Whither Dems? GOPers Say They Should Move To Center
Republicans are already capitalizing on yesterday’s results to urge Dems to move to the political center — and a debate is going to break out among Dems over whether that’s the right course or whether Dems need to firm up their base.
The NRCC immediately moved to trumpet that message, blasting out an analysis of the race moments ago claiming that the GOP’s victory in Virginia “should send shivers down the spines of four Virginia House Democrats in GOP crosshairs next year,” emphasizing that the GOP successfully “peeled independent voters away from Democrats.”
Even as the results were still trickling in, GOP Rep Eric Cantor was already warning that the results were an early rumble under the feet of marginal Dems, arging that voters had delivered “a shot across the bow to the moderates and Blue Dog Democrats as they decide votes on health care.”
Dems will begin to debate the way forward in earnest today, and both sides will look for data in yesterday’s returns to prove their point. Easily-rattled moderate and centrist Dems will interpret yesterday’s data — particularly the drift of independents away from Dems — as proof that they need to be more legislatively cautious. Dems are already talking about delaying health care until next year.
But it’s unclear whether independents backed Bob McDonnell and Chris Christie because they’re unhappy with the direction health care reform and cap and trade have taken in Washington. Indeed, other analysts are pointing out that a key factor yesterday was a big “enthusiasm gap” between Dems and Republicans. One might read that as a sign that Dems need to attend to their base going forward.
Anyway, that’s where the debate is headed today. We’ll be tracking it here.
Update: Markos Moulitsas comes down squarely in favor of pumping the base.
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Taking advice from the GOP is taking advice from your opponent, and that should answer the question all by itself.
Especially since the Democrats already represent both the left and also the center. The GOP is so far off to the right it regards America’s historic center as dangerously leftist.
Pass HCR with a strong public option, and the base will be more than pleased.
If Democrats are dumb enough to take election advice from Eric Cantor and the NRCC…they deserve to get booted out of office.
You don’t run to the center to win mid-term elections, you turn out the base.
Ask Creigh Deeds – the latest dumbf*** Democrat to run a “centrist” campaign (their words) and get his a** handed to him. Fool.
Greg
Which Dems are talking about delaying HCR until next year, I want to be sure to call their offices. And whatever Eric Cantor suggests Dems should be doing let’s definitely do the opposite.
We lost two Governorships but picked up to House seats, isn’t everyone over-reacting just a tad. Bilgeman notwithstanding, I think we’re fine and the best thing to do politically is keep legislating without the Repubs. and figure out a way to get people back to work.
GOP’s concern for dems is touching… But I expect the “moderate” conserva dems will now start spouting repub talking points.
lmsinca – the head honcho himself – mr reed.
Obama ran as a centrist-conservative. He isn’t and wasn’t, of course, but he portrayed as one.
“Especially since the Democrats already represent both the left and also the center. The GOP is so far off to the right it regards America’s historic center as dangerously leftist.”
Delusion persists on your side.
The comments above are on the mark.
Don’t take “advice” from your adversary. Duh!
As for the media, well, if they unquestioningly accept the GOP spin, then we know Drudge rocks their world and the “liberal media” is just one more GOP spin item successfully embedded in “the Village.”
And speaking of HCR here’s a really good post from Jonathan Cohn comparing the Dem’s Health Care bills and what the Repubs are floating around as HCR. It really hightlights the differences and is worth a read.
“And that’s really the key distinction between what the Republicans and the Democrats are offering. Because of their aversion to regulation and government spending, Republicans embrace reforms that make health insurance cheaper by offering less security. The healthy win, while everybody else loses. Democrats prefer reforms that offer a combination of lower costs and more security–not just for the medically fortunate, but for everybody.”
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/beware-republican-narrative
When Bush had 90% approval ratings in 2001, VA voted in Mark Warner, a Democrat, into the Governors office.
Do you think that was a referendum on Bush because he was too conservative?
Creigh Deeds declared he would teabag the public option if he was allowed to. Since he won so handily after barking such right-wing talking point, and at the same time that hippie Garemendi was getting smoked out in Callyfornyia, and the CLub for Growth was winning massive victories with its TABOR amendments in Washington and Maine, I think it is fair to say that Demoncrats should definitely shift to the right.
Why would anyone take political advice from their political opponents?
amk and Greg, are you sure about the delay?
“A few hours later, Reid’s office revised his remarks. “Our goals remain unchanged. We want to get health insurance reform done this year, and we have unprecedented momentum to achieve that. There is no reason why we can’t have a transparent and thorough debate in the Senate and still send a bill to the president by Christmas,” said spokesman Jim Manley.”
And didn’t I read somewhere that the House has reached a compromise on Abortion language and is planning a vote by this weekend?
lmsinca, that’s interesting. link?
