Reid’s Office Pushes Back, Says Lefty Campaign Against Him Is Non-Starter
Senator Harry Reid’s office is now going on record pushing back hard against a campaign by the left to compel him to force Dem Senators into line on health care, with Reid’s spokesman sending me a statement claiming the idea is unworkable and a non-starter.
The decision by Reid’s office to publicly contest the campaign — which is calling on Reid to strip Senate Dems of their committee slots if they won’t agree to vote against the GOP filibuster — suggests that Reid’s office is determined not to let liberal groups define his power in what Reid aides describe as unrealistic terms.
The Progressive Change Campaign Committee, joined by liberal hero Alan Grayson, is set to deliver some 90.000 signatures to Reid insisting he exert control over the Dem caucus.
Asked for comment on the campaign against Reid, spokesman Jim Manley emailed me this:
“Senator Reid is focused on crafting a health care bill that will overcome a Republican filibuster. Stripping Democratic Senators of their leadership titles is a decision that would be left up to the Caucus, not Senator Reid. In light of this reality it’s unlikely that the Caucus would ever go along with this idea.”
The specifics of the argument aside, the skirmishing over Reid’s role is, at bottom, a bitter intra-party battle over who’s to blame for the failure of the Dem caucus to maintain a level of unity that Republicans had no trouble mustering when in the majority.
Liberals argue that Reid, as majority leader, has run out of excuses now that he has a 60 vote majority — and that he should be insisting that Senate Dems commit to voting against GOP procedural tricks in exchange for their perks as members of the majority party. Reid’s camp argues that the realities of caucus politics are more complex than that, and appears to be determined not to allow the blame for Dem disunity to fall entirely on his shoulders.
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At the end of the day, he has 60 votes so there are no excuses. He has the power to put a public option into the bill. What he chooses to do is going to affect him in 2010 and he needs to recognize he has a serious problem with the base and unions if he doesn’t stand up for democrats and lets President Snowe hijack this debate.
Talk to me in 8 months.
THE single most important — and most over-looked — foreign policy story just got hotter:
Pakistani jets pounded militant hide-outs along the Afghan border overnight as hundreds of thousands of civilians fled South Waziristan in anticipation of an expected government offensive there, government officials said Wednesday.
Government officials have threatened an operation in the lawless border area for months, but they said a string of recent suicide bombings blamed on the Taliban has strengthened their resolve to engage in what will likely be a long and bloody confrontation.
[...]
Military jets have been hitting suspected Taliban strongholds in the region for weeks. The airstrikes have grown more frequent in recent days in what appears to be an effort to soften up the militants ahead of a ground assault.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/10/pakistan_jets_pound_militant_hide-outs_kill_9.php
I wish there was a LOT more coverage on what’s going on in Waziristan. Re: Af/Pak, it’s all about Waziristan.
“suggests that Reid’s office is determined not to let liberal groups define his power in what Reid aides describe as unrealistic terms.”
Well duh.
He’s up for re-election in a conservative place.
Reid will win in a cakewalk. He can thank John Ensign.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28264.html
This whole thing is silly. No Democratic Senators are going to vote to keep a Republican Filibuster alive, because that would kill Health Care Reform, and kill their political careers. Can we stop with all this petulant tilting at windmills.
Dreaming up worst case scenarios, and then demanding that Harry Reid take draconian measures, against those who some people imagine might stray, is the height of paranoia, and down right counter productive.
No Senator would take kindly to being threatened in that manner.
“Senator Reid is focused on crafting a health care bill that will overcome a Republican filibuster.”
AKA Watered down to the extent it can’t be called substantial reform.
We are asking him to overcome a Democratic filibuster, not a “Republican” one. The Democratic caucus has 60 votes, there is no filibuster unless it is Democrat-enabled.
I was wondering…didn’t Reid come out and say, I think it was last week, that Dems that weren’t willing to allow Dem health care legislation come to vote would lose their seniority or something?
