Conrad: I Will Vote To Bring Health Care Bill To Debate, And My Colleagues Should Do Same
In another step forward for health care reform, a key moderate Dem Senator says he will vote to bring the bill with a public option and an opt-out to the floor — getting the bill past a key procedural vote — and suggested his colleagues should do the same.
Senator Kent Conrad, in a phone interview with me just now, confirmed that he would cast a vote in favor of bringing Harry Reid’s health care bill to a debate.
“Sure,” Conrad said when asked directly whether he would vote Yes on the initial procedural vote, which is a major obstacle because it requires 60 votes. “My position would be to have a debate, have amendments. Because unless you get a bill to the floor, you can’t legislate.”
Conrad had not yet said outright he’d vote Yes on the procedural vote, saying earlier this week that he wanted more information before reaching a “judgment.”
Conrad is not saying he’ll be a Yes on the final vote. But his willingness to vote to bring the bill to a debate could help persuade other moderate Dem Senators to do the same, potentially getting past a major hurdle. Indeed, asked if other moderates should vote that way, Conrad suggested they should.
“If someone is not happy with the final product they don’t have to vote for the bill,” Conrad said. “But it seems to me going to a [debate on a] bill, especially of this significance, is what we should do.”
Little by little…
***************************************
Update: In the interview, Conrad was unwilling to commit to voting against a filibuster on the second procedural vote. But this is nonetheless a step forward for reformers, because it means it’s more likely that Reid can take a bill with a public option, rather than without one, to the floor, which would be a psychological victory and give the pro-public plan forces a stronger tactical position.
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Greg,
Just to clarify… they are two important procedural votes where 60 votes are needed. One vote would start debate and the other would stop debate… is that correct? And is Conrad only agreeing to start the debate? Did he expand further on his comments that he still wants to see co-ops?
Good work!
Greg,
And don’t you think that Senator Reid got that commitment from Conrad, and probably the others who appear to be on the fence, before he went public with his version of the bill?
Will you be posing the same question to Blanche Lincoln? If she says she will not vote to bring it to the floor, you might want to throw a litlle Street Car Named Desire Reference at her; Say; So Blanche, do you always want the uninsured to depend on the kindness of strangers?
See if you can get an answer from all the usual suspects; Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, etc.
Andy — he did expand on coops but not enough to include, unfortunately.
and Liam, we are def trying to get this question to others.
Woohoo!
That leave Bayh, Landrieu, Lincoln, Nelson, Droopy Dog and Snowe.
Looks like the heat is getting to Bayh. He’s backtracking on the filibuster.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1009/Bayh_reversal_.html?showall
Andy — thanks for that. Will link.
I have a growing sense that Conrad has seen the handwriting on the wall, deciding that playing a productive role in HCR’s inevitable passage is preferable to playing that of an obstructionist.
Would that the same could be said for Little Joey Lieberman, referred to most aptly yesterday by some wag on TPM as “the Moaning Scrotum.”
Andy, as we knew he would.
CBO Numbers out on House Bill… turns out, suprise surprise, it ROCKS.
The Congressional Budget Office has just released its score of the House health care reform bill, which was unveiled this morning.
The bill will reduce the deficit by $104 billion over the first 10 years, according to the CBO. It will also cost $894 billion. (President Obama has said he won’t sign a bill that costs more than $900 billion.)
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/cbo-releases-numbers-on-house-health-care-bill.php
From the party that doesn’t like reading… this from Molly Hooper at the Hill:
The House Democratic healthcare reform bill is going to “ream” the American people, according to Energy and Commerce ranking member Joe Barton (R-Texas.)
House GOP leaders were quick to march an entire hardcopy of the Democrats’ nearly 2,000 page healthcare bill before TV cameras to denounce the measure for raising taxes, creating mandates and cutting medicare.
“Nineteen hundred and ninety pages, that¹s about four reams of paper, I can say that the people who are getting reamed are the American people,” Barton said at a press conference surrounded by fellow top-ranking House Republicans.
—–
They probably don’t want to read that the CBO just released the scoring on this bill and it will cut the deficit by $104B over ten years.
I do not know why any one expect Lieberman to ever be with us. This is the guy who addressed the Republican Convention, and campaigned for McCain. McCain wanted to put him on his ticket, but the wing nuts in his own party, forced to go with Quitter Palin instead.
