The Morning Plum
* Must read: E.J. Dionne says Obama’s “non-ideological pragmatism” will lead him to embrace a third way in Afghanistan that nobody likes.
* David Obey throws down the gauntlet in an interview with ABC News, demands a “war surtax” for any Afghan escalation.
* Obama eyeing possible Afghanistan announcement next week, George Stephanopoulos reports (per The Note).
* Chuck Schumer, prepping for the final push to fellow Dem Senators, starts framing the case for the public plan with opt-out: It’s an option; don’t take that choice away from those who want it.
* Dick Durbin says the Dem leadership is open to a “trigger” compromise.”
* Sam Stein: Joe Lieberman’s description of the health care bill is “deeply cynical.”
* The number of reasons Lieberman has advanced for opposing the public option is up to half a dozen and counting.
* Susan Collins, being wooed by Dems, says she still wants to vote for a health care bill “very much,” but first wants it “rewritten.” Okay, but what changes exactly would win her support? Unclear.
* John McCain reiterates firm opposition to a Senate bill that doesn’t exist.
* Understatement of the day, from Ross Douthat: Sarah Palin is unlikely to become “the voice of an intellectually vigorous conservatism.” It’s been interesting to watch conservative writers dance around the question of Palin’s qualifications, hasn’t it?
* And here’s the shocker of the day (H/T Mike Allen): Palin is still seething with resentment at Katie Couric.
What else is happening?
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For those who, like myself, consider Rupert Murdoch to be perhaps the single most destructive and pathologically motivated individual on the present horizon, then we ought to keep an eye on his attempts to control information and news. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/23/AR2009112300119.html?nav=hcmodule
Not only is Obey calling for revenue (war surtax) for escalation in Afghanistan but Lieberman also said yesterday that if we sent more troops we ought to pay for it. Not only does this put President Obama in a bind, but IMO it also puts Republicans in a bind.
They’ve been shouting about deficits, quite ironically, since Obama took office, while recently shouting about troop increases. Interesting development IMHO.
Dionne gets to the other crux in Afghanistan as well.
“One of these is the weariness over a truth that foreign policy analyst Andrew Bacevich put more plainly than most: “that permanent war has become the de facto policy of the United States.” Americans have always been willing to battle terrorists. What they did not count on — and were not led to expect when the Bush administration committed troops to Afghanistan and then to Iraq — were two long, violent, indefinite occupations costing thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars.”
@Bernie
I am hoping and praying that he goes through with it. There is no other single way to deplete NewsCorps influence than to pull it off google and make it exclusive to Bing.
I’m wondering how much revenue Google gets from NewsCorp hits. If it’s as small a revenue generator as they claim, it would be incredibly shrewd (not to mention harsh) for Google to just flat out dump them now. Not only does it pull NewsCorp off the google index and hurting it’s influence, but it also screws over the deal itself. Why would MS pay NewsCorp to be exclusive when NewsCorp really doesn’t have a choice who to host on anyways?
I don’t always agree with Krugman, but I think he’s got this right and the President had it right earlier in the year. Pressure to bring down the deficit may be curtailing job creation and will probably prolong the recession.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/opinion/23krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion
Instead of the two gals, the dems can start wooing voinovich and luger. imo, they are better candidates for flipping since they don’t care to run for office anymore.
Ron Paul on CNBC just now said he’s not likely to vote for the final bill that includes his Fed Audit amendment. His amendment is part of a financial regulatory bill which he is VERY much against.
@BBQ- These aren’t issues which I understand well at all (I did read through some of the TechCrunch links) and I’ll defer to your more informed take on them.
But on the other hand, Murdoch’s record demonstrates that he’s often ahead of the curve and so is due respect. It seems to me that a critical point is coming up for his strategies and that if he ends up standing alone (other key media elements like NYT don’t play along) then he’s going to be weakened. For myself, I’m trying to keep an eye on that issue.
amk, Are you sure about Lugar on that point? Has he announced that he won’t run for reelection (when’s his term up anyway, 2012?)? I agree that he may be attainable, being a personal friend of the President and being, you know, not insane, but generally speaking he’s much more conservative than Voinovich.
…and yet Durbin (Reid too) proceeds to raise money and build e mail lists off the Public Option he knows damn good and well he’s going to ditch – shameless
Carl Levin also has a good take on Afghanistan as well as financial regulations.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aI4IdHYuAl94
hhg – I remember reading that lugar wasn’t interested in another term (sorry, I can’t provide links). As for his conservatism, what price conservadems bound by their insurance industry and other corporate ties ?
