Boehner Spox: It’s “Idiotic” To Cite His 2003 Vote For End Of Life Measure
John Boehner’s office really didn’t think much of our story below reporting that he voted in 2003 for an end of life measure similar to the one sparking all the “death panel” fantasizing right now. In fact, his spokesman dismissed the comparison as “idiotic.”
Here’s the response from Boehner spokesman Michael Steel to our post, which said that the 2003 Medicare prescription drug act, which Boehner and many Republicans backed, provided funding for end of life consultations, albeit for the terminally ill:
“Anyone who understands this issue would find this comparison idiotic. Hospice care is, by definition, for people who are already close to death. The Democrats’ new government takeover of health care legislation would offer this counseling to every senior on Medicare.”
Steel’s point is that the earlier legislation Boehner backed is specifically for those undergoing “hospice consultation services” and are terminally ill, while the more recent legislation funds all end of life consultation. That’s true — and the later bill does contain other various provisions that the earlier one didn’t.
But the core objection many Republicans are making to the current bill is to the general concept of Federally funded end of life consultations, because Republicans say they risk veering into discussions of euthanasia. The objection is that government money shouldn’t be funding any conversations about artifically ending one’s life.
It’s not even clear that this would happen. But if it did, and if you opposed Federally-funded conversations about ending a patient’s life, it’s unclear why you’d be okay with them if the patient were terminally ill.
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Told ya.
Uhmm for Boehner it just doesn’t wash because the 2003 measure was about people who were already terminal. If there was ever a group that might be targeted for euthanasia its those who are already deemed terminal. He doesn’t want to address it of course but it is what it is.
By the way, shorter Boehner Spox:
“IOKIYAR dammit!”
sg – there ya go = now you got it. LOL!
Boehner is such a dumba$$. Does he paint that tan on or does he have a tanning bed in his office, like Sarah Palin?
Yet Republicans have no qualms about using federal money to fund endless war that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of premature deaths. Their argument that they are against using federal funds for end of life activities is bogus. What they are against is using federal funds here at home especially when a Democrat is in charge.
Their next argument naturally will be defining what terminally ill actually means and how God would react in such situations.
uh Boehner you don’t understand they don’t get it nor do they want to. You are correct hospice is END of LIFE, senior counseling at age 65 just because is not. And so what is you were for it before you were against it, that’s typical DC politics. I wish that was the only damage you buffons did.
Plus don’t sweat it look at all the joy the progressives are getting out of the new found tidbit they can run it in the ground for a year to along with their palin attacks to deflect from the CBO report and the fact that none of the bills address real reform just like the stimulus bill.
–
Anyone who understands this issue would find this comparison idiotic. Hospice care is, by definition, for people who are already close to death. The Democrats’ new government takeover of health care legislation would offer this counseling to every senior on Medicare.”
lol define terminally ill. Are you daft? Do you know anyone that goes in to hospice care for anything other than to die comfortably?
goodness!
The true reason why John Boehner and Sarah Palin maintain perpetual deep tans.
They are trying to fool the general public into thinking that the Republican party has doubled the number of people of color in their party.
If Boehner doesn’t lay off the tanning machine, he may be facing this problem sooner than he probably realizes.
# yippie | August 14th, 2009 at 04:26 pm
lol define terminally ill. Are you daft? Do you know anyone that goes in to hospice care for anything other than to die comfortably?
goodness!
…………………………
Well according to Bill Frist, George Bush, and most of your right wing heroes, Terri Schiavo was in a hospice for just a prolonged R&R visit.
Liam
BURNNNNNNNNNNNN LOL Good one.
@tena, sgwhite, liam, schrodinger, etc….
A. don’t you ever get tired of typing all day long?
B. between this site and the 5 others you all type on, do you ever really verbally communicate with people?
C. Do you have jobs…don’t tell me what you do, but do you have a job or is this your job?
“They are trying to fool the general public into thinking that the Republican party has doubled the number of people of color in their party.”
And then Teri Schiavo – O Liam you are on such a roll.
LOL!!
@ yippie/yupppie, I didn’t say define terminally ill. I said the next argument from the GOP would be one that seeks to define it according to God’s will. As I’m sure you know, the GOP was founded at the bequest of God’s will.
oh the war thing again! Obama has spent more already that all wars total in the US and the dumbos have taken the US in to more wars than the repubs. and more Americans have died at war under the Dems.
