taught and inform attraction of boys because at the early ages she didn’t sexually identify with either gender, everyone was a friend.
How smart do you have to be to understand that?
Also, let me shed some light for your education. There is no genetic marker for CHOICE or choosing- it’s an ability not a gene. CHOICE IS A COGNITIVE ACTION, and has nothing to do with something that someone is.
Need an example. At a crossway in traffic, WTH does the choice of having to go either straight, left, or right have to do a person identity.
A decision or choice is a mental and cognitive process based on a purpose we wish to pursue.
Geeeeeez, people are really showing their IQ up in here on this thread.
It doesn’t make sense….if your “anonymous” screen name doesn’t say it all. Your logic is flawed to the max! In all of your posts you try to attack people’s intelligence with your nonsense and if you aren’t the epitome of a “Fundamentalist Christian” or as the entire world is discovering another name would be “Domestic Terroris”. Ordering the World to believe in your flawed analogies with no facts or research to even substantiate one iota of information.
You know, if you’d post your real name, you’d be making a step in the “right” direction, but since you hide behind Freudian misnomber of Itdoesn’tmakesense….well, it says so much. Have you thought of upping your meds?
@itdoesn’tmakesense
I’m sure you have documented analyses on “choice” to back up your hypothesis? No? I didn’t think so! I mean “how smart do you have to be” to know that when you give such a flawed analysis as yours, you better have plenty of documentation to back it up!
If anything “itdoesn’tmakesense” you are pathetic!
I’d like to add a link to a very interesting article. This is titled; “1500 animal species practice homosexuality”.
Now if you’re going to believe your Bible and all of its scriptures, and you continue to think that homosexuality is a “choice”, then how do you explain 1500 species of animals that practice homosexuality?
Surely you’re not going to try and link it their “family upbringing”, father or mother “not present” in rearing their offspring!
If this occurs in the animal kingdom, then it only goes to show, that it is normal in the homosapien kingdom!
These are animals created by a Supreme Being in the likeness of the Supreme Being, just as is true for homosapiens.
Are you going to start propositions to take rights away from homosexual animals while allowing those same rights for heterosexual animals?
You know, the day will come when we will all look back on this the same way we do now about inter racial marriages, the same way we do about minorities being allowed to vote, women being allowed to vote….it is inevitable that it will eventually happen. When are we as a society going to finally accept each other for the soul that is deep down inside of each person, and stop this insanity of trying to control what everybody does, thinks, or how they act? If they’re not doing anything that affects you personally in a detrimental manner – then why is it your business to want to “CONTROL” them?
It would be so wonderful if these people that consider themselves “christians” would actually act like a cristian, this world would be more successful, financially stable, a more postive place to live, and people could once again be proud of America, Land of the Free!
People, life is too short, to not start to CHANGE American NOW! Isn’t that the whole premise of what we voted this man in as President on, was CHANGE???
Here’s the link for “1500 animal species practice homosexuality”
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx
Sharon, As I mentioned earlier on this thread, I have close friends and family who are homosexual, and some bi-sexual, and I love them dearly. I treat them with every bit as much respect as I do my “straight” family members and friends. However, I will not pretend to them, or to anyone that I condone their lifestyle. The same holding true for my convictions concerning other issues in life.
As a Christian, we are instructed in the Word of God to “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all 3956 longsuffering and doctrine.” (2Timothy 4:2) Therefore, we are acting like Christians by speaking out against such things that God clearly lists as sin in His Word, of which homosexuality is.
Believe on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and you shall be saved, and your family.
By the way, I did not vote for him.
@Dan,
Have you decided to up your Meds. Since disagreeing with a point of view makes you require medication, crazy, and stupid. Your should go pick up your life time supply of meds for stupidity. Why in the heil would a simple topic like CHOICE need a documented report to explain.
Not only do you need meds, you need a whole new round of schooling.
@Sharon, same goes for you. And please stop referencing the stupid animal report on homosexuality. It has no relevence or credibility in comparing man’s ability to be rational on morality or moral issues and decisions which discerns and determines what is right and what is wrong.
