New Meme: Dems Are More Divided Than Republicans!
Republicans are circulating this quote from Mike Allen all over the place today, and it has the makings of a new meme:
NYT fronts story on GOP divisions, misses biggest story in politics: Democrats are the ones more divided now because of red-state fears that independents are taking flight.
Seems like a stretch to say that GOP division isn’t a big story, and trying to measure which party is more divided seems like a fool’s errand. That said, there is something to what Allen says, in this sense: Dem division is far more relevant than GOP division is, in terms of the impact it will have on Obama’s agenda, which is what matters right now.
It’s worth noting the motives of each party in painting the other as suffering greater turmoil and division. Dems are highlighting GOP divisions for purposes of national messaging. They want to permanently brand the GOP as hostage to extremists, keeping public confidence in the GOP low enough to limit Dem losses in 2010. The Dems’ focus on GOP division and extremism also seems designed to distract from their own internal tensions.
By contrast, the GOP efforts to highlight Dem division and the exodus of independents, while focused on 2010, is also about slowing down the Obama/Dem legislative agenda. The idea is to spook moderate Dems into dragging their feet even more on health care and cap and trade, in hopes that Dems will appear ineffective and unable to lead.
While health care looks very likely to pass this year, it’s not out of the question that Dem division will hamper significant parts of Obama’s agenda. Which is to say that Dem division is what matters in the real world right now. In the near term, GOP division — while real and perhaps a serious problem going into 2010 — is basically a sideshow.
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Arrrrrghghggggh!
The “turmoil” in the Democratic Party is a permanent fixture of the Democratic Party.
The Democrats have always been like a herd of cats.
The GOP being out of step is very out of character for the GOP. They do hang together.
Tena — that’s very true — GOP division is a new development. No question about it. It’s just irrelevant tho — the focus should be on moderate and “centrist” Dems…
Herd of cats. lol
or a herd of six month olds on a playground
Someone needs to look up what divided means and then think about whether it might apply to a party that controls 60% majorities in both houses of Congress but that cannot pass its job-killing agenda.
NYT fronts story on GOP divisions, misses biggest story in politics: Democrats are the ones more divided now because of red-state fears that independents are taking flight.
???? Dems. are always divided! That’s the unavoidable consequence of being a big tent party.
“I am a member of no organized party. I am a Democrat.”
- Will Rogers (who died in 1935)
Are we sure Mike Allen really knows which divides are going on? This gem of reporting, below, appeared third from the top of his reporting this morning. Right below birthdays and good morning and right above the explanation as to why Roger Simon has been out of the office.
“OVERHEARD: White House phone lines being lit up by a surprising number of reporters of all stripes angling for an invite to the White House holiday party – even reporters who don’t have a White House beat. The calls started months ago and are only increasing in intensity. The pressure is coming to a head because the invites are going to go out pretty soon.”
Basically, at the best of times, both parties are coalitions. The GOP has been very good at keeping their coaltion together and mostly on message right up until roughly 2005. It started unraveling before that, probably, but that’s when the cracks appeared.
Our coalition mainly suffers by depressing voter turnout. Our anarchists get pissed off and just give the whole thing the finger.
I am afraid for progressives. They seem to be alienated by Obama and deeply unhappy.
Have they forgotten how the dark side governs and what a risky game we play.
Greg, Divided dems = Old story. New bottle. And all that.
Lockstep repubs infighting. Now, that’s the new & real story. One that should be made to stick.
But I actually expect them to go back to their old lockstep ways by 2010. Only this time, the pied piper will be that twit from tundras.
Come on mittens & huckster. That dame is stepping on your dreams with her high heels.
Yeah, Greg even if you’re right you’re wrong. The familiar media channels, aka the Village, don’t do nuance like that or blurbs that take more than two steps of logic. Most will stop reporting at “Dems sown with division” ignoring that that is the way it is set up, and that it is relevant ONLY because Republicans have locked themselves out all legislation. Mike Allen doesn’t mean “Democrats are now debating how to move forward” he means “Democrats are running around on a burning sinking ship”. Sensationalism wins the day, especially for the likes of Politico.