“I was wondering…didn’t Reid come out and say, I think it was last week, that Dems that weren’t willing to allow Dem health care legislation come to vote would lose their seniority or something?”
Rachel Maddow reported last week that “congressional leaders” without naming names, were up for this. Apparently that report was premature.
Liam is correct.
No Democrat is going to join a Republican filibuster and any senator, especially the senate leader, is not going to take kindly to threats.
It’s only unworkable if you’re a spineless moron who misplaced his testicles.
Harry, sweetie, honey, if the GOP can do it, so can you. Put down the ballet slippers and teacup and DO YOUR F*CKING JOB.
Ethan
Thanks for the link on AF/PAK. It looks like the Pakistani’s are beginning to take a harder line with the militants, especially now they’ve had so many attacks from extremists recently. Do you think Waziristan will be our main focus in Pakistan as well, given that these same militants also target Afghanistan?
Tena — I think Rachel reported that the liberal groups wanted Reid to say this, not that Reid actually said it.
Greg – you must be right; I misheard her report.
“Liberals argue that Reid” What liberals, please?
Taking potshots at Reid is the second most engaged-in pastime for Democrats after Palin.
I liked the one from a couple weeks ago where an unnamed person speaking for “unnamed liberal groups” pledged to primary him.
The Left can be just as entertaining as the wingnuts sometimes.
“The Left can be just as entertaining as the wingnuts sometimes.”
If not more so.
LOL!
I very much doubt anything rivals the sheer absurdity of Palin and Teabaggers.
“I very much doubt anything rivals the sheer absurdity of Palin and Teabaggers.
”
I admit that’s a hard act to follow, though I thought liberals did a pretty good job of being absurd when some were boo-hooing over our president winning the fraking Nobel Prize. That’s about as absurd as I want us to get, frankly.
It is impressive how willing Democrats are to combat their own party, yet not stand up to the non-sense spewed by their colleagues across the aisle. If only he batted away stuff like the bill representing ’socialist” health care, “government take over”, or any of the other absurd comments that Grassley, Enzi, Kyl and friends have put forth.
As for no one threatening Reid, that only holds as long as something seen as useful passes. Otherwise he can’t expect hold his seat against even no name Republicans (as shown in most every poll for the state).
So, if the Pakistanis drive the Taliban out of Pakistan, and if the US switches to a counter-terrorist strategy only, where do you think the Taliban might end up? This is why we need to take the fight to the Taliban as well as al qaeda. Pakistan understands that a Taliban-controlled country on their border spells disaster.
Speaking of lefty/righty.
I was listening to righty Joe Scarborough on his radio show this morning driving in. He was going on and on about how Limbaugh isn’t racist. He was providing his listeners, he said, defenses of Rush to use against Liberal falsehoods being spread.
With how some on the right have defined what racism is, it would be impossible to paint him as one.
But, what is blatantly obvious is Rush no doubtingly race baits and plays to his white audiences worst antipathies.
Heck, look no further than the list Media Matters has put forth.
http://mediamatters.org/research/200910130049
“Do you think Waziristan will be our main focus in Pakistan as well, given that these same militants also target Afghanistan?”
Abso-damn-lutely. It SHOULD be, imho. Nothing else comes close. The Taliban and AQ are HQ in the tribal regions including Waziristan. From there they mount attacks inside both Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I believe the general population in Pakistan is against military action on the militants because they see it as an ethnic battle, not looking through our prism of a ‘battle of civilizations’.
But now several things are changing the game:
- the Taliban making serious gains within Pakistan
- the political environment in the USA re: Af/Pak is deteriorating, and with it comes questions about why we are funding Pakistan’s military if they aren’t going to move on the militants
- the military environment within Afghanistan is not only unsustainable now, but it is also deteriorating, largely imho because we’ve given Pakistan the authority to decide whether or not to go into the tribal regions.
- we have been pushing diplomatic buttons asking why/whether/how the ISI is assisting the Taliban. The Pakistani govt is thus forced to decide whether to stick with America and our military and humanitarian aid or pacify ‘regular’ Pakistanis by avoiding conflict with the tribal militants.