Until, we are able to speak the language of animals, and be able to ask them whether they know the different between same-*** animal; you or the world cannot say they are homosexual or acting out homosexuality until we can say that it is not an innate actions and they know the difference of between male and female animals.
If we believe that their brain functions and capabilities are not equal to human. Then we must believe that they are acting on innate impulses such as terms called in “heat” and not on a consciencious decision to be gay or chose the same-*** animal they are showing sexual like behavior towards.
More simply put, animals cannot determine morality-right or wrong unless conditioned to do so. They are mostly acting on innate behaviors toward another animal that happens to be the same-***.
You g*a*y people are morons. And Sharon and dan, I feel sorry you all if you need a scientific report to understand what a CHOICE is and how it is derived. This is, and you all are, a sad situation !!!!!!!
@itdoesn’tmakesense
For you the “Burden of Proof” lies in your hand. You can’t just present “your” opinion on choice and expect people to accept it.
You would be laughed right out of court if you tried to argue that point in front of a judge.
One thing that doesn’t need “burden of proof” is the fact that you fit the definition of a true “bigot”. Don’t you have a meeting you’re late for with your clean white hood?
Somewhere itdoesn’tmakesense is searching for their next Shwastika!
If you think 265 discharges from our military services under DADT since January 20th is a total disgrace (see message reproduced below), tell a friend about it. I told my friend Barak about it via his website — http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
I suggest that you all do likewise and ask all your contacts to do likewise. If 500,000 of us do it, maybe my friend Barak will take heed. If you have friends in the Washington DC area, please let them know about the march that Servicemembers Legal Defense Network will conduct this coming Saturday.
Lee Coleman
From Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
As of this week, an estimated 265 service members will have lost their jobs under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” since January 20.
That’s when President Obama and the new Congress came to town promising change — change they’ve failed to deliver, certainly with respect to repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”
Every day they wait to act, another service member is fired simply because of his or her sexual orientation.
We’re marching to the White House this Saturday to call on President Obama to show leadership on “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” Even though you’re not near Washington, you can join this effort by telling your friends why 265 is disgraceful — and why we’ve got to end “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”:
http://www.sldn.org/265IsDisgraceful
Like those who drew a line in the sand 40 years ago at the Stonewall Inn in New York City, we’re standing up to demand action. It’s past time for these discriminatory discharges to end.
After 16 years of this nonsensical law, it’s critical that President Obama and Congress act to kill “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”
Together, marching, we have a real opportunity to deliver a powerful message to the White House, to Congress, and to the American people — and to let our service members know they have not been forgotten.
Tell a friend now why 265 is disgraceful:
http://www.sldn.org/265IsDisgraceful
Thank you so much for your continued support.
Sincerely,
Ben Mishkin
Grassroots Organizer
Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
P.S. On Facebook? Spread the word about Saturday’s event to friends who are in the Washington area:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=109860618827
To Destiny:
What a foolish post. We don’t hate Obama. In fact, we spent millions helping him get elected, voted for him by the tens of millions and worked hard to get him elected.
If he put us off, well, that would get us discouraged.
But if he works -against- us, then we get seriously pissed, as is our right.
For example: 255 valuable military personnel dismissed from the Armed Forces, so far, during his Administration and he won’t lift a finger – despite declaring that he will repeal Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. You or I might have all the time in the world to wait but what about Daniel Choi’s and 254 others’ careers that got flushed down the toilet while he dithers.
And, despite the fact that, as recently as last week, Obama declared DOMA to be discrimination and promising to repeal it, his Justice Department argues vehemently in defense of that heinous act in Federal Court – all the while insulting the hell out of gay couples by comparing their marriages to incest and pedophilia.
This is not just being tardy. This is damaging us. This is throwing us under the bus. This is as bad as Bush.
Therefore we’re pissed. Seriously pissed. Rightfully!
