Poll: Majority Prefers Dem-Only Bill With Public Option To Bipartisan Bill Without One
This finding, from the nonpartisan Research 2000 poll for DailyKos, really challenges the conventional wisdom that the public is adamantly opposed to Democrats passing their own health care bill without any GOP support.
I haven’t seen the question framed this way before, and done this way, it sheds new light on the public’s attitude towards bipartisanship for its own sake:
Which of the following scenarios do you prefer/ do you prefer?
Getting a health care bill with the choice of a strong public health insurance option to compete with private insurance plans that’s supported only by Democrats in Congress, OR Getting a health care bill with no public option that has the support of Democrats and a handful of Republicans?
Public option: 52%
No public option: 39%
A majority prefers getting a Dem-only bill with a public option rather than a bill without one that has the support of a few Republicans. And more independents, too, favor the partisan public-option bill, 47%-42%.
It’s true that other polls have found that majorities prefer that the final bill be bipartisan. But here’s the rub: The previous polls asked the question in isolation — do you want a bipartisan bill, or a partisan one — without explaining to respondents that winning over Republicans could result in actual policy consequences that they might not like. The above is a more accurate framing of the choice the public — and lawmakers — face right now.
When Americans are asked whether they’re prepared to sacrifice the public option for the sake of having a bipartisan bill, a majority says No and opts for the partisan bill. That suggests people may care far more about getting a public option than they do about getting bipartisanship for its own sake.
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Did Kos just pay for this poll, or did he provide the phone numbers for the “adults” also?
Finally. The Repubs have painted themselves into the NO corner and the public doesn’t particularly like them that much. There could have been some agreement and concessions but they only wanted their so-called reform ideas to pass.
Here’s another corner. 84% of Americans supported having the Olympics in Chicago.
Oh c’mon, Greg! That’s not the choice at all. The DEMs are the ones who are preventing the passage of a bill with a strong public option. It’s not “winning over Republicans” that is causing policy consequences – it’s winning over Democrats!
Did Kos just pay for thZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz….
Interesting; Mike Lux just wrote an article about common sense gaining on the ‘conventional wisdom’ as well. It’s at HuffPo, too, but here’s the Open Left post (where I linked and quote this post about the poll).
http://www.openleft.com/diary/15372/common-sense-slowly-winning-out-our-conventional-wisdom
Just read that openleft article.
If we get a **** bill from the Dems that messes with peoples insurance in any negative way at all and doesn’t end up lowering costs over time, I’m sorry, but the Dems get what they deserve. It’ll teach them that no matter how many contributions you get, none of that matters if you don’t have any influence in the House/Senate because you are in a substantial minority because the electorate voted you out.
RSR
Mike Lux always gives me hope.
sbj
We know already that it’s up to the Dems, these polls put more and more pressure on the Conserva Dems in the Senate and Blue Dogs in the Congress. It’s getting harder and harder to keep a public option out of the bill and they can’t use bi-partisanship as an excuse anymore.
c*r*a*p
Really? Are we five?
sbj, that’s not quite accurate. the point is that centrist Dems are queasy about supporting the PO precisely because it can’t get GOP support and because they’re worried about the politics of supporting a Dem-only bill. This suggests that if the public gets the PO they won’t care about bipartisanship for its own sake. That would allow Dems to support it w/o Repubs.
From Reagan to the present day, The Republicans have never attempted to Pass a Health Care Reform Bill, or a Clean Air, and Water Bill.
OBSTRUCTION IS NOT A SOURCE FOR SOLUTIONS.
REPUBLICANS ALWAYS PRETEND THAT IT IS.
Liam,
You may want to go back ad do some research before you make such a blanket statement I suggest you start with NEPA, CWA, CAA, RCRA, CERCLA if you don’t know what the acronymsmean then you are WAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD and should just STFU
Your reply to bj is well said Greg.
There are a few reasons this poll might not sway conservaDems. 60+ prefer no option 50 to 43%. In the ’south’ no option is preferred 54 to 47%. And (unless I misread methodology) this is NOT a poll of likely voters. (Let’s not forget that this poll is not broken down by districts, either.)
I am also not convinced that conservaDems are against the public option solely because it would not be bipartisan – can you back that up? I think the conservaDems are probably voting No due to a variety of factors: sincere belief it’s a bad idea, political contributions from industry, conservative district/not wanting to be associated with liberal policies.