I would have been shocked if Traitor Joe had actually sided with us.
Lieberman is just a miniature size version of Zell Miller.
He has been shrunk down to let him fit in AHIP’s back pocket.
Uh-oh, Gee Oh Pee: The House HCR proposal actually *REDUCES* the deficit long term!
So, let’s review…lies about death panels didn’t work, rabid town-brawling and hateful public teabagging didn’t work, lies about forcing US soldiers to commit suicide didn’t work, Oily Taintz and her birfer whack-jobs didn’t work, Glenn Becky’s on-air blubbering didn’t work….
Hmm…which fig-leaf scare tactic to employ next….
To quote the inimitable Andrew Sullivan, ‘Beep beep, muthaf-ckas!’
As a lifelong CT resident, I’m not surprised by Joe either. He’s a hypocrite who doesn’t care about representing the views of his constituents at all. Rather than be grateful that Obama allowed him to stay as head of the Homeland Security committee (and IMO, Obama should have dumped him then and there), he’s now looking to backstab the guy who beat his best buddy. Stephen Colbert said it best last night “It’s the CT for Joe party not the Joe for CT party.” When I was old enough to vote, the first vote I cast was for Ned Lamont. I look forward to voting Lieberman out of office in 3 years. I just hope he hasn’t embarrassed our state even more by then.
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/253944/october-28-2009/joe-lieberman-is-a-true-independent
Can we get anyone with a camera to go up to Joe Barton and ask him to explain what he meant by:”reamed”?
Please put him on the spot. Some reporter get on it please, and at least post his response on YouTube. Please Please Please.
Greg. Could you get your TPM pals to approach him, with that question?
Chalk this one up in the annals of Best Headlines Ever:
Sarah Palin polls like Dan Quayle
Indeed, perceptions of Palin’s qualifications are unprecedented among presidential/vice presidential nominees and major presidential contenders in recent years. From Joe Biden to George W. Bush, no one has been perceived as less qualified since Dan Quayle and Ross Perot. The Palin-Quayle parallel, which Jon Chait nailed soon after her nomination, is particularly striking. Each was a surprise VP pick who sparked initial enthusiasm but later became widely perceived as incompetent.
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/sarah_palin_polls_like_dan_qua.php
Haha. Ouch.
Liam — what’s that Barton thing a reference to? Link?
Greg, not to be a pain but if what you are saying about the second vote is true then this is *not* good news. Konrad votes for it to come to thef loor but wont commit to prevent the filibuster at the end what good is this? How is his position any better than Lieberman’s? It leaves the bill dead after debating it on the floor, the nightmare scenario that Ezra Klein (and Booman) described a few days ago. We need them to vote yes on *both* otherwise the bill with the PO dies and this puts the bill in a very very bad place.
Ethan… nice!
Greg… I posted the Barton thing. Here is the link:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/65437-top-republican-says-health-bill-will-ream-americans
lfo, Conrad saying he “won’t commit” is the oldest trick in the book. He’s just saying that in the off chance a poison pill amendment gets into the bill on the floor, or some variation thereof… lawyers… gotta parse every word.
Thx Andy, good lookin’ out on the Bayh link too. I was immediately skeptical when he made that pronouncement yesterday. Quite literally these people’s careers would be OVER if they actually voted to kill the bill. Nobody, not even the most conservative Dem wants to do that.
Oh and it doesn’t hurt that public opinion on the PO is thru the roof! (with more good news near daily at this point)
Hope you are right Ethan. Too much riding on this bill actually making it out of the Senate so the ball keeps moving forward. If it stalls…. as I said that is the nightmare scenario right there. But I am just keeping fingers crossed that Reid knows what he is doing.
Also–like someone upthread I second Greg having his former TPM colleagues cover this in a non village way full of bs speculation and blind quotes from ‘anonymous sources’
It will be interesting to read the CBO analysis. Per Politico/HotAir:
“Politico notes another problem with the bill, which is that it runs surpluses its first five years — mainly because it doesn’t pay benefits until 2013…Also, the new Pelosi bill reneges on the White House agreement with pharmaceutical manufacturers, and it also engages in the same dishonest Doctor Fix strategy that flopped so badly in the Senate:
“A permanent doc fix will be carved out of the reform bill and introduced separately today without pay-fors. …Drug makers are also getting shellacked. They’re looking at between $125 billion and $150 billion in cuts – almost twice the $80 billion they agreed to under the White House deal.”
