Axelrod: People Don’t Care About AIG Mess
Come on, guys, can’t we get the message straight on this one?
Yesterday I noted that Rahm Emanuel had said that Obama saw the AIG fiasco as a “big distraction” from efforts to fix the economy. Later in the day, Obama walked that back, asserting that the public was right to be “angry” about the whole mess and right to find it “consuming.”
Today, another senior Obama adviser, David Axelrod, is throwing in his lot with Rahm and the AIG-isn’t-a-huge-deal camp:
“People are not sitting around their kitchen tables thinking about AIG,” Axelrod said. “They are thinking about their own jobs.”
So are people upset about this, or aren’t they? Actually, people are thinking about the AIG disaster. Yesterday’s Gallup poll found that a big majority is very upset about it. Only 11% said they are “not particularly bothered” by it.
Again, this just seems weird politically. Why pretend that folks aren’t pissed off about this at a time when Republicans are moving aggressively to paint Obama as too passive on the issue and position themselves as the outraged and heroic defenders of the taxpapers?
Update: David Kurtz says: “I honestly don’t get what up-side they see politically in taking this tack.” He suggests that it’s “tone deaf.” Agreed on both counts.
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I don’t think people are really angry – If they are it’s directed at the AIG fat cats, not the Obama Administration. I think this is a media driven frenzy. However that it also plays into Obama’s hands when he tries to pass regulations and form a regulation body, because he can tap this outrage. I think the GOP really shot themselves in the foot on this one, trying to win the day and score cheap political points by putting the screws to Geithner and Obama, but really painted themselves into a corner down the line.
I mean you have Republican leadership demonizing executive pay, calling for them to give the money back. Now you have a vote today in the House that will tax any earnings over $250K at 90% for companies who received TARP money. Does the GOP vote for that? And if they don’t how will they explain their outrage the past few days?
Rush Limbaugh is actually right – the Republican outrage on this issue is completely against GOP principles. This of the quotes the White House can pull from this week to throw back in the face of Cantor, McConnell, Boehner and the rest when this issue has ran out of steam, but Obama is pushing new regulations that they’re balking at.
I’d say they are trying to calm the mob mentality taking affect. They don’t want to entice a riot by calling people to the streets in protest. I’d say that’s the last thing a president wants.
Greg, I’m going to just be brutally honest here – this is your fault. Yours and the other bloggers and the MSM. Y’all have stirred this up and kept it going.
I’ve had it. All the complaining about Geithner comes from two directions – the far left and the Republicans. That tells ME Geithner is doing something right.
If the MSM hadn’t thrown a fit about AIG bonuses, the situation could have been explained. I’ve said this 50 times now and it’s getting old, but there were contracts and the government has NO power to force parties to a valid contract to breach that agreement.
I believe that AIG would have been bound to sue on behalf of their shareholders if that had happened, because AIG would have been sued over breach of contract. Then the entire thing would have gone to court for years.
Obama is smarter than most of us – that means you, Greg, and that means the rest of the MSM and that means the rest of the commenters on boards who are all jumpedup over nothing.
This is stupid. Y’all are making things worse.
What is this, the bubble at Internet speed? I can’t believe it. I may be calming down, but that doesn’t mean I’m not angry and skeptical about any more money going to line the pockets of these guys, especially anyone associated with AIG or Goldman. They’re all in bed together, they all need to be made wholier than thou, and I’m sick of it.
I dunno, Tena. People are legitimately angry about the AIG thing. Obama himself said this. My question here is why his own advisers are contradicting his message. It seems like doing this helps the opposition.
“People are not sitting around their kitchen tables thinking about AIG”
wow. just clueless. (like Tena)
The only defensible argument I’ve seen against the furor over this, is that it’s minute compared to the billions of dollars disappearing through TARP, etc.
Here’s the thing (in my opinion), people are sitting around their kitchen tables worrying about their jobs and they’re blaming AIG and all the other real estate bubble ‘masters of the universe’ for putting their jobs at risk.
If Axelrod doesn’t see that AIG is just the poster boy for the entire broken, unregulated financial services system that allowed extended adolescents to play with my kid’s future, like they were betting on 00 at a roulette table then they really don’t get it.
At this point AIG is just a metaphor for the whole industry, the american people aren’t any more mad at AIG then they are at CNBC, Lehman, Bear, Santelli and all the fat cats who sat on all the boards of all these companies and demanded 30% profit yearly, and all the sycophants that carried their water on TV every day using innuendo, television and a hyper-charged atmosphere to manipulate the stock market to their benefit and our loss.
As my 3 year old son says…”Daddy, I am ANGRY!” “Why are you angry?”"I’m angry, because I am MAD!”
Is there any doubt that Axelrod and Emmanual are totally clueless as to how average people think. After the uproar that this AIG thing caused for them to come out and say this shows that they have absolutely NO IDEA!
I support Obama, but he seems to be really really bad at choosing staff.
I have no idea what ‘people’ think. I do know that I think the Obama treasury department blew it big time by stripping out the provision that would have prevented these excessive bonuses proactively. This is just another example of change we can’t believe in.
I’m pissed about AIG. I’m pissed about Gm & Chryco too. I’m upset about Lehman Bros & Bear Sterns, Citibank & BOA… the list goes on and on. I am also pissed about government shovelling cash out the door – and a new adminstration that came to power preaching change & accountability while doing the exact same thing they were complaining about 30 days ago.
I think Obama has some kinks to work out here – perhaps he gets it, but his team doesn’t yet. I hope this is a learning moment for them.
Being elected from the Democratic party doesn’t mean you get a pass & it doesn’t mean everything you do is automatically right & correct. He is right when he says the buck stops with him – I was glad to see that. I hope they get it right.
It is time to hold our elected officials accountable – on the right, and on the left.
Term Limits for the House & Senate now!
Oh people care. It’s Axelrod’s game and job to try to TELL people what to think – for crying outloud he’s an advertiser! No need for burning too many brain cells when it comes to this guy or this issue. End of discussion. People CARE that businesses have always gotten away with things they’d lose everything they ever worked for and their house for. But businesses can be as crooked as sin and never see a day in court. Now – how many firms did they announce today haven’t paid back taxes? Would I be sitting here writing this if I didn’t pay my back taxes? David can try till he’s blue to tell people what they think. No one is listening. The campaign is over. This is not the stupid crowd he seems to insult with that – this is responsibility time. Even this blog seems very Axelrove…, oh, er, I mean Axelrod.
I think that this is an issue in that the MSM and elements of the MSM that are in lockstep with Republicans make it an issue. That said, the optics on this are just horrible -if you think people aren’t pissed that the individuals who got us into this mess are now being rewarded with money that most of us won’t see in their lifetimes, you’re deluded.
Obama has to address this so that he can continue to clean up this issue – if he doesn’t have the public’s backing, we’re all going down. Remember, “It’s the politics, stupid!”. To Andrew Sullivan’s point, I don’t Obama riding a wave of populist outrage, but he can’t be deaf to it either.
The real issue at hand is why Goldman Sachs was getting 100 cents on the dollar for money lost at the races! Why are they being made whole? Why, I hear Old Man Potter is paying 50 cents on the dollar!
I’m mad as hell and have been for months. AIG is evil and needs to be killed. The same with Citicorp and Goldman Sachs. I don’t want one red cent to go to these devil’s. While their on their knees kick them into oblivion and yo I’m a democrat. Dodd needs to resign and Timmy the treasure fired.