In fact, some conservative outfit was just sending out Thank You’s to SFC members who voted against both PO amendments. They pointedly did NOT thank Baucus – presumably because he is the only No vote who actually supports the PO but votes against it because he doesn’t think it can clear the 60 vote hurdle.
Greg:
The above is a more accurate framing of the choice the public — and lawmakers — face right now.
Perhaps, but it is still not entirely accurate, for it doesn’t inform the respondents of the costs involved. It also assumes that the respondents actually know what a “public health insurance option” entails.
I wonder what the response would be to a poll which asked “Do you want the government to establish and operate an insurance company backed by federal tax dollars?”
sbj, I’ll do you the favor of posting your response to every single issue so you never have to post again:
“Didja ever notice … I am not convinced.”
Now go away.
You can also play with wording:
“Getting a health care bill with the choice of a government run health insurance option to compete with private insurance plans that’s supported only by Democrats in Congress, OR Getting a health care bill with health insurance co-ops to compete with private insurance plans that has bipartisan support?”
A new poll, the results of which have been made available to Firedoglake, shows a clear majority of the country—51%—thinks big corporations have too much power, amounting to a problem for our economy. On the flip side, just 22% think the same of “big labor unions.”
Even better news for unions: the same poll shows 54% of the public sees unions as favorable, compared to just 38% unfavorable.
http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/02/exclusive-new-poll-shows-clear-majorities-distrust-big-corporations-favor-unions/
It also does not inform the public about the 44,000 people who die each year, because the have no health care coverage.
Republicans know the cost of every thing, and the value of nothing.
Cost Cost Cost is all those selfish parrots can ever squawk, unless their Republican Admn is pissing two trillion dollars away in Iraq. No concern about costs from those Cost Cost Cost parrots, then.
No squawking from the Cost Parrots, when The Republicans forked over hundreds of billions to the Wall St. Robber Barons.
Over a million Americans died in the past twenty five years, because the Republicans made sure that those people did not have access to universal health care.
Right To Lifers, My Arse!
@Greg: Your theory is that centrist Dems are queasy about supporting the PO because it can’t get GOP support.
Consider the Stimulus bill. It was modified to appease three GOP members and still received bare majority support with many conservaDems unswayed by the “bipartisan” nature of the bill.
I think it is clear that more is at play here than a simple unwillingness to support the PO without some GOP support. They do not want to be associated with the liberal agenda that Obama is pushing.
Iam,
Ummm, which of those acts, exactly, is it that you think was passed since January 20, 1981?
Let me help. NONE.
NEPA–1969
CWA–1972 (override of Nixon’s veto)
CAA–1963
RCRA–1976
CERCLA–1980
Can you back that 44,000 number up or do you parrot the propaganda. Aging you might want to look at the study an see how they derived this number but like any good LEFTY THEOLOGY. If you have A and you could + B then maybe it will = C You then drop A and B and Start over with C as fact because you have data that created then multiply C x D and get Q which is FACT!!!! XD
The thing is – if they pass a Dem only bill… and they get it wrong – then it’s on their heads – and they know it.
Congress doesn’t have a set, so when it comes time to put up or shut up.. they may just shut up.
They are reaping the consequences of the stimulus bill – those job numbers are horrible – and they said the stimulus bill would keep umemployment lower. They were very wrong.
I wonder what the response would be to a poll which asked “Do you want the government to establish and operate an insurance company backed by federal tax dollars as seniors have with Medicare or would you rather continue with private, for-profit insurance companies where senior executives are commonly paided multi-million dollar slaries (plus bonuses) and where your premiums go to investors in Saudi Arabia, Korea, and Upper Khazahkstan?”
Lots of ways to ask this question depending on what answer you want to get.
Iam,
You are a lying moron, so you STFU. I said from Reagan to the present day, and you list stuff from before Reagan. Get lost you worthless lying ArseTroll.
Again:
From Reagan to the present day, The Republicans have never attempted to Pass a Health Care Reform Bill, or a Clean Air, and Water Bill.
OBSTRUCTION IS NOT A SOURCE FOR SOLUTIONS.
REPUBLICANS ALWAYS PRETEND THAT IT IS.