Actually, this puts Conrad exactly where Lieberman was before Reid actually announced the bill. It was only after the announcement by Reid that the backstabbing brick bothered to mention his intention to filibuster the second vote.
On the other hand, Conrad has a lot to lose in terms of committee assignments and clout and is rational enough to believe he could lose it if he obstructs. Lieberman has narcissitic personality disorder and is incapable of believing in the possibility of adverse consequences for his actions unless there’s actually a gun stuck into his face. (Plus, it’s not like he’s ever suffered any before).
SBJ… if you want to read the CBO analysis you can get to it here: http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1009/BREAKING__CBO_estimate_out.html?showall
I know you did not say this but since you pasted it in your post I am curious as to whether you think running a surplus is a bad thing? Also, do you think ignoring a WH/Pharma deal is wrong? And can you explain what is dishonest about the doc fix strategy, which is a strategy, I think, based on the fact that this has been a problem long ignored and should not burden the current HCR.
The CBO analysis assumes “permanent reductions in the annual updates to Medicare’s payment rates…yielding budgetary savings of $229 billion over 10 years.” We know that the House will move to pass a separate fix, and we know that the Senate already voted down said fix. So it’s an imaginary savings that we both know will not materialize. Should the fix be separate? Definitely not.
The surplus occurs because most outlays are delayed until 2013.
I’d love to see the PhRMA deal exposed for what it was but I think that the absence of said deal in the House bill does not bode well for reconciliation with the Senate bill.
Greg, Happy Hour link?
Check THIS out:
Coal group, grassroots firm knew of forged letters before climate vote
Working on behalf of the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity (ACCCE), the firm Bonner & Associates has acknowledged that it sent about a dozen forged letters to three House Democrats who were seen as critical swing votes.
The head of the ACCCE also acknowledged learning of some of the forgeries the day before the vote, a discovery he said “appalled” him.
But both the firm and the coal group did nothing to inform the members or the misrepresented companies about the forged letters ahead of the vote.
Steve Miller, ACCCE’s president and CEO, said he assumed Bonner & Associates would inform the members of the phony correspondence…
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/65443-coal-group-grassroots-firm-knew-of-forgeries-before-climate-vote
Un-freaking-believable.
Um, criminal investigation much?
Even better, they LIED UNDER OATH!
During Forged Letter Investigation Hearing, Coal Industry Lies Under Oath About Its Lobbying History
ACCCE President and CEO Steve Miller lied under oath when he told the committee that his organization has never opposed clean energy legislation.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/29/accce-lies-underoath/
Greg? Happy Hour?
Greg,
I was refering to Joe Barton saying the following:
“The House Democratic healthcare reform bill is going to “ream” the American people, according to Energy and Commerce ranking member Joe Barton (R-Texas.)”
I just want someone to make him squirm on camera, by asking him to define what he meant by “reaming”. I just want to see one of those Family Values Frauds being put on the spot over his choice of words.
“On balance, during the decade following the 10-year budget window, the bill would increase both federal outlays for health care and the federal budgetary commitment to health care, relative to the amounts under current law.”
“The bill would put into effect (or leave in effect) a number of procedures that might be difficult to
maintain over a long period of time. It would leave in place the 21 percent reduction in the payment rates for physicians currently scheduled for 2010.
At the same time…increases in payment rates for many providers would be held below the rate of inflation…CBO expects that Medicare spending under the bill would increase at an average annual rate of roughly 6 percent during the next two decades—well below the roughly 8 percent annual growth rate of the past two decades, despite a growing number of Medicare beneficiaries as the baby-boom generation retires.
The long-term budgetary impact of H.R. 3962 could be quite different if those provisions generating savings were ultimately changed or not fully implemented.”