All told, this is quite literally, imho, a CRITICAL time in Pakistan and our success in both Pakistan and Afghanistan is dependent on strong military action (ground assault with air support) in the tribal lands and Waziristan.
“I was listening to righty Joe Scarborough on his radio show this morning driving in. He was going on and on about how Limbaugh isn’t racist. He was providing his listeners, he said, defenses of Rush to use against Liberal falsehoods being spread”
You know what that’s about don’t you? It’s about Rush and the NFL. Rush is claiming that there is a conspiracy among liberal sports writers to make him appear racist.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
Yeah Rush, you aren’t a racist and they aren’t using your own words against you or anything.
Ethan – I read over at TPM that Britain is sending 500 more troops to Afghanistan.
Limbaugh isn’t racist
Limbaugh is an act, which is worse.
sbj, what you just stated is why strategies are being re-evaluated. This recent push from the Pakistanis is something that wasn’t happening 6 months ago. I mean heck, they just gave Swat valley to the Taliban last year with no fight. Now, with the newly brazen fighting from the Pakistanis, this becomes a whole new ball game now that they are pushing back in Swat and S. Waziristan. To top it off, what was once a military advantage, that being the mountain range, is now turning into a detriment since the range becomes impassable during the winter months. The Al-Qaeda and Taliban sympathizer positions in Pakistan are becoming a no escape death trap.
I’d argue Obama has been fairly pragmatic so far and this recent development in Pakistan, along with the final nail in the coffin in confidence of the Afghan Govn’t after the fraudulent election will all come into play with what their next move is.
“Limbaugh is an act, which is worse.”
You took the words right out of my mouth – or off my fingers. I was just going to say that – he’s totally cynical, he doesn’t really believe in anything except Rush and his jillions.
What he’s doing is appealing to racists for all he’s worth. Whether he is one or not, he’s trying to stir up racism in his audience.
Tena, yes, it all relates to his NFL bid. Rush has the same delusional denial traits the Cheney’s have. They are incapable of coming to terms with their past actions. Actions have consequences. Rush will learn to deal with it in the end.
“. Actions have consequences. Rush will learn to deal with it in the end.”
God I hope so – I keep waiting. If he was the average African American from Florida and had gotten caught like Rush did, with drugs – he’s so be in prison. It’s criminal that he’s not.
Someday I hope to hell he finds out that hate has consequences.
@mike: Thanks for not insulting me!
I do understand that strategies must be re-evaluated. I do not understand why the Bidens of the world are arguing that we can safely switch to a counter-terrorist strategy. I am hoping that Obama realizes we must prevent the Taliban from regaining any type of power in Afghanistan, lest they let that country again become a training ground for terrorists of any stripe. Let’s not forget that Afghanistan, under Taliban control, was home to terrorists training camps where literally tens of thousands of terrorists came to receive training and then went on their merry way spread out all over the globe. We’re there now, let’s not let it happen again.
We cannot defeat the Taliban.
That was not our objective anyway and I agree with Biden 100%.
Trying to defeat the Taliban is how we end up like Russia and like Britain before Russia, and every other empire that tried it.
“If he was the average African American from Florida and had gotten caught like Rush did, with drugs – he’s so be in prison. It’s criminal that he’s not.”
This from the lawyer who is proud to have gotten an admitted murderer (the infamous beat my father to death with a cast murderer) out of jail without prison time.
LMAO
“That was not our objective anyway.”
It sure as heck was Obama’s objective!
What happens if the Taliban regains power and begins training terrorists again and they go to Saudi Arabia and Germany to plot against us?
“This from the lawyer who is proud to have gotten an admitted murderer (the infamous beat my father to death with a cast murderer) out of jail without prison time.”
You don’t get it.
It’s precisely because I know the system that I know that if Rush didn’t have money and fame, he’d be in jail.