@Anita,
kettle calling the pot black. you have an identity crisis- not me. And no I should have a hard time defending my statement. Common sense doesn’t need defending.
Also, why don’t you all stop relying on the racist g*a*y internet hackers following my posts, invading the privacy of my home, and posting under different names for your material and putting words in your mouths.
Your palling around with these kind of people and using their tactics and thoughts makes you one of them more than it makes me.
I disagree with things that are immoral. Because I disagree with this(homosexuality) makes me no more a “Bigot” than when I disagree with “Pedophilia” !!
Smart people would know this; therefore, I am through trying to convince morons and imbecile of what common sense or CHOICE is.
Also, tell your local racist internet cop friends to take their badges off and stay out of the privacy of my home- maybe some of them are the ones you are thinking when you say clean white hoods and meetings.
Don’t call me a bigot because I don’t support un-natural and immoral things. It makes you look dumb when you essentially are calling yourself a “Bigot” also when you don’t agree or accept wrongful things.
Now, Anita, Dan, Sharon, go get educated somewhere and stop palling around with the real internet and world racist people.
The you are crazy because you disagree thing doesn’t work in intellectual debates that involves true intellectuals. Obvious, you guys missed the “get a brain and common sense” meeting when they were being given to you.
@Anita, Sharon, and Dan,
……………………Correction to last post……………….
Meant to say:
“Obvious, you guys missed the “get a brain and common sense” meeting when they were being given out by your lineage and genetics.”
itdoesn’tmakesense says: “Also, tell your local racist internet cop friends to take their badges off and stay out of the privacy of my home”
ROTFLMAO! My goodness, aren’t you paranoid!
If you could only see the hypocrisy that lies within all of your posts!
@sassy, I have close friends and family who are black, but I know that their existence is sinful. I pray every day that the Lord may have mercy on them for being black and that they will choose to walk the white path instead, because I don’t want to see them in hell. I know it is all a part of God’s plan though, and we cannot begin to comprehend the finished picture from the details.
@Itdoesn’tmakeSense
I’ll tell you what doesn’t make sense: Your grammer. You need to go back to grade school.
@Well,If that’s the case:
You said:
“I have close friends and family who are black, but I know that their existence is sinful. I pray every day that the Lord may have mercy on them for being black and that they will choose to walk the white path instead, because I don’t want to see them in hell.”
THE BIBLE SAYS:
Act 17:26 “And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation”
Here is the root word translations for that scripture:
And g5037 τέ te
hath made g4160 ποιέω poieō
of g1537 ἐκ ek
one g1520 εἷς heis
blood g129 αἷμα haima
all g3956 πᾶς pas
nations g1484 ἔθνος ethnos
of men g444 ἄνθρωπος anthrōpos
for to dwell g2730 κατοικέω katoikeō
on g1909 ἐπί epi
all g3956 πᾶς pas
the face g4383 πρόσωπον prosōpon
of the earth, g1093 γῆ gē
and hath determined g3724 ὁρίζω horizō
the times g2540 καιρός kairos
before appointed, g4384 προτάσσω protassō
and g2532 καί kai
the bounds g3734 ὁροθεσία horothesia
of their g846 αὐτός autos
habitation; g2733 κατοικία katoikia
—————————————————
I say:
Pay particular attention to the word translated as NATIONS in this verse, and notice that it comes from the Greek word ETHNOS, which is where we get our english work ETHNICITY from. This scripture is GOD HIMSELF establishing the fact that not only did he create all mankind, but HE specificially made them of different races. Ethnicity is an absolute act and function of God’s will, desire, and design. This scripture has nothing what so ever to do with homosexuality because it’s not a race or ethnic group. You will not find such an affirmation of homosexuality ANYWHERE in the bible.
So you error greatly when you use that ridiculous example(even if only in jest)of a blasphemous prayer, and you have no audience with God when you speak ignorantly of HIS word.
