House Liberals To Pelosi: Stick With Us, And Ditch The Blue Dogs
Looks like House liberals are serious about pressuring Nancy Pelosi and the House leadership to stand firm behind a real public option.
The latest: The two top House progressives have just fired off a letter to Pelosi that, in effect, urges her to stick with them and to ditch the Blue Dogs when the public option rubber hits the road.
The letter, which was sent over by a source, makes this point by noting that the version of the public option in the House health care proposal negotiated by Blue Dogs — the version that emerged from Henry Waxman’s Energy and Commerce committee — pales beside the ones created by two other key House committees, which have a more robust public option.
The two progressives — Dem Reps. Lynn Woolsey and Raul Grijalva — ask Pelosi for a meeting to discuss these pertinent facts. They write flat out that the version negotiated by Blue Dogs is “unacceptable” to them, because it results in far less savings than the two other versions.
You should read the letter yourself. But suffice it to say that it’s another sign that when it comes to the public option, House liberals are preparing for a showdown with Blue Dogs — and showing no intention to budge.
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Good good good good! This is good pressure – the kind Congress responds to and I’m so glad.
I hope they are armed with the petitions I’ve signed for the PO – I’ve lost count of how many.
I’ve recently seen a survey showing physicians are for single payer by a fairly large margin. And then of course as we saw last week here on the Plum line there was the FDL ad in Arkansas targeting blue dogs and pointing out the majority of Arkansans are FOR the P.O.
My question for the astute political observers is…just how much backlash would the blue dogs actually face? Are their constituent REALLY that solidly opposed to the P.O.? I wish there was a site that provided state by blue dog state analysis.
Are these guys actually afraid of their contituents or the insurance lobby?
Agreed Tena
This is the kind of pressure they need to keep on giving to leadership. I also read earlier that Baucus is already changing some of the provisions in his bill prior to tomorrows conference to make it more palatable to liberals. Not sure how robust they are but it’s a start.
Rukidding
It’s my understanding they’re afraid of not being re-elected. They’re raising lots of money from Insurance and Pharma for their campaigns and most of them hail from fairly conservative districts. I’m with you though, if their constituents support the PO, isn’t that enough cover to vote for it.
Pelosi will put together a bill that can pass and if the Blue Dogs en masse refuse to bend; the Progressives will at the end of the day IMO.
Especially given the fact the White House is focused on getting to 60, not 51 in the senate.
Also, if you read the letter, there is more cost savings with the more robust public option than the weaker one. The co-ops in the Baucus plan score no savings, so why bother.
“that Baucus is already changing some of the provisions in his bill prior to tomorrows conference to make it more palatable to liberals. Not sure how robust they are but it’s a start.”
Imsinca – I just was reading that. It’s good news.
Here is the thing that needs to be pointed out.
Liberals got elected to represent their constituents, just as much as Blue Dogs were to represent theirs.
Since the Democratic majority consists of far more liberals, than Blue Dogs, then why should the tail wag the dog, no matter how blue the damn thing is.
I would like to see Speaker Pelosi hold a caucus, and call for a party roll call on the Public Option, with the understanding that the will of the majority of the members, will be backed by all.
That is all that the Blue Dogs are entitled to. If they win that vote fine, but if they end up being in the minority, then they are not entitled to override the will of the majority.
Their house seats should not count for more than one vote each, just because they are Blue Dogs.
And speaking of good news – here’s stunning news: in a poll in Iowa on gay marriage, 92% of the respondents said that gay marriage has had no impact on their marriages or lives.
You get it. Thank you, Iowa.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/21/poll-92-of-iowans-believe_n_293539.html
Rhoda,
You may be correct, but I hope you’ll forgive me for hoping you are mistaken.
Reform without the PO is not reform IMHO. I pay over $10,000 a year for health insurance…thank God I’m healthy…a few months ago a simple kidney stone added $5,000 to the bill. I know it has been brought up before…but I don’t believe it get’s enough attention..reform is JUST as important for those with insurance as it is for the uninsured. What % of the medically caused bankruptcies are filed by insured people?
Do any of the current bills address something as simple as CLEAR, RELATIVELY CONCISE E.O.B’s. I work in real estate and closings of properties valued in the hundreds of thousands dollars are simple to interpret compared to what I’m receiving for a simple kidney stone. Closings are all done on a standard HUD form…could we not force insurance companies and providers to adhere to a standard form?
Here’s another tidbit of news. It looks like the Repubs in the Mass. Senate will not hold up reinstatement of the Gov’s appointment powers by using a procedural challenge.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/59635–mass-appointment-bill-could-pass-tuesday
On somethings you have to take a firm stand. You have to set your feet in cement, and refuse to budge.
Here is where I am on health care reform.