Now how do you let Murtha in the DNC he is the biggest profiteer off of war mongering than any one the hill.
man you people are so out of touch put the kool aid down.
here’s your spoonfeed information
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/american-wars.html
@Joe Sixpack:
What five others? There may be someone else with my same screen name but I rarely post other than here and at TPM.
@ joe, I have a great job. Tell me, aren’t you on craigslist as well? Hey send us over a pic of that six pack of yours.
JoeSixPack
We are just here for your amusement buddy. And no we aren’t going anywhere. Get used to it.
“C. Do you have jobs…don’t tell me what you do, but do you have a job or is this your job?”
And you’d know this because – you’re here and at those other sites all day?
No I don’t have a job. I retired. Early. I don’t have to work. I can do any damn thing I want to. And I do.
I am in my summer home – in Taos, New Mexico. It’s raining.
This is what I feel like doing. So I do it.
I love the concept of Boehner getting p***ed off at the idea that someone might twist what he voted for in 2003 into “Death Panels”.
It’s shocking he can tan at all with that thick cloud of IRONY hanging over him…
What a pathetic, hypocritical piece of s***.
so defensive…must have been the verbal communication part. Keep writing your thoughts on all your blogs and keep wishing that someday you’ll get to be Greg. You have to get traffic at your blogs first and get people to comment.
Keep up the h/t TPM…they may just ask you to work for them.
chris nice try, silly answer that is just a deflection. but a hospice is a place to go die. Being 65yo and healthy is not terminally ill and I don’t need the government to mandate my end of life counseling even if I was at the end of life.
I don’t know how my grandfather did it all by himself he had a DNR order on his fireplace for when his time came all without the government mandating it.
Give people the credit due they deserve and stop insisting that the government is the only one that can take care of folks.
they suck at it if they did not then why have they created generations of families who’s only career is welfare? Why has public education failed to educate? How can you people say this **** with a straight face. Show me one entitlement program that is not a failure and drain on the tax payers?
Nice try Bozo! But, the Republican hypocricy continues! I don’t see any difference!
This would make a very good TV ad to lists the names of the republican’s who voted for the concept in 2003. You can then ask why wait until you’re hospice bound to make these decision, wouldn’t you whether make them while you’re not on deaths doorstep.
“Give people the credit due they deserve and stop insisting that the government is the only one that can take care of folks.”
So you want to get rid of: social security, medicare, the 40 hour work week, federal holidays, the interstate highway system, the post office, the military – let’s see – why not skip the doctors, too, and just do surgery on ourselves?
Now we have the guy with the Faux Blue Collar name doing more opposition research. He wonders what you all do, while he reveals that all he does is scour other websites to keep track off you. He has just told you what his job is, as if we did not already no. When they try to pass as Blue Collar types, then you know that is the last thing they are.
Liam again you are making a fool of yourself by claiming to know who my hero’s are and also how I felt about Terry Shavio and government intrusion in a family matter. No politician is my hero unlike you obama worshippers that get freakin chills up your legs! lol And I detest the fact the our government got involved in the Shavio case.
You really are a lamebrain but continue to claim you know who my hero’s are and how I feel about things when you don’t even know who the heck I am but yours and others desperate attempts to pigeonhole anyone that doesn’t lockstep with your views into the GOP is just too much fun to watch. It amazes me the supposed elite DNC folks are such kool aide drinking lamebrains.
@liam
oh liam, stop being so paranoid. I guess when you don’t actually talk to people you start turning into Mel Gibson from Conspiracy Theory. I hereby grant you a new user name of MelG…enjoy Liam.
@ yippie/yuppie, silly answer? I never said anything about us defining terminally ill. Wow.
“I don’t need the government to mandate my end of life counseling even if I was at the end of life.”
The government would not mandate it. It would fund the counseling for those accepting the public option plan. Just like how your tax dollars pays for your Republican member of congress to have end of life counseling, it would also fund it others.
“You can then ask why wait until you’re hospice bound to make these ”
My hope is that people like me who have been in these situations can clearly see how stupid this whole thing is. Anyone like me who has taken care of their aging parents knows how bloody stupid this is.