One word sums it up:
P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N
OMFG! A CW spewing MSM Beltway asshat says silly Democrats are squabbling and divided! Unprecedented! Stop the presses! (Well, stop the ones that haven’t been sent to the scrapyard because their paper’s been driven under by the increasing vapidity of reporting caused by the corporatization of the news business, anyway). This is the scoop of the century!
Attaboy, Mike Allen! Way to win the hour(TM) for Politico!
“I am afraid for progressives. They seem to be alienated by Obama and deeply unhappy.
Have they forgotten how the dark side governs and what a risky game we play.”
Heather, basically, I think progressives like to complain but they usually vote Democratic. The only thing I worry about is voter turnout because that’s the ONLY thing that stands between Democrats and a long-term majority. There are more registered Democrats in this country than Republicans by a significant margin. I knew the numbers last year but I don’t now – I know the Republicans are down to about 21%, so the remainder are Democrats and Independents.
As long as we turn out we can win. What happens to our coalition is that our young voters are very easily discouraged.
“While health care looks very likely to pass this year, it’s not out of the question that Dem division will hamper significant parts of Obama’s agenda.”
What a bummer ! Not.
Stop playing Cassandra, Greg.
@Tena: That’s why the Republican problems are getting so much press; it’s very unusual for them to be so openly divided. They usually march in lockstep, and keep much of their division out of the press. Now, it’s front-and-center.
No one knows how Republicans will handle their turmoil, which is only likely to grow in the coming months. They haven’t resolved the “moderation is key” versus “‘real’ conservatism is the answer” conflicts.
Conversely, Democrats are notoriously divided, and often quite candid (a little too candid sometimes) about their disagreements. As such, it’s an ongoing issue that, because of its near perpetuity, has allowed Democrats to develop an ability to at least (so far) successfully manage it.
Additionally, I think it’s a bit premature to be framing Tuesday’s elections as an “exodus of independents.” That seems like an over-generalization. Independents still have net negative (drastic in some polls) views of Republicans and their policies. That would seem to preclude an “exodus.”
Instead, unique circumstances, such as independents being staunchly opposed to Corzine’s property tax increases, and perhaps Deeds’ candor about raising taxes to fund infrastructure projects if he had been elected in VA, caused them to consider the Republicans in these respective states.
Certainly, the elections offered some insight, most notably, about candidates, their platforms, state economic concerns, and maybe incumbency. But, I don’t the take-away lesson should be that independents are definitively, or even notably, moving away from Democrats, especially considering that Democrats actually picked up House seats in a competitive district and one that had not voted for a Democrat since the 1800s.
I fail to see how the gubernatorial races are instructive, but the Congressional races aren’t. A more complete assessment would concomitantly consider both.
“Stop playing Cassandra, Greg.”
All during the campaign, when Greg ran Election Central for TPM, I pointed those predictions of his out on a regular basis and jumped up and down and yelled: “You cannot come to that conclusion because you do not have enough information yet!”
You actually put it much more concisely and clearly.
Here’s and interesting footnote from The Democratic Strategist about Tuesdays election.
“Teixeira also points out that the GOP defeat NY-23 — one of the most staunchly conservative districts in America –provides a grim harbinger for a party that is now dominated by conservatives, and especially for “those in the party seeking to emulate the electoral strategies of Bob McDonnell in Virginia and Chris Christie in New Jersey,” both of whom tried to “cover up the conservatism of their views” on key issues. “That was relatively easy to do in governors’ races in an off-year election,” says Teixeira. “It will be harder for candidates to do in national elections in 2010 and especially 2012.”
“Additionally, I think it’s a bit premature to be framing Tuesday’s elections as an “exodus of independents.” That seems like an over-generalization. Independents still have net negative (drastic in some polls) views of Republicans and their policies. That would seem to preclude an “exodus.””
{{{Shriek!}}} It’s only an exodus of Independents if you totally ignore the fact that in the two elections that truly were about national issues, WE WON. We won two Congressional seats.
Gubernatorial races have almost no relation to who is in the White House – unless your state needed a special election cause your governor went to the White House and since Bush is gone, and Obama came from Congress, then there is no relation. Gubernatorial races are local.
Gubernatorial races are so local that I never read one article about any of the candidates running in Va or NJ. I got my information from ledes and comments – piecemeal.