I wasn’t his lawyer, dumb*a*s*s* – I don’t have to want him to win. You really think I root for all the criminals?
All I did was work to make sure the Constitution of the United States was followed, and the statutes and the law.
That’s all I did.
I got the guy who killed his grandfather a new trial – I didn’t get him off. He was convicted again.
They should have done it right the first time – that’s not my fault.
People who don’t get criminal defense don’t understand America.
If you’re proud to have defended someone who admittedly beat his grandfather to death go right ahead!
And now I don’t understand America!
Sheesh. Only those who defend admitted murderers and dole out compassion based on ideology truly understand the USA.
“If you’re proud to have defended someone who admittedly beat his grandfather to death go right ahead!”
And frak you for willfully refusing to get it.
“Only those who defend admitted murderers and dole out compassion based on ideology truly understand the USA.”
Look – you’re just talking s*h*i*t. You get indicted for a crime, you better believe you’re going to want a fair trial.
My pride always came from making sure that everyone in this country got the fair trial the constitution mandates.
If you think that translates to some kind of feeling for my clients, dude you couldn’t be more wrong. I wasn’t concerned with their stories. My concern was the law.
Now go ahead and continue to pretend that being a criminal defense lawyer means that you like criminals. Go ahead – it just makes you look like an idiot.
Quel surprise.
Such a double standard.
I earlier did NOT defend Rush but forwarded the idea that addicts deserved compassion. I was attacked and accused of defending Rush.
Do you get it now?
sbj – don’t try that disingenuous stuff on me – I’m used to you. You made a general suggestion about addicts and compassion as part of a comment directly about Rush. And you argued for your position about Rush.
Please – this is your style.
It’s okay to defend an admitted murderer because you’re not really defending what he did, you’re just standing up for his constitutional rights.
However, it’s not okay to request compassion for an addict because that means you’re not really trying to alleviate suffering, you’re really just a racist.
I get it now!
“Let’s not forget that Afghanistan, under Taliban control, was home to terrorists training camps”
Ha.
Let’s not forget that areas controlled by Pakistan, an American ally in the battle against Islamic extremism, are CURRENTLY home to Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar AS WE SPEAK.
The Afghan strategy is all about the tribal regions in Pakistan. THAT is why COIN would be a colossal failure were we to implement it in Afghanistan. This is NOT a battle for Afghanistan, this is a battle against entrenched Islamic extremists in the tribally-administered areas between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
The sooner the media myth of a surge in Afghanistan is destroyed, the better for America and our national security.
How about we release all those African Americans doing prison terms for having committed lesser drug offenses than Rush Limbaugh?
SBJ is full of compassion for the wealthy scoff law, who broke many drug laws, over and over, including using his maid as a gom between him and the pushers.
Rush got the best medical treatment for his addiction, and his money allowed him to have the best legal representation that money could buy, and they got him off, with just a tickle on the wrist.
That was ample compassion indeed.
Now how about showing as much compassion and leniency toward all those poor black, small time drug offenders, who have been thrown in jail, and the key tossed away?
@Liam
“This whole thing is silly. No Democratic Senators are going to vote to keep a Republican Filibuster alive, because that would kill Health Care Reform, and kill their political careers. Can we stop with all this petulant tilting at windmills.”
If we can take a break from Waziristan and Rush Limbaugh for a second, I’d like to remind people that Lieberman isn’t a Democrat and he has consistantly spoken against this bill–and did so recently, taking the straight Republican “we’re going too fast, we’re in a recession, we’re trying to do too much” concern-trolling line. His wife is thigh-deep the healthcare industry sewer. And, worst of all, the narcissitic little p.o.s. has never once suffered any consequences for his many acts of betrayal, going back to the recount in 2000, and he doesn’t believe he’ll suffer any now. He’s the biggest danger, not least because if he joins a filibuster, he gives cover to Nelson, Landrieu and, possibly, Lincoln, to join him.