Tena | August 14th, 2009 at 04:52 pm
“Give people the credit due they deserve and stop insisting that the government is the only one that can take care of folks.”
So you want to get rid of: social security, medicare, the 40 hour work week, federal holidays, the interstate highway system, the post office, the military – let’s see – why not skip the doctors, too, and just do surgery on ourselves?
—-
HUH? How on earth you came to the conclusion you did from my statement is the 8th wonder of the world.
Now I would like my social security $$ out of the hands of government that is nothing more that a bigger ponzi scheme than maddox could ever dream of. It would not be close to bankruptcy if the politicians keep their greedy hands off of it!
But those who have paid into it and are currently retired deserve the benefits they were told they could have when it was taken out of their paychecks.
Where you came up with the rest of your gibberish only you know.
Come on I expect more out of a gal that snagged her a lawyer and the good life!!
@ yippie/yuppie, if Republicans are so against funding end of life counseling, why don’t they vote it away for themselves? They enjoy the greatest universal system in the world, totally funded by tax payers that entirely funds end of life counseling. Aren’t you against that too?
@yippie:
“Being 65yo and healthy is not terminally ill and I don’t need the government to mandate my end of life counseling even if I was at the end of life.”
1) There’s nothing mandated.
2) Creating a living will to say what you want done SHOULD you become terminally ill isn’t a bad thing.
3) I genuinely both envy and feel sorry for you.
Ignorance is bliss – so honestly there’s a part of me wishes I could live in a world where I could just believe whatever crack-pot bull**** I was spoon fed ( though I’d be scared that in a moment of clarity I might shoot myself for being such a moron). But on the flip side, you, as a human being, are very sad…and deserving my pity.
So, go on living in your dreamworld. We’ll keep making it a better place, and taking care of you. Even if you don’t appreciate it, an refuse to admit when we’re right.
Have a good day!
OMG! Rachel did it!
photo
Rachel Maddow wins:
“Dick Armey is quitting — b/c Rachel Maddow has kicked his behind:
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-Texas) is resigning from DLA Piper law firm amid a wave of negative attention his grassroots organization, Freedom Works, has drawn for helping to organize protesters at health care town hall meetings with members of Congress.
In an interview with POLITCO Armey said that he was concerned about the media scrutiny the health care protests were drawing to the firm he has been associated with since retiring from Congress.”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/14/766916/-The-Dick-Armey-is-Taking-His-Ball-HomeThank-you-Rachel!
chris yeah right they did not just put that in there to be ignore. So tell me if this plan is so great why are the dems voting against being included in this great plan?? If it is such a great plan and will save american why are they refusing to be a part of it.
doesn’t that even give you guys a clue as to how incompetent they know they are when it comes to the legislation they pass.
Dick Army got beat up by a girl.
HA!
chris I think that our elected officials are overpaid and have too many benefits all of them. how do you like them apples.
now answer me why are the DNC excluding themselves from this great public option?
that is the real question you avoid over and over again. I have to give it to you one day you just might make a mountain out of that molehill!
Now answer my question if you dare!
O yippie – I really really really want the government to give you back your social security money and let you invest it yourself.
I really do.
@tpm gang
Do I hear boycott? Go get him…how dare he do this!
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8322658&page=1
Not anyone else’s and certainly, having watched a really nice portfolio lose value steadily – not mine. I want it in the government’s hands, thank you.
@ yippie/yuppie, show me where dems have voted against being included??? Show me. The truth is, members of congress already have a public plan. Their entire health care is funded by tax payers. It’s a universal system that pays throughout a lifetime for the members and spouse.
Members of Congress are not voting themselves out of the public option. The only way they could is if they voted their entire health care plan out of existence, which they won’t do because it’s the best plan in the world.
If Republicans are so against a public option, then why do they partake in it? Wouldn’t someone who is genuinely opposed to it not accept it for themselves?
hey BBQ keep your pity you will need it when reality smakes you in the face.
what a bunch of babies you claim the most important thing is insuring all that can’t afford it then you cry like a little biotch that end of life counseling was dropped.
pity yourself!
“Dick Army got beat up by a girl.
HA!”