Tena’s right, as usual. I’m angry too that these people 1) got us into this mess and 2) are getting more in bonuses from taxpayer money than I’ll ever make in my lifetime. I’m not sorry to see Congress try to tax it back, or for Cuomo to look at fraudulent conveyance law, or whatever other legal means exist to get it back. But, on the other hand, it’s true that the people in these companies have institutional knowledge about the transactions that were made, and might be in the best position to try to work out of the mess. One thing that seems to be getting lost in this is that nobody was in an uproar when these people were underregulated. In fact, the now populist Republicans wanted government to just leave them alone. Now that they’ve caused the downfall of the global economy, and the corporations have to be bailed out, the Republicans are suddenly populists, enraged at their greed? Somehow, I don’t think so.
Of course people are legitimately pissed off. Either they personally, or their brother, sister, neighbor, son, daughter, etc does not have a job or is losing/may lose their house due to the actions of these cretins. Bankers cannot be found to staff the Treasury because they have all cheated on their taxes. The so-called “financial wizards” have been giving themselves insane salaries and bonuses for years, that reflect the value of no human being ever in history, and they have now royally screwed us all and are still trying to line their own already insanely lined pockets. This is insanely politically tone deaf!
This is a trap being set. Obama has always been about regulations, and the GOP would fight those regulations – he’s tricking them into being the party that calls for them. Emanuel and now Axelrod are Obama’s top political/strategic advisers, they’re putting themselves out there as bait, they want to be jumped on by the MSM and the Right saying “Obama’s advisers are saying that nobody is mad” and raise a stink about it. Then Obama can come back and say “Since we’re all pissed off at AIG and the industry as a whole, here is a set of regulationsthat will stop these bad actors, and the formation of a new regulating body that will police the industry to enforce these new regulations. If Obama called for these new regulations he’s be called a socialist by the right, however calling for them when everybody has been whipped into a frenzy and the GOP is even calling for them, well he can just give them what they want.
And I agree with Tena, this money is less than one tenth of one percent of the monies that went to AIG. This was a contract signed before Obama or Geithner were ever in office. I don’t think folks know how big AIG is, and you need people in there who know the company. Geithner isn’t worried about the politics of it, he’s worried about trillions of dollars, he’s not going to bat an eye about executive pay when he needs to work with these people and they’re helping him clean up the mess.
Agree with Tina. Of course people are angry about AIG. But the liberal blogs and MSM have ratcheted up the anger over the bonuses in such a way that the story out there is all about that and how Tim Geithner somehow bears the blame, when the real issue with AIG is how they’ve taken the world economy to the brink and left the new administration in Washington trying to keep things from falling apart. If you want Rahm and Axelrod to be obsessed with the moment’s ranting over these bonuses to the exclusion of the more important things they’re dealing with, meet me at the Depression. Personally, I’ve had my own private rants, but I don’t want them to distract from the bigger effort under way to save those jobs people are worrying about at their kitchen tables. The bonuses are a decoy, Greg.
Meant Tena, not Tina. Sorry.
Greg: I’m genuinely angry about the bonuses. It makes no sense that people should be awarded millions of dollars in bonuses when they ran the country into the ground. Normally we wouldn’t have a say in how private business doles out bonus money but since we now own AIG and they are being propped up by tax payer money, we have every right to decide how our money is spent.
The comment sounds so out of place for Axelrod. I’ve met Axelrod many times and he’s usually spot on. He’s also usually soft spoken. Seems out of place for him. But I do disagree with him, people do care and are angry. If there’s a distraction it’s their own fault.
It’s a matter of proportionality. Earmarks, less than 2% of Omnibus, became big, big, noise.
AIG bonuses, less than .1% of all bailout monies given to AIG, is now the new big, big noise.
Some perspective required.
I don’t think it contradicts Obama’s statement at all. People can be angry about AIG, but when it comes down to it they really care about keeping their jobs first and foremost. If you were about to lose your job or have your house foreclosed on, what would you care about? Tina is spot on too. Though AIG doing this is terrible, it is the fault of the media and many blogs that it is this out of hand. I don’t think anyone can really rationally argue that the bigger picture is not the economy and people’s jobs.
Oops, Tena not Tina…
Hey, sdrDusty, don’t you going calling Tena clueless. She is one of the most astute commenters I’ve read, and Greg will back me up on this. We go back to TPM Election Central, and she ruled. Still does.
I depart from her on this only because I am choosing to indulge my mob anger here, hoping some real reforms are put in place, and also hoping it doesn’t spin out of control Quite a needle for Obama to thread, and I hope he does it. Hope, hope, hope. And change.
I don’t know how many people actually went to the linked article but this, to me, was the most important part.
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Now Greg I am not trying to make it seem like you did anything wrong, but I do think this little bit of context would have helped. Yeah Axlerod disagreed with President Obama but this basically shows that the tail don’t wag the dog in this White House. If that had been Karl Rove and Bush then its likely Rove would have won the argument. As it stands President Obama went with his own position on the issue and came out swinging. To me this should reassure people who think that
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A. He doesn’t get it.
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B. He will allow others to tell him what to do.
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The truth is in the grand scheme of things Axlerod is right. The outrage out there has been ginned up by the media largely. Hell even FoxNews is coming out in favor of allowing the AIG employees to get the bonuses as is Rush Limbaugh. So clearly this isn’t a black and white issue, yet most of the Village has made it so what with Maureen Dowd’s silly a$$ trying to sound populist and CNN doing an “investigation” into who changed the language in the stimulus bill. But like I said the other day, perception can be reality in this country and its nice to know that President Obama can recognize that even if some of his closest advisors don’t
People in this country care about, what they are told to care about. Most are not politically savvy enough to formulate their own opinions. Thats why idiots like Limbaugh are so popular. Axelrod and Rahm are fooling themselves if they think this is going to go away.
I’m throwing in with Tena here. Maybe it’s about managing expectations. The blogs and the MSM are demanding action that really doesn’t seem to have any basis in … well … legality.
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After spending 8 years complaining that Bush did stuff by royal decree with no regard to the law, these exact same people are demanding contracts signed in late 2007 be trashed by executive decree. Barring that, they want to be given the names of employees so to place their physical safety and that of their families in danger to force them to forgo a completely legal agreement. All the while, the big money flows into other pockets (equally responsible for this mess or more so) unabated with nary a whimper of protest.
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Maybe it’s less about “correct messaging” and more about upholding the law and constitution. You notice that Obama has been rather careful not to promise a specific outcome and pivots to the larger issue that needs to be addressed? Why can’t the media (present company included) seem to get it?
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Of course when every news outlet spends a week telling people to be outraged through nonstop hysterical “coverage” – there is going to be a high level of outrage. Just like if the situation had been explained rationally and contrasted against the BILLIONS funneled to counterparties where the CEOs are taking huge cuts and are far more culpable in the crisis than these AIGFP workers – maybe there would be a different attitude and a focus on the REAL criminals here … the ones who are still shoveling our billions into their pockets with impunity.
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My question: is the media/adminstration’s job to pander to the mob – or to inform it?
Your headline and the David Axelrod’s statement are highly inconsistent. Axelrod NEVER said that “people don’t care about [the] AIG mess.” Instead, he suggested that people have more important things to worry about and they are more focused those things than AIG, and I think he’s absolutely right.