“Let’s not forget that areas controlled by Pakistan, an American ally in the battle against Islamic extremism, are CURRENTLY home to Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar AS WE SPEAK.”
You are completely right, Ethan. On all of this.
“He’s the biggest danger, not least because if he joins a filibuster, he gives cover to Nelson, Landrieu and, possibly, Lincoln, to join him.”
I agree with most of what you said, but I sure don’t agree that he gives cover to any Democrats at all.
Thanks Tena. It just amazes me that the media can go off on a 48 hour circle-jerk about McCrystal but the real action is totally and thoroughly ignored.
It’s not like the info’s not out there… I read the article about Pakistan’s movement into Waziristan in Reuters over the weekend.
I strongly, strongly suggest that anyone who has any interest in Afghanistan or Pakistan or the Taliban or AQ (and that includes you Greg and anyone else at PL) read THIS piece, if nothing else, for an update on the current environment:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091011/india_nm/india430796
Remember how the US let Al-Qaeda escape out the back door into Pakistan?
Is this going to be a reverse case of the same mistake. When Pakistan attacks, will we have forces on the Afghanistan side of the border waiting to stop those under attack from the Pakistan forces, from fleeing into Afghanistan?
Would that not be a good temporary use of our existing forces; move about twenty thousand troops up to near the Pakistan border, so that we squeeze the bad guys between two fronts.
Is anyone aware of any such maneuver being planned, or is McCrystal just going to hunker down far from the border,like his proposal calls for.
If he does, then Pakistan forces will see the enemy just melt into the badlands, only to return once Pakistan’s military returns to their bases.
PESHAWAR, Pakistan (Reuters) – Pakistani aircraft bombed Taliban fighters in their South Waziristan bastion on Wednesday as more soldiers and tanks moved in for an expected offensive against the militant hub.
The government says most attacks in the country — including four major ones since October 5 that killed more than 100 people — are plotted in South Waziristan on the Afghan border.
“THAT is why COIN would be a colossal failure were we to implement it in Afghanistan.”
You mean the strategy that Obama decided to implement more than 6 months ago?
“You mean the strategy that Obama decided to implement more than 6 months ago?”
No, I mean the strategy that Obama decided to put on hold after McCrystal leaked his report to the press.
Liam – I do think you’re right about this being the reverse of the nonaction the Bush Administration took when they had Osama trapped on the border.
That’s how I see this – this was the biggest thing liberals complained about when it came to pointing out where Bush went wrong in the GWOT.
Prick.
That Yahoo article really brings home the point that the Taliban and al qaeda are working together. The Taliban would love to be able to take over Afghanistan and continue to try and destabilize Pakistan from there. If we’re “lucky” they’ll be able to join forces with al qaeda and get control of a nuclear weapon.
We can’t defeat one without defeating the other.
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/10/analysis_al_qaeda_is.php
“The idea that al Qaeda is a discrete organization that can be neatly separated from the Afghan insurgency is a fantasy. All three of the major branches of the insurgency, as well as their sponsors, are closely allied with al Qaeda and have been for years.
“Air strikes using drones are a valuable tool for disrupting al Qaeda’s external network, thereby hampering the terror network’s capacity to strike the West. But such strikes are a tactic, not a strategy. And, it should be noted, these strikes have frequently killed senior Taliban commanders as well. This only emphasizes the degree of cooperation between the Taliban and al Qaeda.
…
“Should the insurgents conquer Afghanistan once again, there is no doubt that al Qaeda would return to its former safe haven. But that is, in some ways, the least of our concerns. Their return to power would be a victory for all of those forces that spawned al Qaeda in the first place.”
“No, I mean the strategy that Obama decided to put on hold after McCrystal leaked his report to the press.”
Bless you, Ethan.
that was to sbj not you Tena
>>>The Taliban would love to be able to take over Afghanistan and continue to try and destabilize Pakistan from there.<<<
Fail.
So, the General report that it is not being effective, and President Obama is reconsidering what to do next.
It took Bush more than six years in Iraq, before he was willing to stop pursuing what was not working over and over again, and expecting different results.