Can’t be said too much either. God I love it.
JoeSixpack | August 14th, 2009 at 04:56 pm
@liam
oh liam, stop being so paranoid. I guess when you don’t actually talk to people you start turning into Mel Gibson from Conspiracy Theory. I hereby grant you a new user name of MelG…enjoy Liam
…………………………
Could you possible be a bigger imbecile. You tell people that you have been tracking them across the web, and now you try to weasel out of that statement, that you made about your own behavior.
You remind me of the Moron who goes into the men’s bathroom, and says to a coworker:
“you must never work, because ever time I am in here, you are too”.
@liam
that comment came off pretty easy…you must use it often, especially as that’s the only time you actually talk to humans…in the bathroom.
@liam
some day, tell me your secret…do you have multiple windows session open at tpm, dailykos, huffpo, nytimes, dnc, & iworshipbarackobama….or do you use the tab system?
my guess is that sbj asked his crazy friends yippie, sixpack and hippo to come over here and bring the crazy so that (s)he would look relatively sane in comparison.
.
trouble is that most readers here have a working substantive understanding of the legislation regarding healthcare/insurance reform, which just makes the crazies that much more unhinged.
.
In fact, after live-streaming the Montana townhall today and seeing the NRA guy get a nice pat on the head from our President I realized that what makes the crazies like sixpack and hippo and yippie absolutely bonkers is the fact that we now have a President that not only knows this stuff cold, but isn’t freaked out by their crazy.
“you must never work, because ever time I am in here, you are too”.
[fallingoutofthechairsidewayslaughing]
“In fact, after live-streaming the Montana townhall today and seeing the NRA guy get a nice pat on the head from our President I realized that what makes the crazies like sixpack and hippo and yippie absolutely bonkers is the fact that we now have a President that not only knows this stuff cold, but isn’t freaked out by their crazy.”
You’re right. He really has taken some whopping chances doing that, but it just totally deflates the right.
here you go read it and weep you koolaid uniformed fools!stop focusing on palin and your stupid tits for tats and you just might learn something.
I have told you folks before I can back up what I say! now go cry in your beer!
Their Own Medicine
Senators prefer the insurance they have.
In the health debate, liberals sing Hari Krishnas to the “public option” — a new federal insurance program like Medicare — but if it’s good enough for the middle class, then surely it’s good enough for the political class too? As it happens, more than a few Democrats disagree.
On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a two-page amendment courtesy of Republican Tom Coburn that would require all Members and their staffs to enroll in any new government-run health plan. Yet all Democrats — with the exceptions of acting chairman Chris Dodd, Barbara Mikulski and Ted Kennedy via proxy — voted nay.
In other words, Sherrod Brown and Sheldon Whitehouse won’t themselves join a plan that “will offer benefits that are as good as those available through private insurance plans — or better,” as the Ohio and Rhode Island liberals put it in a recent op-ed. And even a self-described socialist like Vermont’s Bernie Sanders, who supports a government-only system, wouldn’t sign himself up.
Of course, they also qualify now for generous Congressional coverage. Most Americans won’t have the same choice. Some will be transferred to the new entitlement as it uses its taxpayer bankroll to dominate insurance markets. Others work for businesses that will find it easier to dump their policies and move employees to the federal rolls. Democrats also know that the public option will try to control health spending by squeezing payments made to doctors and hospitals, and by not paying for treatments that Washington decides are too expensive, which will result in inferior care.
No doubt Mr. Dodd acceded to the Coburn amendment to blunt such objections, and in any case he’ll strip it out later in some backroom. Judd Gregg was the only GOP Senator to oppose it, on humanitarian grounds. As he told us in an interview, the public option “will be so bad that I don’t think anyone should be forced to join.”
online.wsj.com/article/SB124786946165760369.html
oh boy ajax go scub my floors. I am a loner and have no clue who those other folks are just like I have no idea who any of the locals on this board are.
man people stick to facts and stop making bs up and you wonder why cow manure is what folks want to send to DC that is all they give us and like a good little follower you repeat it.
“my guess is that sbj asked his crazy friends yippie, sixpack and hippo to come over here and bring the crazy so that (s)he would look relatively sane in comparison.”
Don’t drag me into this foolishness!