Are people upset about the AIG mess, sure they are. But, are people outside of Washington, people outside the political arena, people who make a living following political minutiae, CONSUMED with this? Doubtful.
Most Americans are worried about their bills, paying for healthcare, wondering if they’re gonna keep their jobs, etc. — real-life issues. I think the Obama administration is right to keep the focus on the big issues, and not get consumed in this “who knew what when” nonsense.
That doesn’t mean that they’re “tone-deaf” or “don’t care” or “out-of-touch” in anyway; it just means that they’re keeping their sights on the larger picture. Wallowing in anger and pity and resentment won’t undo what’s already been done, neither will finger-pointing. The best thing we can do is to move on, work to find ways to recoup the bonuses and make sure this doesn’t happen again in the future.
This story has more than run its course.
well, my 93 year old mother is mad – and very aware. The tone-deaf part is that regular people aren’t focusing on the .01%, or the 1.65 or any of the specifics the Bloggers discuss – people are mad because NO ONE IS TAKING THE RAP for the theft. Madoff is in jail. Nobody else. (Not even stanford, rumoured to be protected because of tax havens for pols in the islands). It’s not the details, it’s the symbolism of the elite being protected by the govmint. It’s the hypocrisy, the double-standard, the circling of the wagons in washington. This makes people think the government is impotent. (as it may well be). Obsessive bloggers can discuss the details, but the hoi polloi want symbolic flexing of muscle to reprimand the arrogant thieves – and they’re being met with the wizard of oz – go away, nothing to see here. I’m astonished how angry my sisters are – one professional, one working class – both INCHOATE with rage at the lack of action on the part of the democrats they voted for. They live in Iowa – by the way. And are slow to burn. But when they do, they don’t forget being treated as insignificant irritants, rather than decent, thinking people. Obama needs to do something symbolic pretty fast to show he’s boss over the financial elite.
This makes sense to me. AIG is a gooper noise machine/traditional press story fueled story. The headline is a button to push, but the reality of neighborhoods in shambles, job insecurity, and health insurance is the real talk around the dinner table.
Nate tackles the whole AIG “bonus” issue –
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/03/why-aig-paid-bonuses.html
I’m paying close attention and I’m very angry about how the Obama Administration has handled this – if Rahm E and Axlerod don’t think this story will overwhelm everything else they’re doing, they’re too stupid to serve this presidential administration and should resign
Axlerod & Rahm are correct. Look at the past 24 hours. Treasury buying $Trilion in debt. This move has broad consequence, globally, and for U.S. mortgage markets. $5 billion to Detroit. That’s just in the last 24 hours, and that’s just Tim Geithner at Treasury. So, who is leading the revolution in mortgage reform? Tim Geithner. Who is whining about small change?…
So, it is just like in the campaign, McCain all fired up about earmarks, just missing the big picture, as earmarks are such a small percentage of spending, even in the last budget, something like one percent. The Master Narrative that won the White House is still operational: The G.O.P. is concerned with minor issues, like earmarks; like 200 million in the face of Trillions. Do this: figure what percent 160 million in bonuses is of the 180 Billion AIG bailout. Check that number. My guess is that it is very very small. Axelrod & Emanuel are correct here, both politically, and economically. Next week, this is history.
I am with Tena upthread. The degree of outrage being fomented by blogs about this is not commensurate with what is going on. For 3 days there has been little coverage of anything else as if the future fo the republic depends on this. Sorry, I may not like it (I don’t) but only bloggers think the public is focusing on this as the make or break moment of the obama administration. You guys want it to be, but it is not. I am more worried about my next pay check, paying my rent, etc. Something I am outraged about? The little coverage here and other sites (ie TPM) on the torture review by the Red Cross.
Yes, we are sitting around talking about AIG and how outrageous the bonuses are. My concern is for the loss of political capital that Obama will suffer. Things were going so well and people were happy and hopeful about the direction the administration was going. Now, we have a “who knew what and when did they know it” situation, with the vultures on TV and in the press just gleeful that they have something to attack with. My disappointment is with the president and his staff not knowing what was going on and/or not anticipating how badly it would be perceived.
a sort of ps. how about we come back in 2 weeks and check to see just how much political capital Obama has lost? How many times already have we heard that obama was a loser as president and a failure and only 50 days into his administration? This 24-hour cycle focus on little things is what destroys our ability to see things into context. When you have bloggers making this out to be a Nixonian thing you know the AIG story jumped the shark. And–if all the bloggers go around pushing this it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. If anyone saw the townhall yesterday it was clear Obama is not tone deaf at all and know what is up. I think I might just get off this obsessiveness with the cycle for a few days until the feeding frenzy dies.
posters who claim it’s a small percent of money REALLY MISS THE POINT. It’s money the recipients should not have been paid. They detroyed their company, nearly destroyed trust in the global financial system, should be investigated for criminal wrong-doing, not given handsome rewards for ******** up so massively – I’m a business school professor, and I wouldn’t vote for a dime of additional “bailout” money unless companies quit rewarding their executives for massive failure. It’s not the amount of money, or the percentage that matters – it’s the utter immorality of these people taking very large undeserved payments out of my pocket and yours, after failing so spectacularly in their jobs. This outrageous compensation story will hamstring Congress and the President when they try to do the next “bailout” unless the bonuses are rescinded in some legal fashion, and future bailouts are offered without enriching those who failed all of us so badly
Great point. I wonder if folks are sitting around talking about the Red Cross Torture review as much as they are talking about $165M in bonuses. It really is selective outrage pushed by the MSM and sadly blogs that are supposed to know better. Where is the MSM outrage about about torture? Where is the 24 hour non-stop pushing of the story? You can bet the Red Cross torture story is getting a heckuva lot more coverage overseas.
But of course that would lead to criticisms of Bush and especially Cheney, and Cheney is seemingly above reproach.
Pushing the torture story might lead to calls for real investigations into the Bush Administration after all and the powers that be don’t want that. So lets keep and fanning the flames regarding $165M in bonus pay.
The torture story is old news, the AIG story is now
Sounds to me like Axelrod and Emanuel are now, officially, “in the bubble.” I remember when Axelrod extolled the virtues of maintaining an “outside-the-Beltway” mentality.
I have news for these guys: many folks are absolutely disgusted by the antics of these tone deaf, greedy jerks running places like AIG and Citi. And the claim that the employees collecting these enormous bonuses are, essentially, irreplaceable is a sick joke considering the number of people being laid off in the financial services sector. No one is irreplaceable, and, besides, where are they going to go? It’s not like there are thousands of jobs waiting for these “geniuses” (yes, the very “geniuses” who drove the company into the ground, nose-first).
If people aren’t angry, they’re certainly disgusted. And I’m a Democrat.
The perception is that Geithner and Summers are too close to the very people they are supposed to be managing/regulating/straightening out.
I am surprised at Axelrod’s lack of recognition on this issue.
Axelrod and Emmanual what planet are you on? Have you escaped to the same planet as people in Bush Administration were on? Every conversation I have had with my friends and family this week this issue has come up. people are angry and they are angry at this Obama administration, because of clueless comments like the one’s they are making. People are not idiots and statements like this make everyone sound like idiots. The more and more things like this the less faith I am having on people in the Obama administration.
I think the writer of this non-story story is the only one confused about what message to give. It’s the media driving all this and trying to find controversy around every corner. As soon as something else happens next hour or next day the media will move on. A week from now everyone will forget about this! Again, this is the same **** that goes on with the media all the time now. Business as usual.