4 words:
PASS. HEALTH. CARE. REFORM.
“Democrats prefer reforms that offer a combination of lower costs.”
Really? I haven’t seen any evidence that Democratic proposals will actually lower costs. At best, I believe they mighty slow the rate of growth in costs. And that’s the problem for many people. I’d like to see more people insured, and I’d like to see the cost of private health insurance premiums and the cost of medical procedures go down. The current proposals simply won’t achieve those goals.
“Respected experts from both ends of the ideological spectrum have said they believe these changes will, in fact, restrain the growth of medical costs in the future.”
lmsinca – it was over at HP. But then reed is a pillar of resolve, dontchaknow.. (rolls eyes).
CNN / Opinion Research Corporation
10/30-11/1/09; 952 registered voters, 3% margin of error
Mode: Live telephone interviews
(CNN release)
National
2010 House: Generic Ballot
50% Democratic Candidate, 44% Republican candidate
Would you say you will definitely vote for the _____, or is it possible you would change your mind between now and the election?
27% Definitely Democratic, 23% Democratic could change, 22% Republican could change, 22% Definitely Republican
Would you be more likely to vote for a candidate for Congress who supports President Obama, or more likely to vote for a candidate who opposes President Obama?
54% Supports Obama 41% Opposes Obama
Looks like the new GOP marketing strategy is paying off:
http://bit.ly/fxv3G
(satire)
@sbj
“I’d like to see the cost of private health insurance premiums and the cost of medical procedures go down.”
So that would mean that you are a single-payer advocate?
Glad to have you on board!
Already the headline on Yahoo is “A message to Obama” or somesuch. More likely an attempt for readership.
If there’s trouble brewing for Dems in ‘10, then I will pay attention, but two governors? Gimme a break-meanwhile the teabaggers will continue with their Keystone Cops bit. LOL!
I agree with Ethan above: Pass. Healthcare. Reform. Now.
Ethan, you have to take generic ballot preference polls with a grain of salt. They almost always indicate a preference for Dems., regardless of what’s going on or who actually wins or loses anything.
I also think passing credible health care reform legislation now is a good strategy. A persistent source of dissatisfaction regarding Dems. is perceived impotence and incompetence. Passing health care reform legislation has been a persistent wish of the voters for decades. I think seeing it done credibly and sooner rather than later will probably help Dems. to shrug off that damaging voters’ perception of them.
As posted on the previous thread:
Deeds: Lame-asss “conservadem” dodo, in way over his head; should never have been the D candidate in the first place. His opponent won by cunningly disavowing and hiding everything for which he (Deeds’ opponent) ever stood, and being permitted to get away with it. VA will suffer as a result.
Corzine: A deeply unpopular, arrogant slug with a sense of entitlement, replaced by an overweight, deeply unpopular, arrogant slug with an aversion to obeying the law. It will be disastrous for NJ, and they richly deserve Christie Chris. Bend over, Joisey — you ain’t seen *nuthin’* yet!
NY-23: Teabaggers (and their spinny-eyed, know-nothing, carpetbagging minion with poor dental hygiene) massively humiliated and royally discredited. A virulent pox on all their political houses.
Democrats “move” to the center? They’re already there. There’s really very little that Democrats have proposed that is so radical. (A majority of the public supports a public option. Most Democrats support a public option.) Now when there are actual items that require something of the public, there is pushback. But that’s a bipartisan problem: if we had actually been asked to pay for two wars, or cut programs for our tax cuts, or pay for Medicare’s prescription drug benefit, there would have been pushback during the Bush years too.
This attempt to spin election results in either direction is pretty absurd. If Republicans had held the VA and NJ governors offices going into this election, they’d be having a tough time too: the worst economy in 80 years is a bad time to be a chief executive regardless of one’s policies. And NY-23 is hardly a referendum on the nation; it’s one district in one state with a truly bizarre set of circumstances.
These were local elections held under very specific conditions. We should admit we have no idea what things will look like nationally a year from now, and there are few lessons to be drawn from them. Those trying to do so are engaging more in ideological showmanship than serious analysis.
To get away from all the “soul searching”, you should go see Jon Stewart and his hilarious “election panel”. If any of the msm types has an inkling of self-respect, he/she should hang him/herself after seeing it.
Jesus – these were not just local elections, they were special elections.
I really like watching the GOP get all overconfident.
“So that would mean that you are a single-payer advocate?”
