Baucus’s Achievement: The Town Hall and Tea Party Wars Of August
As you know, Max Baucus and the Senate finance committee released their health care bill today, and after all the concessions they made, they were able to gain exactly zero Republican supporters for it.
The most important legacy of all this, however, may be that Dems acquiesced to Republican demands for a delay on the bill this summer in hopes of winning GOP support. That gave reform foes a chance to mobilize the long hot August of tea-partying and town-hall hollering, which may have significantly shifted public opinion and hence may end up having a direct impact on the final bill’s quality. Matthew Yglesias:
In addition to the substantive concessions Baucus made in order to get nothing, it’s worth noting that Baucus made huge procedural concessions in order to get nothing. If he’d just stuck to the schedule, we would have been at this point in the process at a time when Barack Obama’s approval rating was considerably higher. And at the end of the day, politics is largely about politics and winning bipartisan support for proposals has at least as much to do with the popularity of the proposer.
It’s important to add here that Dems agreed to this delay largely because Republicans were insisting that we shouldn’t rush the process, and Dems blinked. The widely-blared GOP message was that Dems were intent on bum-rushing a bill through without GOP support, and that if they only slowed the process down, bipartisan compromise would be attainable.
Result: Baucus asked for more time for the Gang of Six to work its magic, and Harry Reid gave it to them, saying that this request was not “unreasonable.” The resulting delay was used by reform foes — and even by the same Republicans who were dangling the prospect of compromise — to stoke the public’s fears throughout the month of August.
It’s perfectly possible that the resulting shift in public opinion could mean the final bill will be significantly different than it might have been. That, in the end, could end up being the Gang of Six’s true legacy.
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“They were able to gain exactly zero Republican supporters for it.”
Isn’t it a bit early to say this? The bill hasn’t even been marked up yet. I doubt you could get the President to say either that he supports or doesn’t support this one yet. I imagine Gibbs’ response would be to laugh, urge folks to let the legislative process work itself out, and tell us to see what finally gets voted out of the committee before passing judgment.
Well, this post is absolutely right. However, if this ridiculous delay permitted us to see the absolutely ugliest people in America shouting curses and worse at the president, I fail to see how that persuaded people against his reforms. Do mainstream Americans see themselves reflected in these ugly people? Do they identify with them? If they identify more with them than they do with a good president simply because they are white and he is black, then the country is in serious trouble.
fyi, I was not able to access the site for around 1 hr on both Netscape and Chrome browsers. I also rebooted my PC during this period.
JMC is right. August, leading up to 9/12, clearly helped the cause. The only question imho is: to what extent was it planned in advance by Obama, and if he, to what extent Baucus knew and played along.
“Well, this post is absolutely right. However, if this ridiculous delay permitted us to see the absolutely ugliest people in America shouting curses and worse at the president, I fail to see how that persuaded people against his reform”
Aw shoot – you beat me to it.
You think this passes? I’m reading there is some opposition to it by senate democrats. ?
orly, the birther nut and that racist army commander who didn’t think Obam is a legit CIC, got canned today.
U.S. District Court Judge Clay Land today tossed out a complaint by an Army captain fighting deployment to Iraq by questioning the legitimacy of President Barack Obama.
Land also put attorney Orly Taitz, who represents Capt. Connie Rhodes and is a leader in the national “birther” movement, on notice by stating that she could face sanctions if she ever files a similar “frivolous” lawsuit in his court.
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/breaking_news/story/841419.html
Ethan, maybe I’m letting my imagination run away with me, but I was also thinking earlier that maybe Max is in on the rope-a-dope.
They gave them the extra time. They took out the public option. And still they won’t support it. They’ve exposed their flank and now the Dems come back. I think the Public Option lives. Now what I want is the ability for all of us to buy it.
OK,
I was against putting it off, and wanted President Obama to keep the Congress in session, during August, until the bill was passed.
What is done is done, so we must just forget about the spilled milk, and crack open a fresh carton of Health Care Reform Milk, through the reconciliation process, NOW!
The Republicans are trying to run out the clock, because they know that primary season is near, and nothing every gets done during such years.
We have to pass it now. The Republicans want to kill it now, so to hell with them. Drive the reconciliation process bus over them, now.
Then, the next big bill that we must tackle is tighter regulations of all financial institutions, etc.
That is a good place for Democrats to take a stand in the Spring of 2010, a primary year. Put the Republicans on the spot to defend their Robber Baron cronies. The public is clamoring for the “Two Big To Fail” Robber Barons to be reeled in.
That is what we must focus on, like a laser, as soon as a real Health Care Reform bill has been passed.
And the judge is a shrub appointee.