The Red Cross Torture Review was published on Monday March 16th. Not exactly old news.
I don’t think COS Emanuel or Axelrod are inside the bubble, but are rather rightly looking at the big picture. I don’t think either of them have said “People don’t care about AIG Mess” like Greg would lead one to believe with the title of this blog. They’re saying folks are rightly outraged, but that they are being distracted from much bigger issues, and that many, many folks are more worried about their next paycheck than AIG. Folks outraged by this are the ones in a bubble – the MSM bubble, they’re the ones intently watching the 24 hour news shows and then reacting accordingly to what they’re being told to be outraged about. You can be outraged, but have some perspective.
Arrogance is what crushed Bush. The people surrounding President Obama don’t seem to care that their arrogance will eventually taint the President. Public Servant! Repeat it three times.
This is being ‘ginned up’ in Washington by the right wing echo chamber because they see it as an opportunity to hurt Obama and to derail what he’s trying to do. It’s largely a reflection of their own powerlessness and political desperation. But most people aren’t surprised by this – they already know this is how greedy corporations operate. And they don’t expect Obama to have changed everything in two months. If anything, it only adds to the argument that there needs to be drastic change in regulations and in how corporations operate. That’s why Obama is playing political rope-a-dope on this and pointing out how this is only one symptom of a much broader and deeper problem that needs to be fixed.
While I very much care, I agree with Axelrod, because I know President Obama and his administration are taking care of everything. I am delighted to see what he has accomplished in just two months. It leaves me quite hopeful, which smooths over some of the anger at the AIG scandal. I guess I am saying, Axelrod is right from that perspective.
People don’t care about David Axelrod.
Dennis/Bernie 2012.
Didi/Gogo,
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I find it somewhat ironic that I now hear so many here echoing what we heard from Republicans during the Bush/Cheney disaster: “It’s all the media’s fault! People aren’t really thinking these things!”
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As if saying that will make it so.
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Why doesn’t Obama or Geithner come out and state clearly a simple truth. like, “The claim that the employees collecting these bonuses are ‘irreplaceable’ is utter nonsense. Everyone is replaceable, including me.”
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That’s all people are looking for — an acknowledgment of their own feelings on this.
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Obama should take a lesson from Oprah, one of the all-time greats at saying aloud exactly what is on the minds of her audience members.
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It ain’t rocket science, but to continue to blame the media and deny the reality of the public’s disgust at the use of tax money is simply shoving your head in the sand.
Well, Greg, i for one am not in a dither over the bonus-rage aspect with AIG. I am greatly concerned, however, about what AIG may tell us about the health of the insurance industry. Day-by-day, we’re hearing new revelations about what is on who’s books, but very little about what the major insurance companies invested in. If AIG and others fail, the crrent mess will be doubled… the pension funds (which still exist) and annuities upon which retirees depend will evaporate… and it isn’t a case of these people being able to return to the workforce. People in long-term care will lose their financing and be forced to appeal to state Medicaid programs which are in the red. University endowments and philanthropies will take a fatal hit. Families with life insurance will lose their safety net… and on and on.
One reason that the media has developed such a poor reputation is, like Paris Hilton, it lacks perspective and depth. It has swapped out substantive reporting for populist entertainment.
i can confirm one thing. i am outraged over these bonuses.
here’s why: the greedy, self-centered miscreants who obviously played very prominent roles in creating this crisis have not only failed to show any shame or remorse whatsoever; they evidently feel that they are entitled to continue benefitting handsomely, even now, even after their actions have inflicted such great harm, such irreparable damage, upon so many others – american taxpayers for instance – of which i am one.
if this hubris on their part is allowed to stand unchecked by the rational demand of those now expected to finance this fiasco, it will only open the floodgates further, to even greater abuses by them and their ilk. and it will do so, once again, at our collective expense.
to hell with that. and them.
my gosh, what a mess. I’m not surprised about Rahm being tone deaf, after all these are good prospective donors. These are his peers, the powerful and the well positioned. But I expect more of Axelrod. We have a problem, the system is rotten and the people fixing the system are part of the same system. We were told that to prevent a catastrophe, we had to save these fools, because if the ship sank we would drown with the rats. As far as I can tell we have transferred more wealth to the very fools who created this catastrophy, in order to save the hides of other fools who were complicit, yeah you Rubin and Summers and your Goldman-Sachs frat brothers. And now shouldn’t we be angry that these criminals and fools have the nerve to enrich themselves again. There is a stench here, our political and financial system fairly reeks. If Harry’s sisters in Iowa are angry, you can bet that we don’t consider the AIG mess unrelated to our own concerns. Get a clue Axelrod. It seems like Obama understands the anger, but I am not sure he has got the policy correct. But the very least we can do is to use our financial laws and indict and prosecute those culprits who committed criminal laws. I am so tired of hearing Obama say we need to move forward, as if you can move forward without an understanding and an accounting for the acts that have harmed so many people.
Of course people are thinking about the AIG bonus fiasco. It’s easy to be angry with the entire meltdown of the economy, but that’s such a huge issue that the anger is difficult to target. The arrogance of the AIG bonus process puts a face on the entire financial crisis and provides a specific target which is symbolic of the larger picture. Mr. Axelrod may have the chief architect of the Obama election victory, but he’s way, way off base, if he seriously feels the AIG bonus issue is a “distraction”. Quite the contrary, it’s a focus for people’s anger and, as such, can only be ignored or minimized at considerable political peril.
Your headline is misleading and I am restraining myself when I say that.
Axelrod did not say what you put in your headline.
People ARE more worried about their jobs and health care reform than this bonus business.
Hopefully EFCA will pass, taxes on the rich will increase and some of the inequalities will decrease. This environment of deregulation and outrageous executive compensation will be decried for the loathsome and immoral cesspool it has become and compensation will be reined in across ALL companies, not just those who have received a bailout.
How can they even say people aren’t talking about AIG, go on twitter, google search it, watch cable news! It’s incredible. I saw this: http://www.newsy.com/videos/outraged_by_aig_bonuses/
claiming that there are over 11,000 stories expressing outrage. This entire AIG situation is completely unethical and disgusting. Our financial system is a complete mess and it is corporate greed, just like what is being exhibited by AIG that got us in this disaster.
Bob Johnson,
Because they are irreplaceable on the short term. Sure if the economy was stable you could find better and brighter to fill the positions and wait patiently while the new hiree’s get up to speed, but to fire the lot of them and bring in new recruits – how long do you think it would take for them to get a complete understanding of intricacies and reach of AIG?
Acknowledgment of their own feelings? Obama has said many times that folks are completely right to be outraged. The article that led to this blog says as much. Furthermore Axelrod and Emanuel are not saying folks shouldn’t be angry, they’re just asking for a little perspective.
Take cue from Oprah and simply tell folks what they want to hear? That’s certainly not what I voted for.
I’d rather have my head in the sand rather than up the collective MSM’s…
I don’t think people are ANGRY per se, I think they think its just the same old carp thats been going on and its in the open now. What is so funny is the language Obama watered down shows he is a FREE MARKET DEM. Righti tighties have been throwing Socialist fodder out there and now all the sudden Obama should have taken tighter controls? That’s what the public sees, is hypocrits trying to make hay while the sun is shining. Only problem is its not the sun its Boehner’s face tanning lamp.