From book tour to Presidential campaigns, no it’s not SP, but the Huckster, complete with podium.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2009/11/23/from_book_tour_to_presidential_campaign.html
Robert Kuttner agrees with me that Maria Cantwell is both well informed and persuasive. If you saw her Saturday she really know health care reform and also quite a bit about financial regulations.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/dont-mess-with-maria_b_367118.html
“Kill it and start over (oh, and make sure you and your buddies send an avalanche of mail to your representatives, too)”
Bill Kristol’s helpful advice this morning… http://www.weeklystandard.com/Weblogs/TWSFP/TWSFPView.asp#14127
amk, Fair enough, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he wasn’t retiring. And maybe you’re right. He doesn’t have the direct conflict of interest offered by Lieberman or Bayh, nor the shameless corporate backing of Ben Nelson. But by that logic, Judd Gregg should be in reach too. Sure, hes not that moderate, but he’s never been bought and paid for, and indeed, as one of my senators, I’ve always had respect for him, well until recently.
Maybe he’s worth watching- but remember, unlike Voinovich, he did filibuster against proceeding to debate, whereas Voinovich did not attend the vote. Thats why I’m not convinced any Republican besides Voinovich is even close to be worth watching.
: Sarah Palin is unlikely to become “the voice of an intellectually vigorous conservatism.”
What intellectually vigorous conservatism might he be referring to? And why would they participate in a Republican primary anyway?
“Rarely is so much made about so little.”
Robert Reich on This Week on Sunday in regards to Sarah Palin’s book.
So appropriate.
Sarah, keeping up to date on the very latest middle east analyses…
“The former Alaska governor and 2008 GOP vice presidential candidate told Billy Graham about how she came to faith in God as a girl in Bible camp.
She quizzed him on the presidents he’s known and wanted his take on what the Bible says about Israel, Iran and Iraq, Franklin Graham reported.” http://www.mcclatchydc.com/256/story/79317.html (h/t TPM)
Count me as uncaring or lacking in ambition, but I (like Nate) was never in the camp of considering the PO the end-all-be-all of what health care reform should be. Yes, we need to expand the number of options for insurance and having an insurance option that is not run by a profit driven entity is a definite plus… however, even under the House bill the number of people covered is not enough to realign the way the insurance market works.
Instead, I find myself more focused on putting in place systems that would bring down costs and provide pricing transparency, we also need to realign incentives away from volume health care and extending life no matter what the cost (in dollars or quality) and move towards improving outcomes. The Senate bill does this, and I’m willing to trade away the immediacy of the PO because I believe these other things to be more influential later and because the PO will need to be adjusted almost as soon as it hits the ground anyway. Let’s get the language in place and a bill made and then tweak the timing, but we need to begin to remold the industry that is taking up 1/6th of our economy and yet continues to grow.
hhd – My point about lugar was visa a vis those two maine women. All the dems wooing seem to have gone to their heads.
Whatever may be said about repubs, their party members falls in line at the end. Dems are the proverbial cats, hard to herd.
I keep wondering to myself how long this status quo of the MSM reporting what Republicans say as unquestionable truth will last, and then I hear news about Palin’s latest Facebook update… I was one of the first 11,000 people to sign up for the site, no one gives me the time of day when I post about serious issues with actual policy prescriptions included. But of course, I’m not a half-term governor preaching values my own children don’t follow or believe in, I’ll have to get to work on that soon before the media starts doing real reporting again.
Whatever may be said about repubs, their party members falls in line at the end. Dems are the proverbial cats, hard to herd.
It’s easy to make everyone fall in line when your party advocates a minority viewpoint and represents a minority of the country.
mike from Arlington: the fella from Gin & Tacos nailed it for me last week:
“Millions of copies will be sold of a book written by someone who can’t write, intended for an audience that doesn’t read, about the thoughts of a person who doesn’t think. God is dead”
My Question Of The Day.
Can BullWinker see Russia from her Book Promotion Bus?
I am worried that while QP(Quitter Palin), is off promoting her book: “The Days Of Whines and Roguery”, Boris and Natashia may have sneaked into Alaska.
Jonathan Cohn has a pretty good take on the HCR debate going forward and how we should, while pushing for the best bill, still accept a good bill.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/should-we-laugh-cry-both
I think this story on the leaked WV coal industry memo got mentioned yesterday? (business groups going after Obama on medical reform to weaken him before the real problem legislation re energy) but I wanted to link it for Matt Yglesias’ comment in the final graph… http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/coal-groups-want-to-block-health-reform-to-kill-clean-energy.php
oj – dems weren’t sheep when they were in minority either.
Reg palin – of the unlettered, (elected/chosen) by the unlettered and for the unlettered. (you can replace unlettered with racists)
Nice Clarice.
I’m sure the book reads like a Jerry Springer episode.
@Paul…”we also need to realign incentives away from volume health care and extending life no matter what the cost (in dollars or quality”
YES! YES! YES! But good luck. If you watched 60 minutes last night you saw a segment pointing out the 50 BILLION a year spent on the last two months of life. Outrages like an 85 year old woman with a failing heart and liver still having 25 !!! specialists seeing her and forwarding their bills to Medicare..including a PAP SMEAR!!! On a dying 85 year old woman. Nobody in the family signed off on any of this…nor did the woman herself…
As the physician who was interviewed pointed out we are the ONLY industrialized country with a health care system this screwed up! Doctors want procedures..hospitals want patients..and patients want the latest technology right up to their final breath…including for example a pacemaker inserted in a 93 year old man in failing health!