Because I don’t live in New Jersey or Virginia and their governors have no real affect on my life. Every state’s Congressional representatives, however, do affect my life directly and I do pay attention to those races and donate to candidates running in other states.
I basically don’t much care who is governor anywhere besides Texas and New Mexico. I imagine most people feel the same.
Greg, I toldja.
via dkos
“The Senate environment committee this morning passed a sweeping climate change bill co-sponsored by Senator John F. Kerry.
The vote came without any Republican support — in fact, no GOP senators were present because they were boycotting the proceedings until a fuller economic analysis of the legislation.
The panel did not consider any amendments to the bill, which will now be merged with bills being written in other Senate committees, the Associated Press reports.”
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/11/senate_panel_pa.html?camp=localsearch:on:twit:pol
““The Senate environment committee this morning passed a sweeping climate change bill co-sponsored by Senator John F. Kerry.”
Awesome!
I like your birthdays, amk – cool things seem to happen on your birthday.
from the same dkos diarist
Shocking. Kate Sheppard of motherjones
“What is important is both the public appearance by Graham and the emergence of Lieberman as the third wingman. In his remarks, Graham seemed to distance himself from Republicans on the Environment and Public Works Committee that have thus far boycotted markup of the Kerry-Boxer bill. “My hope is that participation is seen as positive,” said Graham. “If you can’t participate in solving the problem, then why are you up here?”
…
Lieberman has been working with other senators on his own, particularly on the nuclear power issue, but this is his first public entry into the debate this year. Of course, Lieberman’s recent statements on health care have made him not the most popular legislator among Democrats, but he has a long history on climate legislation, dating back to the first climate bill in 2003, the McCain-Lieberman Climate Stewardship Act. “He’s been a great leader on climate in years past,” said Jeremy Symons, senior vice president of conservation and education at the National Wildlife Federation. “He has all sorts of ability to bring people together. He’s a great addition to the power team.”
Well, I guess some sense is coming back to the oppo senators. Bigger questions, what would frigginn conservadems (Greg’s pet peeves) would do ?
Sorry, linky to that dkos diary
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/5/800858/-Breaking:Global-Climate-Change-bill-passed-out-of-EPW-committee
I think Obama will likely be President for 8 years. He will bring minorities and many youth back to the table in 2012. But he will only have 60 dem votes in the Senate for 13 more months. We need to make the most of it.
heather – I co-sign your comment –
Tena, gee, thanks. I told ya we scorps are awesome.
I think Lindsey is turning out to be a moderate repub despite his ugly Clinton impeachment episode.
Guess prez’s bipartisanship attempts is yielding some results at last.
““He’s been a great leader on climate in years past,” sa”
I’ve always known that this is the crux of the problem with alienating Lieberman and the reason I believe Reid tries to avoid doing that.
Lieberman does vote with us on important legislation.
And if Graham is really as smart as he’s looking lately, he’ll quietly round up the moderates he can find and retake his party. Either that or form a 3d.
Allen’s an assshat and a ******; pay him no mind.
He’s simply in a race with Lewd Obbs to see which partisan Village idiot will be hired next by Focks Noose.
Actually, nearly *every* moron currently at politico appears to be hot for signing on with Focks….
For the record, the word censored from my post is “dou_che.”
“While health care looks very likely to pass this year, it’s not out of the question that Dem division will hamper significant parts of Obama’s agenda”
Hahahahahahahahahahaha, health care likely to pass this year? Give me a break. I guess this site missed the Reid press conference and the part about LIeberman filibustering the Senate Bill. Man, I guess those Dem talking points are too hard to resist on this site.
Mike Aleen??? HA! He even LOOKS like Limberger…Allen is a shill for the rethugs – pure and simple..If Rupe had a spot over at Cluster-Fox Allen would be in the top 5 to fill it…Just ahead of LouLou Dobbs….
Both hacks…..
@ Bob65: Speaking of dou_ches….
Somebody pass the ignorant hillbilly troll repellent, please.
Bob65IQ
@AMK,
Happy Birthday. Which leads me to:
My Question Of The Day.
Why is it called one’s birthday?