_I_ am sitting at my kitchen table this very minute thinking about AIG, and I vote. Read my lips: we are not in the mood for reconciliation. We want these white collar criminals strung up!
Remember the Maine.
So the same people who don’t want big bad socialist Obama to interfere w/ capitalist success now want heads? Fair weather friends are ye? And btw who originated the Masters of the Universe? Ronny the Clown Reagan! Hypocrisy abounds
Or, more precisely, remember “Remember the Maine.”
Bothered by AIG? I can’t say I’m happy about it but it doesn’t even break into the top 10 list of issues that concern me. I am really fed up with the excessive media coverage, the grandstanding. It is time to move on to issues that matter far more.
It isn’t just AIG. Today’s news reports that Citigroup has been spening TARP money on anti-union lobbying efforts. And another news story reports that over 100 firms that received bailout money still owe unpaid corporate taxes.
Mary P you are right … its like worrying day and night about which phone plan is best when I can’t pay my mortgage
Greg,
I have to say that the original source for this story is a little ambiguous in a way you’re not seeing. Your post asserts “yesterday” Axelrod went off message. But if you look carefully at the Post narrative, even though the interview with Axelrod took place “yesterday” it’s by no means clear that what Axelrod says in your selected quote is his *current* view, or if in the interview he is trying to explain what the prevailing point of view was in the administration on March 12 when they first discussed it, which is the context of the insertion of this quote in the writer’s narrative.
And, my two cents, you guys could all take a step back and stop trying to push buttons on this stuff with really unfair inflammatory headlines. This stuff is very complicated and it doesn’t help when the press and the talking heads are oversimplifying and feeding the outrage.
(And I myself am pretty ticked off at everybody here, AIG included. I’m with the crew that says the counterparties are the real story here, not these retention bonuses.)
this is what emanuel and axelrod are all about: managing public opinion rather than representing it.
And they’ll fight very, very hard trying to marginalize us, telling us what we think is important despite the exact opposite and trying to cloud the clarity … and the opportunity for unity of the citizenry this matter offers (almost every citizen of all political ilks is outraged about this) … that this provides to these corrupt relationships between the wall street interests and their government. emanuel and axelrod will fight tooth and nail (especially scumbag traitor emanuel, do you think that he wants some light shined on the nexus between wall street and the government with all the money that he made in such a short time on wall street once he left the clinton administration?) becoz they are afraid that if we get our way and get these enemies to a representative government, geithner and summers, removed from obama’s administration, then we will always want our way … and think that we can get it. Essentially, we will expect a government that represents us rather than one in which we just have to be happy with whatever they decide we get. That’s the clarity of it all.
That’s how they think and that tells you a lot about them … especially emanuel who is a HUGE barrier between us and representative government … they don’t want the government to respond to the people, they want it to work for them and their immoral friends. So, that’s why they do not want the government to “give us our way” … becoz then we will always expect the government to actually represent and respond to us … like a representative government is supposed to … and not settle for whatever crumbs of representation these scumbag powerbrokers drop from their table.
Z
This is a very, very important opportunity to make this government begin to represent us and force them to fire these enemies to representative government that obama has appointed, summers and geithner … for now. And what it needs is a critical mass of people behind the words. It needs demonstrations with a simple message that brings this into full clarity: GEITHNER AND SUMMERS, GET OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT!
That is what this issue is all about, about obama making appointments of people who obviously are not in the business of representing us. They need to go, and we need to force them out … and once we do, he will not be able to appoint a bunch of wall street stooges to take their place with the political price he will have paid for them and also the focus that this will bring upon his future economic appointments.
obama is still redeemable, but he needs to be forced to represent us and not embrace the new democrat/dlc corporatist ways that he seems to be so comfortably inclined to. And we need to hit him with that force right now while the rage is still boiling hot and this unifying issue is in the public’s consciousness.
We need to mobilize and hit his political team, that is much more interested in managing public opinion than representing it, while they are on their heels … while it has gotten ahead of them and they are least able to manage it. This doesn’t involve anything illegal, it just involves putting faces and physical mass to this almost universal disgust of the beltway’s ways. We have to be seen to be heard.
I don’t know of the complexity of the logistics of getting a nationwide demonstration together (I assume that organized labor would be the first place to start), but the sooner we can get people on the streets demonstrating … this weekend? … the better chance we have to get some traction on this foothold of universal citizen disgust and actually get change.
Z
Axelrod couldn’t be more wrong. People are sitting around their kitchen tables thinking about those bonuses. People are talking about it on the streets, in casual conversations. Get out of your bubble, David. The people are angry at this, and it’s not going to go away.
The Axelrod apologists here are sickening. You folks are as delusional as any Limbaugh ditto. You are ideologues. You automatically deny the significance of anything that potentially tarnishes the image of the administration. Next, you declare that anyone who IS upset about the administration’s handling of this is part of an irrational “mob”.
You folks are more detached from reality than PUMAs.
I’m an average person and I don’t care. I’m not angry. I care about my job and I care about the small business I’m trying to build. I care about the jobs of my friends and family. I also care that the Obama administration is working to repair the economy. AIG’s practices have been going on for a long, long time and companies like this ran rampant during the Bush administration. Where was all of the outrage then? I think if regular people are angry it’s because the media has tried to drum up a bit of drama around this for their own gain. If people really cared, they would paid attention to this during the Bush administration when the worst offenses were occurring. People should care about what the current administration will do about this going forward and the fact that they are serious about recovering taxpayer’s money from the bailouts. Unlike our previous administration, this administration has integrity at its core. At worse they may stumble from time to time (and may lack integrity at the periphery, e.g. Blagojevich) but I don’t think they’ll try to fleece us all to support their corporate buddies.
This isn’t rocket science.
Wall Street screwed up, threatening to take down the rest of us.
So we spent a lot of money to bail them out, and said we would clean it all up.
To clean it up — and have “orderly wind-up” — you have to take control of the situation.
To take control you have to assert control, instead of pleading powerlessness.
Rather than taking control we’ve lost it, and are spending trillions with nothing to show for it — the AIG bonuses are just an example. A small example, but a real one.
Obama has gone missing on this issue, and Axelrod says it doesn’t matter.
I spent hours I didn’t have and money I couldn’t afford on the Obama campaign.
They’ve lost me on this one, and I am sick at heart. You can’t believe in change when there isn’t any.
Throw the Bums Out!!!!!
It may well be true that it is the whiners on the right and the left are the ones who are clogging the blogs with their angst. For better or worse, these (and their readers) are the ones obsessed with keeping up with what is going on. One may infer that the quiet ones in the middle simply believe that they have better things to do than keep up with current events. It would not be appropriate to infer that their silence is support for the administration on this matter. It also would not be appropriate to assume that they would not be angry if they were presented with the same facts that the whiners on both the right and the left have taken the time to discern.
The only thing which one can remotely infer about those in the middle from their lack of participation in these blogs is that many of them are either intentionally or circumstantially uninformed. Perhaps the best way to estimate the feelings of those who have chosen to reserve their opinions on this particular matter is to consider that their is something approaching an overwhelming consensus from both the left and the right that this deal stinks to high heaven. There does not appear to be any significant support from either the right (not unexpected) or the left for the actions which resulted in this problem. It is not likely that those who have chosen to remain silent on this have opinions which are greatly at odds with those who have expressed their opinions (except, perhaps, in the imagination of Mr. Axelrod).