I love this from Sherrod Brown:
“Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) made some pretty interesting remarks at the Building the New Economy conference today. While the topic was manufacturing and industrial policy, Brown opened by talking about the current obsession in Washington, health care and the public option. He praised the “inside/outside” strategy of activism that eventually convinced Harry Reid to add the public option (with an opt-out clause for the states) into the bill. “We were pounding on the inside, the progressives in the Senate, and you all were writing and calling and engaging in activism from the outside, and that’s what made the difference.” Brown cited this strategy as a good one to use going forward on multiple other policy solutions. “We’re going to act like we won the election last year,” Brown said.”
Looks like we’re all going to be busy.
Afghanistan; A Cautionary Tale.
“Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.”George Santayana
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/opinion/29sebestyen.html?pagewanted=print
Excerpts; Use link to read the entire Op-Ed piece in the NY Times.
“Transcripts of Defeat
By VICTOR SEBESTYEN
London
“THE highly decorated general sat opposite his commander in chief and explained the problems his army faced fighting in the hills around Kabul: “There is no piece of land in Afghanistan that has not been occupied by one of our soldiers at some time or another,” he said. “Nevertheless much of the territory stays in the hands of the terrorists. We control the provincial centers, but we cannot maintain political control over the territory we seize.
“Our soldiers are not to blame. They’ve fought incredibly bravely in adverse conditions. But to occupy towns and villages temporarily has little value in such a vast land where the insurgents can just disappear into the hills.” He went on to request extra troops and equipment. “Without them, without a lot more men, this war will continue for a very, very long time,” he said.
These sound as if they could be the words of Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top American commander in Afghanistan, to President Obama in recent days or weeks. In fact, they were spoken by Sergei Akhromeyev, the commander of the Soviet armed forces, to the Soviet Union’s Politburo on Nov. 13, 1986.
Soviet forces were then in the seventh year of their nine-year-long Afghan conflict, and Marshal Akhromeyev, a hero of the Leningrad siege in World War II, was trying to explain why a force of nearly 110,000 well-equipped soldiers from one of the world’s two superpowers was appearing to be humiliated by bands of “terrorists,” as the Soviets often called the mujahideen.”
“The Soviets saw withdrawal as potentially fatal to their prestige in the cold war, so they became mired deeper and deeper in their failed occupation. For years, the Soviets heavily bombarded towns and villages, killing thousands of civilians and making themselves even more loathed by Afghans. Whatever tactics the Soviets adopted the result was the same: renewed aggression from their opponents. The mujahideen, for example, laid down thousands of anti-tank mines to attack Russian troop convoys, much as the Talibanare now using homemade bombs to strike at American soldiers on patrol, as well as Afghan civilians.
“About 99 percent of the battles and skirmishes that we fought in Afghanistan were won by our side,” Marshal Akhromeyev told his superiors in November 1986. “The problem is that the next morning there is the same situation as if there had been no battle. The terrorists are again in the village where they were — or we thought they were — destroyed a day or so before.” Listen to a coalition spokesman now explaining the difficulties its forces are facing in tough terrain, and it would be hard to hear a difference.”
“Mr. Gorbachev was also haunted by the image of the last Americans leaving Saigon in panic: “We cannot leave in our underpants … or without any,” he told his chief foreign policy aide, Anatoly Chernyayev, whose diaries have recently become available to scholars. Chernyayev himself called Afghanistan “our Vietnam. But worse.”
Withdrawal was a long, drawn-out agony. By the time the last troops left in February 1989, around 15,000 Soviet soldiers and 800,000 Afghans had died. “We must say that our people have not given their lives in vain,” Mr. Gorbachev told the Politburo. But even his masterful public relations skills could not mask the humiliation of defeat. Indeed, it marked the beginning of the end for the Soviet empire in Europe, as revolution swept through Eastern Europe in 1989, and of the Soviet Union itself two years later.”
sbj
Didn’t Obama say if the numbers change down the road they’ll fix it so it ramains at least deficit neutral?
SBJ…are the quotes your posting from the CBO report? If so could you site the page numbers.
on page 7 it says:
“Permanent reductions in the annual updates to Medicare’s payment
rates for most services in the fee-for-service sector (other than
physicians’ services), yielding budgetary savings of $229 billion
over 10 years.”
on page 2 :
According to CBO and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3962 would result
in a net reduction in federal budget deficits of $104 billion over the 2010–
2019 period (see Table 1). In the subsequent decade, the collective effect of
its provisions would probably be slight reductions in federal budget
deficits. Those estimates are all subject to substantial uncertainty.