@chris: There is no public insurance option available to congress. They choose from a range of private plans. That’s rather the point.
@ yippie/yuppie, the Fox News/WSJ story is totally muddying the waters. Senators prefer the insurance they have because the insurance they have is a public option.
Voting against the amendment does not exclude them from the plan. They already have the plan. Their insurance plan is entirely funded by me and you. It’s a universal coverage system. Voting for or against that amendment would not have done anything. Because guess what?? Even by voting against it, members still have the public option. Or had it not passed, they would still have the public option.
Easily said, members prefer the plan they have because the plan they have is a publicly financed plan. I’ll ask again, wouldn’t someone who is genuinely against the public option not partake in it themselves?
I never knew why, but it’s always been a standard troll tactic to attack board regulars for being regulars.
I never got that – for the simple reason that as has been pointed out and ignored – the only way you’d know how often someone is online is if you’re online all the time.
oh so now I am a crazy! Well tell me why those 11 dumbos did not vote for their own great plan that you know so much?
I now am convinced that all the attacks from the left are really self project of theirselves!
you call others liars while you lie, you call others crazy when you are in fact the crazy one thinking government is your answer! how were you able to move out of mama’s house did government help you are do you still live there?
I will wear crazy with honor coming from the terminally insane!
@sbj, but their plan is financed by tax dollars. What they pay into the plan is tax money. It is a publicly funded plan whether or not they choose from a range of plans. Whatever they choose is tax payer funded.
@chris: Quit while you’re behind. I don’t believe you understand what a public option is. Members of congress choose from a huge list of private plans.
Tena just ignore that carp who cares how many places people post or how long you post on a particular board.
All those comments are is to get your goat and it appears to be working.
I think if the locals here would be a bit more tolerant then you might not get the types of comments you do. See I don’t care what ya’ll spew at me it’s just words, I can back mine up so being called an idiot or crazy shows me the person has nothing else but insults. Now if they can back up what they say and throw a few insults in that’s my kind of folk!
oh gee the party of tolerance being untolerant!
@ sbj, I’m not behind. Their salaries are tax payer funded. The insurance plan they choose will also be tax payer funded because it comes from their salaries.
“@ yippie/yuppie, the Fox News/WSJ story is totally muddying the waters. Senators prefer the insurance they have because the insurance they have is a public option.”
[fallingoutofchairagainonothersidethistimelaughing]
Stop – y’all are killing me here. Did someone just send the Trolls in to be straight men today?
LOLOLOLOL!!
chris stop making excuse for the D’s that won’t even take the same carp they want to force onto the Americans.They aren’t stupid and know there bill is carp they won’t let you know that but they slipped this time by purposely excluding themselves.
# yippie | August 14th, 2009 at 04:53 pm
Liam again you are making a fool of yourself by claiming to know who my hero’s are and also how I felt about Terry Shavio and government intrusion in a family matter. No politician is my hero unlike you obama worshippers that get freakin chills up your legs! lol And I detest the fact the our government got involved in the Shavio case.
You really are a lamebrain but continue to claim you know who my hero’s are and how I feel about things when you don’t even know who the heck I am but yours and others desperate attempts to pigeonhole anyone that doesn’t lockstep with your views into the GOP is just too much fun to watch. It amazes me the supposed elite DNC folks are such kool aide drinking lamebrains.
…………………………
All your attacks and name calling are against Obama and Liberals. You post nothing but excuses and spin on what Republicans have said and done.
You never did answer the question, that another poster asked you, about what you think of Sarah Palin’s intelligence level.
You are not fooling anyone, with your pretended neutrality claim.
You are just another one of those stealth Right Wing Arse Trolls, that think that they can fool people into thinking that you are impartial.
You are just another foot soldier in the Republican Dick Armey. My condolences to you. Your Dick Armey just got routed by just one woman with truth on her side.
Adios Arse Troll.
@chris: No one is arguing about who pays a congressman’s salary? Do you understand the difference between a government-run insurance plan and a private insurance plan?
@ yippie/yuppie, it’s not an excuse. They prefer their plan because their plan is tax payer funded. You know it, just admit. What is carp are people who vote Republican and then claim they are against tax payer funded insurance.
The goat that has gotten got is the one that is laughing at y’all, ya silly!