I will leave you with this advice:
Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
Ooooooh. MySista don’t like havin’ her own bigotry thrown back her face! There are many interpretations of the Bible, a book thought to be written by men who wanted control. Much in the same way Fundamentalist Christians wish to control the World. Their way is the only way. Interesting to see how offended you became when it was thrown back in your own face.
And you might want to check out today’s breaking news from the CDC in Atlanta. Find out where and who is involved in the HIGHEST infection rate of HIV now in the United States. Find out WHAT communities, in WHAT locations.
You might just be able to learn something from the GAY community, if you just remove that BIGOTED chip off your FUNDAMENTALIST shoulder.
Learn true acceptance and then and only then can you claim yourself a TRUE Christian. Remember WWJD!
@Jus’ Sayin:
Bigotry has nothing to do with it. Just pointing out the error or making such a biblical comparison between race(ethnicity) and sexuality. The bible CLEARLY affirms my blackness as the handy work of God Himself. Not so for homosexuality, no matter how many scriptures you search. There is not one scripture that comes even remotely close to suggesting such affirmation for homosexuality.
There is nothing the gay community can teach me until they FIRST learn to understand and accept God’s purpose for their lives. As long as they continue to try and twist it to suit their own pleasures, they have no audience with me. The creaTION does not know more than the creaTOR.
As far as bigotry is concerned, the gay community wouldn’t know a thing about it. They simply call anyone who won’t accept or agree with their lifestyle a bigot even though sexuality is not an immutable characteristic like race. Bigotry applies to immutable characteristics, not sexual preferences.
You said:”Learn true acceptance and then and only then can you claim yourself a TRUE Christian.”
I say: Here is another biblical lesson for you:
I don’t have to speculate about what would Jesus do, because I can find out EXACTLY what He would do by studying His example in scriptures. So let’s SEE and not guess what Jesus would do when accepting someone. Here’s an example of HIS acceptance:
Jhn 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
—end-of-verse———-
Notice that after Jesus told her that He would not condemn her, He gave her instructions using five words(go, and sin no more)which convey three very important things:
1.go – as in, you are forgiven and accepted
2.and sin – as in what you did was wrong and sinful
3.no more – as in repent and turn away from sinful actions.
So you see, when Jesus forgives and accepts, he STILL calls sin out for what it is, and then requires repentance from that sin.
Now, that said, I hardly think YOU should be using the expression WWJD, because in most cases, you would not like what HE DID.
Now run along, will ya.
MySista – you are a true bigot and hypocrite. You wouldn’t know how to live as a Christian if Jesus walked up to you, himself and took you by the hand.
One day mysista you will wake up to the REAL world and learn that if you were to live by the 10 Commandments alone, you would be the epitome of a TRUE CHRISTIAN! Until then you’re a nutjob, right wing, fundamentalist, domestic terrorist, evangelical!
@Jus’ Sayin:
As I stated in my previous post, I am a card carrying democrat and have been so for the past 30 years. Contrary to the LGBT community’s assertion, your lifestyle does not only offend those on the right. As you continue to push your envelope, you will begin to see just how many on the left have had it up to their eyeballs with your attempts to perpetrate a fraud on the world. Don’t be fooled, those were hardly all right wingers that voted in California.
YOU wouldn’t know a true Christian if Jesus Christ Himself walked up to you, because He would tell you the same thing that He told the woman caught in adultery, and you in turn would call Him a bigot, like you are doing to me for simply pointing out HIS example to you. A true Christian takes heed, and does not ignore Jesus Christ’s admonishments.
MySista, did you happen to see the latest stastics from the CDC out of Atlanta today on HIV infection? Did you see what community it’s hitting the hardest in with Full Blown AIDS now? MySista, it’s not the gay community, it’s not the wealthy communities, it’s definitely NOT the white communities. MySista, it is OUR community. It is in the SOUTH and the African American minority communities that it is now hitting. Why do you think that is MySista. Do you think it’s God’s reward for carrying on with these archaic bigoted ideals? Having these types of beliefs that you are holding on to, are KILLING OUR PEOPLE! Why can’t you see that? It’s not the gay community that is dying from AIDS anymore, it’s OUR community MySista, instead of being on your soapbox pulpit preaching hate and bigotry and playing God in determining what you think GOD’s word is, you need a wake up call girl! You need to wake up to reality and see what your exact type of thinking and preaching is doing to our community.