SBJ is such a Idiot, that he thinks that it is a weakness for President Obama to reevaluate a strategy, that General McChrystal recently reported is not getting results.
You know the quote about a foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds.
Apparently SBJ has a hobgoblin in residence within his tiny brain cavity.
“No, I mean the strategy that Obama decided to put on hold after McCrystal leaked his report to the press.”
You need to reacquaint yourself with the Af-Pak strategy that Obama announced 6 months ago and the accompanying white paper upon which it is based.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/afghanistan_pakistan_white_paper_final.pdf
SUMMARY OF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN
• Executing and resourcing an integrated civilian-military counterinsurgency strategy in Afghanistan.
SBJ…wow you want to play the what ifs…
What happens if the Taliban regains power and begins training terrorists again and they go to Saudi Arabia and Germany to plot against us?
First off I don’t believe it was the Taliban who “plotted” against…I think that was Al Qaida.
And so I ask..What if we allow the communists to overrun South Vietnam…why they’ll then seize the rest of Indonisia and be swilling a cold Fosters in Melbourne….The more things change…the more….
But I’ll play your what if game SBJ…What if we kick the Taiban’s butt and miraculously turn Afghanistan into a Jeffersonian and Al Qaida returns to Somalia…just invade there? Then they move to the lawless part of the Southern Philipines…invade there? When do we get to stop invading.
Again the reason I rant as you refer to it is I’ve seen all this chickenhawk BS before…It doesan’t work and the paranoia that inspires always produces false conclusions!
9/11 was a CRIMINAL conspiracy…not a MILITARY attack. If Bush had paid closer attention to that infamous August memo instead of responding…OK you’ve covered your asses…well we can play the what ifs all afternoon.
How about a fact…the last attempt of a terrorist attack was foiled by POLICE work not MILITARY adventurism. Seriously folks this has all happened over and over again WHEN willl we learn?
Now SBJ you said…”Pakistan understands that a Taliban-controlled country on their border spells disaster.” You make my point! Let them freaking take care of it. They have BILLIONS in economic and MILITARY aid from us…let them die for their protection…I am ranting now because I’m tired as hell of militaristic chicken hawks who NEVER served sending the rest of us on mistaken military adventures. As a vet myself this is a true venting rant because if you had gone to Vietnam and saw what I witnessed you’d realize we’re talking about REAL humans here…fellow Amerioans…dying over BS…forgive me but this issue pisses me off far worse than health care. Should have used one of my two chances to not go to Southeast Asia I guess…perhaps it’s made me bitter and cynical…but watching our troops..Liz Cheney…it all drived me nuckin futs!!!!
So! General McChrystal recently reported that it is not being effective, and President Obama is reconsidering what to do next.
It took Bush more than six years in Iraq, before he was willing to stop pursuing what was not working over and over again, and expecting different results.
SBJ is such a Idiot, that he thinks that it is a weakness for President Obama to reevaluate a strategy, that General McChrystal recently reported is not getting results.
You know the quote about a foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds.
Apparently SBJ has a hobgoblin in residence within his tiny brain cavity.
Right, prick. And after showing that they would need >250k combat troops for a victorious COIN operation that strategy was wisely put on hold.
FACT: the USA/NATO and the Taliban are both trying to protect Afghan citizens.
Afghanistan is the proxy. The real deal is in the Pakistani-administered tribal regions.
Go back and re-read my post and form an argument that makes sense or just shut up:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/reids-office-pushes-back-says-lefty-campaign-against-him-is-non-starter/comment-page-2/#comment-92604
“that was to sbj not you Tena”
Boo, I know that.
“What happens if the Taliban regains power and begins training terrorists again and they go to Saudi Arabia and Germany to plot against us?”
“First off I don’t believe it was the Taliban who “plotted” against…I think that was Al Qaida.”
Ummm, the “they” in my sentence refers to terrorists – aka al qaeda.