We do not call wedding anniversaries our wedding days, or the annual dates of when people died, their Death Days.
mikefromArlington – “or a herd of six month olds on a playground”
You know what it really is like? Being on a rollercoaster with an entire class of middle school students. Some are screaming, some are barfing, some are laughing and some are just holding on for dear life.
LOL!
“I think Lindsey is turning out to be a moderate repub despite his ugly Clinton impeachment episode.”
To the degree that he is somewhere to the left of Attila the Hun I’d agree..considering most righties now days make Mussolini look progressive.
I think Graham is that vanishing breed of conservative who attempts to inject a little good old fashioned pragmatism into the debate. It’s not like I’d vote for him but I do give him props for thinking of the country as much as his party.
When Graham claims green energy is the future of the world economy and we can either lead or fall behind our competitors like China he is actually only stating the obvious..whether your conservative or progressive…unless of course you have your head up your ****** like Inhoff and Bob65.
@Tena…like your rollercoaster analogy…as it’s oft been said…if nothing else progressives certainly know how to have fun…as opposed to uptight conservatives…I mean imagine going to a cocktail party with Michelle Malkin or Laura Ingraham…wouldn’t want to have a beer with either of those ladies…but if I had to be at the party…I hope they’d supply copious quantities of Vodka!
Thx Liam. Your question is too profound for a kid who just turned 50 to answer.
I second pretty much all of you on the Allen is a hack angling for hits assesment. That bit that Andy linked to is comedy gold. The invites to the party that’s what matters!
“I mean imagine going to a cocktail party with Michelle Malkin or Laura Ingraham…”
Have you noticed that they try way too hard? That’s because the root of the right’s anger and resentment is just what you are talking about. The young rightwing really is all about revenge of the nerds. The right got mad because they were always portrayed in the popular culture in ways that truly reflected how people feel and they didn’t like what they saw.
This is particularly true of the religious right. They went after popular culture with a vengeance and harassed the hell out of the media over their “unfair” treatment.
mk | November 5th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Thx Liam. Your question is too profound for a kid who just turned 50 to answer.
……………….
I have a couple of decades on you, so to me, you are still just a youngster. Again; Happy Birth Date.
I noticed that you said that you were having trouble reading the blue links. I can see them OK, and I have some vision impairment issues, that are age related, and also from being a long time diabetic.
What color screen background are you displaying? I found that a white background works best for me. to get the best text contrast, and the blue links show up just fine.
Thx Liam. My screen background is white. I just can’t differentiate easily between the blue and the black letters. I have to either get close to the monitor or run my cursor over the text to see the underlined link.
“Teixeira also points out that the GOP defeat NY-23 — one of the most staunchly conservative districts in America…”
Yeah, it is so staunchly conservative that it voted for Obama last year.
Man it is absolutely freakin hilarious to try and watch people try to spin the NJ and VA races as having no national implication, while at the same time claiming NY-23 is some huge deal. Sorry, but only the Obamabots are buying it.
“Have you noticed that they try way too hard? That’s because the root of the right’s anger and resentment is just what you are talking about. The young rightwing really is all about revenge of the nerds. The right got mad because they were always portrayed in the popular culture in ways that truly reflected how people feel and they didn’t like what they saw.”
It is always hilarious reading pop psychology from people who have no clue what they are talking about.
“Lieberman does vote with us on important legislation.”
Except for health care.
“And if Graham is really as smart as he’s looking lately, he’ll quietly round up the moderates he can find and retake his party. Either that or form a 3d.”
Graham form a 3rd party? Man, there are some really stupid people on this message board.
an “exodus.””
“{{{Shriek!}}} It’s only an exodus of Independents if you totally ignore the fact that in the two elections that truly were about national issues, WE WON. We won two Congressional seats.”
Yeah, you are right. Those VA and NJ elections had nothing to do with the national scene. Which is why Democratic bigwigs like Obama and Biden weren’t campaigning in NJ and VA. Corzine and Obama never stated that Corzine was a partner for Obama’s national agenda. Deeds and McDonnell were never asked about national issues during the debate. Oh, wait….
You people really, really need to get out of the echo-chamber, because no one is buying your argument about NJ and VA.
Hey stoopid bob. Who you talking to ? People have left the building. Now turn off the lights and go home.
@AMK,
His full name is;
Bob65IQ