Without a Robust Public Option, it will only make things worse. The government will be paying subsidies to the Private Insurance Companies to compensate them for the additional costs of covering high risk people. The premium costs of all people will continue to soar, and the government will be turning over hundreds of billions of tax dollars to The Insurance Ponzi operators.
Without a Public Health Option, it would be totally unacceptable to require people to purchase insurance, or pay a steep fine. That would be making the government the Repo Man for The Insurance Ponzi Operators. Never, Ever forget that those Insurance Racketeers are not in the business of treating sick people. They are just in the skimming off the top racket. That is a Ponzi scheme.
Why should the government be in the business of fining people for not making payments to Bernie Madoff.
Without a public auction, the health care reform should be allowed to crash and burn, because all it would do is make the Ponzi operators become more entrenched, and too big to fail. Wake up people.
Real reform, or none at all. Better to let it go down in flames, and let businesses,suffer the consequences, than to make only the changes that the Insurance Cabal are asking for.
Sometimes you have to let a situation get worse, before people wake up to the need for real change.
A Robust Public Option or Nothing is where I am on this.
What the hell would be the point of settling for anything less. The Insurance Companies claim that the can not compete with a public option. Great. That is a clear admission that they will never be as efficient as a government administered option, which is going to pay medial bills out of the premiums it collects from members.
Since the Private Insurance Gang admit that they can not compete against government efficiency, which the Republicans always deride, then why the hell would we pass a bill that gives those moguls of inefficiency even more business.
Public Option, Or Bust. At this stage, I will settle for either. I am not in the business of saving face. Either something is worth fighting for, or we should just end this charade, and just withdraw from the battle field.
I’m not sure this is intended to pressure Pelosi so much as it is to prepare the ground for the CPC saying “NO”. Maybe that’s the same thing…but to me it looks more like a defensive move on part of CPC.
It is not defense. It is a warning shot, to let Speaker Pelosi that she should “dance with what brung ye”. Those liberal are the ones who made her speaker, because many of the blue dogs did not want her to have the spot, so she better stop catering to them, and taking the liberal majority for granted. That is the actual message.
“Maybe that’s the same thing…”
See, I think it’s the same thing.
edit:
It is not defense. It is a warning shot, to let Speaker Pelosi know that she should “dance with what brung ye”. Those liberal are the ones who made her speaker, because many of the blue dogs did not want her to have the spot, so she better stop catering to them, and taking the liberal majority for granted. That is the actual message.
Preview of President Obama’s Letterman appearance tonight.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090921/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_letterman_4
He was given a heart shaped potato, or as it is known in my family; an Irish Valentine.
Whatever it is, I hope it works. I just signed another petition, and like Tena, I can’t keep track of them anymore.
Somedays I agree with you Liam, and other days I think maybe we should get what we can this go around and keep improving it. When it comes down to the final bill, I guess I’ll have to see what it actually does, then decide yes or no.
Large study in Europe, Canada, and the USA, of places where smoking bans have been put in place, Heart Attacks have fallen by 17%.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-09-21-smoking-bans_N.htm?csp=YahooModule_News
Damn government taking away people’s freedom to kill their selves, and those around them.
# lmsinca | September 21st, 2009 at 06:03 pm
Whatever it is, I hope it works. I just signed another petition, and like Tena, I can’t keep track of them anymore.
Somedays I agree with you Liam, and other days I think maybe we should get what we can this go around and keep improving it. When it comes down to the final bill, I guess I’ll have to see what it actually does, then decide yes or no.
……………………….
I doubt if if will come up again, if we pass what will not work now. That will give the opponents all the ammunition they will need to point out that our last reform effort failed, so why trust us to get it right this time.
If we pass the Public Option now, it will either work or it will not. If it does not work, then it will not be very difficult to repeal it. Republicans would be all too happy to vote with us on that move.
If we do not pass a Public Option bill now, we will never get another chance, unless we pass nothing at all now.
Imsinca -
“Whatever it is, I hope it works”
yeah, it’s times like these that I almost wish I wasn’t agnostic.
“I doubt if if will come up again, if we pass what will not work now. That will give the opponents all the ammunition they will need to point out that our last reform effort failed, so why trust us to get it right this time.”
The history of this kind of legislation suggests otherwise, Liam. I think it took some doing to get Medicare where it is now.
I think that it depends on just what finally gets passed. I can conceive of the problem you see arising, and I can conceive of the opposition starting to die on the vine over it too, because it wouldn’t have to be approached again immediately. And once these things get passed, attitudes change – like in Iowa after it got with the Constitution and made marriage legal for ALL our citizens.
Stupid liberals. You’d rather be right than president.
Democratic Members of Congress are not opposed to a public option because they get a little money from industry. They opposes it because their constituents don’t want it. Maybe they oppose it because they are not as smart as you, but they do oppose it. Members of Congress who get too far out in front of their constituents end up as former Members of Congress. Having republicans in those seats does not help health care or anything else.