Y’all are too much fun – you’re too damn easy.
tena just keep believing that if you want to ignore the truth then go for it.
I can’t vote myself out of the public option and if I change jobs or my insurance changes bam I am on the public option and it’s not the same as what the taxpayers pay for the elite snobs in DC.
You can claim fox/wsj but this vote is official and documented in the Senate.
don’t you get sick of having sand in your mouth when you pull your head out of the sand for air?
@chris: You are totally confused, dude. Even McCain proposed using federal money to help folks buy private insurance. That’s not a public option.
Happy to entertain you with facts anytime!
Hopefully they will replace some of that air you have inside that noggin.
@chris yes it is an excuse you can sugar coat it any way you want it. if it was a good plan they would jump on it but it is not and they would never give up their elite plan in exchange for what they are trying to force on Americans.
TTFN
liam if I was a repug foot solider I would tell you.
But I don’t like lies or liars unlike you!
# yippie | August 14th, 2009 at 05:46 pm
liam if I was a repug foot solider I would tell you.
But I don’t like lies or liars unlike you!
………………………
You still reserve all your attacks for the President, and Democrats, and all your defenses have been for Republicans.
You still are ducking the Palin question.
See how easy it is to expose you as a Republican Trojan Horse Arse Troll!!!
Trolls always have some sort of “truth” nobody else can see. I think it’s actually an epidemic on the right – like mass ergot poisoning hallucinations.
@ yippie/yuppie, it’s the same plan. Both are funded by tax dollars. Different providers? Maybe. But both are funded by tax dollars. What part of the plan do you oppose then? The tax payer funded part or the private vs. public provider part?
@ sbj, same thing. I’m not confused. Just because it’s private providers doesn’t make it any different. They are publicly funded. So what part do you oppose? The funding part or the private vs. public provider part?
Members enjoy an entirely funded tax payer insurance system. Something tells me you and yuppie would still be against a public option even if it funded private carriers.
Trolls have a tendency to pop up on a site and start insulting everyone. If they’re trying to change minds, it doesn’t work. I especially love when they spout that we’re followers, when they’re following the Rush/Fox script to a tee.
@chris: You appear to be completely missing the point of those who are opposed to a public option. You obviously have not even bothered to try to understand what a public option is or why some are opposed to it.
Kathleen – as David Ehrenstein used to say over and over back in the day: Projection!
It’s almost boring now to bring it up. But that’s their entire oeuvre.
@ sbj, if I’m so confused, answer my question. What part do you oppose? The funding part or the private vs. public provider part? Either way, members of Congress enjoy a completely funded tax payer system.
This from a guy who doesn’t know what credo means. You’re real credible sbj. Isn’t it time for a movie quote??
“members of Congress enjoy a completely funded tax payer system.”
And so do hundreds of thousands of federal employees, as do seniors and the poor. I’m not here to educate you – you’re arguing about something you don’t understand. Let’s talk after you’ve read up a bit about private insurance versus public payer option. Please make an attempt to educate yourself about the other side’s arguments. Lord knows that I am wrong some of the time, but at least I try to read and understand.
Everyone– I love how we are at a point in our national debate directed by SBJ, the self-described “Libertarian,” where a publicly funded insurance plan is not a “public option.” Of course it is. If not, then publicly funding a private carrier is still federal dollars going toward paying for someone’s health care. And how is a public option any different than public funds going to a public carrier just like Medicare and Medicaid or the VA?
“where a publicly funded insurance plan is not a “public option.” Of course it is. ”
If it makes sbj happy, call it “single payer.”
@ sbj, and you still didn’t answer my question. You are right on one thing, however. Thousands of federal employees do enjoy the same publicly funded system. I’m not denying that. Many of those thousands of federal employees are Republicans as well. It’s still a completely funded tax payer system is it not?
Again, what part do you oppose, the funding part or the private vs. public provider part? Either way, members of Congress enjoy a completely funded tax payer system.
You are the one who needs to read up, not me. You couldn’t educate me if you wanted to. What does credo mean again sbj???
@ tena, oh no, you just blew this up entirely hahahahha
You know there’s an ad on the right for at home palliative nursing care for terminally ill people. In Toronto.