@kathleen: So those many times that Baucus went on record to say that 60 votes for the PO were not there he was lying (playing rope a dope)?
Folks,
Ignore SBJ.
He is a Log Cabin Republican Uncle Tom.
If he does not respect himself, then why should you.
“by stating that she could face sanctions if she ever files a similar “frivolous” lawsuit in his court.”
Hahahahaha!!
I was a staff attorney at a state court of appeals for 3 years and what you find out is that every court has a stable of nuts who constantly file suits, usually handwritten, and motions and all kinds of craziness. That’s Orly Tait. She’ll fool around and get fined eventually. She’s a certifiable mental case.
On the other hand, if they had ignored Republican pleading for delay (regardless of whether that pleading was in good faith or not), there would have been an additional charge by the Republicans that the whole bill was ramrodded through, and that charge would have been looked plausible.
Now it does not and won’t.
oddjob – “Now it does not and won’t.”
That’s just how I see it and have all along.
The pattern is now clear: the imperative to play the political game has won on the right. The longer-term pattern is just as clear: a faction of Congressional Democrats sometimes backed Bush on his initiatives (such as his tax cuts). No one in the Congressional Limbaugh-run GOP will back anything this president does. Not only that; they will assault him, race-bait him and insult him in a continuous reel of populist bile….
Sorry Tena, gotta edit another comment, hope you don’t mind: She’s a certifiable mental case [who doesn't have a U.S. birth certificate].
@sbj — who knows. but deceit is a big part of military strategy. no problem here.
@oddjob — andrew sullivan has got game today.
@everybody — michael steele is the biggest narcissist. he just said (on andrea mitchell) that he and obama are the only adults in the room (re: racism). two black men at the top of the political power structure, etc…
Furthermore, he looked like Alex P. Keaton in his bow tie. Not sure what the message was with that.
Concessions? What concessions? Have you even read the new “America’s Healthy Future Act of 2009″ There’s no concessions in there, except that it makes the “public option” into a state-by-state insurance market.
It’s still a total travesty, and I’m not surprised it can’t get any support. I’m not a Republican by any means, and I would absolutely vote against this bill.
Ethan – LOL!
@kathleen: All’s fair in love, war… and politics, eh? Just try not to lose your integrity in your zeal to pass a public option.
“That gave reform foes a chance to mobilize the long hot August of tea-partying and town-hall hollering.”
I don’t get the logic of this at all. If the bill was in conference in August, wouldn’t the exact same mobilization have happened? Except, I argue, Democrats would be worse off:
http://plainblogaboutpolitics.blogspot.com/2009/09/grading-baucus-so-far-1.html
It seems Sen. Max Baucus has failed on a variety of levels – no Republican support, litle enthusiasm among members of his own party, and provisions not included that the American public support. At least he succeeded in retaining the support of his campaign donors! What a fool our illustrious Senator Baucus can’t see in himself! -Kevo
@SBJ, my zeal is basically confined to commenting here and occasionally dropping Susan and Olympia a line. Haven’t been negotiating in bad faith, losing my cool at any Town Hall meetings or protesting with any hateful signs: there’s an African lion, etc., bury Obamacare with Kennedy.
I’m not too worried about my integrity, but thank you for your concern.
The delay wasn’t necessarily a bad thing. There was lots and lots of “don’t rush it,” and that red herring is gone. There were always going to be town hall uproars, before or after bills got out of committee and passed each body. Perhaps it’s better they happened and yet we STILL got a bill out of the final committee.
@kathleen: I did not think you would endorse lying by a sitting US Senator as a means to pass a public option (even if it IS an established military tactic [Sun Tzu would be proud]). I agree that politics is hardball but I did not think you would support such tactics.
At any rate, Baucus was not lying. He will not support the public option. There are not 60 votes in the Senate for the public option.
lol the big daddy D Rockefeller doesn’t even support this bill but it’s the evil republicans fault.
This site should be called the oppositeline!
up=down
good=bad
dems not supporting their partys bills=evil republicans
hint-the dems have failed miserably on their own and have no on to blame but themselves! I bet they start blaming Acorn next! hehe
I have a question:
Do Private Insurance providers cover abortions, now?
The reason why I ask, is because it is starting to appear as if a Public Option would not. How can they refuse to do so, since the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that a woman has a right to seek an abortion, especially if her life is in danger?
It would appear to me, that refusing to pay for a medical procedure that was required to protect a woman’s life, would make the law unconstitutional, and would end up getting ruled so. That would mean that we would be back to square one, after years of court hearings, and the next time, we might not be in as favorable position to get anything passed.