“What if we allow the communists to overrun South Vietnam… What if we kick the Taiban’s butt and miraculously turn Afghanistan into a Jeffersonian and Al Qaida returns to Somalia…just invade there?
You may not realize this, but congress declared war on al qaeda. No one is asking for a Jeffersonian democracy in Afghanistan. We are in Afghanistan now, and so is our enemy, why leave? We continue to fight al qaeda in Somalia and the Philipines and elsewhere. yes! We should fight our enemy everywhere we can! We have declared war on them.
???
@ethan: I take it you are trying to say that the Taliban mounts attacks only from the tribal regions including Waziristan and that they do not control or exist to any extent in considerable regions of Afghanistan otherwise? Sure we’ve got to get rid of them in Waziristan – Go Pakistan – but the Taliban is resurging all over Afghanistan right now.
Lots of different opinions here on AF/PAK. I think I’ll keep reading and re-define or clarify my position. I’d like to have a better understanding of the situation before Obama comes out with either new goals or new strategy or both.
Thanks for the articles Ethan.
sbj, I’ve read that there are only about 100 Al Qaida left in Afghanistan, does that jive with the Taliban resurging all over Afghanistan right now. Are you saying all these resurging Taliban are terrorists?
Or are you trying to say that the Afghani Taliban are protecting the Afghan population and do not have ties to the Taliban while the Pakistani Taliban are actively working with al qaeda but are only interested in overthrowing the Pakistani govt and have no ties with the Afghani Taliban and no interest in Afghanistan?
“sbj, I’ve read that there are only about 100 Al Qaida left in Afghanistan”
I think that may be true.
“Does that jive with the Taliban resurging all over Afghanistan right now.”
Yes, because the Taliban and al qaeda are different entities that work in cooperation and have for some time now.
Not all of the Taliban are “terrorists” – there are moderate elements and we should work with them when possible. That has been a part of Obama’s plan from 6 months ago, too.
“Do not have ties to the Taliban” = Do not have ties to al qaeda.
“I take it you are trying to say that the Taliban mounts attacks only from the tribal regions including Waziristan and that they do not control or exist to any extent in considerable regions of Afghanistan otherwise?”
Did I say that, prick? In addition to being a prick, you have an overactive imagination. Horrible combo if you want to be taken seriously.
“Sure we’ve got to get rid of them in Waziristan – Go Pakistan – but the Taliban is resurging all over Afghanistan right now.”
Because they’re coming across the border like they did when they killed 8 of our troops in Nuristan province:
“Afghan authorities said the hostile force included fighters who had been driven out of the Swat Valley of neighboring Pakistan after a Pakistani military offensive there last spring.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33160876/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia
SBJ….I’m sorry to make it personal dude..no I’m not going to call you a prick lol…but when YOU or your son volunteers to go off and fight ” We are in Afghanistan now, and so is our enemy, why leave?” then you have earned the right to ask why leave. Stay as long as you wish…but I’m tired as hell of wasting American youth.
SBJ if you haven’t been around long enough yet to learn those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat….HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO REPEAT THIS MISTAKE? The FBI/CIA/Homeland Security are protecting us…not the hundreds of thousands of troops in two foreign wastes of lives and treasure!!!
When I hear Diane Feinstein tell George Stephanopholus “McChrystal is a cracker jack General” and speaks as if he is Moses coming down from the mount…I”VE HEARD THIS ALL BEFORE!
Ask yourselves…WTF does Feinstein know about being a cracker jack general. Did she attend West Point? Has she ever served in a combat zone under one of these “cracker jacks”? Seriously…what criteria is she basing her assessment? He looked good in his uniform in front of her Senate committee? WTF does Feinstein understand about military stategy?
SBJ…just because we termed a CRIMINAL CONSIPIRACY a WAR does it make it so….We are in the middle of a drug WAR….do you advocate invading Mexico? Columbia? If the right declared a “WAR” on pornography would you invade Thailand or perhaps station troops in the SIMI valley…it would be a WAR after all!!! SBJ your commentary on this subject is completely devoid of any historical perspective or life experience…if only we could draft you and Liz Cheney and send you both to Waziristan.