The way I interpret what Just sayin’ means by learn something from the gay community, is stop your judging, My God is that not one main thing that was stated in the day of our Lord; “Judge not, lest ye be judged”. How much more clearer can that be?
Stop MySista, I’m begging you. Quit being part of the problem, and start being part of the solution! AIDS is killing OUR people now! Doesn’t that mean anything to you? Our fellow women of color are the new HIGHEST infection rate of HIV/AIDS – WAKE UP WOMAN! Stop your preaching of hate and bigotry. Yes, it’s HATE and BIGOTRY hidden behind the name of Jesus. If you believe at all in the Lord Jesus Christ, then this you will eventually find out, The Lord Does Move in Mysterious Ways, and My Sista, you are working up some serious karma to come back at you in a way that I would not want to be on the receiving end of.
If anything Jesus preached and taught LOVE & ACCEPTANCE, not judgement which you seem to be so full of.
Please, as a fellow African American woman, stop the hate and bigotry now. Learn acceptance, and we need to work together to figure out how to keep our community from being the new highest rate of HIV/AIDS.
There is a reason it’s OUR community now, what do you think that is? It’s because we don’t seem to learn from history, and that what didn’t work for us in the past, is still not going to work for us in the future.
Stop it My Sista, you do not speak for my God, you are no better than a Grand Wizard in the KKK with your hatefilled preaching!
@Shanitra:
It is amazing to me how the LGBT community is so quick to cite those statistics as if it somehow clears them. You asked: “Why do you think that is MySista.” I answer: Yes, I do know why that is. It is being delivered to African American Females LARGELY due to the black men incarcerated in the prison system who are engaging in all manner of homosexual activity and then coming out and living on the DL and infecting black women at alarming rates. So no matter how you slice it, the root cause points right back to homosexual activity.
As for your diatribe on Jesus’ acceptance, did you not read my previous post to Jus’ saying? Obviously not, because I gave a CLEAR example of Jesus’ acceptance, and it is not dumbded down like you all often assert. Here it is again, since you obviously missed it:
I say: Here is another biblical lesson for you: I don’t have to speculate about what would Jesus do, because I can find out EXACTLY what He would do by studying His example in scriptures. So let’s SEE and not guess what Jesus would do when accepting someone. Here’s an example of HIS acceptance: Jhn 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. —end-of-verse———- Notice that after Jesus told her that He would not condemn her, He gave her instructions using five words(go, and sin no more)which convey three very important things: 1.go – as in, you are forgiven and accepted 2.and sin – as in what you did was wrong and sinful 3.no more – as in repent and turn away from sinful actions. So you see, when Jesus forgives and accepts, he STILL calls sin out for what it is, and then requires repentance from that sin.
You all REALLY need to stop trying to lecture folk on how Jesus accepted people until you FULLY understand and accept the limits and requirements of His acceptance. Jesus was not in the “anything goes” business.
@Shanitra:
Also, you all need to get a FULL understanding on what that scripture on judging means. Calling out what is right and wrong according to the word of God is not condemned by the bible. In fact, it is commanded of us to do so. The scripture that you cite only condemns what is known as sensoriousness when judging a matter. Christians are expected to judge what is wrong. Here are some verses that make that clear:
Luke 12:56 Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth, but how is it you do not discern this time? Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not JUDGE what is right?”
John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but JUDGE with righteous judgment.”
IKings 3:5-10 And Your servant is in the midst of Your people whom You have chosen, a great people, too numerous to be numbered or counted. Therefore give to Your servant an understanding heart to JUDGE Your people, that I may DISCERN BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. The speech pleased the Lord….”