Since President Obama said that a Public Option would not be paid for with government money, but instead would rely on membership fees, that would make it a privately funded plan, so I see no reason to sacrifice a woman’s right to obtain a life saving medical procedure..
Does anyone really believe that if we prevent all poor women from having access to family planning, and constitutional medical procedures, that the daughters and wives of the rich and powerful will not still get all the birth control, and abortion procedures they desire, only they will get them in Europe, because they can afford them.
We need to stop caving in to the pressure from a bunch of women diminishing Hillbilly Ayatollahs.
Stand our ground. Do not rob poor women of their constitutional rights, while the daughters of the rich and powerful will continue to access the morning after pill, and abortions, in posh Swiss clinics.
Kethleen-
Re: Public Option gets second life-
I hope your analysis is correct.
What the August recess and the tenor of the “town halls” has done is make average Americans (not the astute observers on this blog:-) very weary of it all. If the health care debate and legislative process was a network TV show it would be said to have jumped the shark. “Death Panels” “pulling the plug on grandman” “wearing loaded firearms to Presidential appearances” was entertaining bread and circuses for awhile, but many of our fellow citizens have the attention span of gerbils and have developed a serious case of “health care debate fatigue’…exacerbated by the tenor of the “supposed” conversation. Many folks…perhaps the majority do not enjoy Jerry Springer Show politics. Rank and file employees at my place of business just want it over with.
Now who this “fatigue” benefits I’ll leave to my fellow astute bloggers. I can truly say however that in the past couple of weeks a large number of people have become burnt out. I know…sad for an issue of this magnitude.
“@kathleen: All’s fair in love, war… and politics, eh? Just try not to lose your integrity in your zeal to pass a public option.”
Where does someone who defends Cheney and torture get off talking to anyone about integrity?
This IOKIYAR has gotten really old.
IOKIYAR? Is that some phrase they use in the Dirty South?
sbj – and that’s the best you can do? Come on – you can get lamer than that – I’ve seen you do it.
IOKIYAR = It’s OK If You Are Republican
IOKIYAR was the number 1 operational rule the whole time Rove was running things. Or Cheney was or whoever it was manipulating the media for all they were worth. It’s worn out its welcome.
Now, the right naturally doesn’t believe this, so it will be denied in 3…2…
@sbj — again, you are so sweet to care. I’m just speculating. I don’t know that Baucus lied. Even if he was in on the rope-a-dope (a fantasy), it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t take what he could get. Is rope-a-dope lying, or is it just letting your opponent show their hand and leave themselves in a weakened position?
And if you prefer the Marquess of Queensbury to Sun Tzu, then you shouldn’t have a problem with the formal rebuke to Rep. Wilson’s indiscretion.
This thread is not complete without this:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33420
Greg, what I want to know is what are the repercussions for this? Will Baucus pay any prize for ******** with the caucus? And what is up with Conrad and him wanting the CBO to do what it has previously said it can not: score health reform on a 20 year window? Is there any movement towards taking these guys gavel away come January?
Thanks.
Rhoda – that’s an excellent question.
I’m totally speculating here – I’m betting any repercussions come after the health care reform bill is passed and they might be the kind that never get heard about outside the halls of Congress.
Or not – who knows, really? It’s a great question, as I said.
@kathleen: I care a lot!
If Baucus said that there weren’t 60 votes even though he didn’t know that then that would pretty clearly be “lying.”
I think the Dems were perfectly within their rights to pass a resolution disapproving of Wilson’s outburst. Have I argued otherwise?
The tone of this, like it is important that the right give something to Baucus for concessions (to reason) that have been made. Obamacare is still a terrible idea. What is important is not the give and take, inside baseball. What is important is not passing a terrible bill that taxpayers hate. This (and yes perhaps even some Kennedy loathing) are why I don’t care whether you can take over the healthcare industry as monument to Teddy’s legacy.
The lesson of August for Democrats should have been that it is not just rightwing extremists who think giving the government more of a role in heathcare is a terrible idea.
The Baucus “Chairman’s Mark” is a plain English version of the plan. The Mark is 223 pages, and covers a lot of ground, but seems extremely well written. For those with a serious interest in this topic, it is well worth a read, if for no other reason than that it provides a great deal of background information, and a feel for the scope of the issues being considered.
For many people, the family premium costs will be key. The Mark did not include the nice table the staff put out a few days ago, but I think this snip captures it ..
The credits would be based on the percentage of income the cost of premiums represents, rising from three percent of income for those at 100 percent of poverty to 13 percent of income for those at 300 percent of poverty. Individuals between 300-400 percent of FPL would be eligible for a premium credit based on capping an individual‘s share of the premium at a flat 13 percent of income.