No. But I might be persuaded that the govt should more aggressively set the prices for some procedures. The problem with that is that these lower prices would not cover the actual cost of health care. So the cost would have to be shifted to some entity (currently the cost of health care that Medicare does not cover is shifted to private insurance). I’m not sure that doing away with private insurance will reduce the cost of health care – just the price. The cost will still have to be covered somehow. If you remove private insurers then who will cover the cost that is not covered by artificially low prices mandated by the govt?
I’m not an expert. I’m not sure how we can get a grip on the cost of health care – but everything I’ve seen so far indicates that the Democratic proposals do nothing to reduce costs.
Greg
Sorry for not supplying link to Manley’s statement, I cut and pasted from HuffPo I think this morning but now I can’t find it.
A sensible dkos diary.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/4/799665/-NY-23:The-LessonWere-Neglecting-Party-Building-
And let us never forget those stirring, profound, original, and oh-so-prophetic words of the Teabaggers’ Pied Piper, Sarah “Cruella Wasilla” Palin:
“Hoffman, Baby, Hoffman!”
LMAO! Ol’ “Cash and Carry Sarah” sure has the magic touch, eh?
How many more Gee Oh Pee elections will this mercenary nincompoop destroy?
Let’s ask John McCain. LOL LOL
SBJ,
Why not do it the true Libertarian way? Stop providing Insurance Coverage to people. Let them all fend for their selves. That will bring the cost down dramatically, and it will also be a great boost to the undertaker industry. A Win Win, The Libertarian Way.
I am sure, as a real Libertarian, you can get behind that proposal. Please cancel your employer provided health coverage today, and get back to your true Libertarian self. Put your life where your mouth is.
Well Greg. Your prediction (or curse ?) about conservadems has come home to roost.
“Vulnerable House and Senate Democrats want their leaders to skip the party’s controversial legislative agenda for next year to help save their seats in Congress.
In the run-up to the 2010 midterm elections, they don’t want to be forced to vote on climate change, immigration reform and **** in the military, which they say should be set aside so Congress can focus on jobs and the economy.
“It’s hard; the most important issue in front of us is the economy right now, and that’s where most of us really want to stay focused, the economy and jobs, that’s what our constituency is concerned about,” said Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D), who is facing a tough race next year in Arkansas.”
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/66219-democratic-angst-over-10
amk – that is a good diary you linked to. Very sensible and It think the author is right.
Liam: The Sarah Palin of The Plum Line.
sbj : the dishonest troll of plum line.
Greg, I found the quote from Manley, it’s about 7 paragraphs down.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/03/harry-reid-health-care-bi_n_344222.html
@amk
If our media was compotent…the next question to Lincoln would be:
“Pres. Obama has repeatedly insisted that health care reform – including a public option – is cruial for fixing our economy and creating jobs. Are you saying the President is wrong in his assesment?”
Then when she hand-wrings and dances around an answer…you ask her again.
“If the president had been asked by an exit poller yesterday ‘are you concerned about the economy,’ he would have answered yes,” Gibbs said.
amk – ““Vulnerable House and Senate Democrats want their leaders to skip the party’s controversial legislative agenda for next year to help save their seats in Congress.”
Well that’s brilliant, considering we pickedup 3 House seats while losing 2 governors, which ought to make it clear that nationally, the Democrats are in favor.
Local suxxy Democrats have problems locally.
as mikefrom Arlington said on the lower thread:
In 2001 Bush had 90% approval ratings.
In 2001, Mark Warner(D) won the gubernatorial race in VA.
Just saying.
Also.
Dems just picked up two seats. Republicans zero.
Dems picked up a seat they haven’t seen in 150 years.
What’s that mean?
Democrats picked up 2, not 3 seats.
BBQ – competent media – an oxymoron
Another reason to be outright ELATED at the NY-23 win:
The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) spent more than $1 million on the race, while the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC) spent most of its $900,000 opposing Owens, even though the expenditures occurred before Scozzafava’s exit.
Third party groups led by the Club for Growth played heavily for Hoffman. The Club’s spending rivaled the major party committees for much of the race.
http://thehill.com//homenews/campaign/66237-democrats-win-in-ny-plays-spoiler-for-gop
So not only did the Conservative message fail to convince NYers, but they spent TWICE AS MUCH as the Dems on advertising (in addition to the hours of free advertising on Faux Propaganda and in the MSM).
With that much effort and still lose solidly, wow. The Right Wing GOP brand is dog food.
If our media was compotent…the next question to Lincoln would be:
“Pres. Obama has repeatedly insisted that health care reform – including a public option – is cruial for fixing our economy and creating jobs. Are you saying the President is wrong in his assesment?”
Then when she hand-wrings and dances around an answer…you ask her again.
But, but, but, if they do that she’ll stop giving them dirt off the record, and we can’t have that!!!!!!