Looks like Dems are taking some shots at T-Paw already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PbEs26zUNk
Again: Because the Right Wingers Still have not voiced an objections to the Trillions that they squandered in Iraq, and on Wall St. They are not for Fiscal Restraint. They are for Breaking The Treasury to Enrich The Robber Barons.
It also does not inform the public about the 44,000 people who die each year, because the have no health care coverage.
Republicans know the cost of every thing, and the value of nothing.
Cost Cost Cost is all those selfish parrots can ever squawk, unless their Republican Admn is pissing two trillion dollars away in Iraq. No concern about costs from those Cost Cost Cost parrots, then.
No squawking from the Cost Parrots, when The Republicans forked over hundreds of billions to the Wall St. Robber Barons.
Over a million Americans died in the past twenty five years, because the Republicans made sure that those people did not have access to universal health care.
Right To Lifers, My Arse!
@bernie: “Lots of ways to ask this question depending on what answer you want to get.”
Exactly my point. We agree! – the poll is worthless and ’suggests’ nothing.
Bernie:
Lots of ways to ask this question depending on what answer you want to get.
I agree. That was my point.
sbj:
Beat me to it.
Look Folks, A Circle Jerk by the Resident Right Wingers.
They all agree that Polls that they disagree with, should be asked in a way that would provide results that they want, and they also agree that the poll results that they favor, should not be asked in a different manner.
What makes you both think that the question that was asked was biased?
Getting a health care bill with the choice of a strong public health insurance option to compete with private insurance plans that’s supported only by Democrats in Congress, OR Getting a health care bill with no public option that has the support of Democrats and a handful of Republicans?
Is a legitimate question.
“Do you want the government to establish and operate an insurance company backed by federal tax dollars as seniors have with Medicare or would you rather continue with private, for-profit insurance companies where senior executives are commonly paided multi-million dollar slaries (plus bonuses) and where your premiums go to investors in Saudi Arabia, Korea, and Upper Khazahkstan?”
Is a leading question.
So please tell us all why the first is not legit in your disturbed eyes.
sbj & Scott C
You both missed the point IMHO. To me the poll is more about bi-partisanship than the public option. And I realize bi-partisanship is not the only concern of Blue Dogs etc. But one by one their objections to the PO are being whittled away.
BTW, here’s more from Schmidt at the Atlantic’s First Draft of History Conference.
“One of the things that hurt us very badly [during the campaign] and I think that this was not John McCain’s fault… was that the conservative agenda — largely enacted — I think exhausted itself,” he added. “There were no new ideas. And we would have policy meetings in the campaign and there would be a lowest common denominator product that would emerge; no innovative thinking, no new ideas, and I would joke around at the time and say ‘Well, I guess we will continue to run on our platform of tax cuts for the wealthy and endless war.’ It was a little gallows humor inside the campaign. But it underlined a serious point.”
Two things beat McCain. Sarah Palin, and the Financial meltdown, plus his overreaction to it.
Prophetic Satire.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784
–Mere days from assuming the presidency and closing the door on eight years of Bill Clinton, president-elect George W. Bush assured the nation in a televised address Tuesday that “our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over.”
Prophetic Satire.
I remember that one very well.
Love it.
>>>So please tell us all why the first is not legit in your disturbed eyes.<<<
***crickets***
Ethan:
So please tell us all why the first is not legit…
I already did in my original. There is no way of knowing what respondents understand the phrase “a strong public health insurance option” to mean, or that they all understand it to mean the same thing that the questioner understood it to mean.
healthnut-
Seeing as how a fraction of the stimulus has been spent so far, a little early to be doing the chicken-little dance, dontcha think?
liam-
…and Obama. And Obama’s reaction to McCain: “A president has to be able to do many things at once”. Possibly the best /snark from the campaign!
It is not legit, because he does not like the results. If he liked them, then he would have loved how the questions where phrased.
@Imsinca
Your post quote makes a good point. The Republican agenda in general, and as articulated by McCain in specific, isn’t/wasn’t very inspiring. When they were in power, they didn’t manage to do many of the things they promised.
The “we’ve going to h*ll slower than the Democrats, and more efficiently” didn’t do much for me.
There’s a lot that could be improved, from a better energy policy to elimination of subsidies to the obscene mess that is the US tax code. But its hard to get elected on that.
Conservatives have the structural campaign problem that they are often selling “eat your vegetables” rather than free ice cream.