There is also an out of pocket cost cap, of up to 50% of the HSA amounts (i.e. about $6,000/yr max). Some of this is rebated depending on income.
If I understand this correctly, it means that the answer to the “what does affordable mean” question that I asked some days ago is between 3% at FPL and about 19% at 3-4 FPL. FPL is $22,050.
I’m surprised it hasn’t already been mentioned here, but the other impetus for delay and a great reason for Dems to also participate in the GOP handwringing was to get MONEY, lots and lots of money was donated by both sides of reform. As long as the outcome of the bill was uncertain our representatives were getting money hand over fist (Ds and Rs). In any case, I agree with the other commentators here who say that August was going to see significant pushback against a bill passing no matter what so nothing was really changed by having Baucus take til yesterday to get something in writing.
The new trick is called Individual Mandate. Everyone must buy health insurance. Can’t afford it? Govt will pay. Don’t need it, don’t want it, won’t buy it? You’ll be fined. Don’t need Abortion or Mental Health or OBGYN coverage? (Hey, I’m a guy!) You’re stuck with it anyway. Who gets rich? Insurance companies. What happens to Demand for Hospitals and Doctors? Through the roof. What happens to Supply? Nothing. What happens to Prices? Exactly what you should expect: up up up.
I think, Obama is smarter than we give him credit for. They probably knew that this would be the outcome, but politically it works, because when they do ram a bill through – the argument that they did not try to compromise will not fly with most of the public.
Infact, dare I say, the long term effect this might have is to underline clearly for the American people – who is fighting for what.
I learnt during the campaign not to underestimate Obama’s ability to let his opponents hang themselves. In the court of public opinion – this is what Republicans are doing. Have at it!
I don’t think the government does much good at most areas in which it has bureaucrats running something- think of the 53 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities with social security, medicare and medicaid on top of the 12 trillion dollar debt. We can’t afford another boondoggle-the government needs to stay out of additional aspects of healthcare. They need to cut some spending somewhere and could begin by cutting funding of groups like ACORN.
HA! The Dems can’t agree amongst themselves what should or shouldn’t be in the bill, but y’all are blaming its failure on the GOP. Keep your heads in the sand – it’ll be fun watching you squirm after the next election.
So… I guess you think it would have been a much better idea to rush the bill through congress before the public had any idea what was in it, or our Senators and Representatives had even had a chance to read the 1000+ pages!! That may be expedient, but hardly democratic. The truth of the matter is that in August, the American people had the chance to really examine the proposals closely, and found them to be sorely wanting! Blame Sen Baucus if you wish, but this is actually how the Democratic system is intended to work!
Most people in favor of “universal health care” and the “public option” can’t even define what they want. Do you want everyone to be able to see a doctor anytime, anywhere? Do you want everyone to be able to have any kind of surgery, emergency care, immunizations, whatever? How? Doctors, nurses, and surgeons are not your slaves. Think about what you are truly asking and if it can be feasibly achieved. To me it sounds like another Marxist utopian fantasy.
As I’ve felt all along. The pretense of working together to reach a compromise was nothing more than a tactic designed to drag the health care reform issue along as far as possible. There was never any desire on the Republicans’ part to come to any agreement, or support any reform. Any controversy that delays this a single day is considered a win in the R’s camp. The time passed, long ago, for the Democrats to go it alone, including using whichever parliamentary or rules mechanism necessary to get this done, including all the bells and whistles.
Hey, the unconstitutional takeover of the health care industry was never gonna be easy. Our Dear Leader has the auto industry, the banks, the insurance companies, we control every branch of government with huge majorities, and our shock troops at Acorn are doing their part stuffing ballot boxes. If we can just keep people from finding out what’s in the laws we cram down their throats, we’ll be fine. Relax, people. They’re all racists and we know best, right?
Right…?
Maybe Americans don’t like the health care plan because they don’t want to pay more taxes. Maybe they think that the deficit is already too colossal. Or maybe they are racists?
All conservatives in the media and all GOP Senators need to be asked come out strongly against the Individual Mandate provision now – this is the most onerous and unconstitutional part of this “Obamacare” scheme. The are the common thread that in all the various Obamacare and Obamacare lite plans. The force everyone in the country to participate involuntarily and under the government’s term and provide billions in tax revenues.
This is a very dangerous period because Nationalization will still occur even without an overt government run insurance plan like this “public option” provision everyone keeps fixating on – Wyden/Bennett and the Bacus bill are prime examples of this.