Teena,
If the govt had no right to change those contracts on the bonuses then how come it has a right to change the contracts that homeowners got into with borrowers? Why can those mortgages not be upheld and the terms will be changed? Why is it ok to change those contracts?? You cant have it both ways
This is what you get when you let politicians run a private company. They make a contract with employees they now regret so they are goining to use their legislative powers to unwind it. How pathetic. How unconstitutional.
They gave us public housing, this mess and we’re going to let them run our healthcare?
Tena said: “All the complaining about Geithner comes from two directions – the far left and the Republicans. That tells ME Geithner is doing something right.”
This logical fallacy is the last refuge of people who are doing a poor job. In this case, what I think the right and left and actually many in between are seeing in Geithner is a guy who is in way over his head, and whose dwinding respect is becoming a hazard to the Obama Administration. Obama wants the public to give government under his leadership responsibility for running health care and establishing a cap and trade system for carbon offsets, two major incursions into the private economy with real-life consequences for virtually all Americans at every strata. What does it say about the viability of those plans if they can’t even get a relatively little thing like the AIG bonuses right?
The morality of many of Obama’s agenda items is unassailable, but the ability of government to deliver results is very open to question. AIG underscores that point.
The reason people are attacking the administration is that obama needs to get his face off the DAILY TV and get to work. Now he signed two book deals. KNOCK IT OFF. We voted for change, not for another goofball narcissist. First impressions will stick and if this doesn’t work, taxpayers are looking to hang the people who said, “Trust us.” Trust is long gone, be it a Dem or repub.
Obama is looking like a one termer.
Vail Beach- you hit it on the head.It’s definitely a trust issue. There is no much that has to be done in this country- Although I did not vote for Obama, his success is necessary for our nation to succeed. When we see the bumbling and stumbling that has typified this administration, it is really scary. How could the administration pick someone like Geithner who cannot clear the bar? Why did they compound the issue by rejecting several very qualified deputies simply because they are from Wall Street? Emmanuel and Axelrod are trying to downplay a very sensitive issue, but they, too are contributing to the sense that this administration just doesn’t get it…
This administration is amateur hour.
Emmanuel is just mad nobody is talking about important stuff, like Rush Limbaugh. This administration brings all of the bad baggage of the Clinton administration and combines it with the ineptitude of the Bush administration. God help us all.
I’m pissed off about this whole thing. Why are people getting hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars in bonuses for doing a **** job, while the average workers, the millions of people who literally hold this country together, don’t have money to buy food, pay the mortgage, keep their kids in school, buy health insurance and get health care, etc, etc, etc? And I’m upset that the bailouts were passed without providing the proper oversight of the funds. All one had to do was look at past history to know that unless these greedy bigwigs were absolutely made to toe the line, they were going to abuse distribution of the funds, and that things would just get better for a few and much, much worse for the many. I think there are a lot of people who have a lot to answer for, and anyone who isn’t having to worry about all the concerns I listed earlier had best be willing to tighten their belts and find humanitarian ways to help the needy, or this country is going to go down the toilet bowl in a big hurry. So yes, I think this AIG thing DOES matter, I AM upset about what is happening, and I think the average Joe deserves much more consideration than he is getting.
Whether or not people are mad at AIG, I think what they are saying is, focusing all our time and attention on what is basically a symbolic affair is helping the economy how?
Even the guy with the 92 year old grandmother said Obama needs to make a symbolic action quick.
Well, guess what? I’ve never paid rent with symbolism, so after Obama does something appropriatedly symbolic we’ll still be where we left off.
AIG bonuses are irrational, but are a grain of sand on a beach. I don’t want mob thinking to direct a complex problem to solution.
Unemployed folks out of a job tend to have more time to follow the news more closely.
If the bonus money feature of the original bailout bill was dropped, it’s likely that it was from negotiations to get the votes to pass it. If you remember the Republicans who crossed the line to beat cloture in the Senate, then you should remember that they extracted a stiff price for their support. Now, the sting is being felt. As for who people are angry with, I think most of it is aimed at AIG, and their clueless arrogance on the issue. They don’t get it. This is not about whether or not they had contracts guaranteeing the ‘bonuses’. It’s about a company, and an industry, that has lost 10s of billions of dollars, and without massive government (read…us) aid, would be a collection of building with for rent signs in the windows. In that kind of business, they don’t deserve any bonuses, including those they are calling retention payments. In fact, they should be thanking their lucky stars that they still have a job at all. The fact that they’re still trying to defend these things, and in the case of the AIG boss claiming that he asked for 50% of those bonuses in excess of $100K shows how much they don’t get it. People are scrambling to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. This conversation is otherwordly.
The legislation has Obama’s signature. Maybe he should have read it before signing it and taking ownership. Hmmmm, like many people who signed adjustable-rate mortgages…
I’m surprise BHO hasn’t pulled out his “tiny” phrase. That’s the one he used to describe Iran & Venezuela as “tiny little countries don’t pose a theat” and also referred to human embryos as “tiny little cells that no one cares about”. He uses it whenever he wants to trivialize something.
Also, why is the omnibus budget “last year’s business” and the AIG contracts aren’t? He’s trying to minimize 8 billion in earmarks but makes a big, *** deal out of 160 million?
BTW, in light of Dodd throwing Timothy under a fleet of buses (and therefore BHO & company), it’s going to be entertaining to watch the democrats tear each other apart. My money’s on Princess Pelosi.
To put things in perspective, in 2008 the entire State of Maine received $79 million for low income heating assistance. This amount was far less than the actual need.
So. $165 million in AIG bonuses is equal to two years worth of low income heating assistance for the entire State of Maine.
It’s a lot of @#$%^^ money.
Source:
http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=0617cbb9-802a-23ad-411f-85a950093bcb&Region_id=&Issue_id=
I’m mad as hell, but my anger is at Washington politicians. Why are they signing a stimulus bill they haven’t read and then trying to pass the buck of their responsibility onto people who had the right to expect pre-contracted bonuses that were part of the stimulus bill that Washington didn’t read?
Now, I don’t necessarily think that AIG execs should get taxpayer money, but Washington politicians set this up when they bailed out AIG and then signed legislation that ensured the bonuses. If they had allowed AIG to go into bankruptcy restructuring, the contracts would have been null and void. We need to vote those clowns out of office.
Has anyone questioned Barney Frank yet as to why Fannie Mae execs will be getting bonuses later this year? Better yet, why isn’t Barney Frank in the hotseat having to defend his decisions for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — the same companies he claimed as financially sound in July 2008?
remember this: the first time somebody cheats you, they’re just practicing. let em get away with it and they’ll be back to cheat you again.
string these weasels up in the public square by their tails, for all to see.
AIG bonuses are irrational, but are a grain of sand on a beach. I don’t want mob thinking to direct a complex problem to solution.
The AIG bonuses are twice what the entire State of Maine received for low income heating assistance in 2008. Care to rethink your statement?
Or as Sen. Snowe wrote on Oct. 16, 2008:
At a time when Maine is facing one of the hardest winters in a generation every federal LIHEAP dollar helps reduce the significant burden that Mainers are facing this winter.
Source: http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=0617cbb9-802a-23ad-411f-85a950093bcb&Region_id=&Issue_id=
Everyone at the office, from VP’s to Admin’s are talking about this & they are NOT happy !
Another piece of data:
Maine’s state education budget deficit (ie. the state’s share of funding for all k-12 schools) is approx. $177 million for 2009.
Because of this, Maine towns and cities are facing significant lay-offs and school closings.