Don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good. Take a half a loaf and improve on it over time. If you try to push too much through all at once we will end up with nothing.
Scott Andrews
I guess you missed this one. In Ross’s district.
Public Option
Overall 47% support
Overall 44% oppose
Democrats 74% support
Democrats 19% oppose
That’s the one I could find the quickest and he’s leading the charge, remember how proud he was they were able to stall it before the August break. Below is the link. I also don’t appreciate being called stupid.
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/21/mike-rosss-district-supports-a-public-option-mike-ross-does-not/
So, in your world, the Blue Dogs do not have to bend, but the Liberals are called stupid, if they do not bend. They are the majority of the Democrats in congress, and they were winning elections in their districts, when the Republicans were winning those Blue Dog districts.
The Liberals have every right to represent their constituents fully, just like you claim the Blue Dogs do, and furthermore, the Liberals have been the heart and soul of the party for many years.
When have the Blue Dogs ever taken the lead, when it came to calling for progressive legislation and leading the charge to get it passed?
Liberal have done all that heavy lifting.
Yeah, well stupid is as stupid does. The poll numbers you site are meaningless. When asked if they would pay a mere extra $25 a month to fight climate change (a very low number) support drops to 35%. Keep pushing and you will impose another decade of republican rule. Won’t that be fun?
Liam, In the real world (not just in mine) it takes 218 votes to hold a majority in the House. If you make it impossible for us to hold districts where people are not as liberal as you we get a republican majority. I’m not asking for the liberals to fail to represent their constituents but to simply recognize that politics is the art of the possible. They world is not as you wish it to be.
Scott A
Actually that was a public option/health care poll not climate change. Progressives need to keep pressure on the conservative dems and the White House to get the best bill we can. When the bill is done, then everyone can worry about how to vote. What kind of health care reform do you support?
Here’s another link about how much money the Blue Dogs are receiving from the health care industry. If we don’t keep the pressure on them from the left, the bill will absolutely be nothing more than a huge pay back to the industry and won’t mean a thing for the rest of us.
Obviously, I don’t want to go back to Republican rule, but we can’t give up too soon on the bill coming out of both the House and the Senate. Once a bill passes we can worry about the elections.
http://www.politicalgroove.com/politics/16942-blue-dogs-rolling-health-industry-money.html
Ooopsie, and it’s quite an oopsie for a legal site – Apparently Jane Hamsher didn’t get MSNBC’s permission to use Keith Olbermann’s special comment about public option and the Blue Dogs who oppose it in the ad that is running in Arkansas.
According to Keith.
“but we can’t give up too soon on the bill coming out of both the House and the Senate.”
I could not agree more – I’d love to just concentrate on one thing – health care reform and support for it. I wish the left would drop all other controversies until we get this passed, frankly. That’s of course not going to happen.
I WISH THEY MAKE A BILL FOR THOSE WHO DON’T HAVE IT , AND LEAVE THE ONE’S WHO DO A LONE. I KNOW WE NEED HEALTH REFORM, BUT I DON’T THINK ITS FAIR TO CHANGE THE WHOLE THING. YOU WAITE AND SEE IN 2010 HOW HIGH COST IS GOING TO GO UP, YOUR NOT GOING TO BE SO HAPPY THEN.
COST OF LIVING FOR EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE OUT OF CONTROLL. THE PRESIDENT HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN IRAQ,AFTGANSTAN,AND KATRINA COMBINE IN ( 9 MONTHS). SOME THING TO THINK ABOUT, SO WHY CHANGE EVERYTHING. I WOULD FIX IT FOR THE ONES WHO CAN’T AFFORD HEALTH CARE. BUT I WOULD DEMAND EVERYBODY HAVE IT SO I DON’T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT ANYMORE EXCEPT MY ON.
BUSH SUCK IN THE LAST 2 YRS HE SERVE. BUT IT WAS THE DEMOCRATS WHO RAN IT IN THOSE YEARS. AND DON’T FORGET PELOSI AND BARNEY FRANK AND THE DEMOCRATS WAS WARN IN 2001 ABOUT THE HOUSING MARKET GETING TO BIG FROM PRESIDENT BUSH AND SENATOR MCCAIN. THEY TOLD THEM IT NEEDED TO BE REGULATED AND THE DEMOCRATS VOTED IT DOWN, REMENBER BARNEY FRANK WAS TELLING PEOPLE IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO INVEST, THEN 2 MTHS LATER THEY COLLASP. AND I ALSO BLAME THE DUMMY WHO SPENT MORE THAN THEY COULD AFFORD. AND THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING AS WELL AS THE LENDERS.
This is quite cool … Obama appointed the first Fed CIO. He gets points for that.