Here are the core elements what will be contained in the “health care reform compromise” after the so-called “public option” is in all likelihood dropped:
(a) Federal Regulation aka HEALTH CZAR/DEATH PANELS
(b) Employer/Individual Mandates aka NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE
(c) Government Subsidies aka MIDDLE CLASS MEDICAL WELFARE
With the Federal Government setting the rules, forcing everyone to participate, and is paying the bills for most of the middle class through subsidies how is this anything other than Nationalization?
The essential components that needs to be targeted now need to be focused on are the Individual and Employer Mandates. These Mandates are the glue that holds Obamacare together – without them the whole plan falls apart. These Mandates force everyone in the country into insurance plans that are designed by the Federal Government thus giving them control over everyone’s choices. Mandates also fund the whole plan since they force young and healthy citizens to buy expensive policies that really don’t need and won’t likely use and employers to pay huge taxes. Finally, the Mandates are the stick that keeps the insurance industry on board with the scheme since they give them millions and millions of new customers – it is basically another big industry bailout (big Health Insurance companies are in great financial distress since they lost heavily in last year’s market collapse and have a disproportionate number of aging “babyboomer” customers who are getting older and sicker thus more costly – 80 million of their 135 million customers are between the ages of 50-65 years old).
Obamacare is a corrupt barging that benefits big government, powerful Washington politicians, big union, and big companies/industry at the expense (once again) of the taxpayer, small business, the elderly, and the young. All American should be opposed to this corruption!
Senators and Represenatives need to be forced to go on record as not only opposing the “government options” but these Employer/Individual Mandates too before they fall into the trap of thinking they are acceptable and not government run health care. Mandates to buy private insurance sound like a “free market” solution and “individual responsibility” but in this context they are not – they are simply a front for a government run system. Many can be easily fooled by this faux “private” front (Mitt Romney was)!
Obamacare can survive the loss of a public option but it cant survive without individual mandates!
I’m weary of the rush to pass massive, life altering legislation for any reason, much less political points.
We saw the rush to push through these bills starting with Bush and the TARP bill that just had to go through lest our entire civilization crumble within a week.
The health bills that they are working on now is not a “need” and in what we have read on the various bills that they are working on is based on a foundation of lies, half truths and fiction……Any bill that gets passed must be grounded in hard data and fact, whether it be a huge burden on the American taxpayer or not, we deserve to know exactly what we are getting into.
To Hell with political points for Republicans or Democrats, be clear, concise and honest with us and we can all go from there.
“Drider | September 17th, 2009 at 09:57 am
I’m weary of the rush to pass massive, life altering legislation for any reason, much less political points.”
What rush? This has been an issue for years. Most of Congress is not new to any of these issues. If they are, then they have been asleep at the wheel for their tenure!
Supporting a non-public option is like supporting the insurance fat-rats, or those industry kick-backs to continue. Anything in-between is just plan naive!
If the committee can’t come together and tear Baucus plan apart… we are in deep kimshee! My stomache turned looking at all those penalties! “Show me your papers comrade!”
A republican friend of mine, fired-up and “so-called” speaking out, predicts there will be a national Katrina riot soon. I asked him how on earth can they arm the fat a@@es laying on the beaches or $200k yachts…
Ed, health reform is an issue, no more or no less than an issue.It is not a “need”.
You seem worried about penalties of the Baucus plan and I’m right there with you on that.We still haven’t seen a plan that is viable and based on true, hard data by anyone as far as cost and effect of a public option plan.If we we’re to go ahead with a public potion plan, wouldn’t you want specific and verifiable details on the cost and effect of such a massive plan?
When I say rushing a plan through, there are two or three that are being worked on now, you and I do not know the details nor do most of the politicians who are going to vote on them, so once “a” plan is settled on then trot it out so everyone has a chance to critic it and go from there.
As far as large assed people sitting on million dollar yachts goes and arming them?
I imagine they have special force type mercs at their bidding but what does that have to do with anything?
Sheesh…this is the saddest, most pathetic bunch of posts I have ever read.
Who cares what Republicans think? There is literally no barrier whatsoever for the Democrats to pass this bill, or any other bill, now, or yesterday, or whenever. The Republicans sunk this thing? Keep dreaming. Next you’ll say Robert Bork was behind the failure, or Regan, or Bush.
Obama sunk this think like a rock. He has been wishy washy from day one. He was called a liar from the peanut gallery because he is a liar – he contradicts himself each and every day on what will be in the Health Care reform bill. He has provided exactly zero leadership in creating it.
He views his job as salesman – let the house and senate write whatever they want, and he’ll sell it to the American people. That has been, and continues to be, a massive failure in leadership on his part.
It’s failing miserably because Obama (and Reid and Pelosi)are failing miserably as leaders. There are no other excsuses.