A lot of people voted for McCain holding their nose, as the “lesser of two evils” choice. I was one. I might have stayed home if it had been Obama vs. Huckabee.
According to this poll, 5% think we can get Republicans to support the public option. That is the difference between how many want a public option and how many want it with bipartisan support.
That shows why we need health care, there is no way we’ll get GOP support.
The smartest people in the world learn from everyone and everything – to dismiss what lessons can be learned in a foreign country – because it is a foreign country or has some other not so envious condition is to be blind – completely blind and closed off to ideas. That’s not a very smart way to find solutions. You pick and choose from the best of what works. You leave behind the bad habits or missteps and learn from the mistakes of others. Check your red, white and blue arrogance at the door if you really want to learn anything and live in a better more peaceful, stable, equitable and sustainable world.
The fact remains that big insurance by refusing care to patients and reimbursement to doctors over typos has ticked everyone off – both patients and doctors.
They have a virtual monopoly over the whole process a hugely well financed lobby team and representatives on both sides of the isle.
At the end of the day healthcare reform is about the take down of a system that is squeezing profits out of everyone so hard that it is crippling the economy.
A friend of mine recently laid off without children – just he and his spouse is paying $2,500.00 dollars a month for his COBRA – that is outrageous. Health insurance costs more than his mortgage – unbelievable.
If you think the status quo is going to self regulate – in any market sector, insurance, timber, big pharma, finance, coal, oil, or nuclear – then you don’t know how the “real” world works.
From the guy who runs a Kinko’s worrying about the Copy Connection opening up down the street – every single individual business man wants to “corner” the market.
It’s up to the people through the execution of laws to unlock their grip when it harms the overall markets.
Individual corporations work at cross hairs to the health of the overall market. Self interest isn’t good for the overall health of the markets when it runs rampant and chokes off the competition smothering and in some cases outlawing innovation, technology, advancement, and invention. We all loose then.
The “free market system” is a myth and if left to its own devise as so many corporatist trust it should – it leads to anarchy – boom, bubble and bust and hyper economic cycles once every 15 years.
The markets crave and deserve stability. That’s why foreign countries invest here in our Country. Stability for your hard earned cash is lucrative. And economic growth thrives on competition. You want a better return on your money you better hope for a robust, secure and vibrant market. Not one “cornered” by a stagnant antiquated status quo draining as much of the froth and discretionary income off the top for itself and itself alone.
You want venture capital you better make sure small business and the middle class are firing on all cylinders. 90% of the wealth concentrated in 1% of the population will dry up the economic engine – it doesn’t trickle down – it gets horded at the top. Yacht sales can not sustain 350 million people.
The “public option” using the bureaucracy of medicare that is already set up and running processing a billion claims a year is the smart, efficient way to go.
Pooling that many people together will incentivise the private sector to stop gouging us – as we lay on our sick beds.
As it stands right now the economic impact of getting sick to the individual is catastrophic and that effects the whole market system because lots of people get sick.
When Bush implored people to go out and spend – well that’s kind of hard to do when you are buried in health care bills, filling and refilling out forms and in foreclosure because you made a typo.
The system is broke and well heavily stacked in the insurance industry’s favor – with no incentive except global economic melt down to fix it.
Oh wait a minute didn’t that just happen….
Paul Burke
Author – Journey Home
We need only say two words…”YOU’RE FIRED!”
when one considers that almost 70% of Americans cannot identify the Pacific Ocean i believe most want a Pubic Option because they believe the government can solve their problem. that the private sector wants to steal public sector workers,because pubic sector workers are so valuable. the public cannot see that it is government and Big Labor Unions that have destroyed this country from Detroit to California. look at the street fighting over stimulus money in Detroit. look at the inept government of Louisiana praying people will keep blaming the inept Bush Administration when in fact we are being run by a bi-partisan Kakistocracy….and we deserve it because the pubic electorate is not up to electing decent politicians with a moral compass, instead they are the graduating greed mongers….you get what you deserve….
I am 70 years old, I can find hardly anyone who supports the current health care bill UNLESS they are under 25,undereducated,lazy or rather have a $1,500.00 set of rims for their car or a huge wide screen tv set than buy insurance. My question is why if 58% of Americans don’t want this bill and 82% are satisfied with their health coverage are the democrats wanting to pass it.