There is NO RATIONAL discussion about this or any form of evidence based medical practices because the REPUBLICANS HAVE BECOME IRRATIONAL DEMAGOGUES..out only for political advantage.
So when we talk about SCIENTIFIC evidenced based medicine..Sarah Palin talks about “death panels”.
When we try to examine end of life issues Grandpa Grassley talks about “pulling the plug on Grandma”
The republicans are the worst thing that has happened to this country since the Civil War. They have no consciense at all and a pox upon all their houses!!!!
dems weren’t sheep when they were in minority either
True. The GOP senators were sheep who dutifully shut up and did whatever the White House wanted them to, even to the point of conducting their internal affairs as the White House directed them, which is unheard of.
Steve Benen on an excuse-a month joe, the frigging liarberman
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_11/021119.php
oj – For once, I wish the dems were sheep. While I can understand philosophical or even ideological doop, this shilling for corporates in HCR debate is unpardonable.
The problems with health care in the US first manifested themselves to me when, about a decade ago, I watched my uncle and grandmother pass away. One with lung cancer (lifetime smoker) the other from asbestos related cancer, and both of them spent the last 6 months in and out of care and really just husks of their former selves.
My uncle had it especially bad, he did chemo and was in such bad shape afterwards that a planned operation was put on hold for 3 months… which he spent in a bathtub of ice to keep the fever down, and eventually succumbed to anyway. Needless to say my dad’s entire family drew up end of life plans in their wills, specifying that quality of life was more important than extending it.
I would hope no one else needs to go through that to come to the realization that something needs to be done about health care, but in the current political climate I don’t know if that is possible.
A good dkos diary how the goopers voted against safety in chemical plants.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/23/807227/-Action-UPDATE:-Chemical-plant-security-bill-passes.-GOP-says-NO!!!
Greg, what’s the point in commenting if the comments become mincemeat for your server ?
amk — still having tech issues? apologies. anyone else?
“I would hope no one else needs to go through that to come to the realization that something needs to be done about health care, but in the current political climate I don’t know if that is possible.”
EXACTLY Paul. Sarah Palin I can almost forgive because she is simply ignorant…but Senators like Lieberman and Bayh who get millions…or should I say whose wives get millions from the insurance companies are simply the lowest form of life and traitors to our nation.
65 BILLION a month in Afghanistan..and rising if the Pres agrees to the troop increase…over a trillion and counting in Iraq…YET WE CAN’T AFFORD HEALTHCARE!!!
all, new post:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/do-moderate-dem-senators-recognize-urgency-of-need-for-reform/
My tech people tell me they expect the problem to be resolved today. Apologies again, and thx for your patience.
Greg, will the fact that even your posts are being gobbled up make your techies worried finally ?
The techies are worried, amk. they’re working on it.
I’m seeing my posts. Are you not seeing them?
…and let’s pick this up in the new thread?
Ruk,
Unbelievable how you completely missed the point of that 60 minutes segment, which was that costs are astronomical for GOVERNMENT health care because everyone can and will spend unlimited amounts as long as “someone else” is paying the bill, even for “care” of dubious value.
That’s what conservatives have been saying forever. The story’s main subject said he agrees people paying for private insurance should be able to spend whatever they want, but in government health care there is a fundamental problem caused by the effectively infinite demand meeting payment by others. I’ve made exactly the same point on this site more than once, and you libs act outraged.
As for your Palin bashing and “death panels,” you again entirely miss the point. There is a fundamental difference between the governement stepping in as the payor/provider and making the decisions versus decision making by private actors. It is the liberal welfare state that you support that inevitably gives us the current situation of “care” that meets no evidence-based, scientific criteria for merit, or rationing by the government, whether or not you call it evidence-based medicine.
Just look at the outcry over the recent mammography recommendations. Guess what, that is evidence-based medicine. That is what the USPSTF does — evidence-based evaluation of evaluation of available preventive services.
“but Senators like Lieberman and Bayh who get millions…or should I say whose wives get millions from the insurance companies are simply the lowest form of life and traitors to our nation”
Btw, Ruk, nice hypocrisy. Just the other day you were bemoaning “traitor” as a right wing smear to which you would never stoop.
Independent Joe Liebermann AND Democrat Evan Bayh BOTH have wives that DO make big bucks from the corporate-medical-industry.
BOTH Liebermann AND Bayh have been pushing for policies that directly enrich their wives corporate-medical-industry interests and thus enrich themselves.
It’s the same kind of skeezy shenanigans that Republican McCain was pulling with his wife: Pushing policies which enrich his family and then absurdly claiming that he wasn’t being enriched even while his wife was being enriched by his corrupt legal shenanigans.
It was always absurd but the corporate-media loved Republican McCain and never could find the ink to tell the truth.