$177 million.
So. $165 million in AIG bonuses is just a “grain of sand on a beach.”
Talk to any school superintendent in Maine, who would desperately like to even get a tiny shred of this purloined money.
Or ask any teacher.
I think the bonus issues is a distraction to the bigger issue of AIG sending BILLIONS of our (U.S.) taxpayer money to overseas owned companies. Obama’s administration should be going after the European countries these companies are in to cough up the money and put it back in to our treasury and reduce the staggering debt we are accumulating now and for the future with these bailouts and spending policies!
“People are not sitting around their kitchen tables thinking about AIG,” Axelrod said. “They are thinking about their own jobs.””
news flash for mr. axelrod…some of us are capable of thinking about and discussing MORE than one topic at a time…just last night my family and i were discussing not only AIG, our jobs, but also HEALTH CARE and the need to pass h.r. 676…among other topics at the dinner table. so, in some respect you were correct, we are not sitting around the dinner table thinking about it; we are sitting around the dinner table very ANGRY talking about it!
Number 1, Axelrod is dead wrong. 88% of the people are watching it VERY closely or somewhat closely.
Number 2, everyone is missing the point.
The POINT is, and in its most base terms, Americans are out here, hungry, hurting, wondering how we’re going to pay for our bills, feed our kids, keep the roof over our heads and the lights turned on.
And you have the obscene spending OUR money, when the democrats have repeatedly REFUSED to give us OUR money back in massive tax cuts.
Money WE ALREADY EARNED so we can feed our kids, pay our bills, pay for our houses.
Pelosi and the democrats think 13.00 a week is “comprehensive tax relief.” 13.00 a week.
They WON’T stop taking THEIR automatic 4900 raises of OUR money. But they won’t give us OUR money back.
Obama blathering about climate change when most of us are scared about losing our homes. He’s off base on his focus.
PELOSI wants to fly around in jets WE pay for, like some kind of queen. Ya KNOW what people did to queens who took the “let them eat cake” mentality, right? “off with their heads.”
THAT is the entire focal point of the anger. EVERYONE else misses it. And the government will really be remiss if they don’t realize that.
You cannot have “royalty” like Obama spewing money to people, Pelosi obscenely sticking her hand in for piles of cash for herself, while the American people that EARNED that money look in through the window, hungry, hurting, watching the DEMOCRATS gorge themselves, giving money away to their buddies. . . .
That’s how the French revolution started. With idiots like the democrats who are saying “let them eat cake.”
Record numbers of guns sold, record numbers of WOMEN buying guns. . . .
Pay attention. THAT is how nations melted down with the overthrow of governments.
THAT is how you have riots, and governments overrun by people who won’t tolerate the “elite” thinking they know better, taking all OUR money, and not giving it back while living high on the hog on money that isn’t even theirs nor did they earn, like the AIG people. . . .
Pay attention. . . .
Calm down. This phoney outrage by the pols is just a diversion to keep us from thinking about the TRILLIONs Obama is taking from us and we have to pay for for generations. And he’s not done yet.
They, the pols, are all buddies with the banking boys. Notice who got the most campaign funds from AIG. Obama and Dodd. After all they didn’t want to have the boys loose some of their homessss. notice the plural.
taxing the bonuses 90% won’t mean anything. They don’t pay taxes any way.
People crab and complain but seem to vote the same ones in over and over.
AIG cannot raise your taxes, fine you, strip you of your free speech rights, put you in jail, cause runaway inflation by printing money, draft your children, or destroy our Constitution. Focus, people, focus.
How can such a supposed smart person (Obama) be so stupid as to have such idiots working for him (Geithner) and also claim to have not known about the bonuses when the ENTIRE financial arm of his administration had to have known about them for months and his idiot boy Dodd put in special legislation to protect them.
Obama is a liar, I had been hopeful, but now I realize that he is a disaster that has no idea what he is doing, has an incompatent staff, and has Democratic leadership in the house and senate that are clueless as well.
Moreso, he is a freaking idiot if he thinks he can get that money back through new legislation. As much as we don’t like it, we have a contract with AIG to honor those bonuses and there is nothing that can be done about it. One of the strongest aspect of the US is our history of folllowing through on business contracts. Not only would it be unconstitutional to have special legislation to try and get that money back it would set a bad precedent for the future, but since idiot boy Obama is in charge I am not surprised.
“People are not sitting around their kitchen tables thinking about AIG,” Axelrod said. “They are thinking about their own jobs.”
———————–
I’ve got some breaking news for you Dave (may I call you Dave?). Including me, approximately ninety percent of America is sitting around the table discussing exactly that! You and your boss are out of touch, Dave! You haven’t been getting your talking points from Chuckie Schumer, have you, Dave? He also thinks that America isn’t paying attention, Dave! Lay off the Kool-Aid, and take off the rose colored glasses Dave, because unlike you, Dave, we can see extremely well, and regardless of our job situations, Dave, are outraged at the travesty that you, Dave, your boss, and his corrupt, unethical administration have brought upon our country! Now, Dave, would you please pass the salt?
we know that teh Wyden-Snow amendment would have prevented these bonuses. We know that the Obama administration asked Dodd to have the Wyden-Snow Amendment tanked and replaced with an amendment that protected these bonuses. We know that Obama and Dodd recieved more money than any other pols from the AIG execs and their families. If a quid pro quo can be established we have “high crimes and misdemeanors”. You can bet the administration is talking this down and you can bet they are praying that it does not speak to the anger of the American public…but that is a prayer against hope…no pun intended.
People do not care about a hole in our economy that is trillions of dollars wide? I am not convinced of that.
I think Axerod is dead wrong. People care about AIG because it looks corrupt for Sen Dodd & Obama to each take over $100K in AIG money #1 & #2, arrange to guaranteed AIG Executive bonuses in a bill that they rushed through so fast nobody even read it, and then act outraged. The fix was in on this one folks and Obama, Dodd, and the leadership in Congress knew it. The other Democratic Senators and Congressman are probably hapless dupes, but if they don’t take time to read a bill before voting on it who’s fault is that! This whole AIG mess is obscene and Obama and Dodd are up to their necks in it!
I think people are really angry about AIG. I mean where is it going to stop? One trillion, two trillion, three? I mean nobody is angry at Obama. However, this cavalclade of clowns that he has appointed does not enjoy the pleasure of the American people as our commander in cheif does. I think there will be a sacrifice.
I live in the bluest part of the country — San Francisco — and I’ll tell you people here are very mad about AIG. I had a conversation today with an editor I work with who recently had to lay off a number of people. One of the laid-off editors came in today and picked up her final severance check. And her boss (my editor) was furious that her employee got so little and bad actors at AIG got so much. No, she’s not mad at Obama, and neither am I. But I starting to think Obama made a mistake picking Tim Geithner.
If Obama is so smart than he must hate America because he is doing everything in record time to bring it to financial ruin. Some of his comments convince me of this when he was campaigning, ie: “white man’s greed leaves the world in need”, “spread the wealth around”. Axelrod is in the same boat and is trying to minimize their failure on AIG.
Tena:
You claim that Obama is smarter than you. I have to agree. Then again, damn near everybody is smarter than you.
Obama guy is an “empty suit”. His staff running the White House puts new meaning to the term “amateur hour”. Damn near everyone he’s picked for his staff has either not paid his taxes or has some kind of criminal past. According to MSNBC whose commentators like Chris Mathews got a “tingle down his leg” when he heard Obama speak, now claim that his Chief Information Officer pleaded guilty to theft 12 years ago.