Of course we can’t that here because that’s all part of the “death panel” plan. And if anything was ever needed, that’s it, in this totally death-averse, refuse to talk about or face the fact that we all die, society.
@ tena, I know, I love it. No matter what you call it, public option, single payer, private carrier, public carrier, what part of this whole thing do they oppose? The publicly funded part or the private vs. public provider part?
If they are against the funding part, then why do they vote for Republican congressmen who entirely enjoy a publicly funded system?
If they are against the private provider vs. public provider, then what about Medicaid, Medicare and the VA? It doesn’t matter to them, they won’t answer the question and instead want to call names and tell me to go read up. Sure thing.
@chris – seriously, read up. You aren’t making sense. Private insurers oppose the public option because (they feel) it will eventually drive them out of business. If the fed govt simply gives everyone tax money (tax breaks/credits/rebates) to buy private insurance then the private insurers will be sitting pretty. This is all entirely separate from the issue about who provides health care – No one supports a system where the fed govt provides all health care.
@ sbj, oh my. Seriously what does that have to do with anything?? Of course private insurers oppose the “public option” but support the public option of government paying people to go buy private carriers. Of course they do. What does that have to do with any of this?
The point is members of Congress entirely enjoy a completely tax payer funded system. So what part of that do you oppose? The publicly funded part or the part about public providers vs. private providers??
I’m done banging my head against a wall.
I don’t oppose any part of congress using taxpayer money to purchase private insurance. I don’t oppose Medicare or VA hospitals or private hospitals. I don’t understand your question!
@ sbj, you can’t do it, I totally understand. You just can’t bring yourself to answer the question. Because you know there is no good way for a Republican to explain why they oppose publicly funded health care plans but vote for people who entirely enjoy a publicly funded health care plan. Maybe next time sbj? Maybe next time.
@ sbj, oh now don’t play dumb now. You just got finished telling me how smart you are and how you don’t have time to educate me. You entirely understand the question. And now I see you have answered it. You don’t oppose tax payer funded health care as long as it goes to private business. It wasn’t that hard now was it.
There is something that seems so right to read Boehner and Idiotic in the same headline.
Dude – congress purchases private insurance with public money. That’s not the public option.
?????
Maybe someone else here can explain the difference.
@ sbj, you also don’t oppose public systems either like Medicare and the VA. Interesting, you are for both. Glad to see that.
@ sbj, it’s not the “public option” but still a public option. It’s still tax payer money going to pay for health care, and you just said you don’t oppose government run programs either like Medicare and the VA. You aren’t against either, so you say. So I have no idea what you talking about or what you are accusing me of. You support tax payer money going in all directions, so tell me again what is it you need to educate me on??
I just want to make a record right here for all to see that SBJ does indeed support both tax payer money going to private plans and tax payer money going to public providers. Aug. 14, 2009, it is so noted.
@chris: Ask your mommy or maybe grandma about Medicare – they might be able to explain to you how it works. I am opposed to the public option without proper controls to insure that it does not destroy the private health insurance industry.
@ sbj, my grandparents are all dead. My mom is 50.
If private insurers can’t compete, doesn’t capitalism tell us they will fold?
But government funded systems like the USPS hasn’t folded private providers. Isn’t creating more competition the basis of capitalism? You aren’t arguing against capitalism are you?
@chris: Please find someone else who can explain how Medicare wroks.
The USPS is a very poor example – it would be out of business if not for govt support. It often operates at a loss. Private carriers do NOT compete equally on all levels with the USPS. This example by Obama the other day was a screw-up!
@ sbj, loss or not, the post office hasn’t put private business out of business right? I think it’s a perfect example of how government provided services do not collapse private industry. Social Security didn’t collapse private investment firms did it? Sounds to me you are arguing against the very basis of capitalism, competition.
@chris: You’ve got it backwards. Obama said that the USPS wss the business that was screwed up while Fed Ex et al were doing great. The USPS does NOT compete with these firms. It needs govt help to stay afloat. You are arguing that we should have a public option because it will costs us a ton of money and not be run as well as private insurance.
@ sbj, PBS didn’t put private network television out of business did it? They’ve seemed to thrive with government funded operations right in their backyard. The glory of it all is, just like the “public option,” people have a choice if they want government supplied health care or television or postal service, or if they want private providers.