SBJ…just because we termed a CRIMINAL CONSIPIRACY a WAR does it make it so….We are in the middle of a drug WAR….do you advocate invading Mexico? Columbia? If the right declared a “WAR” on pornography would you invade Thailand or perhaps station troops in the SIMI valley…it would be a WAR after all!!! SBJ your commentary on this subject is completely devoid of any historical perspective or life experience…if only we could draft you and Liz Cheney and send you both to Waziristan.”
It’s not just that we’ve termed this criminal conspiracy a war – Congress, in its collective wisdom authorized the use of force against al qaeda and its allies and those who harbor them. If you’ve got a problem with that then you’d better take it up with the Democratically controlled congress and your President. You conflate “wars” with real live actual ones.
I’ll reserve the right to comment on these matters no matter my particular experience or status in the military or whether I went to West Point. Did Obama serve? Did he graduate Annapolis? Am I missing something here?
The lessons of Vietnam and Iraq tell us precisely that a strategy of counter-terrorism will not work – the lesson is that a counter insurgency strategy is the key to possible victory.
No one here is addressing the fact that the Taliban harbored al qaeda and permitted terrorist training camps in their borders. If Afghanistan falls back under Taliban rule then al qaeda will return and so will the terrorist training camps. That path once led to 9/11.
SBJ…no that was not the path that led us to 9/11…the conspiracy may have been hatched in Afghanistan…may have been…maybe Germany..wherever the terrorists decided to complete their plans…the point you are missing is that logistically and physically EVERYTHING about 9/11 was done in OUR country and could have been avoided if Bush has paid attention to proper warnings. I don’t mean to dump all of this on Bush however…there is enough blame to go around. However..NEITHER of these “WARS” have stopped a SINGLE terrorist act on US soil. We have..as recently as a couple of weeks ago..foiled terrorist plots with solid POLICE work not MILITARY intervention.
As to your point..”If you’ve got a problem with that then you’d better take it up with the Democratically controlled congress and your President.” Trust me I am doing just that. Obama will not retain my support if he ups the ante in Afghanistan. Of course what choice will I really have SBJ when chickenhawks like Liz Cheney or Daddy Dick go on TV and display ALL that wonderful courage and conviction in spite of the fact that they have BEEN WRONG REPEATEDLY…and it’s all on videotape and in quotes from articles.
“could have been avoided if Bush has paid attention to proper warnings.”
Yea, the warning is: if you let the Taliban run a country and permit terrorist training camps on their territory then you’re gonna have terrorists shipped out all over the world.
Let’s start here: Do you think that terrorists of many stripes freely trained in Afghanistan while under Taliban rule and that many of those terrorists then went on to kill innocent civilians all over the world?
Obviously Afganistan was rife with terrorist camps, in the 1990’s.
Obviously, Afganistan today is not Afganistan of 1998.
Afgans are tired of foreign fighters and unlike 1999, we now fly our predators wherever we think they are needed, and risk not one single American to do it.
I will tell you something else about Afganistan today, the 1990’s were kindergartners playing on monkey bars and learing fertilizer recipies.
Today Afganistan is a PHD level college course in how to destabilize a country and fight against the US, with Master level courses in IED’s and Opium.
Fighting in Afganistan we are spending many many times the Afgan GDP to catch about “100″ al-qaeda members per General McChrystal.
Up the infrastructure and human aid, pull back the military footprint, and lay hell to Pakistan to do something for us for the Billions they have stolen in the last 10 years.
Hell get the Iranians involved again, they have an interest in a stable border.
What Afganistan needs is accountants not boots and bullets.
Why would the caucus not go along with stripping positions of those who oppose the agenda? Is it because Harry won’t bring the issue to a vote? Clearly there is 31 senators making noise for the public option which is enough to pass in the caucus (I would think).