House HCR Whip Count:
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/66091-current-house-healthcare-bill-whip-count
SBJ,
Why not do it the true Libertarian way? Stop providing Insurance Coverage to people. Let them all fend for their selves. That will bring the cost down dramatically, and it will also be a great boost to the undertaker industry. A Win Win, The Libertarian Way.
I am sure, as a real Libertarian, you can get behind that proposal. Please cancel your employer provided health coverage today, and get back to your true Libertarian self. Put your life where your mouth is.
…………………………..
Well, it looks like SBJ wants to duck this question, and instead call me “Sarah Palin”. How quickly he has turned on Quiter Palin.
Apparently SBJ is only A Libertarian on Other People’s Lives, but never his own. Which reaffirms the fact that he is not really A Libertarian, but merely a selfish prick.
@ SBJ “I’m not an expert. I’m not sure how we can get a grip on the cost of health care – but everything I’ve seen so far indicates that the Democratic proposals do nothing to reduce costs.”
For once we are in agreement. That is because we have yet to truly talk about HEALTH CARE reform. What we have really been debating is HEALTH INSURANCE reform and who will pay.
There is a ton of money left in the HEALTH CARE system…staring with “procedure based” medicine. As long as we attach compensation to procedures in a capitalist society…SURPRISE…we get tons of duplicated and unneccessary procedures. Watch many of the Doc like the infamous Neurosurgeon David McKalip of Teabag fame scream to the high heavens about limiting their ability to generate wealth. Cleveland Clinic and Mayo Clinic have already done this with great success paying their Docs salaries unrelated to the number or type of procedures they do.
Like you SBJ I am no expert and I’m not sure how to make this transistion…but when my right wing cardiologist brother in law has to leave a group because two Foreign doctors came in and started doing an inordinate number of cardiac caths….well simply follow the money. The same phenomenon occurs when a group gets a fancy new piece of test equipment and voila..suddenly many more tests are ordered to pay for and achieve a PROFIT with the new piece of equipment.
And of course if we really want to talk about HEALTH CARE and not simply insurance reform…let’s all loook inthe mirror. Drop the ciggies, cut back on the booze…exercise a bit..mix in a salad or two and drop some lbs…we are an OBESE nation.
Lest I shake your liberterian cage too hard SBJ..I’m not talking about outlawing bad lifestyle choices…but I have no problem with punitive taxes.
If I had to pay an additional buck for my martinis with the money going straight into the health care system I’d have no problem…same goes for Big Macs..weed if they ever legalize it…there is still a lot we could do if we weren’t in this constanct state of political paralysis.
“How quickly he has turned on Quiter Palin.”
I’m sorry – were you under the impression that I was a big fan of hers?
SBJ,
You two faced fraud. You voted for Sarah Palin to be Vice President of the nation.
@rukidding: “For once we are in agreement. That is because we have yet to truly talk about HEALTH CARE reform. What we have really been debating is HEALTH INSURANCE reform and who will pay.”
I think that lmsinca has pointed out that the Democratic proposals DO indeed contain some welcome modifications to the health care system. Unfortunately (IMO) the conversation has become stuck on the health insurance industry. Resistance to changes in that area threaten to derail other areas of h/c reform where there might actually be agreement. Perhaps the Republicans were not so crazy to suggest that we tackle health care reform incrementally? It seems to me that efforts lately to reform “comprehensively” rather than incrementally is a prescription for failure.
“You two faced fraud. You voted for Sarah Palin to be Vice President of the nation.”
Not a fraud – simply the lesser of two evils.
SBJ,
Claims he is “A Libertarian” but in the last election he voted for Quitter Palin, and not the “The Libertarian candidates”, and now SBJ claims that he has never been a supporter of Quitter Palin.
Looks like SBJ either votes for those that he does not support, and against the candidate of the party he claims to belong to, or what is far more likely; SBJ can not keep track of his lies, and keeps getting tripped up.
Wasn’t the Libertarian candidate Barr?
yeech!
There’s not a lie in there, Liam. You didn’t vote for Gore/Lieberman?
sbj-
“lesser of two evils’. Funniest thing I’ll probably read all day. Thanks.
# ChuckinDenton | November 4th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
sbj-
“lesser of two evils’. Funniest thing I’ll probably read all day. Thanks.
……………………….
Chuck,
Especially since the worst thing that he thought he could call me was that I was “Sarah Palin”. So he voted for her, even though he uses her name as a derogatory expression.
“lesser of two evils’. Funniest thing I’ll probably read all day. Thanks.”
My pleasure! And thank you for the compliment.
“Not a fraud – simply the lesser of two evils.”
Sweet surfin’ Jesus!
No, the problem for Dems is just the reverse of needing to move to the center. See http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/12875 on what’s going down in VA.