I really can’t think of an example of government not increasing private competition for the better. I mean heck, who watches PBS?
@ sbj, no I’m not backwards. I said the USPS was a perfect example of government not collapsing private industry. I have no clue what Obama said.
You said you were against a “public option without proper controls to insure that it does not destroy the private health insurance industry.” USPS is just one example that government doesn’t destroy private providers.
@Chris-TheFold:
And, totally off topic…what’s powering your blog? Is that a wordpress theme? It’s a decent setup.
@ BBQ, it’s actually a wordpress theme converted to blogger. I got it from falcolnhive.com
I use blogger because it’s easy. I’m not the best coder in the world so blogger does the hard work for me.
@ sbj and everyone…nice discussion sbj, I will give you that. I think it proves the whole “basic sanity” equation very well. Very good summation here.
sbj argues in good faith, mostly.
Not a troll – let’s put it that way.
IT’S TIME TO STOP THE INSULTS AND PUT AN END TO THE POLITICAL MISCHIEF
It is not idiotic to reference Representative Boehner and Senator Grassley’s vote of approval for the MEDICARE PRESCRIPTION DRUG, IMPROVEMENT, AND MODERNIZATION ACT OF 2003 Act as proof of their prior understanding and endorsement of the widely accepted Advance Planning-End-of-Life Care practice, especially in consideration of the fact that, contrary to Michael Steele’s recollection, the wording of Section 512 points out that coverage extends to those individuals who have NOT elected to have hospice care. Furthermore, the wording of Section 513 leaves no opportunity for ambiguity; it expresses with clarity the two distinct roles of counselling for End-of-Life issues and care options and Advance Care Planning.
“Coverage of certain physician’s services for certain terminally ill individuals would be authorized. Persons entitled to these services would be individuals who have not elected the hospice benefit and have not previously received these physician’s services. The covered services are: evaluating the beneficiary’s need for pain and symptom management, including the individual’s need for hospice care; counseling the beneficiary with respect to End-of-life issues and care options, and advising the beneficiary regarding Advanced Care Planning.”
Republican Senator Johnny Erikson, of Georgia, recently explained to Ezra Klein of the Washington Post, that Advance Care Planning is quite unlikely to lead to euthanasia, since most doctors already discuss End-of-Life care options with their patients ahead of illness and while still able to engage fully in discussions and decisions. It is a practice which benefits both the patient and their family. Section 1233 of the proposed HR3200 now permits the physician to be paid for the time he dedicates to the consultation and coverage extends to one consultation every 5 years, should the patient wish, or more frequently in the case of deteriorating health. Those are the only differences.
“The most money spent on anyone’s health care is spent usually in the last 60 days of life and that’s because an individual is not in a capacity to make decisions for themselves. If everyone had an end-of-life directive, you could instruct at a time of sound mind and body what you want to happen in an event where you were in difficult circumstances where you’re unable to make those decisions.
All 50 states now have either durable powers of attorney or end-of-life directives.
Representative Boehner and Senator Grassley may not have read the 2003 Bill, hence why they have no recollection. Nonetheless, a formal apology to President Obama from Representative Boehner, Senator Grassley and Governor Palin should be extended, since all three had prior direct involvement with Advance Care Planning (and Gov Palin only one year ago in Alaska) and their unwarranted attacks on President Obama’s personal ethics were egregious and personally damaging. It is important now to clear up and dispel any residual fear, negativity or confusion among the elderly, arising from the widespread publicity and endless public discussions of Obama’s death panels, even after they’d been repeatedly factchecked and discredited.
Whatever prior Republican objections were re federal funding of End-of-Life Care consultations veering into assisted suicide, it is truly time for Representative Boehner and Michael Steele to STOP THE INSULTS AND END THE POLITICAL MISCHIEF. How low will these Republicans stoop to avoid taking responsibility and to have the last word? Assisted suicide is illegal in 48 US States – Michael Steele and Representative Boehner would like to additionally insult the ethics of the American medical profession, insinuating that our doctors are murderous devils who, just because Advance Care consultations would now be paid, would terminate the very lives they’d been dedicated to healing and prolonging. Have you no shame?