1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints WILL JUDGE the world? And if the world will be JUDGED BY YOU, are you unworthy to JUDGE THE SMALLEST MATTERS?” 1 Corinthians 6:2
So you see, there is certainly a correct judgement and a wrong judgement. Correct judgement is based solely on the word of God. When you see something or someone that is behaving contrary to the word and will of God, calling it out as sin is NOT the judgement that is condemned by the scripture that you cite. You guys have such a shallow understanding of scripture because you really don’t study it out in it’s entirety. You simply choose that which feels good to you and repeat it, often dumbing down the specific meaning of it, and making Christ out to be some sort of namby-pamby anything goes savior. Not so according to scripture, and there will be a price to pay for this kind of misrepresentation.
Well, MySista, you continue on your very negative destructive path of taking the job of God to judge everyone who you disagree with, I will continue on my positive path of acceptance and tolerance – and as our country moves into the 21st Century to that of many other countries in acceptance…and we will see who ends up happy and living a TRUE CHRISTIAN LIFE. It is going to change, so you can either be a part of the change and accept it, or you can live in your very dark evil soul, and live in judgement of all others.
So be it!
I will choose to continue in my belief and that we are ALL created in the likeness of GOD, and he and only HE will be the ultimate JUDGE!
God Bless you MySista.
@Shanitra:
Whatever. Feel free to reject scripture in favor of your own personal feel good doctrine. And I am ALREADY living a happy Christian life and have been for the last 19 years. I was a once struggling single mom who is CURRENTLY blessed beyond measure. Accepting Christ and allowing my mind to be renewed to HIS ways is the best decision I ever made in my life. You may call me whatever names you like. I have come to expect it, after all, there were people like you who walked with Jesus Himself and they called Him worse than you can imagine.
2 Peter 3:
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,”
Time is short Shanitra, but you carry on, ok?
Toodles…
IS THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT LOSING ITS GRIP
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/06/conservatives_free_market.html
@Dan, you said,
“aren’t you paranoid!” That’s the typical excuse that rogue cops, racists, people doing criminal things use when they are violating someone rights and privacy. It’s a guise that everyone know that crooked racist cops use. We know this and can see through it. Racists,crooked police, and criminals hiding behinding their and other professions try to discredit someone for reporting on them for an unlawful violations of privacy and rights while profiling and harrassing; you use this ploy all the time.
You either got blacks, minorities, or people standing in the way of your agenda thrown in jail or you wanted try to institutionalize them. It’s the typical racist tactic and you are proven yourself to possible be one in this post.
You even taught uncle toms how to do this, as well, by hiding behind your hate and paying others to harrass and hate.
So, no I am not paranoid, I just call mo’ooooooo fo’ oooo’s the way i see them and what you are throwing at me or in my direction. You closet clansmen are everywhere. The internet and our public services and public offices are still not safe from your true bigotry.
@ko, I type and blog when i am tired. That’s the only thing that I should stop doing and maybe a little proof reading, but re-schooling in elementary grammar is not something I need.
My grammar is not 100% perfect but neither is anyone else typing on the net. I am not on here for a grammar contest. Geeez.
Christians & “Hate” Bills
If “hate bill”-obsessed Congress [and Obama] can’t protect Christians from “****” as much as it wants to protect “****” from Christians, will Congress be surprised if it can’t protect itself from most everyone? If “hate bills” are forced on captive Americans, they’ll still find ways to sneakily continue to “plant” Biblical messages everywhere. By doing so they’ll hasten God’s judgment on their oppressors as revealed in Proverbs 19:1. (See related web items including “David Letterman’s Hate, Etc.,” “Separation of Raunch and State,” “Michael the Narc-Angel,” “Obama Avoids Bible Verses,” and “Tribulation Index becomes Rapture Index.”) Since Congress can’t seem to legislate “morality,” it’s making up for it by legislating “immorality”!
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don t compare immorality with civil rights,and don t compare black people civil rights with your filthiness .
Carolyn comments ,my comment where deleted,we did not say anything offensive ,we made our point, homosexuality is wrong.I can not believe it.