Also, I am still not sure if you’re against running surpluses or not. I understand why there are surpluses, do you think running a surplus is a bad idea?
In general do you think there should be a doctor fix?
Liam… AFPAK is a lose… lose.
@lmsinca: “Didn’t Obama say if the numbers change down the road they’ll fix it so it ramains at least deficit neutral?”
I don’t know – but how can he make such a promise? It’s out of his control.
If you ask me to make a choice between running up large deficits to heal the sick, or running up large deficits to fund the killing and maiming of hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq, I choose to heal the sick.
The Right Wing Nutters were not in the least concerned with how they ran up nearly two trillion in deficits to fund their Iragmire fiasco.
Republicans calling for fiscal restrain is like Bordello Madams calling for Chaste behavior.
“SBJ…are the quotes your posting from the CBO report? If so could you site the page numbers.”
Yes and no.
“do you think running a surplus is a bad idea?”
Um, no? I suppose it depends on how you generate that surplus. I’m somewhat opposed making a bill look deficit neutral because you are scoring it during a period in which it is not fully enacted.
“on page 7 it says:
“Permanent reductions in the annual updates to Medicare’s payment
rates for most services in the fee-for-service sector (other than
physicians’ services), yielding budgetary savings of $229 billion
over 10 years.”
Yes, and those permanent reductions will be rescinded via legislation next year. Maybe this year.
SBJ… thanks for the clarifications.
The page 7 quote specifically states that the reductions are not for physicians services, so that can’t be tied to the doctor fix, correct?
Can someone please explain why this U.S. Senator can’t seem to get the facts rigt. Here is the quote with the link to follow:
MCCONNELL: Well, it doesn’t make any difference frankly whether you opt-in or you opt-out, it’s still a government plan. You know, Medicaid, the program for the poor now, states can opt-out of that, but none of them have. I think if you have any kind of government insurance program, you’re going to be stuck with it and it will lead us in the direction of the European style, you know, sort of British-style, single payer, government run system. And those systems are known for delays, denial of care and, you know, if your particular malady doesn’t fit the government regulation, you don’t get the medication.
MILLER: Right.
MCCONNELL: And it may cost you your life. I mean, we don’t want to go down that path.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/29/mcconnell-cost-life/
————
Does he know what the British run system is? Can someone please explain to him what single payer and single provider means.
“so that can’t be tied to the doctor fix, correct?”
I’m not so sure that the “doctor fix” doesn’t just generally include all the Medicare rate adjustments. Could be wrong, though.
Greg, “Little by little…”
Yup, yup. The wheels are turning slowly but surely.
Gee, just dropped in to see if the postings on Politico have changed at all with the “Obama Koolaid Gang”! Nope! Still the same liberal bullcrap! You morons haven’t a clue what this healthcare mess is going to do to the quality of healthcare in this great country of ours! Obviously you are all so enamored by the likes of your illegitimate President, Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, Kerry, Frank and Dodd that you’ll cut off your nose to spite your face! Deficit neutral my fanny! The government has no business sticking its nose into my healthcare, and you capitulating ******** will regret the day you ever put the aforementioned in office! Traitors all to the U.S. Constitution, Our founding fathers, and to all who have fought and died for the cause of freedom and liberty! Don’t Tread On Me!
None of you should be concerned with where Sen. Conrad’s vote on HCR will be. He will vote for it. He has been my Senator for ever and always will vote the Dem party line. He will come home and make excuses, etc. But at the end of the day he will not represent his state in preference to the Dem Party.
BTW, ObamaCare is NOT popular here..less than 30% support in a recent poll. Public option does not poll over 40%.
Bob from whereever you are from:
The Republicans caused 95% of this mess, maybe you should hit up Cheney, Carlson, and GWB laughing in retirement from when they looted from the US treasury for 8 years.
Boehner has a lot of room to talk as well, he appears for his fundraisers with AEP ( American electric Power)and our rates went up 7% retroactively because of a bill he had his hand in.
Yup, couldn’t agree more. And I’d like to add that you’ve got a great colour scheme on your site, I suffer with colour blindness and many webmasters don’t give us a second thought!
Voor 20 euro je auto all risk verzekeren!het kan!