… effort is being led by Vivek Kundra, the nation’s first chief information officer. Appointed in March, Kundra has already produced an impressive string of successful new projects. These include Data.gov, which provides greater access to the government’s raw data, and the Federal IT Dashboard, which tracks spending on government technology projects.
[Silicon Valley Mercury News 18 Sep 09]
Spend a few minutes here:
http://it.usaspending.gov/
For those of you not in the business, its remarkable to get something like this done this quickly.
Greg, you should hook your WP folks up to this – there are a bunch of stories here that DC area folks would find of interest.
“I WISH THEY MAKE A BILL FOR THOSE WHO DON’T HAVE IT , AND LEAVE THE ONE’S WHO DO A LONE.”
That’s what “option” means, Stephanie. Please unstick your caps key and then take several deep breaths.
If you want government run healthcare, please move to Canada. This is simply one more reason for the wellfare check collectors to continue to sit on their tails and refuse to work. Our government is making their life easier than the working class. So those of us that pull our weight and some of theirs will now have more burden. Similar to drug addiction or alcoholism, we are enabling the worthless to stay worthless.
“If you want government run healthcare, please move to Canada. This is simply one more reason for the wellfare check collectors to continue to sit on their tails and refuse to work.”
Anyone want to tell me how many things are wrong with this statement?
*sigh*
God you’re ignorant and if there is one thing I’m sick of it’s proudly ignorant people holding this country back from entering the 21st century.
http://newsy.com/videos/the_impact_of_blue_dogs Are the Blue Dogs just trying to ensure they get re-elected or do they actually have the best interests of the people they represent in mind?
Tena, the people you call ignorant (I’m sure I’m one of them) simply want to adhere to the Constitution as our founding fathers wrote it. There’s nothing in there that calls for the federal government to force people to buy health insurance, or anything else for that matter. I value the Constitution, and I think we should live by it. Or if you don’t care about the Constitution any more, then please have the courtesy to call a constitutional convention, amend it to include health insurance, and then I’ll go to some place else myself where they don’t have a nanny state, and save you the inconvenience of having to move. Until you do that, you’re simply ignoring our system as it was intended to function.
Rukidding
Got a link to the “survey” you cited?
The statists pushing gov’t run health care are not very compassionate. After all, when this is done, where will Canadians go?
The bottom line is that, if the liberals have enough votes to pass the public option on their own, over the objections of the Blue Dogs and Republicans, then they will stop talking about it and do it. And if it’s close, there will be some strenuous arm-twisting attempts, which will probabluy fail in most cases because the Blue Dogs are rightfully nervous about losing in 2010, just as the moderates in the Republican Party were swept out in 2006-2008. The GOP did a lousy job during bush’s second term, so the people rejected them. If the voters don’t like the Dems attempt to restructure health care, then a whole lot of Dems (mostly Blue Dogs) will go down to defeat.
I’m a health care professional and on reading the comments in these posts wonder where people are getting their facts. There were a couple that stand out that are blatantly wrong:
1. Most health care professionals and most doctors ARE NOT for a single payer system as it would greatly reduce their income. They would be more open to the idea if the government would take over the payment of their malpractice premiums and defend them in court. But the democrats are against that for some reason that doesn’t make sense to me.
2. I’ve looked up two poles today for Arkansas. A small majority of Arkansans are for health care REFORM. A strong majority are AGAINST the public option.
There was more, but I’m tired and going to bed. When you lie or don’t research the facts to prove your points, you lose the trust of those who might otherwise agree with you.
I live in Alabama’s 5th congressional district. If the incumbent, Parker Griffith, votes for a government takeover of health care, I guarantee that he will be gone. The opposition against him is already building and is well funded.
The Blue Dogs were elected to represent their constituents and most of their constituents dislike the health care proposals on the table. Furthermore, the constituents have good reason to dislike the proposals – ANY of the plans proposed so far will be very expensive and the voters are plenty smart enough to figure this out So the Blue Dogs are between a rock and a hard place – defy the leadership of their own party or ignore the voters who elected them. We won’t know what they’re gonna do till they actually do it. They probably don’t know themselves. Those who say Pelosi should simply tell the Blue Dogs to shape up are out of touch with reality.
It’s pretty simple, government is terribly inefficient at enything it does. The more regulation,the more overhead added to the economy and everything costs more. Less regulation INCREASES competition and INCREASES innovation which results in better prices and service. More capitalism, not less is what the insurance market needs. STIMULATE THE ECONOMY-FURLOUGH CONGRESS!
Wow, you people will feel pretty stupid if the bluedogs decide to switch parties and not wait till 2010. As Biden said, your whole agenda will be sunk! But you go ahead and turn your backs on the bluedogs and feel all smug and pleased with yourselves. Your jig is up in 2010 anyway because you cant controll yourselves!