Keep drinking the Kool Aid. Before you know what hits you, you’ll be destitute.
It appears to be just a ruse with this AIG fiasco,the real problem is
WHO signed the 30 billion dollar bill? Who authorized AIG to give
over 160 billion dollars tobail out foreign banks? The Obama administration,the Senate and House may be a good place to start.
Get your heads out of the sand. People are mad and have a right to be. Obama and his team pushed this thing through. Who do you think owed AIG big-time? Dodd and Obama! Geitner is either incompetent or a liar and it doesn’t much matter which is true. Obama’s a liar. If he’s as smart as some say he is then he knows how to read and being a lawyer, knows you don’t sign something before you read it. I think he got what he wanted in this bill when he pressured Dodd to do his bidding, which didn’t take much pressure. Obama lied and the economy died. Can you spell fraud? Can you say impeach? You’ll be hearing it a lot before long.
Elevators, street, grocery store everyone is talking about AIG. Demonstration in Pittsburgh today. Many are starting to put 2 and 2 together and realizing this whole mess couldn’t have happened without Congress’ complicity. After all the provision was slipped in to allow those bonuses into a bill that no one was given time to read by the uber-wealthy Pelosi. Look at the list of donors to Obama’s campaign. They were all slipped huge sums through AIG. Just because Obama doesn’t want you to think about AIG doesn’t mean it isn’t important. Why aren’t you mad at Obama? Why does he get a pass?
David Axelrod gave the Province of Ontario, Canada, Dalton McGuinty. McGuinty made 231 promises to get elected. He kept exactly zero of those promises. Now Axelrod has gone on to give America, Barry Obama. Same scam, make a lot of promises and keep none. The 12 million people of Ontario have been through the results of Axelrod’s political campaining. We feel sorry for America now having to live through the same thing.
I’m sorry Barack….but the American people can chew gum, talk, think and geet pissed off at AIG at the same time.
Maybe Rahm and your pals don’t think we can ….
BUT WE DO AND WE’RE HOLDING YOU ACCOUNTABLE!
If Obama is smarter than most of us, why did he not know about this before? If he is so smart, why are we still worried about our economy? The only smarts this con man posseses is the ability to lull idiot liberals into following him without thought. He has no control over Congress. The House passed a bill today that is un-Constitutional after passing a stimulus bill that made the bonuses possible. No one read that bill! But Hussein told us all we needed to the bill immediately. Yes, he is smart but only because we the people are truly dumb. Wake up America, you have a Congress and a President that are determined to destoy us!
OBAMA LIED CAPITALISM DIED, FREEDOM OF SPEECH DIED, PROPERTY RIGHTS DIES, THE ECONOMY DIED, THE 2ND AMENDMENT DIED, THE CONSTITUTION DIED, AMERICA DIED! ANY QUESTIONS?
As Tena pointed out, the government cannot force two parties to breach a contract, thus pushing them into court. However, that is exactly what I think our government should’ve attempted to do in this situation. I think since it is taxpayers dollars going to support these bonuses, then the government is a third-party to the contract, and can try to force a breach. I say let’s take it to court. If we can Clinton to court over a blow-job, then why shouldn’t we able to argue over the finer points of a contract that allows executives of a company to run in straight into the ground, and yet still reap a bonus. Yes, we are sitting around our kitchen tables thinking about this and wondering how it is possible that the citizens of this country can think it is alright to throw millions of dollars at people that clearly did not have the best interest of their company, shareholders or employees at heart, and that this will solve the problem.
Best thing that happen was the professional at Treasury doing their job and legal insisting that Dodd change the compensation clause start date to 2/01/2009. The Republican’s play acting that they hadn’t read the bill was all for the moment AIG got the bonuses on Friday and the follow-up outrage then blaming of Dodd, Geitner and President Obama. Remember they all knew that they refused to pass the bill if the bonus compensation clause remained in the bill. There reasoning based on Paulson, McConnell, Cantor, and repub senators were the contracts are binding and unbreakable. I’m not an attorney, however, I have a MBA and know something about contracting because it is a key part of what I do everyday. The provision to limit or eliminate bonus contract from 2008 should be in a separate bill to limit future challenges by bank, etc employees that received TARP money. Future challenges could put the Recovery bill in jeopardy and make the Democratic congress and the Whitehouse look foolish and unprofessional. The repug would have found an angry AIG, Citibank, or BOA employee to start a lawsuit even if the lawsuit failed. The goal is to stop the President from getting his agenda
passed into law by congressional approval. They want to slow the President and his team’s momentum; they over played their hand now they have to vote for or against the tax bill and other regulations which they debunked previously . Now it’s time to put up or shut up. Please allow the Treasury team to do what they do and protect us when dealing with Wall Street and the Bankers. ” I know from what I speak”; Some of you on the post was able to unravel the mystery while the MSM is flapping there wings in the air. The President now have the Demo congress attention now to take his team and Geitner’s/Larry Summers serious and realize that the President have been given a mandate by the American voters and it will not be derailed.
Hi Pghmom, Why were you md at Bush and Paulson when they had the Repubs refuse to sign the bill if this provision was added to the original bill in the house and the senate. Remember it failed the first time in House because of this language. Those of you willing to blame this on President Obama and Demo Congress should remember this issue with AIG, Citibank, & BOA STARTED BACK IN SEPT 2008 WHEN YOU ALL THOUGHT JOHN MCCAIN AND PALIN WERE THE STUFF AND HEADED TO THE WHITEHOUSE. This is what John McCain suspended his campaign to take care of..remember! Why aren’t you all out raged that CITIBANK has given out 6-8 billions not $165 million. Cuomo is still trying to get the courts to make CITI come clean because Merrill was involved with their pre-merge scam as well. Really the main point which someone will get to eventually is the key fact that Bush, Paulson, Congress and the American people did not stand a chance in this deal with these bankers because their were no regulation. The Board and the leaders planned these bonuses early in the year at all these banks , etc because they knew the banks were tanking with these toxic assets and the feds were going to bail them out and they didn’t want to be like the leaders at Enron and other who went to jail, die and received nothing when the scam went silent so they put in a April Fool Proof plan for the Feds and US government. The knew that Bush administration, Feds, congress and even the people will have the will to uncover the scam until every one had been paid and moved on to their next scam. They betted on the government being so busy with trying to put the fire out they would get a way with the scam of the century. Let’s stop blaming and let go of your ideology and let’s get this country back on track by taking it back from the robber barons. President Obama is in the game for 4 years let’s help him and his team instead of complaining endlessly without any concrete opposition and constructive ideas.
If anyone thinks that people are NOT angry about this, they are sadly mistaken. Even in England we are angry, as similar events have been occurring with banks here.
It is indeed what people are thinking and talking about around the dinner table. Most people cannot believe the greed and the immoral attitude of banking executives at this time.
It may well be in the contracts but they should all be sacked. The business would have been bankrupt without the bail-outs. How can one possibly justify any sort of bonus? It goes to show how toxic live in business has become when we are surprised that people might be angry. Especially when ordinary people are struggling to survive, mostly due to huge profiteering by big businesses.
It’s immoral and obscene. Anyone who can’t understand that does not live on the same planet as the majority of us.
Is it true you can make money from online casino bonuses? If this is true could anybody tell me how please?
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